Realism Question

[vartan]

I think that 4e lacks some details about realism (which I can appreciate in a game that is not trying to simulate life EDIT: this is beside the pt.), but I need a decent opinion on the following question:

Would two hobgoblins assumed to have a passive 13 perception hear combat taking place 50 feet away from them- around a corner, down a corridor, and on the other side of a wooden door with brass trappings?

Sorry if it seems like a stupid question

[RebelRogue]

If the DC to hear the event (with all appropriate modifiers) is 13 or less, then yes. Is this a trick question? :smalltongue:

Ah: I think I missed that the specific event was "combat"... RAW, the DC to hear combat is 0. Relevant modifiers are: through a door (+5) and more than 10 squares away (+2) for a total of DC 7, so yes I guess so. Even if you rule the door to make things a little harder to hear, they should notice.

[vartan]

yeah, but should I consider the usual penalties and modifiers from 3.x for listen as represenative of perception in 4e?

really I'm just asking for a common sense answer I guess

[RebelRogue]

yeah, but should I consider the usual penalties and modifiers from 3.x for listen as represenative of perception in 4e?

really I'm just asking for a common sense answer I guess
The penalties for 4th ed are listen on page 187 in the PHB. Also, I think it's reasonable from a common sense perspective that you should notice combat in that situation.

[TwystidMynd]

I can hear people talking on the phone 50 feet away, on the other side of a cubicle wall. They're not talking loudly, and I can't understand what they're saying, but I can hear them talking.

I imagine that if they were screaming and banging large metal items against each other, I'd hear them very clearly, even on the other side of a large wooden door.

So yeah, I agree that a DC 7 is fairly realistic, and that most people could passively hear a battle in that situation.

[Person_Man]

As a DM, you shouldn't feel the need to justify your decisions using they written game physics. They only need to be justified from a plot and "reality" perspective. If something serves the purpose of the story and would be accepted by a reasonable person, you can do it.

For example, let's say that two hobgoblins are sitting at the next table in a loud bar. The PCs discuss their quest. The hobgoblins show up to the hidden crypt first, and steal the treasure. The PCs find clues, track them down, and disable them. The PCs question them - how did you find out where we were going? Turns out that one of the hobgoblins is deaf and knows how to read lips, or they come from a village of hobgoblins that have somehow gained telepathy over the past generation because of something in the water of their valley (plot hook), or one of them was just born with really good hearing.

You don't need to give them a custom Ring of Perception +5, or make one of them 20th level or have ridiculous Wisdom so that the check makes sense. You're the DM. Just do what works, create an in game rationale, and be sure that the PCs don't feel like they're being cheated.

[Spiryt]

Combat from 15 meters? It totally depends of the scale and type of the combat, but I would say that hell yes.

But if combatants were using only wooden clubs against some padded armors, with no shout of whatever, then maybe not :smallwink:

[Suzuro]

Well, my gut is telling me 'yes.' But my mind is telling me 'This require SCIENCE!'

-Suzuro

[Matthew]

You are supposed to decide these things for yourself using the rules as guidelines. As for how I would rule, I would certainly allow Hobgoblins with perception 13 to hear sounds of combat fifty feet away and through a door in D20/4e.

[Fishy]

That depends. Would the sudden addition of two more hobgoblins make the encounter difficult to the point of being unfun?

If not, then yes, of course they can hear it. If so, then- what do you know, they were actually on guard duty in another room. Or were drunk. Or had their iPods on too loud.

[monty]

Well, my gut is telling me 'yes.' But my mind is telling me 'This require SCIENCE!'

-Suzuro

Please, think of the catgirls...


As for the original question, just use your common sense. Would you be able to hear combat from 50 feet away (consider that's only about 8-10 times your body length) through a single door? Probably, unless your hearing is terrible, or there's another distraction.

[MartinHarper]

It depends if the hobgoblins are being very quiet and listening, or whether they're loudly making fart jokes.

[JaxGaret]

That depends. Would the sudden addition of two more hobgoblins make the encounter difficult to the point of being unfun?

If not, then yes, of course they can hear it. If so, then- what do you know, they were actually on guard duty in another room. Or were drunk. Or had their iPods on too loud.

Fishy, you wouldn't perchance be a good DM, now would you? :smallsmile:


As to the OP question: yes, that's certainly within the realm of "realism". Though I must of course remind everyone that no edition of D&D is an accurate simulator of reality.

[Satyr]

The question is not if this would be realistic - the question is, is it believable?
Only because it is fantasy, it does not mean that basic common sense does not ned to be applied. Fantasy does not includethe licence to insult other people's intelligence.
If you come to the situation where your players recognize that their opponents are either complete idiots or blind and deaf, you have killed a lot of potential drama and suspense. You don't want to sacrifice suspense for 'a more balanced encounter'.

If you have a plot that only works when all participants are behaving as stupid as possible, than you have a great example of a bad plot.

[Calinero]

I think it is totally justifiable for the two hobgoblins to hear the combat. Statistics and DC's aside, it just makes sense that you would hear combat. People tend to forget it, but combat is loud. Clap your hands together. Do it. Pretty loud, right? Now, imagine if both of your hands had been made of metal, and you were trying to kill someone with them. Then add a few screams of pain, explosions from spells, and you're going to be heard.