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BardicDuelist
2008-10-02, 05:52 PM
Githyanki Swordmage
Class Features: Swordbond, Aegis of Shielding, Swordmage Warding
Skills: Arcana, Athletics, Insight, Intimidate
Feats: 1-Intelligent Blademaster 2-Student of Swordmagic 4-Retributive Shield 6-Arcane Initiate (Scorching Burst) 8-Jack of All Trades 10-Armor Proficiency (Hide)
11-Double Aegis (Retrain at 21) 12-Armor Specialization Hide 14-Solid Sound 16- 18- 20-
21-Total Aegis 22- 24- 26- 28- 30-
At-Will: Booming Blade, Sword Burst
Encounter: 1-Chilling Blow 3-Transposing Lunge 7-Flamewall Strike
13-Seed of Fire 17-Spidersilk Slash
23-Meteor Strike 27-Malestrom Blade
Daily: 1-Whirling Blade/Frost Backlash 5-Lingering Lightning/Elemental Foible 9-Glamor Blade/Beacon Blade
15-Free the Storm Within/Inferno’s Sword 19-Lightning Rod/Hell’s Own Blade
25-Bounding Lightning/Quicksilver Blade 29-Vorpal Doom/Obliterating Blaze
Utility: 2-Dimensional Warp 6-Silversteel Veil 10-Impenetrable Warding 16-Elemental Protection 22-Giant’s Might

(Note: I will see if a DM will let me learn another skill on the wizard class list instead of Arcana)

I'm looking for help filling in my feats, probably going into Blood Mage then Demigod. If I take Adept Power, I'd want to take Expanded Spellbook to gain the extra option. I suppose that I'm looking for attack spells that target Will by multi-classing.

I'm trying to fill a defender/controller role. My party will have a defender, but not a Wizard.

Also, please critique what is currently here as well.

BardicDuelist
2008-10-02, 07:08 PM
Come on, I know 4e isn't that popular here, but no replies?

Oracle_Hunter
2008-10-02, 07:14 PM
:confused:

Patience, grasshopper. I'm sure someone with the FRPG will be along in time - it's only been an hour.

Mando Knight
2008-10-02, 07:37 PM
If you're going for vs. Will Wizard powers, I'd recommend that you pick up Astral Fire and/or Dark Fury.

The main vs. Will Wizard spells are either the "Prismatic *" spells, which all deal Radiant (Prismatic Burst) or Fire damage (Prismatic Spray or Beams; unfortunately, only if the attack hits the enemy's Reflex...), or the high (really high, a 25 daily, a 27 encounter, and a 29 daily) Psychic powers: Maze, Confusion, and Legion's Hold.

Dark Fury also synchs with Blood Mage abilities, and Astral Fire goes with your apparent penchant for Fire magic.

Since you're not going for the Spiral Tower paragon path, might I suggest Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword)? Several of the Swordmage powers you want have the Weapon keyword (as well as deal x[W] damage), so a larger sword is beneficial.

BardicDuelist
2008-10-02, 07:47 PM
If you're going for vs. Will Wizard powers, I'd recommend that you pick up Astral Fire and/or Dark Fury.

The main vs. Will Wizard spells are either the "Prismatic *" spells, which all deal Radiant (Prismatic Burst) or Fire damage (Prismatic Spray or Beams; unfortunately, only if the attack hits the enemy's Reflex...), or the high (really high, a 25 daily, a 27 encounter, and a 29 daily) Psychic powers: Maze, Confusion, and Legion's Hold.

Dark Fury also synchs with Blood Mage abilities, and Astral Fire goes with your apparent penchant for Fire magic.

Since you're not going for the Spiral Tower paragon path, might I suggest Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword)? Several of the Swordmage powers you want have the Weapon keyword (as well as deal x[W] damage), so a larger sword is beneficial.

Actually, I prefer to avoid fire spells, but the effects seem much better (more versatile, better control oriented effects). I didn't know if the feat was worth it (and it seems like I'm short on feats for heroic tear until late into it).

Kurald Galain
2008-10-03, 04:30 AM
Actually, I prefer to avoid fire spells, but the effects seem much better (more versatile, better control oriented effects). I didn't know if the feat was worth it (and it seems like I'm short on feats for heroic tear until late into it).

It's not worth it. You're a defender/controller, so a +1 to damage shouldn't be high on your list of priorities. I'm not sure Expanded Spellbook, or the feat that gives the swordmage a spellbook, are all that great either. I think you'll want a power swap feat or two, though; wizard has some good powers that synergize with swordmage.

Excession
2008-10-03, 05:19 AM
Thunderwave may be a better Wizard multiclass spell than Scorching Burst. It's a close blast, so doesn't provoke opportunity attacks, and the knockback (make sure you have at least 12 Wis) is great for messing with the enemies' front line.

You will likely have an 8 in Cha; leave Intimidate someone else. Perhaps pick up history if nobody else is, but I guess its usefulness depends on your game.

Are you sure about Chilling Blow? It's really quite bad. Maybe replace with Flame Cyclone; a little extra reach (blast vs. burst) and kick compared to sword burst.

Toughness is a good feat, I'd pick it up early, probably instead of Student of Swordmagic. Keep Durable as an option if you find yourself running low on surges.

Improved Initiative is great for controllers and good for defenders. Arriving first is a great way to control a fight.

AstralFire
2008-10-03, 08:23 AM
If you're going for vs. Will Wizard powers, I'd recommend that you pick up Astral Fire

I am not some hussy you can just 'pick up'.

Hmph!

JBento
2008-10-03, 09:20 AM
I am not some hussy you can just 'pick up'.

Hmph!

Indeed. He needs an ability score of 13 to do so, does he not? I'm AFB right now, but it's what, Con?

It's like... you're a hussy that needs a lot of effort to pick up :smallbiggrin::smallwink:

AstralFire
2008-10-03, 09:59 AM
I'm high maintenance. They have to be able to keep up with me.

The Mormegil
2008-10-03, 10:43 AM
I think that due to this lack of interest in the new edition in these parts, I might as well talk as answerer and not as asker for once... (though I don't even know if "answerer" exists :smallredface:)

Good.


Githyanki Swordmage
Class Features: Swordbond, Aegis of Shielding, Swordmage Warding
Skills: Arcana, Athletics, Insight, Intimidate
Feats: 1-Intelligent Blademaster 2-Student of Swordmagic 4-Retributive Shield 6-Arcane Initiate (Scorching Burst) 8-Jack of All Trades 10-Armor Proficiency (Hide)
11-Double Aegis (Retrain at 21) 12-Armor Specialization Hide 14-Solid Sound 16- 18- 20-
21-Total Aegis 22- 24- 26- 28- 30-
At-Will: Booming Blade, Sword Burst
Encounter: 1-Chilling Blow 3-Transposing Lunge 7-Flamewall Strike
13-Seed of Fire 17-Spidersilk Slash
23-Meteor Strike 27-Malestrom Blade
Daily: 1-Whirling Blade/Frost Backlash 5-Lingering Lightning/Elemental Foible 9-Glamor Blade/Beacon Blade
15-Free the Storm Within/Inferno’s Sword 19-Lightning Rod/Hell’s Own Blade
25-Bounding Lightning/Quicksilver Blade 29-Vorpal Doom/Obliterating Blaze
Utility: 2-Dimensional Warp 6-Silversteel Veil 10-Impenetrable Warding 16-Elemental Protection 22-Giant’s Might

(Note: I will see if a DM will let me learn another skill on the wizard class list instead of Arcana)

I'm looking for help filling in my feats, probably going into Blood Mage then Demigod. If I take Adept Power, I'd want to take Expanded Spellbook to gain the extra option. I suppose that I'm looking for attack spells that target Will by multi-classing.

I'm trying to fill a defender/controller role. My party will have a defender, but not a Wizard.

Also, please critique what is currently here as well.

I take it you're starting at lvl 1, right?
Your ability scores? If you need help on them, using 22 pt. buy, I like:

Str 13
Con 16
Dex 13
Int 18
Wis 12
Cha 8

If you roll, take at least 14 Con and 13 Str (counting racials), max ou Int, then hope for a good 4th stat in Dex.


So, where's Hide Proficiency? It's your first level feat, period. It's even greater then Intelligent Blademaster (which is your lvl 2, btw). You don't want Student of Swordmagic (bad feat, you havn't got that many daily good spells). You also prefer not to take Retributive Shield so soon, since you're not attacking your mark (leave it be, it's got -2 to hit and -8 to damage, it's worthless bothering, best take on another one). It's a good feat, but I prefer Toughness. Or Durable, though Shielding's Con is good enough to nnot bother. Also... you're really sure about JoAT? I guess it's okay if you use skills that much... suggest taking Acolyte Power, btw, since utilities like Blur are made for you.
You retrain a feat at level 11 for Dual Aegis if you want it, but it's Hide Spec you're taking first. Priority goes to survivability. Then you need to take Solid Sound (good, in any way you put it). Arcane Reach, if you can afford it (with my stats, you won't until lvl 21). Maybe even Great For and lightning Ref (NOT Iron Will, not worth mending a defense you'll have low anyways, if they're targeting Will, Sword Burst them to take a +2).
Don't take Expanded Spellbook, but take Adept's Power (your dailies are not that good, except maybe for Glamor Blade, which may even be broken, as it is). Don't take Novice Power, your encounters are better than a wizard's.

Utility powers are not really good... take Eldritch Speed, Armanthor's Step and Sudden Escape instead of your choices (Sudden Escape --> Greater Invisibility if you take the feat...).

Kurald Galain
2008-10-03, 11:12 AM
So, where's Hide Proficiency? It's your first level feat, period. It's even greater then Intelligent Blademaster

Heh. No. Bonuses to hit are way more important than adding one to your armor class.

NPCMook
2008-10-03, 01:54 PM
Intelligent Blademaster only works for Basic Melee attacks, so its great for AoO's or Commander's Strike.

As some of them mentioned you should take Armor Proficiency: Hide at level 1, I would also take Acolyte Power and get the Wizard's Blur or Mirror Images Utilities. A lot of people tend to over look the awesomeness of Mounted Combat, I would recommend this and going through the DMG to read the rules, along with the MM to see what Monsters use the "Mount" Keyword, never look a gift horse in the mouth... or a Bladespider:smallamused:. Retributive Shielding, if you are continuously having to activate this ability, you aren't doing your job, or the DM isn't playing the marked monsters correctly. What would you retrain Double Aegis to at 21? This of course, means you'd lose your Prerequisites to take Total Aegis.

@Excession: Thunderwave is indeed a good choice, except its better to have 14 wisdom since this would allow you to push them 2 Squares, and any that are marked will now have to Provoke an AoO to get back to you. Of course taking AoE powers that hit every creature in the burst/blast take War Wizardry in case any friendlies get in the way. Also with the higher Wisdom, it would now be better to take the Wandering Swordmage Paragon Path, one of its features allows you to add your wisdom modifier to your Aegis Burst.

@Mando Knight: :smallbiggrin: Bastard Sword + Vorpal Doom = Awesome enough said.

Mando Knight
2008-10-03, 02:23 PM
Heh. No. Bonuses to hit are way more important than adding one to your armor class.

More important than adding 1 to your armor class, which is already about as high as a Paladin in Full Plate with a Heavy Shield.

Seriously, Intelligent Blademaster is far more important than Hide armor. Not to mention that magic Leather and Cloth armors tend to have enchantments that aid arcane powers...

Also, NPCMook: What's funny is that Total Aegis has no prerequisites other than level 21 Swordmage. None. That's why he wants to retrain Double Aegis: so he can have Total Aegis without that peskily redundant Double Aegis. (unless, of course, WotC already errata'd both Distant Swordbond and Total Aegis...)

EDIT: Astral Fire--Prerequisites: Dex 13, Cha 13.

Apparently you have to be both good looking and flexible to pick him up.:smallwink:

AstralFire
2008-10-03, 02:28 PM
I think those are reasonable requirements.

Excession
2008-10-03, 03:28 PM
@Excession: Thunderwave is indeed a good choice, except its better to have 14 wisdom since this would allow you to push them 2 Squares, and any that are marked will now have to Provoke an AoO to get back to you.

Hm, I must be missing something, which rule are you using to get the Opportunity Attack?

BardicDuelist
2008-10-03, 03:51 PM
...
I take it you're starting at lvl 1, right?
Your ability scores? If you need help on them, using 22 pt. buy, I like:

Str 13
Con 16
Dex 13
Int 18
Wis 12
Cha 8

If you roll, take at least 14 Con and 13 Str (counting racials), max ou Int, then hope for a good 4th stat in Dex.

Thanks, I'm bad with Point Buy.



So, where's Hide Proficiency? It's your first level feat, period. It's even greater then Intelligent Blademaster (which is your lvl 2, btw).

I disagree here. I'd take IB at level 1 and SoS at level two (thanks to everyone who suggested that).


You don't want Student of Swordmagic (bad feat, you havn't got that many daily good spells). You also prefer not to take Retributive Shield so soon, since you're not attacking your mark (leave it be, it's got -2 to hit and -8 to damage, it's worthless bothering, best take on another one).

Okay. I agree.


It's a good feat, but I prefer Toughness. Or Durable, though Shielding's Con is good enough to nnot bother. Also... you're really sure about JoAT? I guess it's okay if you use skills that much... suggest taking Acolyte Power, btw, since utilities like Blur are made for you.

My DM makes us roll random skill checks all the time, so I went for JoAT.


You retrain a feat at level 11 for Dual Aegis if you want it, but it's Hide Spec you're taking first. Priority goes to survivability. Then you need to take Solid Sound (good, in any way you put it). Arcane Reach, if you can afford it (with my stats, you won't until lvl 21). Maybe even Great For and lightning Ref (NOT Iron Will, not worth mending a defense you'll have low anyways, if they're targeting Will, Sword Burst them to take a +2).

Interesting advice. Is there a way to get AR earlier by not pumping Con quite as much? I don't know if it's worth it. Solid Sound does look better than IR, so I'll go with that.


Don't take Expanded Spellbook, but take Adept's Power (your dailies are not that good, except maybe for Glamor Blade, which may even be broken, as it is). Don't take Novice Power, your encounters are better than a wizard's.

Utility powers are not really good... take Eldritch Speed, Armanthor's Step and Sudden Escape instead of your choices (Sudden Escape --> Greater Invisibility if you take the feat...).

Yeah, I didn't really like Novice Power. I'll look at my Utilities again.

Thanks (and thanks to everyone else too). Any other advice is still appreciated.

Kurald Galain
2008-10-03, 04:52 PM
As some of them mentioned you should take Armor Proficiency: Hide at level 1, I would also take Acolyte Power and get the Wizard's Blur or Mirror Images Utilities.
Blur I can understand, but Mirror Image is pretty sucky as powers come. Oh and yeah, thunderwave is awesome.

NPCMook
2008-10-03, 04:54 PM
Hm, I must be missing something, which rule are you using to get the Opportunity Attack?

Pushing them one square means they can just shift back into hand to hand without provoking the AoO

EDIT: NVM I'm I haven't played in a couple of weeks and didn't remember AoO correctly, however Pushing 2 squares does increase the chances for people to make AoOs

Mando Knight
2008-10-03, 05:14 PM
Interesting advice. Is there a way to get AR earlier by not pumping Con quite as much? I don't know if it's worth it. Solid Sound does look better than IR, so I'll go with that.

Yes. You can increase your Dex (and Cha, if you want the Astral Fire feat), drop down the Con a bit (your AC comes from your Int and Swordmage Warding--18 Int, Leather, and a sword in one hand gives you 19 AC, and 20 Int gives you an AC higher than many Paladins, and a nasty attack bonus), boost the Dex to 14 and the Cha to 12 or 13 (if you want Astral Fire... you can afford a slightly lower Cha if you're willing to put some points into it at level up) and drop the Con down to 12 or 13. (13 will still get you Hide armor in Heroic, though you'll need to knock it up to 14 before Paragon if you want to spend a feat on Armor Spec Hide, and you'll have to settle with a lower Cha or Dex).

Armor Proficiency (Hide) is almost worthless for a Swordmage until Paragon, when it and Armor Specialization (Hide) are needed to stay ahead of a Paladin's AC. (Unless you take the paragon path that enhances your Swordmage Warding, then it's useful, just not almost necessary.)

Your survivability is important, but it's more important to realize what that entails. Your Intelligence will keep you from getting hit very often in melee, so you need Con (or Str) and Wis/Cha mostly for their bonuses in the other defenses.

You've got a lot of fire powers, so I'd recommend getting the Astral Fire feat early, and pick up the Irresistible Flame feat in Epic. (Nearly negates most Fire resistances)

Kurald Galain
2008-10-03, 06:08 PM
Your survivability is important, but it's more important to realize what that entails.

Precisely. If the 3E monk has taught us anything, it's that being able to survive is not a useful contribution to the party unless you can also take down the enemies (thankfully, unlike the monk, the swordmage is quite capable of doing so).