Intimidation or true fall?

[SandroTheMaster]

This is not an "V's Alignment Thread", it is about strip 597 where V quite literally threats to make Elan "disapear". Through it is clear that V is slipping since he can't bother anymore to look nice to his peers (being neutral in a fleet aparently composed of only Good (and Evil) characters doesn't help any), I'm quetioning if Strip 597 really marks his fall, or if she just tried to intimidate Elan into stopping to attempt damaging accusations. Apparently he got Elan confused and this was good enough for her.

Any thoughts?

[Theodoriph]

Threatening someone does not a fall mark.

Now if V had killed Elan, that'd be a different story. But just being short-tempered with him doesn't contstitute a fall...though it may mean he's almost there (if you believe that V will fall).

[Laurentio II]

Threatening someone does not a fall mark.

Now if V had killed Elan, that'd be a different story. But just being short-tempered with him doesn't contstitute a fall...though it may mean he's almost there (if you believe that V will fall).
I don't count Vaarsuvius spoke to be a threat as a full hearted one. It would had been very easy for Vaarsuvius to tell "Elan, if you speak I'll kill you. Period". Leaving the meaning obscured means that he was not really determinated to follow it.

[FujinAkari]

Why are so many people surprised by this? Its not like V has never threatened anyone before... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html)

[dps]

It's not a question of either/or. One act or even multiple acts don't necessarily change one's alignment.

[Thant]

Why, I'm quite surprised that V man didn't magic-missled Elan already in 597 (something like a warning shot), considering his current mental state and all the problems that Elan's testimony to Hinjo will make. Probability of the future conflict in nxt 10 strips (with Durkon popping in) between the two? at least 81% .

[Learnedguy]

That's what a natural one on your intimidate roll looks like.

[AKA_Bait]

Why, I'm quite surprised that V man didn't magic-missled Elan already in 597 (something like a warning shot), considering his current mental state and all the problems that Elan's testimony to Hinjo will make. Probability of the future conflict in nxt 10 strips (with Durkon popping in) between the two? at least 81% .

I think less. I don't think that V really cares what Hinjo does. He's simply not important enough.

V didn't magic missle him, or explain in baby talk, the threat because V really doesn't want to hurt Elan and probably wouldn't follow through with the threat regardless of what Elan does.

[Dubiela]

I don't think V will hurt Elan, 'cause it is just pointless to do such a thing.

English is not my 1st language, but I found weird the phrase of V:

"Do as you wish, though I find it odd that one who just witnessed the haste that I will remove that which distracts me from my crucial research would risk becoming just such a distraction one's self"

Is not I removed??

[B. Dandelion]

I don't think V will hurt Elan, 'cause it is just pointless to do such a thing.

English is not my 1st language, but I found weird the phrase of V:

"Do as you wish, though I find it odd that one who just witnessed the haste that I will remove that which distracts me from my crucial research would risk becoming just such a distraction one's self"

Is not I removed??
V's grammar is correct, but somewhat convoluted. The past-tense verb in the sentence is "witnessed." Her threat works with the expectation that Elan will assume what he had just seen was something that could happen again.

As to the OP, I think she's bluffing for now. But the situation has plenty of room left to deteriorate. Hinjo won't be happy about this, V's actions seriously undermine his moral authority and there were already people willing to conclude he had taken a hand in his uncle's death.

[Zordrath]

I don't count Vaarsuvius spoke to be a threat as a full hearted one. It would had been very easy for Vaarsuvius to tell "Elan, if you speak I'll kill you. Period". Leaving the meaning obscured means that he was not really determinated to follow it.
Oh really? Easy for V to phrase something in a short, easily understandable manner? :smalltongue:

[Vizen]

Why are so many people surprised by this? Its not like V has never threatened anyone before... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html)

I'm sure V just had a good bit of trancing then, compared to now.

I think it was just an intimidation. If V really wanted to kill Elan, the opportunity to was there.

[mikeejimbo]

I think V really doesn't want to kill Elan, although that might be more because of his respect for Haley than his friendship with Elan.

[Jorrath_Zek]

Definately an Intimidation Check, and V rolled a 1

[recluso]

Given that V talks about removing distractions and not clearly "try tell Hinjo and you get disintegrated", one can interprete the whole thing as a excessively over the top way of asking to be left alone (=not to be distracted by Elan himself = stop moralizing in the 596/597 way).

Nervous breakdown. Childish Temper Tantrum.

Something that will make a parent look annoyed / confused and worrying about the amount of rest the child had.
The parent however does not take the unspoken "I might kill you" threat serious.

[Eric]

Definately an Intimidation Check, and V rolled a 1

So you say you saw a dice roll???

[Doopliss]

We saw how well it worked on Elan.

[Jorrath_Zek]

So you say you saw a dice roll???

Looked like an instant failure since Elan didn't even have to recognize what was happening and roll for a save... Yea, I'd say a one.

[Eric]

Looked like an instant failure since Elan didn't even have to recognize what was happening and roll for a save... Yea, I'd say a one.

So no, you didn't.

Not definitely a 1 then.

Could be just Elan didn't notice, just like, while Wiley Coyote doesn't spot it, the gravity doesn't work (in the Toon RPG, you could run in thin air if you failed your Smarts check).

[Dreamthiev]

Been awhile since I read over the skills section, so I might be wrong. But I think when a PC is intimidated they still get to decide how they react. So V could maybe have succeeded the intimidate check.

[Setra]

I forgot who said this but it was something along the lines of..

"It was obviously intimidation.

The true question is what he meant to back it up with... a Bluff, or a Spell?"

Either way, I presume he didn't really want to hurt Elan. Normally Elan's stupidity is enough to annoy V further, and V could have easily lost hir temper and done something... but s/he didn't.

Maybe it's just a case of like of a character blinding me though, V is my favorite character. So hopefully I'm not like those people who say things along the lines of

"Belkar is Chaotic Neutral with Evil Tendencies" or "Thog is Neutral because he isn't smart enough to be Evil"

[Spiky]

Definately an Intimidation Check, and V rolled a 1

+1

Or possibly almost any other roll, as V's stats other than Int are like....a 5.

[FujinAkari]

Been awhile since I read over the skills section, so I might be wrong. But I think when a PC is intimidated they still get to decide how they react.

That rule only applies to when an NPC would attempt to intimidate a PC. There is absolutely nothing in the skill section that covers one PC trying to intimidate another.

It is a fairly common house rule that extends the rule to all PC interactions, but it isn't SRD.

[cucchulainnn]

V is simply tired and feed up. He/she is dealing with sleep deprivation brought on by over work trying to come up with a spell to find Haley, which will get the group back together to faciatate saving their world. . Sleep deprivation brings on serious grumpy-ness and will eventually drive a person crazy. Let me ask who of you has never in a fit of frustration said to a friend “back off or I’ll kill you”. At the moment of passion a person may mean it but over the long haul obvious not. Wile I know that elves don’t need as much sleep as humans but everything sleeps eventually. Anyone who has ever been in a position where the weight of the world sits on their shoulders requiring long work hours with little time for rest will become an SOB until they get the chance to sleep.

On a side note as an example I live in New York City. I helped dig at ground zero for several months. Let me tell you first hand, V’s attitude I had myself during that time period as well as most of the other diggers who I worked with. Of course looking back I can see my attitude was partially wrong but when I was digging with emotions running rampant, there where only two things that mattered, either you’re helping or you’re in the way. If you’re helping all is good, and if you’re in the way then I would get you out the way in the most expedient way possible regardless of the consequences or what needed to be done. We (other diggers and myself) would in a matter of minutes go from fist fighting in fits of rage to crying on each other shoulders, stemming for excessive tiredness and frustration of fear that our efforts where in vain. I recognize that in V.

Over work and sleep deprivation will make you crazy especially if you’re pushing your self for what you believe is of utmost importance, like saving the life of a friend left behind enemy lines and saving the world you live in from destruction.

[Kroy]

Intimidation. If he(she) was planning on following through on that threat, it would be a different story altogether

[Devils_Advocate]

Vaarsuvius is obviously just trying to intimidate Elan, and not actually willing to disintegrate him to prevent him from telling Hinjo what happened.

Look at what happened: V attempts intimidation. Elan doesn't understand, because he's an idiot. V gives up trying to explain, because it's taking too much time.

At the end of that exchange, Vaarsuvius still has just as much reason to believe that Elan will go and tell Hinjo what happened, as he said he would. If actually willing to kill Elan to prevent that, V wouldn't have just given up in disgust and returned to researching spells. V would have given up in disgust, blasted Elan to ashes, and then returned to researching spells.

Unless Vaarsuvius ran out of Disintegrates. But from what we've seen, V seems to have discovered some way to cast unlimited spells without resting... :smallconfused:

[Renegade Paladin]

Unless Vaarsuvius ran out of Disintegrates. But from what we've seen, V seems to have discovered some way to cast unlimited spells without resting... :smallconfused:
O RLY? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0452.html)

:smalltongue:

[tribble]

could be that V prepared a bunch of combat spells when Hinjo asked for help with elan and therkla. V is not a paladin, so V cannot "fall" per se. :smallbiggrin:

[Devils_Advocate]

O RLY? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0452.html)

:smalltongue:
YA RLY! :smallbiggrin:

Obviously, Vaarsuvius didn't know the secret to casting an indefinite number of spells then. But recently, V has been tossing spells around as frequently as ever despite having gone for an extensive period without rest.

I bet that the trick is using some sort of special somatic component. Sometimes, having a seemingly inexplicably inexhaustible supply of some resource just requires proper handwaving...

:smalltongue:

[Laurentio II]

Unless Vaarsuvius ran out of Disintegrates. But from what we've seen, V seems to have discovered some way to cast unlimited spells without resting... :smallconfused:
Or, just as a very weird theory, he just rested? You know, as in "Resting to at least recovery spells is intelligent and vital for a caster?"