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View Full Version : New to Psionics, Fresh to D&D, Help me build a Psion please.



Siddsartre
2008-10-01, 04:21 PM
All right, first post at the very forum that my friends and I have visited many a time. I'm hoping that you folks will be able to help me with a build I've got in mind.

Currently amidst a Good-oriented campaign in which I play an asskicking Duskblade/Green Star Adept (controversial build, I know), My DM is planning on Running a Neutral-Evil campaign next. Naturally, this destroys any chance of me pulling of the Vow Of Poverty Druid I wanted to try so much, so I had to think of something completely new. As it's going to be an "evil-ish" campaign, I wanted my character to reflect that from the start, particularly in the form of a domineering personality (mind control, etc.). I was drawn to Psionics. All I know about psionics, however, is a minute amount I've picked up from fighting a few Illithids. Walking into it fresh, and with my DM considering what I've voiced as wanting in a character and offering helpful suggestions, this is what I've come up with.

I'm looking to play a Telepath, and then at level six prestige into Thrallherd. It seems worth noting also, that I'm very seriously considering "Dromite" as a race. It seems very interesting to me role-play wise, and fits in very nice in terms of what I'd want stat-wise for Telepath and Thrallherd. Not to mention that we're to have a dragonborn frenzied bezerker in are party, and we've got it set up where I'll dominate her mentally if she goes bezerk on the party, and I think a little bugman controlling a giant dragonborn frenzying is pretty darn comical ("I'm Jimminy Cricket, your conscience, stop killing us").

To make this short, and I apologize for being so long-winded, I was wondering if you folks could help me with feat progression and power choices. As I said, I'm completely new to psionics, and this would only be my third D&D character overall (I'm still a bit wet behind the ears). What would a telepath want for powers? Which would segueway effectively into thrallherd and provide for me the mind-controlling, dominating, charismatic deceiver I so crave? Also, has anyone had experience roleplaying Dromites? What can you tell me about that?

Thanks so much, everyone.

NEO|Phyte
2008-10-01, 04:29 PM
Hmm, an Evil game, psionics are go, and you're thinking a Telepath going into Thrallherd?

:smallamused:

You are in for a fun time. There's fun to be had in abusing your powers for evil. For instance, if you are a race/template/whatever that requires neither sleep, food, or drink, you can Brain Lock (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/brainLock.htm) somebody, and just stand there concentrating on the spell until they dehydrate to death. Obviously not useful for short-term evil, but it makes for GREAT backstory. Right up there with a portable hole filled with everyone you've ever cast Microcosm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/microcosm.htm) on, each with a ring of sustenance.

:edit: As for power selection, focus on your strengths, but make DAMN sure to have some variety, so you aren't totally boned in the inevitable undead/construct/plant/ooze/whatever fights where [Mind-Affecting] does jack. As an example, Malous (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=6961) is a warforged Telepath/Thrallherd that was quite successful in the campaign he was made for. The powers are listed in the order I selected them from the start of the campaign (on the off-chance I went for Psychic Reformation to re-pick powers), which is why the levels are all over the place.

Cuddly
2008-10-01, 04:30 PM
I read the post and immediately thought "Telepath into Thrallherd".
Heh.

Don't get too many powers that overlap.
Pick up Overchannel as a feat, since you can't manifest more power points on a power than you have manifester levels. Basically take HP damage to cast higher level spells.

If you build it right, you can be dominating things like the Tarrasque around level 13. I recommend getting a psi-crystal and the power that lets you have your psi crystal continue concentrating for you. This is useful because you can spend lots of pp augmenting your dominate power to dominate, not last for days, as well as having it take over concentrate for damaging spells (when you fight mindblanked creatures or undead).

Another worthwhile power is dispel- at level 10, you can be blasting with a dispel for 1d20 +30. Lower level if you overchannel.

Psychic Reformation is also an awesome power, since you just spend a little time re-specing your character if your feats or powers aren't working.

Starbuck_II
2008-10-01, 04:33 PM
All right, first post at the very forum that my friends and I have visited many a time. I'm hoping that you folks will be able to help me with a build I've got in mind.

Currently amidst a Good-oriented campaign in which I play an asskicking Duskblade/Green Star Adept (controversial build, I know), My DM is planning on Running a Neutral-Evil campaign next. Naturally, this destroys any chance of me pulling of the Vow Of Poverty Druid I wanted to try so much, so I had to think of something completely new. As it's going to be an "evil-ish" campaign, I wanted my character to reflect that from the start, particularly in the form of a domineering personality (mind control, etc.). I was drawn to Psionics. All I know about psionics, however, is a minute amount I've picked up from fighting a few Illithids. Walking into it fresh, and with my DM considering what I've voiced as wanting in a character and offering helpful suggestions, this is what I've come up with.

I'm looking to play a Telepath, and then at level six prestige into Thrallherd. It seems worth noting also, that I'm very seriously considering "Dromite" as a race. It seems very interesting to me role-play wise, and fits in very nice in terms of what I'd want stat-wise for Telepath and Thrallherd. Not to mention that we're to have a dragonborn frenzied bezerker in are party, and we've got it set up where I'll dominate her mentally if she goes bezerk on the party, and I think a little bugman controlling a giant dragonborn frenzying is pretty darn comical ("I'm Jimminy Cricket, your conscience, stop killing us").

To make this short, and I apologize for being so long-winded, I was wondering if you folks could help me with feat progression and power choices. As I said, I'm completely new to psionics, and this would only be my third D&D character overall (I'm still a bit wet behind the ears). What would a telepath want for powers? Which would segueway effectively into thrallherd and provide for me the mind-controlling, dominating, charismatic deciever I so crave? Also, has anyone had experience roleplaying Dromites? What can you tell me about that?

Thanks so much, everyone.

First, the basics, you can't spend more power points on any single manufestation than your manifester level I(similar to a caster level).

Now that we got that settled:

Telepath is a great choice for a mind controller/charmer.
Have you thought about a Psicrystyal? They are useful for Metapsionics (more on that soon).

Remember, to always start your day with DC 20 Concentration check: to gain a Psionic Focus. Psionic Focus lets you use a MetaPsionics Feat (Empower, Maximize, etc), a few Psionic Feats (Psionic Shot, Psionic Weapon, etc), and if neccessary use expend it to get a roll of 15 on Concentration check automatically.

You need to have good Intelligence because you are Psion.

To use a Metapsionic feat, you must expend your psionic Focus. You can only hold one at a time individually, but if you have a Psycrystal (he can hold another if spend right feat).
To gain back a Focus is kinda hard (full round or stand action, I forget), but there is a feat to gain it back as a move action.

The Psionic Focus requirement sounds bad, but the level increase cost for Metapsionic feats are less than the magical ones Slot increase (so it costs less but must expend focus).

What level are we working with?

Siddsartre
2008-10-01, 05:28 PM
What level are we working with?

Rarely does this DM start us as anything but level 1, and he certainly wouldn't start above five. My plan is, however, to have the character's progression as planned out as I can by the time the campaign starts.

As for Psicrystals; I'm embarassingly ignorant on exactly what they are/how to use them/what they're for. My plan was to spend the day reading up as much as I can in Expanded Psionics, but I don't have my laptop on me. :(

Once I get my laptop back, I'll take a closer look at Psicrystals, and also at the spell list in Malous's character sheet. Thanks for that, Neophyte.

Any other recommendations on power/feat progression? Insight into Dromites? Personal Annecdotes regarding my class or race?

Gralamin
2008-10-01, 05:36 PM
Rarely does this DM start us as anything but level 1, and he certainly wouldn't start above five. My plan is, however, to have the character's progression as planned out as I can by the time the campaign starts.

As for Psicrystals; I'm embarassingly ignorant on exactly what they are/how to use them/what they're for. My plan was to spend the day reading up as much as I can in Expanded Psionics, but I don't have my laptop on me. :(

Psicrystals are the Familiars of Psions. They are best used in order to supplement yourself, using feats to give them the ability to hold a psionic focus, and also realizing that Psicrystal's get feats.


Once I get my laptop back, I'll take a closer look at Psicrystals, and also at the spell list in Malous's character sheet. Thanks for that, Neophyte.

Any other recommendations on power/feat progression? Insight into Dromites? Personal Annecdotes regarding my class or race?

Malous is a solid example. I should I know, I was in that campaign :smallsmile:. Race wise, anything without an intelligence penalty and a level adjustment of more then +1 should work out fine.

Siddsartre
2008-10-01, 05:50 PM
Race wise, anything without an intelligence penalty and a level adjustment of more then +1 should work out fine.

I'm probably mistaken here, but I think my DM might've mentioned most of my powers being Charisma based. Does that have something to do specifically with the thrallherd, or am I just mis-remembering? I bring that up because I think one of the reasons I was leaning towards Dromite was a +2 charisma bonus (and I think it might have been partly at the expense of intelligence). If that is the case that the dromite takes a big hit for the intelligence penalty, is there another race that's naturally psionic, which would go well into thrallherd, that I should look into?

Gralamin
2008-10-01, 05:59 PM
I'm probably mistaken here, but I think my DM might've mentioned most of my powers being Charisma based. Does that have something to do specifically with the thrallherd, or am I just mis-remembering? I bring that up because I think one of the reasons I was leaning towards Dromite was a +2 charisma bonus (and I think it might have been partly at the expense of intelligence). If that is the case that the dromite takes a big hit for the intelligence penalty, is there another race that's naturally psionic, which would go well into thrallherd, that I should look into?

First, Make sure this is the Expanded Psionics Handbook. The 3.0 version, the Psionics Handbook, sucked, and had it so that telepathy was based off charisma. In the Expanded Psionics Handbook, provided you are a psion, your intelligence modifier is used for all your powers.
A Thrallherds Leadership score is equal to Total Character Level + Thrall Herd Levels + Your charisma modifier (Or Thrallherd levels *2 + Levels in other classes + Your charisma modifier). Even a moderately high charisma of say 16 won't matter much over the long term.
If you want to consider another race, the Elan is one of the best flavor wise, but just about anything should work, since being naturally psionic isn't important (Its mostly a Hold over from previous editions).

TheLogman
2008-10-01, 06:00 PM
Link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/index.htm#tableAbilityModifiersandBonusPowerPoints )

Usually, Psions (Telepathic Psion in your case) use intelligence as their main state. Psychic Warriors use Wisdom, and Wilders use Charisma.

Your DM may think you are a Wilder, or he may be using some of the 3.0 psionic rules.

You see, in 3.0, your main casting stat was dependent on which Discipline you chose, and in 3.0, Telepathy was indeed linked to Charisma. (Expanded Psionics Handbook is 3.5 by the way)

Or, your DM may recognize that a Telepath is messing with people's minds socially, and require Charisma.

In summary, as a Psion, you would under the rules use Intelligence, but your DM may have changed it for whatever reason.

Also, this site (http://www.d20srd.org/) has a ton of free legal D&D stuff, including material from Player's Handbook, Dm's guide, Monster Manual, ESP, and Unearthed Arcena.

Psionic Section of the site above. (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/psionicRacesClassesSkillsSpells.htm)

JMobius
2008-10-01, 06:08 PM
Oh man, I am also currently making a psion, and this thread has given me some horrible, horrible ideas. :smallbiggrin:

NEO|Phyte
2008-10-01, 06:10 PM
As for Psicrystals; I'm embarassingly ignorant on exactly what they are/how to use them/what they're for. My plan was to spend the day reading up as much as I can in Expanded Psionics, but I don't have my laptop on me. :(

Any other recommendations on power/feat progression? Insight into Dromites? Personal Annecdotes regarding my class or race?

Psicrystals are remarkably similar to familiars, only instead of a creature summoned and bonded to you in a ritual, they're a fragment of your personality in physical form (WHICH fragment determines what bonus it gives you, and you can spend feats to add more personalities, for more bonuses). The primary difference between familiars and psicrystals (in my mind, anyway) is that psicrystals can be useful without having to dump various buffs on it, purely because of the ability to channel your powers through it (using it as the point of origin, rather than yourself) at 15th level. It's essentially a boost of up to a mile on the range of all your powers.

For powers, as I said, specialize, but don't OVERspecialize. Pick up one or two of the direct damage powers. Be able to target saves or touch AC as needed. Powers that bypass power resistance are handy, in the event of finding a foe you can't easily make the check on, even if it's something as minor as being able to Entangle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/entanglingEctoplasm.htm) the foe. Deja Vu (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/dejaVu.htm) is always a hoot. While most of your save or lose options are [Mind-Affecting], not all of them are (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/decerebrate.htm). I ALWAYS grab Energy Adaptation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyAdaptation.htm) if the game is high enough level for it. Immediate action energy resistance is ALWAYS a good thing. Time Hop (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timeHop.htm) can bypass doors without leaving any sign of tampering, and can also be used to save dying party members long enough for a healer to reach them. Deja Vu (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/dejaVu.htm) is always a hoot. Control Sound (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlSound.htm) has little practical use, but GREAT potential for badassery in the right conditions.

For feats, aside from Inquisitor (required for Thrallherd), you're pretty open in what you can do. If you're planning on making use of your psionic focus a lot (primarily through metapsionics), you'll want Psionic Meditation, and probably Psicrystal Affinity and Psicrystal Containment, so you can have two focuses, and recharge your own as a move action. Overchannel can be used to eke out a bit more power from your powers, at the expense of taking some damage. Stuff like Speed of Thought and Up the Walls is more useful to a more martial-oriented character, but if you want to move faster or be able to do Prince of Persia-esque wallrunning, they're there. If you want a power from another discipline's special list, Expanded Knowledge can get it to you (unless it's a 9th level power, you'll need to go into Epic levels to be able to get those by feat).

For dromites, I've never played one myself, but I CAN say that they aren't human or anything remotely similar to it. You're a genderless insectile (though not as much as the thri-kreen) being, so ACT like one. I'm away from my books currently, so I can't really go into more detail than what I remember about them.

Natania
2008-10-01, 06:24 PM
It's been a long, long time since I played a psionic and I don't have the book handy but Indeed Int is very important. Maybe Cha also although I'm not sure if you need that to dominate people as a psionic.

One thing that I found very, very usefull is schism. I'm not sure whether it was a feat or a power but it basically splits your mind in half so you can two things at once instead of one.

I used it to run away and cast some very painful power on a spellweaver? and if I hadn't had schism I would have died...

I can give you more info in the morning maybe I can find my old char.

Telok
2008-10-01, 08:56 PM
Dromite Thrallherd is fun. Be sure to pick your main thrall according to the campaign. If you're not playing with a battle map a spiked chain area control thrall is near useless, and another dromite psion thrall is always DM abuse.

One campaign I was in I ran a dwarf psion(nomad)/fighter from levels 2 to 18 over the course of two RL years. At low levels I ran with a breastplate, guisarme, improved trip, energy ray, and force screen. At mid levels I used teleport, fly, a power storing deep crystal dwarven waraxe, and telekinetic thrust (throw enemy weapons from their hands to your allies, will negates) or retrieve. By 18 I was near unkillable with high Con, psionic body, many many psionic feats, energy resistance, overchanneled SR/PR, true metabolisim, flight, and a schismed mind for defensive powers. Divination, true seeing, call to mind, TK-thrusting bodies to the cleric for revivify. At 15 I picked up psychic reformation to change out feats and powers, dropped energy ray for crystal shard too, because SR rolls were getting annoying.

For my general suggestions:

A high Con and the feat Psychic Body are really nice. Take as many [Psychic] feats as possible, if you don't know what to take Expanded Knowledge can't hurt you.

You do not suffer arcane spell failure, wear the best armor you can. A one level dip into Psychic Warrior, Fighter, or something similar isn't a bad choice. PsyWar is nice because you can pick up another power (compression is nice if you're already small) and a bonus psychic feat in addition to all martial weapons and armors.

Expanded Knowledge rocks! Grab Astral Construct off the Shaper list, Empathic Transfer - Hostile from the PsyWar list, or Dimension Swap from the Nomad list. Plus it's a psychic feat, +2 hp if you have Psionic Body.

Don't double up on attack powers. A touch attack, a Will save, and a Fort save are all you really need. Energy Ray rules at low levels, +1 damage fire or cold, +2 to hit metal with electric, and almost nothing is resistant to sonic. At higher levels when spell resistance and power resistance become common change over to Crystal Shard, it's piercing damage but bypasses SR. Choose offensive powers to get around the most common defenses.

Don't ignore utility powers. Dispel Psionics is awesome, and it augments. Call to Mind, Energy Adaptation - Specified, Trace Teleport, True Seeing. All of these are often overlooked in power lists, but when you need them you'll need them bad.

Balance. Don't get three powers that do the same thing in different ways or shapes. One or two buff powers is fine, more is probably going to be excessive unless you can augment them to immediate actions or Schism them in. Basic offense, good defense, and utilities. Don't forget to pick a fun power too.

PS: Psycrystals are fine sized constructs, they can crawl and fly, and you can communicate and scry on them. They make astonishingly good scouts and alarms.

Cuddly
2008-10-01, 09:00 PM
...Deja Vu (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/dejaVu.htm) is always a hoot....Deja Vu (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/dejaVu.htm) is always a hoot....

lol
fillerfillerfiller

NEO|Phyte
2008-10-01, 09:15 PM
lol
fillerfillerfiller

If it's good enough to be printed twice in the XPH, it's good enough to be mentioned twice elsewhere.

Siddsartre
2008-10-02, 12:02 PM
Thanks for all the help guys. I really appreciate it.

I'll be able to collate this all together later today, and come up with a plan. Keep the good advice coming!


Is there any race I could look into which might suit be better than dromite? Perhaps one with + to Int, and + to Cha? I'd really rather not go above the +1 level adjustment, and now that I'm seriously considering dropping my first level in Psionic Warrior (for the armor proficiencies), I might steer away from level adjusted characters altogether and just go human (I'm not even sure if a Dromite can wear armor...).

I think my DM might've mentioned at some point something about a "Golden Halfling"...?

Drascin
2008-10-02, 12:55 PM
First things first - get completely sure about what Psionics manual your DM is using.

If he's using the 3.0 one, do not, repeat, do NOT, under any circumstance, play a Psion. That book was one of the worst things to ever happen to psionics, I tell you this as a complete psionics junkie.

If you do have the Expanded Psionics Handbook... you're in for a lot of fun.

Anyway, let's get with your particular case. Telepath, going into Thrallherd, huh?

Well, no matter how you slice it, as a psion you need every point of Intelligence you can squeeze. And more as a Telepath - a Shaper can more or less manage, but Telepaths live and die by their spell saves. And as a Thrallherd, having some extra Charisma, while not required per se, can never hurt, given your main ability is a Leadership, and it keys off Charisma. The other stats are less meaningful.

Second... level adjustments hurt a lot. One less manifester level can mean a surprisingly high amount of power points at some levels, and you'll be lacking endurance as is. Try for some race without LA if at all possible, unless you already have that Dromite concept fully fleshed.

Third... I'll echo Telok in a few accounts. First, don't double up in powers. Psion's attack powers are greatly versatile - one or two energy powers, tops, should fill up most of your blasting needs. Secondly, do not ever underestimate utility powers. Time Hop in particular is ridiculously handy (Ohh, a door. I guess I'll just port the lock thirty seconds into the future, get through, and close again, so that there is no trace I ever came through here) but there are a lot others. And third, consider Expanded Knowledge. Energy Missile is one of the best blasts in the game (up to five objectives in an area, but not really area, so no hitting your minions), and Astral Construct is something that can always see use - just to name two examples.

Siddsartre
2008-10-02, 01:07 PM
First things first - get completely sure about what Psionics manual your DM is using.

He's using expanded psionics, 3.5, for sure.

The more and more I hear/think about dromite, the more the level adjustment seems extraordinarily detrimental for me. I suppose I'll just find something with + to Intelligence, and make it psionic.

Siddsartre
2008-10-02, 04:22 PM
DM says dromites are out of the question. Bug-people don't exist in his world.

He pointed me towards Sun-Elf though. +2 Int, -2 Con. Seems a fair enough choice (unless I can convince him to let me do it in halfling form, or at least anything I like better than elf. Not the biggest fan.)

Starbuck_II
2008-10-02, 04:34 PM
DM says dromites are out of the question. Bug-people don't exist in his world.

He pointed me towards Sun-Elf though. +2 Int, -2 Con. Seems a fair enough choice (unless I can convince him to let me do it in halfling form, or at least anything I like better than elf. Not the biggest fan.)

While +2 Int is awesome nice; -2 Con sucks. Sure, you can survive, but really not sure about the trade.

Why not just an Maenad?
No stat penalty and +2 power points.

Or a Grey Elf (From Monster Manual): +2 Dex/Int, but lose 2 Str/Con. If you are going to lose Con why not get more bonusi.

Xeph: Lose Str (like you used that much) but +2 Dex.

The Bushranger
2008-10-02, 05:08 PM
Mmm, psionics...

Reading this thread has given me a lot of ideas. :smallamused:

How would people suggest power progression for these characters?

-CG Kineticist aiming for Electrokineticist
-NG Telepath

Siddsartre
2008-10-02, 05:15 PM
While +2 Int is awesome nice; -2 Con sucks. Sure, you can survive, but really not sure about the trade.

Eh, my would-be fellow party members have pretty much convinced me that it's not all that big of a deal. There are 3 melee people in the party to stand between me and a threat, and I've got plenty of psionic fallbacks to defend myself.

Thanks for pointing me towards the grey elf though, that's what I'll be going for.

NEO|Phyte
2008-10-02, 05:47 PM
Mmm, psionics...

Reading this thread has given me a lot of ideas. :smallamused:

How would people suggest power progression for these characters?

-CG Kineticist aiming for Electrokineticist
-NG Telepath

For the first, pick up all the Energy X powers you can before hitting the PrC, use the remaining powers known as you see fit. You won't have too many options, as the [Element]kineticist PrC doesn't advance your manifesting in any way.

For the second, since you aren't going into Thrallherd (Thrallherd gets it for free, along with Psionic Charm), pick up Psionic Dominate once you can. Remember to aim for the horse, not the rider. Have a selection of powers that AREN'T [Mind-Affecting], one trick ponies can be fun, but if you can't pull off your one trick, you're boned. Brain Lock might be able to fully take someone out of the fight, but Id Insinuation can hit multiple targets. Ego Whip deals charisma damage, and can also daze your target. Body Adjustment is an inefficient source of healing, don't take it unless you have no other source. If you've got a psicrystal, Solicit Psicrystal means you can hold a concentration duration power on someone and keep working elsewhere.

That's about as much as I can suggest without knowing more than alignment and discipline.

JMobius
2008-10-02, 06:02 PM
Since we're all building psions here, let me throw mine out there and also beg for suggestions. :smallbiggrin:

We're starting at 5th level. Like the OP, the plan is to go from Telepath into Thrallherd, with a very, very strong emphasis on telepathic manipulation. However:

A) Humans only, as per the campaign setting.

B) Casting stat for psions is houseruled to WIS.

C) He's good aligned, or that's the plan anyway. The motivation for manipulation is of the "hidden hand, for the greater good" variety.

D) I would actually prefer to be a one trick pony, or at least stay as much in the telepathy domain as possible. This is just for flavor reasons; he is to be a very quiet and discreet sort, and frying other's minds or employing telekinesis doesn't quite fit with this.

E) He's essentially a pacifist, so frying brains is pretty much out anyway. :smallsmile:

Kind of a limiting list, but... anyone have any suggestions for unobvious powers or feats I might want to look at?

The Glyphstone
2008-10-02, 06:28 PM
Evil Thrallherds are awesome.

The big thing about Thrallherd versus ordinary Leadership is what makes it so easy to abuse if you don't care about your alignment - your thralls obey you unquestioningly, and they always get replaced within 24 hours. Trap detectors, disposable flankers, bridge-building materials, whatever. Think Xykon and his hobgoblins and add extra evil.

NEO|Phyte
2008-10-02, 06:31 PM
Since we're all building psions here, let me throw mine out there and also beg for suggestions. :smallbiggrin:

We're starting at 5th level. Like the OP, the plan is to go from Telepath into Thrallherd, with a very, very strong emphasis on telepathic manipulation. However:

A) Humans only, as per the campaign setting.

B) Casting stat for psions is houseruled to WIS.

C) He's good aligned, or that's the plan anyway. The motivation for manipulation is of the "hidden hand, for the greater good" variety.

D) I would actually prefer to be a one trick pony, or at least stay as much in the telepathy domain as possible. This is just for flavor reasons; he is to be a very quiet and discreet sort, and frying other's minds or employing telekinesis doesn't quite fit with this.

E) He's essentially a pacifist, so frying brains is pretty much out anyway. :smallsmile:

Kind of a limiting list, but... anyone have any suggestions for unobvious powers or feats I might want to look at?

Hmmm, quiet, discrete, pacifistic, as much telepathy as possible... I'd say pretty much any of the Telepathy powers aside from the ones that deal damage could fit. You'll be able to sense surface emotions, hostile intent, surface thoughts if you're willing to throw a will save at your target, as well as have oodles of ways to alter minds. Attractions, Aversions, Suggestions, and possibly a few harsher (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/inflictPain.htm) methods (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/crisisofBreath.htm) if you feel they'd fit.

Starbuck_II
2008-10-02, 06:35 PM
Mmm, psionics...

Reading this thread has given me a lot of ideas. :smallamused:

How would people suggest power progression for these characters?

-CG Kineticist aiming for Electrokineticist
-NG Telepath

Where is Electrokineticist located?

Is that an adaptation of Pyro Prc in XpH?
If so, remember Pyro is not a manifesting Prc. So you are building a gish type and works better with Psychic Warrior as they are melee dudes.

The Bushranger
2008-10-02, 09:06 PM
@Starbuck II: Yeah, it's a variant PyroK from the Wizards site (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625e). That character is very much "I can fry you with Force Lightning" :smallbiggrin: so that's the PrC of choice...


For the first, pick up all the Energy X powers you can before hitting the PrC, use the remaining powers known as you see fit. You won't have too many options, as the [Element]kineticist PrC doesn't advance your manifesting in any way.

For the second, since you aren't going into Thrallherd (Thrallherd gets it for free, along with Psionic Charm), pick up Psionic Dominate once you can. Remember to aim for the horse, not the rider. Have a selection of powers that AREN'T [Mind-Affecting], one trick ponies can be fun, but if you can't pull off your one trick, you're boned. Brain Lock might be able to fully take someone out of the fight, but Id Insinuation can hit multiple targets. Ego Whip deals charisma damage, and can also daze your target. Body Adjustment is an inefficient source of healing, don't take it unless you have no other source. If you've got a psicrystal, Solicit Psicrystal means you can hold a concentration duration power on someone and keep working elsewhere.

That's about as much as I can suggest without knowing more than alignment and discipline.

Thanks, that helps a lot. More details:

The electo-gal is currently a Scout 1/Psion 1; the first level powers I took were Crystal Shard, Energy Ray and Force Screen. The plan is to alternate levels in Scout and Psion until the PrC is reached; it's possible that a one-level dip into Barbarian might be taken, although the character might well evolve in ways that would make that less suitable. (As she is now, Rage would be a very fitting ability for her personality.) Despite being CG (and a (human) follower of Eilistraee), she's very much a fry-it-first-and-Speak with Dead-later type of person.

The telepath is in a game where the characters are starting out at "1/2 level" as kids who've grown up together and are just striking out in the world as adventurers. As part of the .5 Level thing, they start with one power - in her case, Mindlink. She's part of a five-person party, and it's looking like four psions and a bard...
I'm considering aiming her for the Shadowmind PrC.

NEO|Phyte
2008-10-02, 09:47 PM
Thanks, that helps a lot. More details:

The electo-gal is currently a Scout 1/Psion 1; the first level powers I took were Crystal Shard, Energy Ray and Force Screen. The plan is to alternate levels in Scout and Psion until the PrC is reached; it's possible that a one-level dip into Barbarian might be taken, although the character might well evolve in ways that would make that less suitable. (As she is now, Rage would be a very fitting ability for her personality.) Despite being CG (and a (human) follower of Eilistraee), she's very much a fry-it-first-and-Speak with Dead-later type of person.

The telepath is in a game where the characters are starting out at "1/2 level" as kids who've grown up together and are just striking out in the world as adventurers. As part of the .5 Level thing, they start with one power - in her case, Mindlink. She's part of a five-person party, and it's looking like four psions and a bard...
I'm considering aiming her for the Shadowmind PrC.
Hmm, blending in some noncaster classes isn't a bad idea for the Xkineticist, since it's basically a 'trap' PrC for full manifesters. Barbarian, however, is a bad idea, as your PrC abilities are Psi-like abilities, which, like spell-like abilities, are a no-go while raging.

Shadowmind... sounds like you'll want to avoid anything flashy (such as the Energy X powers), and remember to dispense with displays (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#display) to minimize the chances of anyone noticing what you're up to. Ideally, the closest anyone should come to realizing you're there is the tingle of an inevitable passed will save, but having some backup powers for when you're detected is a good idea.

Quirinus_Obsidian
2008-10-03, 10:34 PM
Another thought is the Body Leech (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040925a) prestige class from the wizards site. That is an evil only class, and it is all about telepath. =D

Leicontis
2008-10-03, 10:55 PM
Take the Expanded Knowledge feat. Use it for either one of the Kineticist energy powers (Energy Missile and/or Energy Ball would be my recommendation) or for the Shaper's Astral Construct power. Get Astral Construct if you feel your party could use more tanking, or an Energy power if you want some blasting. Speaking as someone currently playing a level 12 psion, I can tell you that Energy Missile will cover you in almost all situations where you want to blast - up to five targets for free (augmentable for more), plenty of damage, and the ability to pick the energy type (and do either reflex or fort - useful when most of your powers will be going after their will save).

Another power you might like is Concussion Blast - psionic equivalent of Magic Missile, but you can also do nonlethal damage (if you want to interrogate/dominate them later). If you've got lots of sneak attack in the party, Psionic Grease will leave anybody w/ less than 5 ranks in Balance flat-footed, though it doesn't allow augmentation, which is somewhat annoying. Still great for dealing with fullplate, though :)

I second the recommendation for Dispel - a psion can dispel more effectively, and only a warlock can throw more dispels. Other fun powers (at higher levels) are Anticipatory Strike and Inconstant Location - the first allows you to interrupt pretty much anything, while the second gives you some great mobility. Control Body is a kinetic power that's somewhat in your idiom, as you can telekinetically puppet an enemy in combat, though I'd recommend combining that with Solicit Psicrystal.

The Bushranger
2008-10-04, 12:20 AM
Awesome. *frantically scribbles notes* Many thanks.

Energy Missile rocks. ^_^

The Glyphstone
2008-10-04, 12:26 AM
Awesome. *frantically scribbles notes* Many thanks.

Energy Missile rocks. ^_^

Keep in mind that Energy Missile as printed is rather OP - the erratta that changed its Augment to increments of 2 PP instead of 1 PP was the only good thing to come out of The Splatbook That Shall Not Be Named

jcsw
2008-10-04, 02:36 AM
Stygian Dominion is a level 4 power which lets you take control of undead, leaving your body empty for a while, it's in Comp. Psionic, and useful for when your DM throws them at you thinking you can't touch them.

You could play Erudite instead of Psion, you just need to spend a bit of exp on mindlink. Erudite is mostly useful for stealing power off other dominated psions, and using the http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a variant, which will net you some useful spells.

There's also this interesting trick I found. Learn the Synchronicity power in Comp. Psionic. Now take the Linked Power metapsionic feat. Get the idea? Link Synchronicity to Synchronicity, effectively you've spent psionic focus to gain an action the next turn. From this you can graduate into more complex tricks, like:
Schism]Sync-linked-Sync
Standard]Sync-linked-Sync
Move]Regain Psionic Focus
Standard]Sync-linked-Sync
Standard]Normal Power 1
Standard]Normal Power 2,
gaining a net of one standard action this round by losing your schism's focus (schism'd minds can't regain focus, but IIRC they start with one if you are already focused). The next round, you gain another three extra standard actions, and an Angry DM.

Crazy Scot
2008-10-06, 03:17 AM
Okay, coming from a person who has played a few psionic characters, let me start off with some basic suggestions.

First: the biggest problem you will have playing a psionic character is power point (pp) conservation. You will want to not burn all your pp in your first encounter, but don't want to leave your party out to dry by not using your powers at all. The trick is to find the right balance. Unfortunately, finding that balance in a party/campaign or with a particular DM will require each person to work individually and there is little overall suggestions we can give you along those fronts. There are a few things just about any pp using character will eventually want to invest it. The feat Earth Power (Races of Stone) reduces the overall pp cost of any power you manifest by 1 pp (minimum of 0) as long as you are psionically focused and standing on stone or unworked earth. This feat will go a long way to making sure you are useful for the entire day. Additionally, when you are high enough level/get your hands on enough gold, look into the magic item called the Torc of Power Preservation (Expanded Psionics Handbook). The Torc will reduce the pp cost of any power you manifest by 1 pp (minimum of 1). These two suggestions stack, and if you really want to focus your spending, you can stack the Torc's abilities multiple times onto the same Torc reducing the cost by an additional 1 pp per stack (though this gets really expensive).

Second: as suggested by other posters, don't go all out into one discipline too much. If you are going Telepath, have a few blasty powers or something that you can throw at those annoying foes that are immune to telepathy. A good analogy, a fighter would not do well in a fight with undead without a bludgeoning weapon, make sure you don't forget yours (though your's will be mental). BE PREPARED FOR MOST SITUATIONS!!! Don't hinder yourself by getting too focused on one thing or another.

Third: Psicrystals. While they are nice, and give you some abilities to boot, I have never been too keen on them since you have to burn feats to get them. But that is my personal preference, and by no means the end of the discussion about it.

Fourth: Prestige Classes. As with any caster/manifester, taking prestige classes is always a hard decision because if you choose wrong you will be gimping your character's power/pp progression too much. As a manifester, having powers, the ability to pump more pp into a power (based on manifester level), and more pp per day is your bread and butter. Be very careful if you go the PrC route to make sure you don't hinder yourself too bad in the long run.

Lastly: one of my favorite combinations -- (psionic class) 5 / metamind 10. I know this is a possible broken combination, but only if you choose to play it that way. And it gives you some fun abilities. Now, I know this breaks my fourth comment above (as you only get 5/10 manifester level progression), and you don't get the full brunt of its power until 10th level, but I still like the combination. The 10th level power is how you can break it if you choose to, but not if you don't want to. The combination: 10th level power called Font of Power gives you unlimited power points for 1 minute (10 rounds). With the use of the power Temporal Reiteration (Complete Psionic), any effect that is ongoing on you lasts another round. With continued use of TR, the FoP effect would go on indefinitely, but you could end it by choosing not to use TR. So if you go into a major fight against the BBEG and are afraid of running out of pp, pop the power, use TR, and blast away to your hearts content without fear. Then when you are done fighting, drop the power and you won't overshadow the rest of the party. If you want to break this (and no, I don't recommend it), you can use the Schism power (Expanded Psionics Handbook) to give yourself a "second" mind, and have it manifest TR for you indefinitely. Then the FoP would never run out, and you are THE unstoppable force of the world. Throw on a power stone of Timeless Body, and no one can hurt you, no one can affect you with spells or powers, and you never run out of pp. Again, I DON'T RECOMMEND THIS, but the possibility is there for power gamers.

If you want more specific recommendations, I can do that, but I thought a general posting would be better to start with.

Good luck, and good hunting!

lord_khaine
2008-10-06, 04:03 AM
personaly i would warn you against the metamind, its the incarnation of design fail.
its a class designet around the idea of sacrificing caster levels for more pp, but even with all the fancy powers it get, then it still lose more pp from the lost caster levels, than it gains from its abilities.

even the old trick with font of power, and temporal recitation doesnt save it in my book, it only upgrade it to barely playable by level 15, in my book.

JMobius
2008-10-06, 11:40 AM
Out of curiosity, I read in another thread that there are something like fifty different psionic PrCs total. I've only got the XPH and CP. Are there any others worth looking at or getting?

FMArthur
2008-10-06, 07:45 PM
I didn't even know psionics existed outside of those two books. :smalleek:

Starbuck_II
2008-10-06, 07:47 PM
Out of curiosity, I read in another thread that there are something like fifty different psionic PrCs total. I've only got the XPH and CP. Are there any others worth looking at or getting?

Secrets of Sarlonas (Ebberon Book)
Lords of Madness has 2 I think
I'm not sure where they all are.

sonofzeal
2008-10-06, 09:06 PM
Out of curiosity, I read in another thread that there are something like fifty different psionic PrCs total. I've only got the XPH and CP. Are there any others worth looking at or getting?
Magic of Incarnum has a couple, I believe.