Lichdom, Vaarsuvius and the ring of Xykon *SOD Spoilers*

[Kranden]

After receiving my copy of SOD and reading it today I realized something that has not been brought up before.

Xykons Ring, the ring that would protect him against positive energy which is why he had no fear of Redcloaks brother being able to hurt him in any way.

When Xykon was first defeated V chose the Ring pried off the fingers of Xykon
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0130.html
Considering V is the one who Identifies magic items there are two possibilities here
1. He lied when he said it was a ring of Wizardry(Why would a mostly good aligned party have any use for a ring that protected against positive energy?
2. He was not able to identify what the magic item could do at this point and V would never openly admit failure. Also If it was worn by Xykon itself it most likely had some importance even if V was not sure what it really was.

And don't just say its an item. Most of the items involved with Xykons throne room have played parts in the storyline. The ring of jumping, The bag of tricks, and even the Bag of holding.

Also consider the fact that Roy's sword at the time was infused with positive energy and never hit him.

Now before you say "How do you know its the same ring?" Consider this. During Xykon's attack on the Azurite throne room he was constantly attacked by Smite Evil(a positive energy attack that nearly destroyed him) Obviously he no longer has the ring as he would have brought it with him when he attacked a city full of Paladins.

Now for the sake of argument lets say V does intend to become a Lich (or a Baelnorn) It would be dangerous to do so with 2 Paladins and a Cleric on the ship who could smite evil and Turn Undead unless.... You had a ring that protected you against positive energy. V is the type who plans ahead, long and hard. His actions are not based on short term thinking but that of the long term plan.

[Greep]

Might wanna change the title ;) it's kinda spoilers as is.

[Prowl]

It's an entertaining theory, problem is lizard-V tells the black dragon, speaking in lizard, that V has a Ring of Wizardry. There's really no good reason for V to say that unless it was actually just that.

[Haruki-kun]

I'm fairly certain V is Chaotic Neutral, I don't think s/he lied to the party like that... But it's a pretty good theory.

[FoE]

Or, and this is just a crazy thought, Xykon had more than one ring.

DUN DUN DUNNNNNNN!

[Greep]

OOOOOOOOOO ooooooooooo oooooooooooooooo! I totally know why this can't work.

The ring would definately show up as vaarsuvius being evil with miko's detect evil just like xykons crown did. I mean freaking lich ring ;)

[Kranden]

OOOOOOOOOO ooooooooooo oooooooooooooooo! I totally know why this can't work.

The ring would definately show up as vaarsuvius being evil with miko's detect evil just like xykons crown did. I mean freaking lich ring ;)

Wouldn't detect evil be considered a positive energy? I mean it is a Holy Paladin skill after all.

[Chronos]

We have more than just Vaarsuvius' word that it's a Ring of Wizardry. Since that point, Vaarsuvius has been consistently shown as having twice as many 3rd-level spells as e ought to have, which is what a Ring of Wizardry does. It's conceivable, I suppose, that it does that and also protects against positive energy, but it's a lot simpler to assume that they're two separate rings. The fact that the party didn't loot it, and that Xykon apparently no longer has it, can be easily explained by the fact that both groups were rather in a hurry to leave the dungeon, and couldn't take everything with them that they'd have liked.

[Greep]

Wouldn't detect evil be considered a positive energy? I mean it is a Holy Paladin skill after all.

True, but it would've acted more like belkar's lead shield in that case.

[Finwe]

Who says that Xykon was necessarily wearing that ring when he was defeated? He could very easily have lost it, or placed it in another room, or something else entirely.

[Kranden]

True, but it would've acted more like belkar's lead shield in that case.

Yes but V would have no reason to wear the ring at this point as it would do him no benefit and the ring would shield itself from detection


Who says that Xykon was necessarily wearing that ring when he was defeated? He could very easily have lost it, or placed it in another room, or something else entirely.

Xykon loves treasure, besides the fact that the dungeon is full of it and he doesn't exactly like paying his employees, also he murdered a powerful mage for a crown that had no other property than "Badass" I don't think he would just lose a powerful item like that.

[Finwe]

Xykon loves treasure, besides the fact that the dungeon is full of it and he doesn't exactly like paying his employees, also he murdered a powerful mage for a crown that had no other property than "Badass" I don't think he would just lose a powerful item like that.

You're talking about the guy who can't remember the name of the person who (sort of) killed him. Losing one ring in a gigantic dungeon filled with other treasures would hardly be surprising. Also, as I said before, it's just as plausible that he simply wasn't wearing the ring, and had placed it elsewhere.

[Kranden]

You're talking about the guy who can't remember the name of the person who (sort of) killed him. Losing one ring in a gigantic dungeon filled with other treasures would hardly be surprising. Also, as I said before, it's just as plausible that he simply wasn't wearing the ring, and had placed it elsewhere.

Yea but those are just organ filled meat bags, treasure is forever.

[AKA_Bait]

Who says that Xykon was necessarily wearing that ring when he was defeated? He could very easily have lost it, or placed it in another room, or something else entirely.

It might be with his keys.


You're talking about the guy who can't remember the name of the person who (sort of) killed him. Losing one ring in a gigantic dungeon filled with other treasures would hardly be surprising. Also, as I said before, it's just as plausible that he simply wasn't wearing the ring, and had placed it elsewhere.

It's also possible that Xykon never had such a ring. The only reason we *know* he has one is because he tells Redcloak that when he is trying to break his spirit at the end of SoD. Just because Xykon said it, doesn't mean it's true.

Also, if V did have the ring (lets say he pocketed it when no one was looking and it never made it to the communal treasure pile, leaving V to also take the ring of wizardy we know he has from the number of third level spells he uses) this recent set of strips would probably need to be the first time he's worn it. I'm not going to go back and check, but I'm pretty darn sure that V has gotten healed bettween the end of the first arc and now. A ring that prevented positive energy from effecting him, although good for a lich, would prevent a living creature from being magically healed.

[Shadic]

Vaarsuvius couldn't have been evil prior to that point, because V was affected by Unholy Blight. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0011.html)

[Dr. Cthulwho]

Xykon loves treasure, besides the fact that the dungeon is full of it and he doesn't exactly like paying his employees, also he murdered a powerful mage for a crown that had no other property than "Badass" I don't think he would just lose a powerful item like that.

Well, there is the "Cloister" headband, which he doesn't always wear.

[FrankNorman]

Xykon couldn't have taken anything with him when he left Dorukan's castle - because he was disembodied at the time - he was being carried by Redcloak inside the little disc.
And Redcloak didn't stop to collect anything - he just ran.

[factotum]

Xykon couldn't have taken anything with him when he left Dorukan's castle - because he was disembodied at the time - he was being carried by Redcloak inside the little disc.
And Redcloak didn't stop to collect anything - he just ran.

Except, as pointed out in the post right before you made this one, he definitely managed to take Dorukan's headband with him from the dungeon, because he used it to cast Cloister on Azure City...

[Fitzclowningham]

Kind of OT, but in the SRD, the listing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/disruptingWeapon.htm) for Disrupting Weapon, which is apparently the spell Durkon cast on Roy's sword, says:


This spell makes a melee weapon deadly to undead. Any undead creature with HD equal to or less than your caster level must succeed on a Will save or be destroyed utterly if struck in combat with this weapon. Spell resistance does not apply against the destruction effect.

Since we know Durkon was at least 6 levels lower than Xykon at that point, there was no danger of his being affected by the attack. By the same token, I wonder where Right-Eye would have been able to find a high enough level weapon himself.

[David Argall]

Xykon couldn't have taken anything with him when he left Dorukan's castle - because he was disembodied at the time - he was being carried by Redcloak inside the little disc.
And Redcloak didn't stop to collect anything - he just ran.

One can argue other methods, but it seems Redcloak paused to get the umbrella for MitD.

However, it seems that a recurring villain knows to keep a suitcase of plot-useful items ready to grab as he flees when the heros are closing in.

[Nerdanel]

The ring was identified by V as a ring of wizardry. V picked it for himself. As a living elf he would not have needed protection from positive energy.

Xykon's crown was unidentified. Roy pre-empted it from the loot pile. The crown turned out to radiate evil. Its further properties are unknown.

I therefore think the OOTS wrongly assumed Xykon's crown was a mundane vanity piece and didn't bother to check for magical auras. Or it didn't have a magical aura because it was a major artifact. In any case, the crown can explain the mystery of the vanishing positive energy resistance. I think Xykon didn't trust Redcloak enough to reveal something that is a crucial weak point, and something a cleric is best primed to exploit.

[Greep]

The ring was identified by V as a ring of wizardry. V picked it for himself. As a living elf he would not have needed protection from positive energy.

Xykon's crown was unidentified. Roy pre-empted it from the loot pile. The crown turned out to radiate evil. Its further properties are unknown.

I therefore think the OOTS wrongly assumed Xykon's crown was a mundane vanity piece and didn't bother to check for magical auras. Or it didn't have a magical aura because it was a major artifact. In any case, the crown can explain the mystery of the vanishing positive energy resistance. I think Xykon didn't trust Redcloak enough to reveal something that is a crucial weak point, and something a cleric is best primed to exploit.

Hmm.. that actually is weird that the crown was unidentified, especially considering Roy believed it was powerful before Xykon tells him he just thinks it looks badass. And of course Xykon's most likely lying :D

[hamishspence]

SOD covers crown in more detail, but not whether is magic or not. Interestingly Vile Darkness has precedent for really really evil acts leaving trace marks on their surroundings. Which, in this case, would be the crown.

[Sethis]

In this Thread: People who don't understand what positive energy is.

Positive energy is a force which heals living creatures and hurts undead. The only sources of positive energy are:


Healing-based Spells
Turn Undead
Positive Energy Plane


Smite Undead is just an attack that does extra damage to evil. The only thing Positive Energy Protection works against is the "damage" undead take from healing spells or the Positive Energy Plane. Turn Undead has it's own counters.

It doesn't stop smites, or Detect Evil. Undetectable Alignment stops Detect Evil, but the only thing that stops smites is staying out of meele.

[FrankNorman]

Except, as pointed out in the post right before you made this one, he definitely managed to take Dorukan's headband with him from the dungeon, because he used it to cast Cloister on Azure City...

I'm aware of that... and I regard it as a Plot Hole.

Xykon has the headband at Azure City because the Snarl passed it to him through a rift in the continuity of the story. :smallsmile:

[Linkavitch]

Or, and this is just a crazy thought, Xykon had more than one ring.

DUN DUN DUNNNNNNN!

My first thought as well.

[Kranden]

I'm aware of that... and I regard it as a Plot Hole.

Xykon has the headband at Azure City because the Snarl passed it to him through a rift in the continuity of the story. :smallsmile:

Its possible he left it in his second base (the Hobbo fort)

Or He just liked to make Redcloak carry his crap for him (which is a funny idea and he did have that Umbrella :P)

[Kami2awa]

Its possible he left it in his second base (the Hobbo fort)

Or He just liked to make Redcloak carry his crap for him (which is a funny idea and he did have that Umbrella :P)

Quite possibly he keeps his stuff in a Bag of Holding or Secret Chest, and Redcloak had instructions to grab it on the way out.

[Laurentio II]

About Xykon circlet, umbrella and else, in FAQs the Giant said: "A: Between panels, the character moved/cast a spell/had a spell cast on him/etc. There are limited panels in each strip, and I give priority to panels that tell jokes first, then advance the plot, and then, only if I have extra room, do I show transitional panels that are not strictly necessary. Use your imagination when it comes to exactly how it happened."
About the title theory: I don't buy it. Just not. It serves only to fuel another bizarre theory (Vaarsuvius becoming and Undead) that I found out of character and heavily negated by readers more informed of D&D rules.
More, this hypothetically act should be done for reasons not compatible with the character we actually know (lying and stealing his teammates for vanity or greedness).