PDA

View Full Version : Broken Duskblade Build, anyone?



ColonelFuster
2008-10-05, 12:28 PM
So, my DM recently said that he allows the Book of Exalted deeds. I did not know that during character creation, but now that I do, I would like to capatalize on the supposed broken-ness of it.

I am shifting this thread to discuss how I can break a Tank on the side of Evil. Use the supposed broken-ness of the Book of Vile Darkness to help me make a Tank that will drive my DM crazy.


Since my group has no offensive caster, and no tank, I shall attempt a Duskblade when my swashbuckler inevitably dies. The idea here is simple- break the class. Do what you must, use what books you must, but give me some idea of how to break my Duskblade.

Level 3. No LA +2< races, nothing from quote-on-quote obscure sourcebooks. Just make it so I can kill anything in combat in a few hits, and i'll be happy.

A note about the campaign- we're probably going to be facing mostly armored guys, so anything involving breaking enemies' AC would be nice.

I know you can do it guys... and no need to plan it out past 6th level, I can take it from there.

The Glyphstone
2008-10-05, 12:35 PM
the book itself isn't that great. It's mainly two items (the Starmantle Cloak and Amulet of Divine Retribution) along with a couple of feats that are overpowered.

Including Vow of Poverty. Take a word of advice from ol' Ackbar on this one.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-10-05, 01:12 PM
Yeah, the book isn't broken. The issues really are just a few of the magic items and spells. The feats are mostly weak to mediocre (VoP types run out of useful Exalted feats to take really fast), with few worth taking; the vows are decent but very limiting (VoP is overpowered in any campaign where you get significantly less than WBL of magic items etc., but that's a no-brainer); and the prestige classes are mostly decent to unappealing.

That's rules-wise, though.

What a lot of people consider to break the game - the setting, specifically - are the sometimes silly views on D&D morality expressed in the book. I find most of it pretty useful (I love that whole "it's not actually very good to go around murdering things for their loot" touch), but alignment is probably the single most disagreed-upon area of D&D.

ColonelFuster
2008-10-05, 01:14 PM
I see. Well, I guess I should chance the name of the thread now... because if he's welcoming BoED, he's probably allowing BOVD....

FinalJustice
2008-10-05, 01:19 PM
In that case, forget BoED or tanking, pick Mindrape (BoVD). Mindrape is just like violence or pizza, if it doesn't solve a problem, you just don't have enough of it going on. :smallbiggrin:

No, seriously, if you are going to tank, consider the Amulet of Retribution. +2 Sacred AC and splitting the damage with your agressor is the dream of every tank. The fact that the aggressor gets the extra point of damage in case of an odd number just adds insult to the injury.

ColonelFuster
2008-10-05, 01:24 PM
Alright, you've sold me on the amulet... but how much is it?

FinalJustice
2008-10-05, 01:37 PM
Next time, I promise I will look at the level before suggesting. It costs 56.000po, much more than you'll can afford for the next 10 or 13 levels. Sorry about that.=/

ColonelFuster
2008-10-05, 01:38 PM
'sokay.
Evil is the easy path to power, right? So level shouldn't matter... something tells me that i'll find plently of ways to break a duskblade once I find the darn book....

streakster
2008-10-05, 01:55 PM
Take a look at Thrall of Jubilex or Disciple of Dispater.

I know that Jubilex offered summonable oozes and at-will Polymorph, as well as ooze immunities.

ColonelFuster
2008-10-05, 02:33 PM
Hm... Disciple of Asmodeus looks juicy. But maybe I should just stick with a pure duskblade, they seem powerful enough. Focus on Touch attack spells and all that, since my DM is obsessed with heavily armored troops..

mabriss lethe
2008-10-05, 04:14 PM
curse spewing weapons are really nice for a +1 enchantment.

taking all 3 bind vestige feats for nonbinders in ToM would net you access to Heavy magic which would boost the save DC on every single magic item in your possession. That probably isn't the best strategy, but you could accomplish the same (and better) with three levels of binder and one feat. (binders make for some rather entertaining tanking btw.)

ColonelFuster
2008-10-05, 07:10 PM
So here's what i'm thinking.
Good ranks in Knowledge(nobility and royalty) because that will inevitably save my ass in this campaign.
Get Battle Casting as my third level feat, making me fully armored next level.
Here's the rub: what should I do first level? Not just that, but should I be a certain race to open up feat possibilities?

Quirinus_Obsidian
2008-10-05, 07:25 PM
Drop in a couple Warblade levels (INT to damage when executing a strike) and take Jade Phoenix Mage and the Arcane Strike feat. You can sack up to 3 spells/round, but be able to do possibly hundreds of damage in that round.

ColonelFuster
2008-10-05, 07:30 PM
Wait, I found it. It's in CW.

I need 3rd lvl spells to get it. A duskblade dosen't get those until 9th level.

Okay, and our group dosen't have ToB or ToM, so i'm not sure if it's allowed.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-10-05, 10:54 PM
Retributive Amulet was reprinted in MiC, and the new version isn't even worth getting.

In the low levels, nothing beats Combat Reflexes and a reach weapon. Wear armor spikes so you'll still threaten adjacent squares. Plus that can fit into nearly any build, and the only thing you're stuck with for your career is the feat which isn't bad at all.

For a broken character at this level, I'd say make a Maenad (XPH) with the feat Mind Over Body (XPH). You'll need at least Con 17 starting out for this to work. Say your character has contracted the disease Festering Anger (BoVD) in the late evening 1000 days ago. Every day before going to bed you voluntarily fail the fortitude save for it, gaining a cumulative +2 Enhancement bonus to Str (currently +2000), and taking 1d3 points of Con damage. You Con won't fall below 14, so you'll automatically heal up to 3 points of Con by resting that night. Any class can accomplish this, though Duskblade is good due to having good Fort and Will saves. You can frequently resist the urge to attack whatever you're angry at and in case you ever miss a night's rest you'll want to make that Fort save the next evening. Get a few Potions of Lesser Restoration for just in case you miss a night's rest, fail the next Fort save, and would have a Con lower than 14 by the time you do rest.

Duskblade isn't much of an offensive caster at all. When you first get 2nd level spells, a primary caster would have 3rd. When you first get 3rd level spells, a primary caster would have 5th. You first get 4th level spells when a primary caster would get 7th. By the time you finally get 5th level spells, an actual spellcaster will have 9th level spells. Focus on melee combat, and use your spells to solve any problems that your sword won't.

ScionofImperius
2008-10-08, 02:41 AM
I am playing a duskblade, and since i dont have the books in front of me maybe someone else can help, but there is a weapon crystal (arcane steel) that adds to spell dc +to hit and damage when channeling spells, an enchantment that automatically empowers vampiric touch (nice with whirling) and the bracers of the blast barrier. using only those three things i slowly drove my dm insane, to the point where he tries to kill me every session.

Nerd-o-rama
2008-10-08, 03:13 AM
A good build for Duskblade is using Changeling Recaster (Races of Eberron) as a Prestige Class. Gets you a ton of free Metamagic (as in, doesn't require additional time to cast) and two extra spells known from any list (Polymorph!). It requires you to play a Changeling (Eberron Campaign Setting) and loses you a caster level (hurts) and a couple of BAB (meh). This build also gives you the option of picking up a couple of levels of Warshaper for a nice Str bonus and some natural weapons (such as an arbitrary number of tentacles to Full-Attack Arcane Channel with). Duskblade 13/Recaster 4/Warshaper 3 is where I plan to take my current character using this.

If you're not willing to pay those restrictions, I recommend taking Arcane Preparation and some damage-boosting metamagics (Quicken, Maximize, Empower) to go with it. Spells are your bread and butter for damage, and damage is what you do, so you want to be able to pump their output as much as possible. Smiting Spell [Metamagic] (PHB2) also allows you to stack another spell on your sword, should you so choose. If you can somehow get to 16 Wisdom, Arcane Disciple (Complete Divine) can add some awesome spells to your list, from a Cleric domain of your choice. Other than that, pick a standard melee feat chain and go with it. Power Attack/Leap Attack (PHB2) (though note that by RAW you can't channel on a charge), Improved Trip, take your pick.

I'd recommend against Battle Caster and just suck up the lower AC until you can afford Mithral Full Plate; you might as well use such at higher levels.


EDIT: Oh yes, Arcane Steel weapon crystals and Bloodstone weapon ehancement; great for pumping damage.

weenie
2008-10-08, 03:24 AM
Meh, just get a spell storing weapon and try to get spells like Combust and if you really want it broken, Shivering touch and Wraithstrike via the Extra spell feat. If your Dm lets you, that is. That is the quickest way to breaking a Duskblade.

Darrin
2008-10-08, 09:04 AM
Wait, I found it. It's in CW.

I need 3rd lvl spells to get it. A duskblade dosen't get those until 9th level.


You can get 3rd level spells a little earlier with three feats: Earth Sense, Earth Spell, and Heighten Spell. This heightens your 2nd level spells up to 3rd. Very costly, feat-wise, however... most gish builds just can't spend three feats on something they would only ever use to get into a PrC.

However, with a little bardic music (via Virtuoso or Warrior Skald) and a lot of skill-wrangling, you can get into Sublime Chord, which gives you 9th level spells and essentially turns you into a sorcerer. With great BAB, great HPs, armored casting, quick casting, and arcane channeling. If you really want broken... did I mention 9th level spells?

Another fun build:

Duskblade 5/Warblade 1/Jade Phoenix Mage 10/<something> 4

Nerd-o-rama
2008-10-08, 09:21 AM
I just looked at the Jade Phoenix Mage build.

Dammit, people, you're making me want to abandon my precious Recaster/Warshaper hax. It's especially well-suited to campaigns focusing on one-on-one combat as opposed to enemy swarms (where you would want to have Full-Attack Arcane Channel rather than Martial Strikes), and hey, guess how the campaign I'm playing a DBlade in has gone so far...

Epinephrine
2008-10-08, 09:28 AM
Meh, just get a spell storing weapon and try to get spells like Combust and if you really want it broken, Shivering touch and Wraithstrike via the Extra spell feat. If your Dm lets you, that is. That is the quickest way to breaking a Duskblade.

Extra Spell only allows you to pick from spells on your spell list, though I suppose DMs may choose to allow it - but being broken dependent on the DM allowing you spells that you aren't meant to be able to have doesn't seem surprising.



Q: Can you take spells from spell lists other than your own with the Extra Spell feat (Complete Arcane p79)?

A: The Extra Spell feat allows you to choose a new spell, but it does not remove the restrictions of how you would normally pick your spells—so they must be picked from your own spell list.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ask/20080430a

Siddsartre
2008-10-08, 01:13 PM
an enchantment that automatically empowers vampiric touch

I'm playing a duskblade, and I prestiged into Green Star Adept. I love the class, but in many ways, the loss of HP scares me. That's why I picked up Vampiric Touch as a 3rd level. With haste, I can maximize that and channel it through a full attack, picking up quite a bit of temporary hit points when the going gets tough. What's the enchantment that'll let me do it better? An empowered and maximized vampiric touch would be super-nice for me.

Temp.
2008-10-08, 05:36 PM
Here's the rub: what should I do first level? Not just that, but should I be a certain race to open up feat possibilities? I like Combat Expertise/Improved Trip. Remember that Arcane Channeling uses any melee attack and that Trip attempts are melee attacks. I like human for a race nine times out of ten. I think this is one of those nine times.

FAQ quoteI don't put much stock in those Q&A responses. Later equivalent feats (Expanded Knowledge, Martial Study) explicitly state that the Powers/Maneuvers can be drawn from any class list and Extra Spell suffers from abiguous wording. This leads me to believe spells were intended to be accessible from other spell lists.


I'm playing a duskblade, and I prestiged into Green Star Adept. I love the class, but in many ways, the loss of HP scares me. That's why I picked up Vampiric Touch as a 3rd level. With haste, I can maximize that and channel it through a full attack, picking up quite a bit of temporary hit points when the going gets tough. What's the enchantment that'll let me do it better? An empowered and maximized vampiric touch would be super-nice for me.
1. I'm not sure how you're using Haste to Maximize and Channel Vampiric Touch
2. The errata spells out that a single channeled spell can only affect any target once per channeling.
3. Crystals of Life-Drinking from the Magic Item Compendium let your melee attacks heal a bit of damage. Bloodstone Weapons (+1 Bonus) store and Empower Vampiric Touch spells exclusively. They're also in the MIC. I don't know if either of these is what you're talking about.

Person_Man
2008-10-08, 11:29 PM
Duskblades are pretty weak. But here are some general tips:

Obtain Familiar (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=875062): Complete Arcane: Familiars can hold the charge of a spell. It stays with them until it hits, or until you cast another spell. Thus you can cast a spell before combat, your familiar attacks the enemy, and then you attack the same enemy.

Improved Familiar: Complete Warrior: OK, so your familiar shares your BAB and 1/2 your hitpoints, and he can hold and share spells. So you want him to be as potent as possible.

Arcane Strike (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2252831): Complete Warrior: I know you're only level 3 now, but eventually you must take this. It lets you go nova on your enemies.

Combat Reflexes + Reach Weapon + Armor Spikes + Stand Still (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Stand_Still): SRD: If your goal is simply lock down enemies and prevent them from getting to your friends, this is your best bet.

Grasping Pole: Book of Exalted Deeds: A poor man's version of Scorpion's Grasp (Sandstorm). This Exotic reach weapon does 1d4 points of non-lethal damage. If you hit a medium or small enemy, you get a free Grapple check. If that enemy doesn't have reach, he's basically boned, and can do nothing but try to escape every round, while you squeeze him and do damage, and your friends use their reach weapons. Very effective at low levels when your party is fighting small groups or individuals, and as a melee weapon, it can be used for channeling.

Net + Lasso: SRD and Book of Exalted Deeds: Each of these is a ranged touch attack (so don't even bother with Exotic proficiency). Each imposes movement penalties, and a -4 penalty to Dex. Penalties from different sources stack. So enemies with 8 Dex or less can easily be paralyzed. Again, this only works against medium or smaller enemies. But its a good, cheap option to have in your pocket for the right situation.

Wands: Don't forget, you can use any wand that's on your spell list, even if you don't currently know the spell.

AstralFire
2008-10-08, 11:30 PM
Very clever use of the grasping pole, Pers.

Nerd-o-rama
2008-10-10, 04:17 AM
Can you cast a spell while you're grappling someone with a grasping pole? You can't normally in a grapple (without Still Spell or otherwise lack of a somatic component), but if you're using a weapon to grapple them, are you considered grappled yourself?

Person_Man
2008-10-10, 09:16 AM
Can you cast a spell while you're grappling someone with a grasping pole? You can't normally in a grapple (without Still Spell or otherwise lack of a somatic component), but if you're using a weapon to grapple them, are you considered grappled yourself?

I think its a DM call. There are 5 weapons like this in 3.5 that I know about: Mancatcher (Complete Warrior), Pincer Staff (Underdark), Sharktooth Staff (Savage Species), Entangling Pole (BoED), and the aforementioned Grasping Pole. (FYI, I only suggested Grasping Pole because BoED was specifically mentioned. The Pincer Staff is your best option). None of them are particularly clear on this matter. Specifically, Grapple requires that you move into your enemy's square to maintain the Grapple. But that doesn't make any sense for someone using a reach weapon specifically designed to hold someone at a distance.

If I were the DM, I'd let a Duskblade channel through it. If I was the Duskblade and my DM didn't allow it, then I'd probably take the Somatic Weaponry feat from Complete Mage.

There are a bunch of different battlefield control options available though. Grapple, Trip, Bull Rush, Stand Still, Entangle, etc. Each has their own strengths and weaknesses. Any melee build should just pick one and invest a few feats in it, and then move on to another tactic.