The Other Nobility

[AKA_Bait]

So, I've been wondering about how the whole turning Kubota to ash thing is going to shake out and it occured to me that there are plenty of other nobles, some of whom were also willing to openly refuse to aid Hinjo in the defense of the city. Like the old lady here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0414.html)

Do you think we are about to see more from her or the rest of them? Or will this just subplot just fizzle without that coming up?

Personally, I think it's going to be a major issue. I'm sure that V is viewed by the other Azurites as working for Hinjo. If he does anything less than openly try, and probably execute or at least imprison, V for killing Kubota then many of those nobles will have pretty good justification to depose him or at least pack up their marbles (and ships) and go home. Of course, trying to enforce the law on V could be pretty problematic as well. I just don't see V going quietly.

[Belkster11]

Yeah, so V just essentially screwed everything up (Hinjo is not about to arrest a wizard who may wind up killing him, so it makes it look like he's the bad guy), but I think there's still a saving throw for Hinjo.

If the nobles don't realize that V (who works for Hinjo) had killed Kubota, there's a way to clear it up. All Hinjo needs to hear is: "Kubota drowned" and he'll tell that to the nobles as calm and stern as possible without giving them a slightest hint that he's lying, it'll benifet him more than hurt him.

If they know V killed Kubota...Gods help them all...

[Setra]

How to put this... Elan will possibly (probably?) tell Hinjo V did it ... but...

How could anyone find out V did it? I think we're supposed to assume no one else was around so...

Not to mention the other nobles may be happy there is less competition.

Either way, Hinjo may be a Paladin so he won't lie... but that doesn't mean he needs to actively seek the people out and tell them what happened either...

[David Argall]

So, I've been wondering about how the whole turning Kubota to ash thing is going to shake out and it occured to me that there are plenty of other nobles, some of whom were also willing to openly refuse to aid Hinjo in the defense of the city. Like the old lady here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0414.html)

Do you think we are about to see more from her or the rest of them? Or will this just subplot just fizzle without that coming up?
Entirely open to writer whim. The nobles are not going to play a big role in the future. They are pretty much just scenery. However, they might demand V be executed for murder of a noble, or pledge full loyalty to Hinjo since he showed backbone by eliminating his foe [his protests that he didn't being ignored as mere propaganda]. Hinjo might actually find himself with no way to arrest or convict V because of some loophole in the law.
Now Hinjo is a paladin, and the idea of a coverup is out of the question. He is not going to say Kubota lied, unless somebody lies to him.

[LuisDantas]

Yeah, so V just essentially screwed everything up (Hinjo is not about to arrest a wizard who may wind up killing him, so it makes it look like he's the bad guy),

Hinjo will certainly try if he finds out about V's guilt. He's a Paladin. Heck, he's lawful good. He ought to attempt to arrest V out of duty and alignment alone. That would be true even if he weren't a Paladin.

Not that I think he will succeed, mind you.


but I think there's still a saving throw for Hinjo.

If the nobles don't realize that V (who works for Hinjo) had killed Kubota, there's a way to clear it up. All Hinjo needs to hear is: "Kubota drowned" and he'll tell that to the nobles as calm and stern as possible without giving them a slightest hint that he's lying,

Out of question. Hinjo simply will NOT lie about that.


it'll benefit him more than hurt him.

Slightly arguable, but probably not either. That story is not true and someone is bound to find out and use it against him eventually.


If they know V killed Kubota...Gods help them all...

Precisely. And I'm an atheist.

[batsofchaos]

In addition to the other nobles, they still will have to contend with the rest of Kubota's organization. After all, he had more support than just Qarr, Therkla, and some mook-ninjas. And outside of his hierarchy is a large population of Azurites that were Kubota-sympathetic. Hinjo has his work cut out for him.

I think This will cause a major confliction for Hinjo. On the one hand, he will feel compelled to pursue justice against V. Even though Kubota has been a thorn in his side, Hinjo has shown himself to be interested in maintaining the law. On the other hand, the Order has proven to be key allies that he will not want to arrest/expell lightly. They are at least a couple levels higher than anyone else in the fleet, which is a double-edged sword. With Kubota out of the way, they will likely face less trouble from "random attacks," but their defenses will be greatly weakened. Additionally, apprehending V would be difficult to impossible. V is easily the most powerful person on the fleet, and would not go quietly. It would take a lot of people to overpower h** and would result in many casualties, and at this point any casualties are truly catastrophic to the hopes of reclaiming Azure City.

[Setra]

Out of question. Hinjo simply will NOT lie about that.
What you're quoting said "All Hinjo needs to hear is Kubota drowned"

Hinjo wouldn't lie per se, because as far as he knows it would be the truth.

At least in regards to what you're responding there.

[Tirian]

I suspect that Kubota played a critical role in keeping the fleet unified, if only in antagonism towards Hinjo. With him out of the picture, I foresee that every nobleman is going to take their ship to a different patch of land and start over again, and the retaking of Azure City will finally be acknowledged as an impossibility.

So, for all of the talking that we are doing about whether Vaarsuvius' actions were legal or lawful or good, the ultimate verdict is that these are incidental issues; the important thing is that murdering Kubota was irreversibly destabilizing.

[Linkavitch]

All that needs to happen is for V to convince Elan to say that Kubota drowned or was eaten by a shark or something.

[Belkster11]

Elan's not blind. He SAW what happened. V would have to cast suggestion on him in order to prevent the truth from coming out.

Elan said it himself: He's not gonna lie for V. He was going to tell Hinjo what happened.

[Querzis]

All that needs to happen is for V to convince Elan to say that Kubota drowned or was eaten by a shark or something.

Unfortunately, V is way too obsessed with research right now. If he wanted to make Elan forget what he saw, he would have done it already. Especially since, at the end of the last strip he seems to be leaving to do more research.

Yeah V really screwed things up. Cant deny it was cool and badass though. Now I actually hope the other nobles try to arrest V because V woudnt go quietly and V is really badass when hes evil...but I also hope its not Hinjo who try to arrest V. I like Hinjo.

[AKA_Bait]

I also hope its not Hinjo who try to arrest V. I like Hinjo.

Meh. Hinjo also has high saves. Depending upon the circumstances he might be able to take V by himself, and he won't be by himself. Miko took on the whole OotS and Hinjo was the second highest ranking paladin behind her. He's no slouch.

[Eric]

Meh. Hinjo also has high saves. Depending upon the circumstances he might be able to take V by himself, and he won't be by himself. Miko took on the whole OotS and Hinjo was the second highest ranking paladin behind her. He's no slouch.

Yeah, only if they are in enclosed quarters because with one clear round, a fighter of lower level even with save bonuses is toast (fighters get cack will saves, paladins get a cha bonus but that's still a poor base save for will)

[Evil DM Mark3]

From what I have seen of the nobles of the city the proper procedure to take after a guy is killed is to backstab and squabble for his position whilst assuming that one of your rivals did the deed.

[derfenrirwolv]

Its a definite quandary for hinjo.

As a paladin, V's acts were clearly unlawfull and the morality of the act would at least require looking into. He needs to be brought in front of the rightfull government to answer for his actions.

As a ruler, trying v or even banishing him is 1) dangerous to his people 2) Will most likely make v just fly off somewhere. 3) would deprive his people of his most powerfull resource in ensuring that they stay alive

Given that hinjo let belkar out under a work release program, i wouldn't be surprise if hinjo releases V to Elan's custody, or simply arrests him and sentances him to protecting the ships (which he's already doing)

[GSFB]

all this talk of whether V or Hinjo would win is poppycock.

first off, the winner of the hypothetical is the one the author chooses.

second off, in a real D&D game with the two characters fighting each other, the one who wins initiative has a tremendous advantage. if Hinjo attacks first, then he will hit and do damage. V then needs to succeed at an outrageous concentration check to get a spell off. No spell off means Hinjo attacks again without taking harm. V is cut to ribbons and is dead in 3 rounds at best. if V goes first and is able to use a spell like dominate, then the battle is over.

now, with these two characters, I am guessing Hinjo has a real advantage on initiative. his fighting style is based on light or no armor, so he probably has a high DEX. he is more likely than V to have a feat like improved initiative or blooded to pick up a bonus. V is a highly optimized spell caster. DEX is not high on the priority list. feats are more likely focused on improving evocations than initiative. I would guess V has, at most a +1 bonus to initiative. Hinjo probably has at minimum a +2 and if his DEX is even higher than a typical "samurai" type warrior and he has a couple of relevent feats could be as high as +10.

And that is not even factoring in that Hinjo, as a nobleman himself and now the ruler of his people, probably has magic items that boost DEX and may have used permament magic for a DEX boost as well. Just because he is a paladin doesn't mean he has taken a vow of poverty! So there is really no telling just how high his initiative might be.

So, in terms of a roll-off, my guess is that Hinjo is maybe many, many times more likely to win initiative and destroy V. Of course, he wouldn't do that. He would strike to subdue. And of course, he wouldn't have to, because he wouldn't get into a fight with V - unless the author wants him to, in which case all bets are off and the winner is whoever the author wants.

[Arutema]

I'm guessing that if Elan does tell Hinjo, Hinjo's response to the other nobles might be something like "Kubota was caught committing a murder. There was a battle. Kubota was killed" Technically true, but does lack one important detail.

[Finwe]

if Hinjo attacks first, then he will hit and do damage. V then needs to succeed at an outrageous concentration check to get a spell off.

A caster's concentration check to cast a spell is based solely on the damage done to them while casting the spell, not before/after the spell.