Was Roy being a wee bit too judgemental on Elan??

[Belkster11]

My first topic...Wonder how it'll go...Um...Forgive me if this been done already. If so, a mod can lock it.

Breaking away from the "V's Alignment after zapping Kubota in cold blood" threads, I was just reading the older comic strips and it seems that Roy generally looks at Elan like he's a complete dunce who can't handle himself.

Elan repeatly shows his loyalty to Roy, and yet all Roy thinks is "Annoying Bard!" and even abandons him to the bandits at one point.

Yes, Roy DID go running back to save him (and the rest of the party) and all that, but still...

I guess my point is: I think Roy needs to give Elan the benift of the doubt sometimes and know that as stupid as Elan may be, he's a good fighter and is smart when he needs to be.

If Roy comes back to life and is all: "Wait?! Elan fought Kubota and managed to not screw up Hinjo's plans?! My world is turning upside down!", then I'll be a bit annoyed.

What do you think? Maybe Roy should give Elan some slack?

[Frenzied_Berz]

No. Noone diserves to be cut some slack when the entire world is at stake.

[Texas Jedi]

I agree. What always bothered me about Roy was that he wanted his little brother to be a bard. He even says that his brother would have made a fine bard.

I think that when Roy gets rezzed he will grow up. I think that he will learn to trust his team a little better with the exception of Belkar because that will lead to a stab'n.

I think that was the whole reason for the team to split up in the first place. So that when they get reunited they will fight much more like a team and not like a group of people out for Treasure and Experiance.

[Belkster11]

I think so to. Hopefully Roy's scrying down on what Elan's doing, although there's no garuntee.

I just want to see Roy grow up a bit and realize that Elan is useful. I mean, look at Elan. He had to do some fast growing up. Is he exactly the same as he was when the comic started? No. Okay, sure, he IS the lovable, naive person we love...but he's accepted responsibility.

Not that I'm a Roy-hater here. :smalleek:

But in Roy's defense, Elan's pretty stupid.

:roy: Okay, lets sneak past these ogres...
:elan: SNEAK, SNEAK, SNEAK, SNEAK PAST THE UGLY OGRES!!!!
(Cue them running away)

Speaking of Eric, there was a topic about how Roy saw Eric in Elan. Maybe he's feeling somewhat disappointed? Roy did think Eric would be a great bard, and here's this blonde kid doing that exactly...yet he's getting himself and others into trouble.

Maybe Roy saw what Eric might have been in Elan?

[RMS Oceanic]

Cut him some slack? The last time Roy was actively angry (as opposed to annoyed) with Elan was when his destruction of Dorukan's gate got them charged with crimes against existance. I thought Roy was more willing to trust his team and let them grow after Azure City trial, when he rips up their contract. Yes, letting him get kidnapped was harsh, but he realised that, and amended his mistake. I can't see him being particularly harsh on Elan after that, unless he's being annoying at the time, or getting them in trouble with the Sapphire Guard. As for the combat thing, Roy hasn't seen Elan against the Linear Guild, or hobgoblins, or against Kubota's machinations, so he can't personally judge that. He has still seen Elan do silly things, like completely demoralize the Azure City army. I think he'd be pleased how Elan has stepped up to the mark, or at least tried to.

[Belkster11]

Oh. I see.

Roy just hadn't had the opportunity to SEE Elan be something besides...being an idiot. He'll be plesantly surprised to find out what Elan's been doing for 3 months when he's rezzed.

Maybe I shouldn't be too judgemental to Roy. :smalltongue:

[David Argall]

Roy has had chances to see Elan behave competently, and to behave like...well, like Elan. He is still the same as he was when they first entered the dungeon. Roy has no serious reason to change his mind.

[Mauve Shirt]

Hopefully he'll change his mind a little after seeing what Elan's like on his own.

[Ramien]

At the time, not really. Elan was a fairly silly and somewhat unreliable character through the early strip (he didn't even really take his class seriously, after all). By Azure City, though, I think Roy was trusting Elan a little more. Elan had learned a bit more combat ability by that point, and Roy had at least heard that Elan had beaten Nale in swordplay.

[David Argall]

At the time, not really. Elan was a fairly silly and somewhat unreliable character through the early strip (he didn't even really take his class seriously, after all). By Azure City, though, I think Roy was trusting Elan a little more. Elan had learned a bit more combat ability by that point, and Roy had at least heard that Elan had beaten Nale in swordplay.
Since then he totally blew a speech to inspire the troops, offered several pieces of insane advice, couldn't even realize the friendly troops behind him were actually there, endangered the escape ship by abandoning his post, couldn't recognize an assassin after Hinjo, assumed that same assassin was some sort of superhero, didn't realize that dumping dead sea trolls into the water was a bad idea, and finally didn't even realize that V was threatening him [not a complete list].
Just what would make Roy eager to have him around?

[Charles Phipps]

No. Noone diserves to be cut some slack when the entire world is at stake.

Unfortunately, that's the argument for Roy's father. The problem is that Roy berating them doesn't do any good as they're the only ones there. Verbal tongue lashings don't work with certain personalities and this is pretty much a team of those personalities.

Besides, Elan is one of the few on the team actually who cares about the mission (admittedly, easily distracted as he may be).


Since then he totally blew a speech to inspire the troops, offered several pieces of insane advice, couldn't even realize the friendly troops behind him were actually there, endangered the escape ship by abandoning his post, couldn't recognize an assassin after Hinjo, assumed that same assassin was some sort of superhero, didn't realize that dumping dead sea trolls into the water was a bad idea, and finally didn't even realize that V was threatening him [not a complete list]. Just what would make Roy eager to have him around?

Elan's amazing comprehension that they exist in a Narrative driven world. Really, when you put it in those terms, you could just as easily get Roy looked down upon. After all, Roy's consistent attempts to engage Xykon one on one pretty much have thwarted two attempts to save the world.

[Totally Guy]

Elan needs someone to impress. Unfortunately trying to impress people seems to be the easiest way to disappoint them.

Elan is at his most competant when he is out of the presence of those characters, namely Hinjo and Roy. Currently he is being competent. Back when he rescued Haley, competent. As the most genre savvy character maybe he know this already, when the going gets tough he's got to save the day.

Plus when people think you're stupid you can take advantage of that. In the current "V being threatening" sequence I don't think therd was a better way to resolve it than by being plain dumb. The threats did not escalate and V left.

[Frenzied_Berz]

[QUOTE=Charles Phipps;5030067]Unfortunately, that's the argument for Roy's father. The problem is that Roy berating them doesn't do any good as they're the only ones there. Verbal tongue lashings don't work with certain personalities and this is pretty much a team of those personalities.

Besides, Elan is one of the few on the team actually who cares about the mission (admittedly, easily distracted as he may be).
QUOTE]

Yes and it's the right one.
Further note. There is ways to give constructive critisicm and make demands without being an ass towards people and still "not cut them slack" so to speak. If you expect them to do their absolute best to save the world and they dissapoint you. You should point out for them what they did wrong and also give them pointers to "next time". You shouldn't never ever just let it slide. Even if they know themselves what they did wrong it's up to you to make sure that they either don't begin to wallow in self-pity and that they push themselves twice as hard to remedy their failure. You yourself should aspire to do just as much. That's the -ideal- in a situation like this.

[tribble]

or, ya know, it could just be that Roy is sick of mommying Elan.
:elan::Roy, can I have a drink of water?
:elan:: Roy, Banjo wont go to sleep unless you give him a goodnight kiss!
:elan::Roy, theres a monster under my bed!
:roy::You're sleeping on the Ground!
:elan::it's a subterranean monster.

get my point?

[Weiser_Cain]

Elan only recently became good in a fight, before that he was clearly the teams weakest member. I rolled a 4!

[Linkavitch]

Yeah, I'd be disappointed if Roy came back and forced Elan back into the little box he was keeping him in. . .

[Weiser_Cain]

Alive with his pants on?
Wait is Roy still watching? If so he may know how the characters have changed in creepy detail....

[Querzis]

Lets see...what did Elan ever did that made him anything else then an incompetent moron that need to be protected in front of Roy? The only thing Roy know is that Elan beat Nale...which isnt really impressive.

No he wasnt being too judgemental. In fact, I almost think hes a saint for coming back to save that guy. Yes, as a character in a comic hes funny. But as a real person he would either drive me insane or I would just kill him after a while.

That being said, Elan as matured a lot since then and I like him a lot more then I did before...but people are still way overestimating his ability. Honestly, I dont see when he has been really competent at anything ever since Haley rescue. The only reason the orcs listened to him is because they are just as childish and stupid as him. I mean, he got out of this conflict with a freaking pie contest between puppets! And he didnt do anything impressive in combat either except jumping really high to get to Kubota boat.

[Ricky S]

Poor Elan. Roy was unnecessarily mean to Elan and continuously belittled him even though he was a valuable member of the party. Roy was also one of those people who thought Elan was uselss despite all the good stuff he has done. So it makes roy look like a bit off an a**hole. Cause who couldnt love Elan's childish charm? I certainly do.:elan:

[Lord Seth]

Since then he totally blew a speech to inspire the troops, offered several pieces of insane advice, couldn't even realize the friendly troops behind him were actually there, endangered the escape ship by abandoning his post, couldn't recognize an assassin after Hinjo, assumed that same assassin was some sort of superhero, didn't realize that dumping dead sea trolls into the water was a bad idea, and finally didn't even realize that V was threatening him [not a complete list].
Just what would make Roy eager to have him around?In regards to the trolls, Elan stated "WE dumped them overboard", likely meaning that no one knew water would regenerate them. Don't criticize him for not knowing what no one else knew anyway.