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monty
2008-10-05, 05:03 PM
I'm working on a new character, and after racial adjustments it ended up with an intelligence score of 4, but a wisdom of 16 (and strength and constitution somewhere in the stratosphere). With the intelligence of a 3-year-old and the wisdom of a village elder, the usual "Thog smash!" doesn't seem like it would work. How would you go about roleplaying a character with those stats? If it matters, he's about halfway through Frenzied Berserker currently.

Flickerdart
2008-10-05, 05:11 PM
He's not going to be able to do MATH, but he knows the stove is hot.

kamikasei
2008-10-05, 05:11 PM
Perceptive, empathic, good at picking up subtle cues. Slow-witted, terrible at abstract thought or following a chain of reasoning.

Consider the skills: your character is naturally bad at Appraise, Craft, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Knowledge, Search, and Spellcraft. He has an aptitude for Heal, Listen, Profession, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival. So, he knows nothing about nothing but can pick up a practical skill and know when someone is lying to him. Puzzles, codes, and contraptions will baffle him but an injury or a set of tracks will seem clear.

Also: that intelligence score is pretty extreme, so take it further. He's basically incapable of learning something that's told him or explained to him; what he knows, he can't communicate to others. He simply knows things that he's experienced directly, or can guess at from intuition. It would probably be good for him to have a bond with someone who acts as his decision-maker, more or less, keeping him from being taken advantage of or getting himself into hot water.

afroakuma
2008-10-05, 05:12 PM
Play him as someone with artistic, social and common intelligence, who struggles with speech structure, literacy and memory. He's got a great grasp of causality, an eye for detail and a heaping helping of common sense, but has poor short-term and long-term memory, cannot read, struggles to communicate difficult concepts and is frustrated by number systems or abstract concept linkage.

monty
2008-10-05, 05:13 PM
Hmm, maybe I could have the party wizard use him as a mount...combine them into a super-creature!

Hal
2008-10-05, 05:16 PM
Elan. This guy is Elan.

Well, Elan has high Charisma, but I still think it fits.

Ashtar
2008-10-05, 05:22 PM
Well you got yourself a wild child. Self raised in nature (or raised by animals / nature spirits), never developed more intelligence than needed (animals survive well with 1 to 3), but is wise in the ways of the world. Observant, sensitive to his environment, able to learn repetitive skills as professions - just don't give him anything complex like Architect keep it simple like herdsman or hunter.

Mowgli? is that you?

Tsotha-lanti
2008-10-05, 05:22 PM
Caramon, but dumber.

Good practical cleverness, good at learning from experience, good at interpreting experiences. Like a really, really preternaturally smart dog. Take the smartest dog you can imagine, and then some.

No ability for logic, abstract reasoning, probably can't read, poor memory for abstract facts, book-learning, and the like. Can still learn patterns of behavior and the like well, but it all probably needs to be rehearsed and made practical.

monty
2008-10-05, 05:24 PM
Elan. This guy is Elan.

Well, Elan has high Charisma, but I still think it fits.

I dunno, I always thought Elan had pretty terrible wisdom.

:elan: Wait - are you saying that you are going to research the spell, "Haste" if I don't distract you anymore?



Mowgli? is that you?

Did Mowgli have 46 strength?

Spiryt
2008-10-05, 05:27 PM
Well you got yourself a wild child. Self raised in nature (or raised by animals / nature spirits), never developed more intelligence than needed (animals survive well with 1 to 3), but is wise in the ways of the world. Observant, sensitive to his environment, able to learn repetitive skills as professions - just don't give him anything complex like Architect keep it simple like herdsman or hunter.


Animal like guy is good idea.

Looks very smart in the ways of dealing with many things, solving quite complex problems, but that's very automatic, instincitve. Creative things are much more difficult for thing. Adapting to things like any advanced law or social forms is completely beyond his capabilities. Not to mention sience and connected things.



Did Mowgli have 46 strength?

Please tell me that's after Rage and Frenzy...

xPANCAKEx
2008-10-05, 06:10 PM
to quote the 3.0 PHB:

" a character with low intelligence mispronounces and misuses words, has trouble following directions, or fails to get the joke.

a character with a high wisdom may be sensible, serene, "in tune", alert, or centered.

A character with a high wis but low int may be aware, but simple."

sums it up nicely

monty
2008-10-05, 06:24 PM
Please tell me that's after Rage and Frenzy...

Well...not exactly...

My DM likes trying to kill us (the characters, that is). I think it's only fair.

FMArthur
2008-10-05, 06:30 PM
Well, you don't know a whole lot, but you're smart enough to know that keeping your mouth shut about things you don't understand is a pretty good idea.

averagejoe
2008-10-05, 06:35 PM
Hmm, maybe I could have the party wizard use him as a mount...combine them into a super-creature!

Who rules Barter Town?

You could also play him as some people write children; unintelligent, but they "just know" about certain things. For example, they might get a bad feeling from someone, but won't be able to articulate why.

Also: Mr. Tulip. (http://wiki.lspace.org/wiki/Mr._Tulip)

Raz_Fox
2008-10-05, 07:22 PM
Roleplay it the opposite of my life. :smallwink:

He doesn't know random facts, won't do well in school, doesn't quickly understand complicated things. He can't count higher than ten very well and doesn't understand science. He's not going to know that Blue Dragons breathe lightning, or that with Trolls you Kill Them With Fiiiiire.

However, he will know practical things, like how to set up a tent, cook a meal and how to lift things without straining your back. While the Wizard and the Psion talk about geeky math and weird facts about this country you've never heard of, you're telling people how to do real things, here-and-now things, things a Boy Scout is supposed to know. While the Bard is talking about all the ways you can detect a liar by his posture/eyes/face/fingers, you're getting a gut feeling that this guy isn't telling you everything.

AND 46 STRENGTH?!?!? :eek:

xPANCAKEx
2008-10-05, 07:42 PM
i for one would love to see the stat sheet on this beast

Devils_Advocate
2008-10-05, 09:19 PM
A few relevant aphorisms:

"Intelligence is knowing what to do. Wisdom is doing it." (Example! (http://angryflower.com/lordot.gif))

Or, similarly,

"Intelligence is knowing how to do lots of things. Wisdom is knowing when not to."

"Intelligence is how smart you are. Wisdom is how dumb you aren't."

sonofzeal
2008-10-05, 09:33 PM
Low-Int, High-Wis....

Good intuition, good "gut feelings", horrible at rationalizing them. Very aware of the world around him, on an almost subliminal level, so he'll pick up on stuff (especially interpersonal dynamics) without even realizing it most of the time.

Prometheus
2008-10-05, 09:57 PM
He knows whether or not something is a good idea or not, not by judging it's merits but judging people's reactions, their judgments, and factoring in what usually works and what usually doesn't.

On a similar vein, he is probably a good judge of character but relies to much on it. If he don't think someone is trustworthy, he will never accept any deal or negotiation from that person even if the smarter characters assure him that the plan is foolproof. The only evidence he has is the person, not the plan.

Lycan 01
2008-10-05, 09:57 PM
Basically Confucious, but unable to do simple math and spelling.

"The pen is mightier than the sword. Unfortunately, I do not know how to use either of them properly..."

sleepy
2008-10-05, 10:08 PM
Animal like guy is good idea.

Looks very smart in the ways of dealing with many things, solving quite complex problems, but that's very automatic, instincitve. Creative things are much more difficult for thing. Adapting to things like any advanced law or social forms is completely beyond his capabilities. Not to mention sience and connected things.

Please tell me that's after Rage and Frenzy...

This is what immediately occured to me. Your character is feral, almost wolflike. He doesn't anticipate chains of cause and effect, but he displays animal cunning. Think of a wolf.

"I don't know what that metal thing in the leaves is, but it smells like people so best avoid it." He won't step in a trap he found, but neither will he try to bait his enemies into it.

"I don't know where that man I'm trying to track is headed in the part of my woods between manhomes, but everyone drinks at the pool." He won't figure out someone's plans through detective work, but he can see the logistics they're facing from where they are.

"These pointed sticks with feathers on the other end are confounding, but that's a fresh deer skull. Prey won't be back here soon." He'll gather little about why an event he uncovers took place, but predicting its impact comes more naturally, particularly where it applies directly to him.

"I'm not sure why those men are sneaking around, but its best not to be seen by a stalking animal. Time to go." He might not understand exactly what he needs to beware of, but suspicious or conflicting signals will put him on the alert... and when he doesn't know how to remain safe, he understands his best bet is to leave safe.


Make his thoughts very observant, but keep them in the moment.
Have him trust his gut and distrust complication.
Have him boil problems down to things that directly concern him and apply general solutions that directly end those concerns.
Have him only basically contemplate others' reasons for their goals, but understand that being offered the seemingly better end of a bargain smells funny.

Above all remember that inside his head, things are composed only of uncomplicated facts and how much he likes them instinctively, even if deconstructing them leaves some constituent facts unlinked.

monty
2008-10-06, 12:04 AM
For another question, I'm terrible at coming up with character names. What's a good one for this beast?


However, he will know practical things, like how to set up a tent, cook a meal and how to lift things without straining your back.

I don't think straining his back would be much of a problem, seeing as how he can lift almost 10,000 pounds as a light load.


i for one would love to see the stat sheet on this beast

Very well. Again, my DM has a habit of killing us a lot, and he did OK this.

Feral Half-Minotaur Goliath
Scout 3 / Barbarian 2 / Fighter 2 / Frenzied Berserker 3
Str 46 (40) Dex 8 Con 32 (26) Int 4 Wis 16 Cha 12

Feats:
1 Multiattack
3 Destructive Rage
6 Intimidating Rage
9 Leap Attack
Fighter 1 Power Attack
Fighter 2 Cleave

Equipment:
Belt of Giant Strength +6
Amulet of Health +6
+3 Berserker Huge Greataxe
6000 gp (haven't decided what to do with this yet)
Maybe I should drop the axe to +2 and make it an intelligent item, just for fun...

Edit: Also, a speed of 70. That's pretty damn fast.

Chineselegolas
2008-10-06, 02:35 AM
I tend to play intelligence as "should I do it" and wisdom as "should I do it again"

Had a Monk with 8 int and 18 wisdom. Went and did some rather stupid things like running off into the snow alone, befriending vampires in the plane of undead...
But if they back fired he would remember and not make that mistake again.

bosssmiley
2008-10-06, 03:58 AM
The Wise Fool ("Wot no TV Tropes page?" :smallconfused: ) in the manner of Forrest Gump (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ForrestGump) or Mork from Ork.

xPANCAKEx
2008-10-06, 08:10 AM
6k to spare?

either some sore of mobility item (to stop you getting slowed down), or something to boost your undoubtedly abismal AC score (big creature = easy target)

Jayabalard
2008-10-06, 08:58 AM
Edith Bunker

Person_Man
2008-10-06, 09:19 AM
A woman asked John Updike, "How do you write women so well?" He replied, "I think of a man and I take away reason and accountability.

Sexist writers aside, you need to do the same thing. Roleplay someone that is driven by emotions instead of reason. People who are emotional aren't stupid (otherwise 50-60% of human beings are stupid, if you believe the Myers-Briggs institute). They just make decisions based on intuition and feelings instead of logic and empirical observations. And when it comes to matters of intuition and feeling (such as understanding love, hate, romance, violence, loyalty, money, or anything else involving the human condition) they tend to be more wise and better equipped then someone with a high IQ who depends on logic.

Put another way, you're Captain Kirk. Mr Spock may be 10 times as smart as you, but many problems that you come across in an adventure aren't solved with techno-babble or Vulcan logic. They're solved by understanding how people work, and using that wisdom to your advantage.

Saph
2008-10-06, 10:17 AM
Very well. Again, my DM has a habit of killing us a lot, and he did OK this.

Is it possible that these two things might be connected? Ie, he OKed the character because he likes killing the PCs in your group? Frenzied Berserker + 46 Strength won't kill YOU, but it'll do a number on the other party members.

- Saph

monty
2008-10-06, 10:46 AM
Is it possible that these two things might be connected? Ie, he OKed the character because he likes killing the PCs in your group? Frenzied Berserker + 46 Strength won't kill YOU, but it'll do a number on the other party members.

- Saph

Ehh. He has a terrible initiative modifier, and we have 5 casters in the group capable of doing something about it (Wall of Force, anyone?).


6k to spare?

either some sore of mobility item (to stop you getting slowed down), or something to boost your undoubtedly abismal AC score (big creature = easy target)

Mobility might be a good idea, but I've pretty much given up on AC. He has AC 18 right now (8 touch), and at ECL 13, pretty much everything is either doing touch attacks or hitting well above that, so it probably wouldn't matter much without a significant investment.

Magnor Criol
2008-10-06, 11:05 AM
Ehh. He has a terrible initiative modifier, and we have 5 casters in the group capable of doing something about it (Wall of Force, anyone?).



Mobility might be a good idea, but I've pretty much given up on AC. He has AC 18 right now (8 touch), and at ECL 13, pretty much everything is either doing touch attacks or hitting well above that, so it probably wouldn't matter much without a significant investment.

5 casters, and a brute with 46 strength? You guys have an interesting adventuring party on your hands.

...Feral AND half-minotaur goliath...och.

If you can, look into acquiring something that lets you Spring Attack. It may not be optimized (I don't know much about optimizing) but the idea is awesome. Moving 70 feet per round? You could run back and forth past the enemy, getting in attacks as you do, and they wouldn't even be able to see you. =p

monty
2008-10-06, 11:26 AM
5 casters, and a brute with 46 strength? You guys have an interesting adventuring party on your hands.

...Feral AND half-minotaur goliath...och.

If you can, look into acquiring something that lets you Spring Attack. It may not be optimized (I don't know much about optimizing) but the idea is awesome. Moving 70 feet per round? You could run back and forth past the enemy, getting in attacks as you do, and they wouldn't even be able to see you. =p

I already have Pounce. Full attack on a charge? They still won't see me. Because they'll be dead.

And there are several other characters in the party (it's a big group).

busterswd
2008-10-06, 11:37 AM
Mmmm... a few ways to do this

Idiot savant; you're surprisingly proficient at a number of things but lack the intelligence to do other things people take for granted. so you'll need party member aid in a number of mundane situations.

Lenny from Of Mice and Men; natural empathy for animals and other humans, slow, but also functional.

Feral man. Does a lot of things by instinct and can speak limited Common, but he's got very good animal instincts. Perhaps he was raised by wolves.

monty
2008-10-06, 02:07 PM
No suggestions for a name?

TheCountAlucard
2008-10-06, 02:11 PM
Well, a friend of mine made a druid in a FR campaign. The druid had an Int of 6, but a high Wis. He named the character "Mogo."

xPANCAKEx
2008-10-06, 03:04 PM
i don't have races of stone - but go with a single solid goliath name (2 syllabuls max), and add a clan name.

he may be stupid, but he will know his family name.

Stormageddon
2008-10-06, 03:47 PM
For another question, I'm terrible at coming up with character names. What's a good one for this beast?



I don't think straining his back would be much of a problem, seeing as how he can lift almost 10,000 pounds as a light load.



Very well. Again, my DM has a habit of killing us a lot, and he did OK this.

Feral Half-Minotaur Goliath
Scout 3 / Barbarian 2 / Fighter 2 / Frenzied Berserker 3
Str 46 (40) Dex 8 Con 32 (26) Int 4 Wis 16 Cha 12

Feats:
1 Multiattack
3 Destructive Rage
6 Intimidating Rage
9 Leap Attack
Fighter 1 Power Attack
Fighter 2 Cleave

Equipment:
Belt of Giant Strength +6
Amulet of Health +6
+3 Berserker Huge Greataxe
6000 gp (haven't decided what to do with this yet)
Maybe I should drop the axe to +2 and make it an intelligent item, just for fun...

Edit: Also, a speed of 70. That's pretty damn fast.

Damn that's a high powered guy. I always get into games going 1 to 20 nothing fancy. You an intelligent great axe than ask if you could role play the axe and the charter.

imperialspectre
2008-10-06, 04:04 PM
Just a friendly suggestion, but if you have a cleric or wizard in the party, it might be good to drop the axe to +1, add whatever bonuses you want (or make it an intelligent weapon), and get the friendly caster to drop a Greater Magic Weapon on it every morning. It'll get you the same bonus for a lot less cost.

monty
2008-10-06, 06:26 PM
Just a friendly suggestion, but if you have a cleric or wizard in the party, it might be good to drop the axe to +1, add whatever bonuses you want (or make it an intelligent weapon), and get the friendly caster to drop a Greater Magic Weapon on it every morning. It'll get you the same bonus for a lot less cost.

That is a good point; I think I'll go with that.


Also, if I remember right, the party consists of five casters (2 sorcerers, wizard, cleric, archivist) and three fighty types (blackguard, knight, ranger), so this character balances it out more if anything (although I'd hesitate to use the term "balance" to describe any aspect of him).

Godric
2008-10-06, 06:30 PM
I don't know if this has been said, but:

Low Int, High Wis = Forrest Gump.

Kizara
2008-10-06, 07:34 PM
Get a keen greataxe instead of one of the +1s and get your casters to cast GMW on it. Imagine how terrible your crits are going to be.

Get an amulet of continuous Protection from Evil. +2 AC and immunity to compulsion for like 2.5k? Yes please.

Ring of Freedom of Movement is a Must-Have for any melee character.

Hexblade or paladin of freedom works alot better then scout, consider taking hexblade 3 instead.

monty
2008-10-06, 10:49 PM
To introduce him to the party...I know one of the players, a Catfolk sorcerer, is prone to making sarcastic comments.

Sorcerer: (miscellaneous insult)
Me: ???
Somebody else: He made a joke about your intelligence.
Me: Oh. Funny. <name> play with funny kitty!
Sorcerer: :smalleek:
Me (OOC): Roll for grapple.

monty
2008-10-06, 11:29 PM
Now my DM's allowing flaws...I think I'll take Vulnerable and add in Shock Trooper. So with full Power Attack, Rage, and Frenzy, my AC is...2? Also putting my touch AC at -8.

Second flaw and feat - suggestions?

Kizara
2008-10-07, 12:18 AM
Now my DM's allowing flaws...I think I'll take Vulnerable and add in Shock Trooper. So with full Power Attack, Rage, and Frenzy, my AC is...2? Also putting my touch AC at -8.

Second flaw and feat - suggestions?

Take the negative reflex save one (your reflex save is a high HP score). And I would take Extra Rage, so you aren't limited to 1 rage/day. It also gives you extra frenzies.

monty
2008-10-07, 12:33 AM
All right, I'm looking at the SRD rules for intelligent items, and I can't find any way of determining CL for their abilities, and the Q&A master agrees that the rules seem to be absent. What would be a reasonable way of determining that?

Cuddly
2008-10-07, 01:18 AM
Put another way, you're Captain Kirk. Mr Spock may be 10 times as smart as you, but many problems that you come across in an adventure aren't solved with techno-babble or Vulcan logic. They're solved by understanding how people work, and using that wisdom to your advantage.

Or a two handed punch to the face. That means +2 for each -1 to hit when he power attacks.

monty
2008-10-07, 10:59 AM
I wonder, could you use Iron Heart Surge to remove an unwanted frenzy? I'm sure I could fit a couple of Warblade levels in there.

paddyfool
2008-10-07, 11:23 AM
Looks like you've got plenty of decent suggestions already. I'd like to second the suggestion to swap the scout levels for Paladin of Freedom - I hate few things more than handing control of my character to the DM following a failed Will save vs compulsion. No idea about Iron Heart Surge -haven't got the book.

One point to a prior poster - I'd put Lenny from Of Mice and Men at average Wis at best. He's really not that observant.

monty
2008-10-07, 11:30 AM
Looks like you've got plenty of decent suggestions already. I'd like to second the suggestion to swap the scout levels for Paladin of Freedom - I hate few things more than handing control of my character to the DM following a failed Will save vs compulsion. No idea about Iron Heart Surge -haven't got the book.

Wouldn't immunity to compulsions mean that I could never go into a frenzy, though?

Devils_Advocate
2008-10-07, 07:58 PM
Suggested names: Thwack, Thud, Rarg, Walter, N/A (Maybe no one has named this guy yet.)


Good practical cleverness, good at learning from experience, good at interpreting experiences. Like a really, really preternaturally smart dog. Take the smartest dog you can imagine, and then some.
That sounds like a good guideline. Don't think of him as dumb for a humanoid, think of him as real smart for a dog.

The whole "raised by owlbears" style background that Ashtar suggests seems to be part of what the Feral template is meant to represent, based on its description in Savage Species. That or a once civilized individual made to live like an animal in the wild. Just in case the template's name didn't make it obvious...


He knows whether or not something is a good idea or not, not by judging it's merits but judging people's reactions, their judgments, and factoring in what usually works and what usually doesn't.

On a similar vein, he is probably a good judge of character but relies to much on it. If he don't think someone is trustworthy, he will never accept any deal or negotiation from that person even if the smarter characters assure him that the plan is foolproof. The only evidence he has is the person, not the plan.
Deciding whether or not to trust someone will be one of this guy's most vital skills. He'll be ignorant of lots of things and unable to puzzle stuff out on his own, and he'll know this. Smarter people will have the answers he lacks, but may not have his best interests in mind, and may not always tell the truth. He'll probably have learned through experience that some people will try to take advantage of him.

Mind you, when I say that assessing trustworthiness will be one of his most vital skills, I mean that it will be important for him to be good at it. That's not to say that he necessarily will be really good at it. (No ranks in Sense Motive but good Wisdom would make him fairly good at dealing with untrained Bluffers, but easy prey for truly skilled liars. That seems roughly appropriate, really.)


Low Int, High Wis = Forrest Gump.
Yes, Forrest does seem to be the archetypal High Wisdom But Low Intelligence guy. He's routinely given as an example in these discussions. Mind you, this guy is a fair bit dumber than Forrest.


All right, I'm looking at the SRD rules for intelligent items, and I can't find any way of determining CL for their abilities, and the Q&A master agrees that the rules seem to be absent. What would be a reasonable way of determining that?
A magic item's caster level is given in its description, and determines the level-dependent aspects of the powers of the item. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#casterLevel) How exactly you're supposed to determine the caster level of a custom magic item is a bit of a mystery. The rules say that "the caster level is determined by the creator", which would seem to indicate that it can be as high as you want it to be, so let's just disregard that because it's dumb. "The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given" is a more useful guideline. That means that every intelligent item has a CL of at least 15th (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#intelligentItemCreation), possibly more if it has a truly impressive special ability or dedicated power.

Your DM might be reluctant to let you choose all of the intelligent weapon's features, since it looks like, by RAW, even the item's creator doesn't get to do that. You might find it interesting to roll one up randomly, as the rules suggest an intelligent item's creator do. Let's see... If you make a +1 Berserker weapon with Int 16, Cha 16, Wis 10, speech, knowledge of Common plus three other languages, literacy, the ability to communicate telepathically with its wielder, 60 ft. darkvision and hearing... that should give it a price of 14,000 gp, plus the price modifiers for the three lesser powers you roll up. (If I've done my math right.) If it's a light-generating magic weapon, that explains why your character picked it in particular out of the hoard of some dragon he killed or something: It was all glowy, and thus clearly superior to non-glowing weapons (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PowerGlows). :smalltongue:

It will at least need to be able to speak if it is to be able to appropriately express the requisite sardonic I'm-so-much-smarter-than-my-boss personality.

The weapon's alignment and purpose were decided by its creator, obviously.

monty
2008-10-07, 08:04 PM
I'm thinking an interesting way to play the intelligent weapon might be as a piece of the character's mind broken off. Maybe he used to be intelligent, but some event happened that drained his intelligence and charisma, transferring them into a nearby item.

Flickerdart
2008-10-07, 09:08 PM
I'm thinking an interesting way to play the intelligent weapon might be as a piece of the character's mind broken off. Maybe he used to be intelligent, but some event happened that drained his intelligence and charisma, transferring them into a nearby item.
So like a Psicrystal, except it's an axe, and instead of a tiny sliver it took most of the personality with it?

TheCountAlucard
2008-10-07, 09:13 PM
I'm thinking an interesting way to play the intelligent weapon might be as a piece of the character's mind broken off. Maybe he used to be intelligent, but some event happened that drained his intelligence and charisma, transferring them into a nearby item.

Perhaps the two have a clash in personality, the stupid personality enjoying his ignorance, while the intelligence in his weapon wants to bring him into the light...?

...Just an idea.

Grail
2008-10-07, 09:28 PM
For another question, I'm terrible at coming up with character names. What's a good one for this beast?



I don't think straining his back would be much of a problem, seeing as how he can lift almost 10,000 pounds as a light load.



Very well. Again, my DM has a habit of killing us a lot, and he did OK this.

Feral Half-Minotaur Goliath
Scout 3 / Barbarian 2 / Fighter 2 / Frenzied Berserker 3
Str 46 (40) Dex 8 Con 32 (26) Int 4 Wis 16 Cha 12

Feats:
1 Multiattack
3 Destructive Rage
6 Intimidating Rage
9 Leap Attack
Fighter 1 Power Attack
Fighter 2 Cleave

Equipment:
Belt of Giant Strength +6
Amulet of Health +6
+3 Berserker Huge Greataxe
6000 gp (haven't decided what to do with this yet)
Maybe I should drop the axe to +2 and make it an intelligent item, just for fun...

Edit: Also, a speed of 70. That's pretty damn fast.

Ok, firstly - this is the kind of character that as an experienced DM I would vet in an instance. But if you're DM is letting you play this abomination, then that's his/her concern.

With such a low Intelligence, he'd be constantly misplacing, losing or throwing away items when a new one takes his fancy (see how children act when something new and shiny comes along). Min-maxing aside, this is a roleplaying question of how to roleplay him. I'd be less inclined to take all the really good items and take items that appeal to him on an ascetic level rather than something that is going to be more effective game-wise.

Personally, I don't think anyone who is smart enough to roleplay can legitimately roleplay a character with such disparity in the areas of Intelligence and Wisdom. It is too counter-intuitive. Infact, in the 25 odd years that I've been roleplaying, I've never really seen anyone able to play characters with low Int and/or Wis successfully. Even semi-professional actors have struggled to maintain such a level of inability to play a character like this over an extended period of time. Human nature being what it is, it's too easy to say or do something that puts you in the optimal position in combat or out of harms way when you know what is coming.

Of course, that's a bit of waffle.

I'd concentrate on playing this thing as a destructive, almost mindless, but very empathetic machine of destruction. No tactics at all in combat. That means attacking the closest thing to you and moving on. No moving for flanks. Just kill and move and kill and move. I would recommend that if you really want to roleplay the character well, to take an odd assortment of equipment, but mostly attack with natural attacks. Hardly ever communicate with words, but more grunts, growls and gestures. Occassionally be kind and compassionate or understanding, but never knowing really what is going on.

Manipulative Child or a Puppy, either with a destructive bent.

Anyway.....

Heliomance
2008-10-07, 09:58 PM
I'd dispute that it's not possible. One of the guys in a game I'm playing with has similar mental stats, and it's roleplayed really frakking well. The character is dumb as mud, but yet he keeps coming up with really off-the-wall plans that somehow work. That and the fact his charisma is decent mean that somehow, the int 4 (now 6) barbarian has become the party leader.

Grail
2008-10-07, 10:42 PM
I'd dispute that it's not possible. One of the guys in a game I'm playing with has similar mental stats, and it's roleplayed really frakking well. The character is dumb as mud, but yet he keeps coming up with really off-the-wall plans that somehow work.

I'd dispute that it's possible to even think through a plan, off-the-wall or not, with an Intelligence of 4. He wouldn't have the foresight, or the conviction to be able to work out a plan other than "Chop". Ever asked a child to come up with a plan for anything?

TheCountAlucard
2008-10-07, 10:46 PM
Ever asked a child to come up with a plan for anything?

Ever observed wolves bringing down something bigger and stronger than themselves?

monty
2008-10-07, 11:34 PM
I'd concentrate on playing this thing as a destructive, almost mindless, but very empathetic machine of destruction. No tactics at all in combat. That means attacking the closest thing to you and moving on. No moving for flanks. Just kill and move and kill and move.

That says "Frenzied Berserker" to me.

Grail
2008-10-07, 11:37 PM
Ever observed wolves bringing down something bigger and stronger than themselves?

Apples and oranges. They don't plan, they hunt with instinctive reasoning and reactions. However, if the hunting technique cannot be used, then what do they do? They go hungry. They do not have the cognitive measure to plan something else and put that plan into practice.

This prior example of someone "roleplaying" a character of low intelligence and making plans that come off and becoming the party leader is Exhibit A as to why playing exceptionally low intelligence characters for a lengthy duration doesn't work. People who roleplay are nominally pretty switched on. No matter how hard they try, the player's natural traits will show through and they will say or do something that their character just wouldn't be capable of. Maybe for 1 or 2 sessions, but not for a campaign.

Doresain
2008-10-07, 11:43 PM
mongo just pawn in game of life?

i think that fits the high WIS low INT character pretty well

Adumbration
2008-10-08, 12:43 AM
Apples and oranges. They don't plan, they hunt with instinctive reasoning and reactions. However, if the hunting technique cannot be used, then what do they do? They go hungry. They do not have the cognitive measure to plan something else and put that plan into practice.


Ahem. They go eat something smaller. If that was all there was to wolves, they'd have become extinct ages ago.

Heliomance
2008-10-08, 02:14 AM
Ever asked a child to come up with a plan for anything?

Ever seen a child with 16 WIS?

Asbestos
2008-10-08, 11:02 AM
I think that with a 4 Int the intelligent weapon is a must have. Perhaps its a split personality, perhaps its sardonic, perhaps the weapon was granted by a soft-hearted wizard to 'look after' the big oaf.

Asbestos
2008-10-08, 11:17 AM
Ahem. They go eat something smaller. If that was all there was to wolves, they'd have become extinct ages ago.

That doesn't mean that the wolves are demonstrating insight, it just means that they have learned that smaller things are easier to catch than bigger things. That could probably be figured out through trial and error rather quickly. I mean, even flatworms can 'learn' but that doesn't make them wise.

monty
2008-10-08, 01:41 PM
That doesn't mean that the wolves are demonstrating insight, it just means that they have learned that smaller things are easier to catch than bigger things. That could probably be figured out through trial and error rather quickly. I mean, even flatworms can 'learn' but that doesn't make them wise.

Wolves have 12 Wisdom, by the way. And that sort of trial-and-error learning seems to me the sort of thing that goes along with Wisdom. It's more "common sense" knowledge than book knowledge. That's why Sense Motive is Wis-based, because you learn how people act when they're lying through trial and error.

Asbestos
2008-10-08, 04:15 PM
Wolves have 12 Wisdom, by the way. And that sort of trial-and-error learning seems to me the sort of thing that goes along with Wisdom. It's more "common sense" knowledge than book knowledge. That's why Sense Motive is Wis-based, because you learn how people act when they're lying through trial and error.

*blink* You're being facetious here right? I think the wolves the poster was referring to were in fact real wolves, not wolves according to D&D stats. Sense Motive isn't just trial and error, its intuition too. I can condition a cockroach's headless body to learn, I don't think anyone would call said body 'wise'.

Nearly anything with neurons (and sometimes not even that!) can learn through trial and error, the key is in how long it takes them to actually figure it out and more important to trial and error is insight. Your high wis/low int guy is going to have a lot of insight and a good learning curve, he might even be able to figure things out quicker than more intelligent, less wise members of the party, he's just going to be awful at communicating/counting/making tools/things that require knowledge.

sleepy
2008-10-08, 05:05 PM
Low int can't plan, huh? Once, I saw a raccoon taunting a dog on a leash. Standing just out of reach chittering and generally acting obnoxious while the dog lunged and barked. While hilarious in and of itself, it became doubly so when a friend pointed out, back at the other end of the dog's rope, a second raccoon going to town on a the dog's food dish.

As for Sense Motive, that's a great example of the difference between Int and Wis thinking. Your Int-based analysis of what someone said involves carefully picking over what they've said for inconsistencies, hidden goals, glossed over implications, and similar. This sort of thing is the players are supposed to do themselves. The Sense Motive roll is for the Wis piece of the equation... did the body language feel right, did the npc's level of concern make sense, was his apparent interest emphasizing something other than his claimed interest.

Int asks if the facts add up, and Wis asks if the cues add up. One trusts your understanding and ability to connect the dots, the other trusts your observation and that the most indicated thing is worth assuming.

A gut feeling or intuition is your subconscious nudging you about all the little tells you haven't been consciously paying attention to, but have started saying the same thing enough you're being foolish to ignore them.