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dspeyer
2008-10-07, 12:20 AM
Now that's everything, huh? No weapons... No friends... No hope. Take all that away... and what's left?
--Angelus, Becoming Part II


RETURN OF THE GESTALT BUILD CHALLENGE VI: EMPTYHANDED

A recurring criticism of DND is that your equipment matters more than your character. Let's try to disprove that. This week's challenge is to create a character that is completely self-sufficient: no gear, no weapons, no famliar, no animal companion, no cohort -- just their self.

Bonus points for effective violent characters. Druid is discouraged as it's a little too good at this. Vow of Poverty is banned because you're not giving anything up.

"Gestalt Build Challenge" General Rules

We'll follow Duke of URL's old rules plus with a few minor changes.

For numeric attributes with progressions (such as BAB and saves) first determine at each level which progression the attribute follows, then count how many levels of each progression you have, then index into the progressions, then add them together. This means that a fighter 1 / sorceror 19 // wizard 20 has 1 level of good BAB and 19 of bad, giving +1 and +9 respectively for a total BAB of +10. Similarly, a character with 20 different marshal classes gets a base fort save of +12, not +40. It's not addressed in the gestalt or multiclassing rules, but this tends to make the most reasonable builds.

Disregard the clause about multiclassing penalties. We could never figure out how to apply it anyway.

If you are using multiple templates, you may only do so in a way which makes sense with what the template means. For example, you may only use one template that represents one parent being of a different race unless your base race is one where more-than-two parent reproduction is normal.

Well known cheese (pun-pun, omnificer, etc.) is banned.

Here are Duke of URL's old rules, for those who have forgotten them. Spoilered because they're long


Unless otherwise specified in the specific challenge, the following rules and guidelines are always in effect:
Gestalt builds; 28-point buy; use any WOTC 3.5 product (including Dragon magazine) except where noted (only 3.0 products with an official upgrade to 3.5 are allowed)
Make all builds to ECL 20. However, indicate the minimum ECL the build is playable at (the level at which all LA and/or racial HD, if applicable, are accounted for) and label any level that indicates a "power break" where the build has a significant jump in power level. Provide a detailed description of how the build operates.
Any race with a listed level adjustment is allowed (no racial progressions from Savage Species, please). LA and HD each apply to one side of the gestalt; you may include LA and HD on the same side as each other, or on other sides. No LA buyoff. LA is applied before racial HD, which must be paid off before class levels on that side. Examples: LA X / RHD Y / class Z / ... // class A / ... -OR- LA X / class Y / ... // RHD A / class B / ...
Multiclass at will, but see "voting".
Up to two flaws are allowed, but see "voting".
Templates are allowed, but see "voting".
Voting: Upon the close of entries for each challenge, members of the forum may vote in-thread for the build that best represents the goals set out by the challenge. The voting criteria should consist of: Functionality: How well does the build do in its primary role as specified in the challenge? Weaknesses: Does the build have any glaring weaknesses that can be exploited? Playability: How much of the 1-20 level range can the build be played at and be effective? Creativity: Clever use of races, classes, and/or feats that may not be "typical" choices Cheese: Minimizing the number of cheese points Using flaws (1 point each) Ignoring mutliclassing penalties -- some DMs actually do enforce this in gestalt (1 point each) Single-level dips that would require several pages of justification to RP properly (1 point each) Templates that would require several pages of justification to RP properly (1 point per +1 LA) Attempting to use more than one PrC at any given level (1 point each) Attempting to use "dual progression" PrCs (1,000,000 points each) Over-dependence on items (1 point per indispensable item) Over-dependence on Diplomacy or Use Magic Device skills (1,000,000 points each)

Eldariel
2008-10-07, 12:26 AM
I may actually go for this. I suppose Psionics or spellcasting is the obvious way, but I'll try for something oldfashioned martial...

Douglas
2008-10-07, 12:27 AM
Just take any decent caster build that doesn't use a spellbook and tack on Eschew Materials. Most equipment that actually matters at high levels can be either duplicated or made irrelevant by spellcasting.

monty
2008-10-07, 12:29 AM
This shouldn't be too bad, considering all of my builds except the last have been almost entirely nondependent (is that a word?) on gear.

ocato
2008-10-07, 12:45 AM
Minor Clarification: No equipment or no magical equipment? Could a character possess a dinky, regular old sword?

sonofzeal
2008-10-07, 12:50 AM
For an actual game, I'd probably go Druid//Totemist. Totally compatible flavour, and a nifty way around some of the problems presented. If Druid is banned, I'll try to think of something else though....

dspeyer
2008-10-07, 01:26 AM
Minor Clarification: No equipment or no magical equipment? Could a character possess a dinky, regular old sword?

No equipment whatsoever.

Kurald Galain
2008-10-07, 03:58 AM
Almost a Jade Phoenix

Sorcerer 3 // Duskblade 3
Sorcerer 3 // Swordsage 3
Mage of the Arcane Order 10 // Swordsage 10
Archmage 4 // Swordsage 4

Taking the eschew materials feat, of course, plus coop spell and another metamagic to taste (e.g. shape spell). While you can't use all of the uber spells, there's plenty of spells printed that require little or no materials. On the other side, we have the quintessential monk-only-better, the unarmed swordsage. Duskblade 3 allows the combo with channel spell.

This is not nearly as optimized as it could be, but extremely playable.

Siegel
2008-10-07, 09:21 AM
For an actual game, I'd probably go Druid//Totemist. Totally compatible flavour, and a nifty way around some of the problems presented. If Druid is banned, I'll try to think of something else though....

Toss in Warshaper (or something like that) and Vow of Poverty ( i mean every Character in this should take VOP)

Druid // Totemist really is THE solution to this challenge.

The Rose Dragon
2008-10-07, 09:29 AM
Toss in Warshaper (or something like that) and Vow of Poverty ( i mean every Character in this should take VOP)

VoP is banned in this challenge.

Siegel
2008-10-07, 09:47 AM
VoP is banned in this challenge.

Ah jeah i see. And Druid is considered a bit unfair. Mh...

Meat Shield
2008-10-07, 09:54 AM
Psion//Unarmed Swordsage? Psion for range, SS for melee. Simple is generally better, and both of these are viable 20 level classes, playable at every level.

kamikasei
2008-10-07, 09:57 AM
No gear means no stat-boosters, etc. This sounds like a job for Incarnum.

The Rose Dragon
2008-10-07, 09:58 AM
No gear means no stat-boosters, etc. This sounds like a job for Incarnum.

And that sounds like a job for... Fax_Celestis!

Now only if he looked here.

Chronos
2008-10-07, 12:10 PM
The Soul Charger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4244036&postcount=26) I built for the In-Core-Eligibles contest should be usable here, too. The highlights are 11 attacks per round, all of them with natural weapons or unarmed strikes, and all of them usable on a charge, each with close to 100 points of bonus damage.

I'd want to work in a few other things, though, with core material allowed. As it stands, I don't even have Power Attack, and there's a few other feats/classes I'd want to add, too.

Chineselegolas
2008-10-07, 05:08 PM
You know, I might actually enter this.

Half Orc Paragon/Stoneblessed/Deepwarden/Fist of Forest/Frost Rager//Monk/Paladin
Mineral Warrior Half Orc I think. (Yeah... Somewhat based on the Frozen Dwarf Hulk Smash build)

A con driven character. A few cheese points of PrC dips, but could work out decently

Edit:
And here he is. Roughly
{table]Level | Class 1 | Class 2 | Feat(s) | Features | Break Point
1 | Rogue 1 | LA 1 | Endurance
2 | Half-Orc Paragon 1 | Monk 1 | Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple | | First Playable
3 | Half-Orc Paragon 2 | Monk 2 | Great Fortitude, Deflect Arrows
4 | Half-Orc Paragon 3 | Monk 3 |
5 | Stoneblessed 1 | Monk 4 |
6 | Stoneblessed 2 | Monk 5 | Power Attack, Improved Disarm
7 | Stoneblessed 3 | Monk 6 |
8 | Deepwarden 1 | Monk 7 | Track
9 | Deepwarden 2 | Monk 8 | Frozen Berserker | | Break point 1. Con instead of Dex to AC
10 | Fist of the Forest 1 | Monk 9 | | | Breakpoint 2. Con to AC when unarmoured (Yep, con to AC twice)
11 | Fist of the Forest 2| Monk 10 | | Lesser Ghost touch
12 | Fist of the Forest 3 | Monk 11 | Extra Rage
13 | Frostrager 1 | Monk 12|
14 | Frostrager 2 | ??? |
15 | Frostrager 3 | ??? | ???
16 | Frostrager 4 | ??? |
17 | Frostrager 5 | ??? |
18 | ??? 1 | ??? | ???
19 | ??? 2 | ??? |
20 | ??? 3 | ??? [/table]

Should have around 300 HP at 20th, an AC of 35, BAB of +18
Unarmed Strikes are doing 2d10+5 damage, and 1d8 cold damage when you rage.
Can Flurry and One-Two Punch for +21/+21/+21/+21/+16/+11/+6. Not really all that much considering the AC at that stage but you are unarmed.

Stats Before / After:
14 / 20
8 / 8
17 / 28
10 / 6
14 / 12
9 / 5

Not the smartest character though...

After the Monk levels tossing in some crusader or warblade for the concentration based save manoeuvres. Haven't finished working out which are better yet

Cheese Points: 1
One level dip in Rogue for extra skill points. Can work without it but then you get what you need and NOTHING else. Gives some extra to play around and create fluff skills.

playswithfire
2008-10-07, 05:42 PM
Hmm, empty-handed; how about unseen handed? Swordsage//Sorcerer who takes all five levels of Master of the Unseen Hand (taking sorcerer on the other side to not lose spell levels) and Ascetic Mage? Add in blood wind and greater mighty wallop... could be fun

Ponce
2008-10-07, 05:46 PM
Monk2/Barbarian3/SacredFist10/FavouredSoul+5//FavouredSoul5/Sorcerer10/EnlightenedFist5

Essential Feats: Combat Casting, Eschew Materials, Ascetic Mage, Superior Unarmed Strike...

Other feats to spec. Snap kick, extra rage, practiced spellcaster, extend spell, persist spell...

Human, obviously. Feats are valuable.

Cha>Str>Con>Dex>Wis>Int

Base Saves are F+12/R+10/W+12.
Base Attack Bonus is +18
HD progression is 2d8 + 3d12 + 10d8 + 5d8

Casts as a level 18 favoured soul. Casts as a level 14 sorcerer. Buff like crazy. Doesn't need material components to cast spells (eschew).


Very large unarmed base damage, can buff to ridiculous levels with greater mighty wallop, which it can cast on its own, and can increase its own size.
Charisma to AC, which is also its casting stat for both of its classes.
Base land speed of around 90, which it can buff.
Can do a full attack on a charge.
Can add touch spells to its unarmed routine, even part of a full attack or charge + full attack + touch spell.
Can expend stunning fist attempts to get bonus damage.
Useful, free sacred fist abilities.
Evasion + high ref save.


Let me know if I've violated a rule somewhere.

Leewei
2008-10-08, 01:27 AM
Woodsy the Dwarf

LN Dwarf Monk 20/Druid 10/Contemplative 10

Str: 10
Dex: 10
Con: 16
Int: 10
Wis: 23 (5 from levels)
Cha: 6

Feats: Eschew Materials, Companion Spellbond, Natural Spellcasting, Empower Spell, Spell Focus (conjuration), Augment Summoning, Improved Initiative

Woodsy the Dwarf has relatively modest stats, however self-buffs nicely, especially using druidic wildshape. This mook has reasonable AC in the start of the game and good saves throughout. Once wildshape comes into play, he can use combined physical stats and maneuverability to good effect. He eventually forgoes the wildshape and Animal Companion progression in later levels for the two spell domains of Luck and Magic. Monk provides the Knowledge (religion) required to enter this PrC.

Through Luck and Magic, the character gains access to miracle and mordenkainen's disjunction, as well as antimagic field, which can be cast on an Animal Companion to deal with magic-dependent opponents. A Giant Constrictor Snake would be handy enough with this or various other buffs.

On top of this, the character has a near-minimum +12 to all saves (form-dependent), extraordinary immunity to all poison and disease, stability, immunity to critical hits due to heart of <element> spells, SR30, +2 to saves against spells and spell-like abilities, improved evasion, and a laundry list of other monk, druid and contemplative class abilities.

Admittedly, Woodsy needs either a divine focus or else a means to ignore the lack of a focus in order to use most spells. The Eschew Materials feat doesn't mention foci as ignorable -- just material components.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-10-08, 02:48 AM
Human, Unarmed Swordsage 20// Wild Shape Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) 6/ Master of Many Forms 10/ War Shaper 4

Str 13 minimum, Dex irrelevant, Con priority, Int only for skills, Wis priority, Cha irrelevant.

Track, Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Alertness, Endurance, Combat Reflexes, Leap Attack (CV), Frozen Wild Shape (FB), Robilar's Gambit (PH2), Multiattack, and Defensive Sweep (PH2)

His only Ranger spells prepared should be Rhino's Rush (SC).

Lots of skill points and class skills, great survivability, powerful combat shapes like Cave Troll, War Troll, and 12-headed Cryohydra, all the Extraordinary abilities of your form starting at level 12, War Shaper abilities, and full maneuvers and stances focusing on Tiger Claw with unarmed strikes and natural attacks. Even in non-gestalt, take away the Swordsage side and give it a Monk's Belt and it's still a way overpowered build. Plus all your class features are still active in any Wild Shape form, including your fast movement from the variant Ranger.

At level 12 you can use Robilar's Gambit in Hydra form to get a free 12-bite AoO any time anyone attacks you, plus you'll get its Fast Healing 22. If somehow your opponents manage to Sunder/burn some of your heads, you can just spend a move-action and a Wild Shape use to reshape into another 12-headed Cryohydra and reset your heads back to 12. All of the Cave and War Trolls' special attacks and qualities are extraordinary, making them very powerful to use in combat. Outside of combat you'll be able to handle any situation with a skill check, tricky maneuver, or wild shape form.

I've never looked too deeply into maneuvers and stances, but you could probably just follow any Unarmed Swordsage guide for what's good to take.

1. Unarmed Swordsage 1/ Wild Shape Ranger 1, Track, Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Alertness
2. Unarmed Swordsage 2/ Wild Shape Ranger 2
3. Unarmed Swordsage 3/ Wild Shape Ranger 3, Endurance, Combat Reflexes
4. Unarmed Swordsage 4/ Wild Shape Ranger 4
5. Unarmed Swordsage 5/ Wild Shape Ranger 5
6. Unarmed Swordsage 6/ Master of Many Forms 1, Leap Attack
7. Unarmed Swordsage 7/ Master of Many Forms 2
8. Unarmed Swordsage 8/ Master of Many Forms 3
9. Unarmed Swordsage 9/ Master of Many Forms 4, Frozen Wild Shape
10. Unarmed Swordsage 10/ Master of Many Forms 5
11. Unarmed Swordsage 11/ Master of Many Forms 6
12. Unarmed Swordsage 12/ Master of Many Forms 7, Robilar's Gambit
13. Unarmed Swordsage 13/ War Shaper 1
14. Unarmed Swordsage 14/ War Shaper 2
15. Unarmed Swordsage 15/ War Shaper 3, Multiattack
16. Unarmed Swordsage 16/ War Shaper 4
17. Unarmed Swordsage 17/ Master of Many Forms 8
18. Unarmed Swordsage 18/ Wild Shape Ranger 6, Defensive Sweep
19. Unarmed Swordsage 19/ Master of Many Forms 9
20. Unarmed Swordsage 20/ Master of Many Forms 10

Talic
2008-10-08, 02:55 AM
I'll be making something for this shortly.

Quick Question: Is equipment that is specifically granted by class feature (i.e. Samurai's Katana and Wakizashi) allowed, as it's an unavoidable aspect granted by the class?

EDIT: Biff, you'd get more mileage outta that build with 7 levels of Master of many forms, 5 levels of warshaper, and 1-2 levels of Nature's Warrior.

Tokiko Mima
2008-10-08, 03:55 AM
My favorite build!

Pixie Warlock 7/Ruathar 3/Hellfire Warlock 3/Uncanny Trickster 3//Warlock 5/Cleric 15

Full 20 levels of Warlock (+9d6 E.B. damage), and 15 levels of Cleric. Has +10d6 Hellfire damage ready.

Using the Divine Power spell and the Empower SLA, Maximize SLA, and Quicken SLA feats, the warlock is able to do ~1178 damage in a single round with an Eldritch glaive attack assuming all 8 melee touch attacks (4 normal and 4 quickened) hit. If Vitriolic Blast is used, the attack bypasses any SR and is almost completely unavoidable. Without see invis or truesight, the victim also loses their dexterity bonus to AC as well.

Talic
2008-10-08, 10:09 AM
Entry: Toothy McGee

Unarmed Swordsage 20 // Wild Shape Ranger 5 / Master of many Forms 7/Warshaper 5/Nature's Warrior 3

Cheese = 0
Power Break: Level 5, level 12-17

Final BAB = +17
Final Saves = +17(when shifted)/+12(+dex of form)/+17
Stats at lvl 1 = Str 8, Dex 10, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 8
Stats at lvl 20= Str 8, Dex 10, Con 17, Int 14, Wis 20, Cha 8
Race = Human

Final = Good/Good/Good For 20 levels

Skills:
{table=header]Level | BAB | Feats | Skills | Class Features | Misc
1 | 1 | Alertness, FEAT , Track* | Know Nature 4, Survival 4, Move Silent 4, Hide 4, Listen 4, Spot 4, Search 4, Know (planes) 2, Martial Lore 4 | Favored Enemy, Fast Movement, Track*, Wild Empathy, Quick to Act +1, Discipline Focus (wpn Focus-Setting Sun), Unarmed Strike (as the Monk) | Unarmed SS Variant, Wildshape Ranger Variant
2 | 2 | | Know Nature 5, Survival 5, Move Silent 5, Hide 5, Listen 5, Spot 5, Search 5, Know (planes) 2, Martial Lore 5, Tumble 1 | AC Bonus (Wis) |
3 | 3 | FEAT, Endurance* | Know Nature 6, Survival 6, Move Silent 6, Hide 6, Listen 6, Spot 6, Search 6, Know (planes) 2, Martial Lore 6, Tumble 2 | Endurance* |
4 | 4 | | Know Nature 7, Survival 7, Move Silent 7, Hide 7, Listen 7, Spot 7, Search 7, Know (planes) 2, Martial Lore 7, Tumble 3 | Animal Companion, Discipline Focus (Insightful Strike - Setting Sun) | Wisdom +1
5 | 5 | | Know Nature 8, Survival 8, Move Silent 8, Hide 8, Listen 8, Spot 8, Search 8, Know (planes) 2, Martial Lore 8, Tumble 4 | Favored Enemy (2), Wild Shape 1/day(Small or med animal), Quick to Act +2 |
6 | 5 | FEAT | Know Nature 8, Survival 8, Move Silent 9, Hide 9, Listen 9, Spot 9, Search 8, Know (planes) 2, Martial Lore 9, Tumble 5 , Jump 3 | Shifter's Speech, Imp Wild Shape 2/day (humanoid) |
7 | 6 | | Know Nature 8, Survival 8, Move Silent 10, Hide 10, Listen 10, Spot 10, Search 8, Know (planes) 2, Martial Lore 10, Tumble 5 , Jump 7 | Sense Magic, Improved Wildshape 3/day (Giant; Large) |
8 | 7 | | Know Nature 8, Survival 8, Move Silent 11, Hide 11, Listen 11, Spot 11, Search 8, Know (planes) 2, Martial Lore 11, Tumble 5 , Jump 11 | Discipline Focus (Defensive Stance - Setting Sun), Fast Wild Shape, Improved Wildshape 4/day (Monstrous Humanoid) | Wisdom +1
9 | 8 | FEAT | Know Nature 8, Survival 8, Move Silent 12, Hide 12, Listen 12, Spot 12, Search 8, Know (planes) 2, Martial Lore 12, Tumble 5 , Jump 12, Swim 3 | Evasion, Improved Wildshape 5/day (Fey; Tiny) |
10 | 8 | | Know Nature 8, Survival 8, Move Silent 13, Hide 13, Listen 13, Spot 13, Search 8, Know (planes) 2, Martial Lore 13, Tumble 5 , Jump 13, Swim 6 | Quick to Act +3, Improved Wild Shape 6/day (Vermin) |
11 | 9 | | Know Nature 8, Survival 8, Move Silent 14, Hide 14, Listen 14, Spot 14, Search 8, Know (planes) 2, Martial Lore 14, Tumble 5 , Jump 14, Swim 9 | Improved Wildshape 7/day (Aberration; Huge) |
12 | 10 | FEAT | Know Nature 8, Survival 8, Move Silent 15, Hide 15, Listen 15, Spot 15, Search 8, Know (planes) 2, Martial Lore 15, Tumble 5 , Jump 15, Swim 12 | Discipline Focus (Insightful Strike - Shadow Hand), Extraordinary Wild Shape, Improved Wild Shape 8/day (Plant) | Wisdom +1
13 | 11 | | Know Nature 8, Survival 8, Move Silent 16, Hide 16, Listen 16, Spot 15, Search 8, Know (planes) 2, Martial Lore 16, Tumble 5 , Jump 16, Swim 16 | Morphic Immunities, Morphic Weapons |
14 | 11 | | Know Nature 8, Survival 8, Move Silent 17, Hide 17, Listen 17, Spot 17, Search 8, Know (planes) 2, Martial Lore 17, Tumble 5 , Jump 17, Swim 16 | Morphic Body |
15 | 12 | FEAT | Know Nature 8, Survival 8, Move Silent 18, Hide 18, Listen 18, Spot 18, Search 8, Know (planes) 2, Martial Lore 18, Tumble 5 , Jump 18, Swim 18 | Quick to Act +4, Morphic Reach |
16 | 13 | | Know Nature 8, Survival 8, Move Silent 19, Hide 19, Listen 19, Spot 19, Search 8, Know (planes) 2, Martial Lore 19, Tumble 5 , Jump 19, Swim 19, Climb 1 | Discipline Focus (Defensive Stance - Tiger's Claw), Morphic Healing | Wisdom +1
17 | 14 | | Know Nature 8, Survival 8, Move Silent 20, Hide 20, Listen 20, Spot 20, Search 8, Know (planes) 2, Martial Lore 20, Tumble 5, Jump 20, Swim 20, Climb 2 | Improved Evasion, Multimorph |
18 | 15 | FEAT | Know Nature 13, Survival 8, Move Silent 21, Hide 21, Listen 21, Spot 20, Search 8, Know (planes) 2, Martial Lore 21, Tumble 5, Jump 20, Swim 20, Climb 2 | Wilding (Wild Shape 9/day), Nature's Armament (Earth's Resilience) |
19 | 16 | | Know Nature 18, Survival 8, Move Silent 22, Hide 22, Listen 22, Spot 20, Search 8, Know (planes) 2, Martial Lore 22, Tumble 5, Jump 20, Swim 20, Climb 2 | +1 Caster Level (Ranger) |
20 | 17 | | Know Nature 23, Survival 8, Move Silent 23, Hide 23, Listen 23, Spot 20, Search 8, Know (planes) 2, Martial Lore 23, Tumble 5, Jump 20, Swim 20, Climb 2 | Dual Boost 3/day, Quick to Act +5, Nature's Armament (Claws of the Grizzly) | +1 Con[/table]

Swordsage maneuvers, as well as any instance of the word FEAT, may be flavored to taste. Yes, that's 7 choosable feats, including 1 at level 1. All skill entries are listed as the Rank, not the modifer. Circumstance and stat modifiers aren't added as... they change.

Get Wisdom to damage +3 on any unarmed strike. Twice if it's deemed that the Wisdom to damage from Setting Sun and Shadow Hand stack. One of your weapons is treated as a size Category larger than you actually are. You get +4 Str and Con when you're shifted. You have an extra 5 feet of reach when shifted. You have Fast healing 2. You can change the form you're in as a standard action, and Wild shape as a move action (unless you take the 2 feat tree to make it swift). You can shift 9 times a day, for 6 hours at a time each. You Have DR 3/-. Good Attack Bonus, Strong Saves at all levels, and you have the maneuvers of a level 20 swordsage. All in all, not too shabby.

Chronos
2008-10-08, 12:07 PM
Quoth Tokiko Mima:
My favorite build!

Pixie Warlock 7/Ruathar 3/Hellfire Warlock 3/Uncanny Trickster 3//Warlock 5/Cleric 15

Full 20 levels of Warlock (+9d6 E.B. damage), and 15 levels of Cleric. Has +10d6 Hellfire damage ready.You need to rearrange levels slightly there... You have Warlock on both sides at ECL 5, and no Warlock advancement at ECL 18. And the bit about advancing a PrC beyond the last level of the class is debateable, to say the least.

Tokiko Mima
2008-10-08, 01:24 PM
You need to rearrange levels slightly there... You have Warlock on both sides at ECL 5, and no Warlock advancement at ECL 18.

I just thought it was odd and unnecessarily wordy to list it as Warlock 4/Cleric 15/Warlock 1. The first side of the gestalt is not necessarily in order either.


And the bit about advancing a PrC beyond the last level of the class is debateable, to say the least.

As far as advancing a class past the last level, you can't advance a spell progression beyond it's tabled spell progression. But with Hellfire Warlock and Uncanny Trickster it's just adding to the numerical level of the class, which I can't really find a rule for or against.

In a way, it's a bit like Ioun stones and other effects allowing you to advance your caster level higher than your HD. There probably should be a rule to prevent things like Greater Consumptive Field abuse and the like, but the rules are silent on the subject.

Hellfire Warlock actually seems designed to work this way, what with it out an out stating that you recieve +2d6 Hellfire damage per Hellfire Warlock level and Uncanny Trickster specifically advancing existing class features. What did the designers of Uncanny Trickster think, that you wouldn't continue advancing the original class anymore once you took Uncanny Trickster levels?

monty
2008-10-08, 02:07 PM
The Veiled Warrior
Draconic Couatl
RHD 9 / Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7 / Fatespinner 4 // LA +8 / Crusader 12
Str 26 Dex 16 Con 20 Int 14 Wis 16 Cha 24
Playable from level 9
Power breaks: 15 (Shock Trooper), 16 (finish IotSV)

{table]Level | Class 1 | Class 2 | Feat
1 | RHD 1 | LA 1 | Spell Focus (Abjuration)
2 | RHD 2 | LA 2
3 | RHD 3 | LA 3 | Greater Spell Focus (Abjuration)
4 | RHD 4 | LA 4
5 | RHD 5 | LA 5
6 | RHD 6 | LA 6 | Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
7 | RHD 7 | LA 7
8 | RHD 8 | LA 8
9 | RHD 9 | Crusader 1 | Eschew Materials
10 | IotSV 1 | Crusader 2
11 | IotSV 2 | Crusader 3
12 | IotSV 3 | Crusader 4 | Power Attack
13 | IotSV 4 | Crusader 5
14 | IotSV 5 | Crusader 6
15 | IotSV 6 | Crusader 7 | Improved Bull Rush
16 | IotSV 7 | Crusader 8
17 | Fatespinner 1 | Crusader 9
18 | Fatespinner 2 | Crusader 10 | Shock Trooper
19 | Fatespinner 3 | Crusader 11
20 | Fatespinner 4 | Crusader 12[/table]
Level 20 numbers:
HP: 8d8+12d10+100
BAB +20
Melee AB +30, Ranged AB +23
Base saves: Fort +12 Ref +9 Will +12
AC 21 (-1 Size, +3 Dex, +9 Natural), not that you care about this.

Pretty straightforward gish. Full sorcerer casting (including cleric spells - Miracle, anyone?), and 8th level maneuvers (IL 16). Couatl comes with lots of goodies, like some nasty Strength poison and Plane Shift at will.

Basic strategy: buff up, drop a veil, and hit things really hard. Power Attack liberally, using Shock Trooper to screw your AC instead of your attack bonus.


Ahh, you gotta love those Outsider HD. A rogue's skill points, a monk's saves, and a fighter's BAB. Only way it could be better is if it were d10 or d12, but what's 1 or 2 hp/level when you have all that other stuff? Add on full sorcerer casting and you've got nothing to lose.

Burley
2008-10-08, 03:04 PM
My favorite build!

Pixie Warlock 7/Ruathar 3/Hellfire Warlock 3/Uncanny Trickster 3//Warlock 5/Cleric 15

Full 20 levels of Warlock (+9d6 E.B. damage), and 15 levels of Cleric. Has +10d6 Hellfire damage ready.

Using the Divine Power spell and the Empower SLA, Maximize SLA, and Quicken SLA feats, the warlock is able to do ~1178 damage in a single round with an Eldritch glaive attack assuming all 8 melee touch attacks (4 normal and 4 quickened) hit. If Vitriolic Blast is used, the attack bypasses any SR and is almost completely unavoidable. Without see invis or truesight, the victim also loses their dexterity bonus to AC as well.

Emphasis mine. Is the figure you figured there with all three feats combined? Cause you can only use a Meta-SLA feat once per round.

Chronos
2008-10-08, 03:39 PM
What did the designers of Uncanny Trickster think, that you wouldn't continue advancing the original class anymore once you took Uncanny Trickster levels?Oh, I wouldn't have any problem with taking one level of Hellfire Warlock (or any other class), and then advancing it two more levels with UT. But taking 3 levels of Hellfire Warlock and then advancing it further is an awful lot like taking 5 levels of Hellfire Warlock, which of course you can't do.

I'm not saying it's cut-and-dried wrong; it is possible to interpret it your way. The Uncanny Trickster class description (and Legacy Champion, which works the same way) really should have specified one way or the other. I'm just pointing out that it's debatable.


monty, don't forget that couatls also have access to the cleric spell list. There's some nice juicy choices there for a gish, like Righteous Might (you don't much need Divine Power, having full BAB anyway). And of course Miracle is a godsend (literally) for a caster with limited spells known.

Tokiko Mima
2008-10-08, 04:21 PM
Emphasis mine. Is the figure you figured there with all three feats combined? Cause you can only use a Meta-SLA feat once per round.

It was updated in MM3 and Complete Arcane. SLA Metamagics can be combined in the same round. Quicken SLA was altered to include the concept of swift actions while Maximize and Empower SLA were altered to use no action at all, like most of the Sudden Metamagic line.

Complete Arcane rather laboriously describes in the Maximize SLA description how you must combine Empower and Maximize SLA so you don't gain a numerical benefit on empower because you also used maximize, so I'm pretty sure you can use them together. :smallwink:

Honestly, it's the same trick you see with Power Attack/Leap Attack/Shock Trooper. You just use Meta SLA Feat's to double/quadruple/octuple your SLA damage rather than feats that double/quadruple/quintuple your Power Attack damage.


Oh, I wouldn't have any problem with taking one level of Hellfire Warlock (or any other class), and then advancing it two more levels with UT. But taking 3 levels of Hellfire Warlock and then advancing it further is an awful lot like taking 5 levels of Hellfire Warlock, which of course you can't do.

I'm not saying it's cut-and-dried wrong; it is possible to interpret it your way. The Uncanny Trickster class description (and Legacy Champion, which works the same way) really should have specified one way or the other. I'm just pointing out that it's debatable.

Yeah, but what I mean is, suppose a player took one level of Hellfire Warlock, then 3 levels of Uncanny Trickster. You'd be fine with him doing that, correct? I think that's what you meant.

Then suppose the player decided to advance another two levels in Hellfire Warlock. What sort of rule do you cite to prevent someone from taking a class level because you already gained it's class features? It's a bit of a paradox, and it does highlight how poorly thought out '+1 existing class features' is. But then, the concept was devised in the Weapons of Legacy book so it's kinda understandable how the idea could be good but not well implimented.

That said I think it's fair that Warlock has it's share of cheese, since most of the better classes also have unique ways to bend or break rules.

Ponce
2008-10-08, 04:55 PM
Yeah, but what I mean is, suppose a player took one level of Hellfire Warlock, then 3 levels of Uncanny Trickster. You'd be fine with him doing that, correct? I think that's what you meant.

Then suppose the player decided to advance another two levels in Hellfire Warlock. What sort of rule do you cite to prevent someone from taking a class level because you already gained it's class features? It's a bit of a paradox, and it does highlight how poorly thought out '+1 existing class features' is. But then, the concept was devised in the Weapons of Legacy book so it's kinda understandable how the idea could be good but not well implimented.

That said I think it's fair that Warlock has it's share of cheese, since most of the better classes also have unique ways to bend or break rules.

I would guess that the designers intended it for use on base classes (for whom this whole issue is moot pre-epic, which I think is fine since epic levels are messed up anyway) and did not properly contemplate its effects on prestige classes and as such did not clarify how the Uncanny Trickster behaves in this instance. I agree, as you say, that it does seem to be an poorly implemented and controversial mechanic, and as such you might be hurting yourself by using it, as far as this competition is concerned.

monty
2008-10-08, 05:11 PM
monty, don't forget that couatls also have access to the cleric spell list. There's some nice juicy choices there for a gish, like Righteous Might (you don't much need Divine Power, having full BAB anyway). And of course Miracle is a godsend (literally) for a caster with limited spells known.

Forgot about that. Now it's even better!

dspeyer
2008-10-09, 12:33 AM
My favorite build!

Pixie Warlock 7/Ruathar 3/Hellfire Warlock 3/Uncanny Trickster 3//Warlock 5/Cleric 15


Hmm, I'd been thinking of a pixie warlock. Probably should do something else then.

Talic
2008-10-09, 02:34 AM
My 2nd build will be up tomorrow. Expect Pixie abuse. Don't expect warlock, it's too... done.

Tokiko Mima
2008-10-09, 12:57 PM
Don't expect warlock, it's too... done.

*sings*
Unlike other rule abuses,
Warlocks have unlimited uses! :smalltongue:

Hal
2008-10-09, 04:33 PM
Is a Drunken Master's Improvised Weapon proficiency outside the bounds of this contest?

KevLar
2008-10-09, 09:08 PM
{table]Level | Class 1 | Class 2 | Feat(s) | Features | Break Point
1 | Rogue 1 | LA 1 | Endurance
2 | Half-Orc Paragon 1 | Monk 1 | Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple | | First Playable
3 | Half-Orc Paragon 2 | Monk 2 | Great Fortitude, Deflect Arrows
4 | Half-Orc Paragon 3 | Monk 3 |
5 | Stoneblessed 1 | Monk 4 |
6 | Stoneblessed 2 | Monk 5 | Power Attack, Improved Disarm
7 | Stoneblessed 3 | Monk 6 |
8 | Deepwarden 1 | Monk 7 | Track
9 | Deepwarden 2 | Monk 8 | Frozen Berserker | | Break point 1. Con instead of Dex to AC
10 | Fist of the Forest 1 | Monk 9 | | | Breakpoint 2. Con to AC when unarmoured (Yep, con to AC twice)
11 | Fist of the Forest 2| Monk 10 | | Lesser Ghost touch
12 | Fist of the Forest 3 | Monk 11 | Extra Rage
13 | Frostrager 1 | Monk 12|
14 | Frostrager 2 | ??? |
15 | Frostrager 3 | ??? | ???
16 | Frostrager 4 | ??? |
17 | Frostrager 5 | ??? |
18 | ??? 1 | ??? | ???
19 | ??? 2 | ??? |
20 | ??? 3 | ??? [/table]

Should have around 300 HP at 20th, an AC of 35, BAB of +18
Unarmed Strikes are doing 2d10+5 damage, and 1d8 cold damage when you rage.
Can Flurry and One-Two Punch for +21/+21/+21/+21/+16/+11/+6. Not really all that much considering the AC at that stage but you are unarmed.
If you keep the Rogue Level, I suggest taking the Craven feat (you're not immune to fear, right?). It adds 1 dmg per Character (not Rogue) Level to your sneak attacks. While creatures with discernible anatomies are rare from some point on, if you find one and flank it you'll get +20dmg to every attack. Not bad.

Chronos
2008-10-10, 09:06 PM
Spellcasters strike me as too easy for this one: Just take any standard spellcaster build, toss in Eschew Materials, and you're done. Instead, here's a melee guy.

The Master of Smack
LG Elan Unarmed Swordsage 2/Totemist 2/Swordsage +11/Master of Nine 5 // Fighter 2/Moon-Warded Ranger 2/Paragnostic Initiate 1/War Mind 10/Crusader 1/Warblade 1/Psychic Warrior 2/Psion 1

Str 8
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 18 plus level-up points
Cha 6

{table=head]ECL|Class 1|Class 2|Feats|Special
1|Fighter 1|Swordsage 1|Improved Initiative, Adaptive Style|Quick to act 1, discipline focus (Weapon Focus)
2|Moon-Warded Ranger 1|Totemist 1|Track|Wild Empathy, favored enemy
3|Ranger 2|Totemist 2|Midnight Dodge|Armor of the senses, totem chakra bind
4|Fighter 2|Swordsage 2|Blind-Fight|AC bonus
5|Paragnostic Initiate 1|Swordsage 3||Assist casting (penetration), tactical combat
6|War Mind 1|Swordsage 4|Open Least Chakra: Hands|Chain of personal superiority +2, discipline focus (insightful strike)
7|War Mind 2|Swordsage 5||Chain of defensive posture +2, quick to act 2
8|War Mind 3|Swordsage 6||Enduring body 1
9|War Mind 4|Swordsage 7|Improved Natural Attack (Claws)|Sense magic
10|War Mind 5|Swordsage 8||Sweeping strike, discipline focus (defensive stance)
11|War Mind 6|Swordsage 9||Enduring body 2, evasion
12|War Mind 7|Swordsage 10|Rapidstrike|Chain of personal superiority +4, quick to act 3
13|War Mind 8|Swordsage 11||Chain of defensive posture +4
14|War Mind 9|Swordsage 12||Enduring body 3, discipline focus (insightful strike)
15|War Mind 10|Swordsage 13|Improved Rapidstrike|Chain of overwhelming force
16|Crusader 1|Mo9 1||Furious counterstrike, steely resolve 5
17|Warblade 1|Mo9 2||Battle clarity, weapon aptitude, dual stance
18|PsiWar 1|Mo9 3|Intuitive Attack, Snap Kick|Perfect form
19|PsiWar 2|Mo9 4|Expanded Knowledge (War Mind): Metamorphosis|Counter stance
20|Psion 1|Mo9 5|Practiced Manifester (War Mind)|Mastery of nine[/table]

Powers known (War Mind) (172 PP): Claws of the Beast, Expansion, Strength of my Enemy, Claws of the Vampire, Energy Adaptation, Metamorphosis, Oak Body

Maneuvers known (not exhaustive):
Strike of Righteous Vitality
Time Stands Still
Five-Shadow Creeping Ice Enervation Strike
Feral Death Blow
War Master's Charge
Dancing Mongoose
Raging Mongoose
Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip
Blood in the Water
Balance on the Sky
26 other maneuvers and 7 other stances

Typical soulmelds (3 essentia)
Girallon Arms (totem)
Ankheg Breastplate
Sphinx Claws (hands)


Basically, this build is a fusion of a standard Master of Nine with the King of Smack, plus a few extra goodies. He gets eight attacks with his claws, for up to 8d6 each (if he's Expanded at the time), plus five more attacks with unarmed strikes. Each of his claws heals him of 4d6 damage, if he's got Claws of the Vampire active, and he can pounce, thanks to his Sphinx Claws. He can also further augment his attacks with a wide variety of martial maneuvers and stances, such as Time Stands Still which gives him two full attacks in a round or Raging Mongoose which gives an extra four attacks. If he invests essentia into Girallon Arms, all of his claw attacks count as magic weapons, so he's not helpless versus incorporeals, and Stone Dragon maneuvers let him bypass damage reduction. Unlike most Mo9 or King of Smack builds, he loses only a single point of BAB across his entire progression, meaning he qualifies for the full four iterative attacks.

Defensively, he gets his wis modifier to AC twice, from Swordsage and Moon-Warded Ranger, an armor bonus to AC from Ankheg Breastplate, and possibly natural armor from Oak Body. He has DR 3/-- from War Mind, and has all saves good for all 20 levels. Additionally, as an elan, he can spend power points to further increase his saving throws or to soak up damage.

Although his base strength is low, he can increase it by up to 16 points, through Expansion, Chain of Personal Superiority, and Strength of my Enemy, on top of whatever he can gain through Metamorphosis. He can effectively fly, via use of the Balance on the Sky stance, and teleport short distances, via Shadow Jaunt and related maneuvers. In addition to self-healing through Claws of the Vampire, he can also heal other party members through Strike of Righteous Vitality or other Devoted Spirit maneuvers.

I had wanted to fit in some Kensai into the build, for enchanting all those natural weapons and another +8 Str booster, but there just wasn't any room. If going epic, that's the way to go, followed by Warshaper.

ocato
2008-10-10, 09:56 PM
Here's something Lazy: Human Monk 20//Fighter 20

Since the whole thing is about feat-based abilities, here's his feat list:
Jotunbrud
Stunning Fist
Hammer Fist
Power Attack
Combat Reflexes
Improved Grapple
Dodge
Scorpion's Grasp
Combat Expertise
Karmic Strike
Improved Trip
Defensive Throw
Fist of Iron
Weakening Touch
Two Weapon Fighting
Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Robilar's Gambit
Double Hit
Deflect Arrows
Improved Disarm
Grapple Block
Fiery Fist

Take the Decisive Strike monk variant. Each turn your goal will be to hit exactly once with most/all of your BaB sunk into power attack (via hammer fist, counted as a two hander) and use that sweet double damage. Add in First of Iron for 1d6 (2d6 on a decisive strike) extra damage and Fiery fist for 1d6 (2d6 on a decisive strike) fire damage. If something roughly your size attacks you, it's in trouble, especially since Decisive Strike works like power attack in that it works on all attacks until your next turn. Robilar's Gambit/Karmic Strike gives you two hits per successful attack made on you. Double Hit let's you attack twice per AoO so long as you use one hand on each (no hammer strike). Each/any time you hit, you can start a grapple thanks to Scorpion's Grasp.

So, assuming you have a really good dex (26 or higher): someone full attacks you (4 attacks at full L20 BaB) and hits you with each one, you can attack them back 16 times for double damage on each hit. Of course, if it looks like you can't take the heat, you can always interrupt their full attack by starting a grapple, locking them down hard. (You can also do no damage with one of your AoOs to Stunning Fist and/or Weakening Touch them, stopping their attack and/or giving them -6 STR). If they attack you and miss (and you have them selected as your dodge), you can trip them, then hit them, which starts a grapple. If they attack you with a weapon, you can disarm them mid-attack with grapple block, then trip them, then hit them, then grapple them. Once grappled, you maneuver them to the ground and sit on their chest while you Hammer Fist Power Attack Decisive Strike them in the face.

When fighting something you can't realistically grapple/trip, just lay into them with power attack decisive strikes as much as you can. This isn't a super viable build, but it is fun to have a boat load of crazy options you can take in a man on man fight.

Talic
2008-10-11, 03:27 AM
Entry 2: Unreliant
Playable from: 6
Power Breaks: 7-20.
Classes: Pixie/Grave Touched Ghoul/Evolved Undead x14 // Sorceror 6/Elemental Savant 10/Archmage 4

Base: Str 14, Dex 10, Con 8, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 18
After Pixie: Str 10, Dex 18, Con 8, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 24
After GraveTouched Ghoul: Str 12, Dex 22, Con -, Int 18, Wis 18, Cha 26
At level 20: Str 41, Dex 22, Con -, Int 18, Wis 18, Cha 58

{table=header]Gestalt 1 | Gestalt 2 | Feats | Spec Ability
Pixie | Sorceror | Dodge, Weapon Finesse, Energy Substitution (Electricity) | Fly 60 (good), Low Light Vision
Pixie | Sorceror | | +2 Racial Listen, Search, Spot, DR 10/Cold Iron, Greater Invisibility
Pixie | Sorceror | Sudden Maximize | SR 15+ Class Levels
Pixie | Sorceror | | | Pixie SLA's
GTG | Sorceror | Multiattack | Turn Resistance +2, Diet Dependent, Undead Traits
GTG | Sorceror | Rapid Metamagic | Bite 1d4+Str, 2 Claws 1d3+ 1/2 Str, Ghoul Fever, Paralysis
EvUn | Elem. Savant (Air) | | See Invisibility 1/day
EvUn | Elem. Savant (Air) | | Haste 1/day
EvUn | Elem. Savant (Air) | Flyby Attack | Haste 2/day
EvUn | Elem. Savant (Air) | | Hold Monster 1/day
EvUn | Elem. Savant (Air) | | Hold Monster 2/day
EvUn | Elem. Savant (Air) | Improved Flyby Attack | Greater Dispel 1/day
EvUn | Elem. Savant (Air) | | Greater Dispel 2/day
EvUn | Elem. Savant (Air) | | Greater Invisibility 1/day
EvUn | Elem. Savant (Air) | FEAT | Cloudkill 1/day
EvUn | Elem. Savant (Air) | | Cloudkill 2/day
EvUn | Archmage | | Cloudkill 3/day
EvUn | Archmage | FEAT | Unholy Blight 1/day
EvUn | Archmage | | Unholy Blight 2/day
EvUn | Archmage | | Circle of Death 1/day[/table]

Skills not done, there's a lot. Archmage, focus on more high level SLA's.You have the spell slots to burn.

AC at 20: 10 +1 (size) +6 (dex) +17 (Natural Armor) = 34 AC (possible +1 more dodge)

Cast as Level 19 Sorceror. DR to cold iron, Darkvision, Low light vision.

Good Strength makes for strong melee.

DC of abilities: 10+ 1/2 HD + Cha, or DC 44 at level 20.
DC of SLA's: 10+ Spell level + Cha, or DC 34+Spell level.
DC of Spells: 10 + Spell level + Cha, or DC 34+Spell level.
SR 35 at level 20.
Fast healing 42
Bonus Spells: 6/6/6/6/5/5/5/5/4, or 48 bonus spells

Greater invis is there as a SLA for if the pixie wants to Invisible something else... Such as the biggest rock a 41 Str Pixie can haul into the sky and drop on something (per Heroes of battle dive bombing rules).

Elemental Savant (Air) grants 100 foot fly speed with perfect maneuverability, but could as easily be swapped out for Dragon Disciple for added Strength, or many other prestige classes for added fun. Or even standard sorceror. Many of the immunities granted are redundant.

Debated Battle Sorceror for a few added HP's, as this seems to be a mix-it-up gish setup, and would benefit from spells that enhance that. Ruin Delver's Fortune is a must, as is Scintillating Scales. Pretty forgiving, as, at level 20, you're lookin at a +26 to hit, and a crapload of high power spells with good DC's.

1st 4 level boosts go to Cha, last one goes to Str

Chronos
2008-10-11, 01:45 PM
Y'know, I think everyone gets the point by now that Evolved Undead is awesome in Gestalt. I don't think we need any more builds to prove it.

Talic
2008-10-11, 02:50 PM
Want a non-GtG build? I think I can oblige.

Oh wait, I did, with my first entry.

vegetalss4
2008-10-11, 03:53 PM
Just take any decent caster build that doesn't use a spellbook and tack on Eschew Materials. Most equipment that actually matters at high levels can be either duplicated or made irrelevant by spellcasting.

remember that many spells uses focuses and you don't have those:smallwink:

Thrawn183
2008-10-11, 07:55 PM
Eli Inferno: Dragonborn Mongrelfolk Dragon Fire Adept 20//Warblade 20
Str 8, Dex 8, Con 29, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 8
HP: 336
Move 30 ft., Fly 60 ft. (perfect), Swim 30 ft.
BAB: +20/+15/+10/+5
Feats: Endurance, Steadfast Determination, Improved Toughness, Iron Will, Indomitable Soul, Improved Unarmed Strike, Plant Devotion, Dragontouched, Improved Initiative, Blind-fight, Run, Great Fortitude
Saves: Fortitude +23, Reflex +5, Will +23
Invocations: Aquatic Adaptation, Endure Exposure, Devour Magic, Baleful Geas, Voidsense, Walk Unseen, Greater Draconic Flight, Energy Immunity
Breath Effects: Lightning Breath, Slow Breath, Thunder Breath, Fivefold Breath of Tiamat, Paralyzing Breath
Important Maneuvers: Strike of Perfect Clarity, Mountain Tombstone Strike, Diamond Defense, Moment of Perfect Mind, Action Before Thought, Mind Over Body, Iron Heart Surge
Stances: Supreme Blade Parry, Stance of Alacrity,
Breath Weapon: 9d6 fire damage, usable every round, 30 ft. cone/60 ft. line, DC 29 Reflex Save for half.
Skills: UMD +22, Concentration +32, Spot +22, Listen +22, Knowledge (Arcana/Religion/Nature/Dungeoneering/Local)+5, Speak Language (any 3)

Why he’s interesting:
336 HP
Perfect Fly speed.
Swim Speed and water breathing.
Can exist comfortably in environments between -50 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit.
DR 5/-.
Energy Immunity: he walks around with it set to fire, but he can make it anything.
Invisibility at will.
Blindsense 30 ft.
Great Fortitude and Will saves. Doesn’t fail Fortitude saves on a 1, gets to roll twice against illusions.
...Can replace saves with concentration checks, can do this without even using up an action once per round thanks to stance of alacrity.
Breath Weapon: Useable every round, can make his allies immune to it
...Slow Breath: slow effect for 1 round even if the target makes its save
...Five Fold Breath of Tiamat: for 80 HP, this does 45d6 damage at level 20
While his DFA abilities are supernatural and spell-like, his warblade ones are not, meaning they still function in an antimagic field or dead magic zone.
He can make people his slaves with Baleful Geas.
Once per day he gets +2 to natural armor and heavy fortification from Plant Devotion.
He can remove magic through Devour Magic or Iron Heart Surge.
If he gets his hands on magic items he can use them thanks to UMD.

Playability: 1-20
Power Breaks:
1: He begins
5: Slow Breath
15: Five fold breath
17: Strike of Perfect Clarity
20: Double Stances

Adaptability:
If you want to stick him into a campaign, just give him items. Since none of his invocations are particularly useful in combat you don't even need to worry about things like arcane spell failure.

mostlyharmful
2008-10-12, 04:12 AM
remember that many spells uses focuses and you don't have those:smallwink:

Isn't there an eberron feat (from faiths of I think), that lets you treat your own body as a divine focus?

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-12, 04:27 AM
I had a Paladin once(Gestalt, VoP Fighter 1/Paladin5//Swordsage 6), who had been in prison when he found Heironius(at the hands of the Cleric who arrested him for banditry) and was attacked by the population for it. They carved the symbol into his chest as a way of telling the traitor(not true) what they thought. He used it as a Holy Symbol while smiting them, and ever since.

dspeyer
2008-10-12, 11:47 PM
I realize this is getting repetitive, but I did say I'd post it:

Teraka
Race: Pixie Grave-touched Ghoul
Stats: STR: 8 DEX: 28 CON: - INT: 24 WIS: 14 CHA: 22
Classes: la 6 / warlock 8 / assasin 3 / warlock 3 // rogue 10 / scout 3 / ninja 7
Important feats: swift ambusher, quicken SLA(EB), improved unarmed strike, ascetic mage

Basically functions as skillmonkey, with 15 ranks/level until ninja, where it drops to 13), extraordinary dex, int and cha (the stats of which most skills are based), and a few scouty goodies from pixie (flight, invisibility).

Also does ridiculously high damage. EB is 6d6, rogue (with swift ambusher) gives sneak attack 7d6, similarly scout gives skirmish 4d6, assasin gives 2d6 and ninja give 4d6, totaling 23d6, assuming movement and surprise. Thanks to quicken SLA, he can do it twice a round.

Finally, is reasonably hard to kill. There's high dex, natural armor, damage reduction and charisma to AC. Note that assassin//ninja may be the weirdest ascetic mage combination ever.

I didn't really want to use grave-touched ghoul here, but I did want assassin and I figured I needed something to make a pixie evil. Stupid alignment prerequisites.

KevLar
2008-10-13, 05:04 AM
I didn't really want to use grave-touched ghoul here, but I did want assassin and I figured I needed something to make a pixie evil. Stupid alignment prerequisites.
To circumvent that, there's the Avenger (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a)PrC, which is basically an Assassin for Good purposes and Good alignments.

dspeyer
2008-10-13, 08:53 PM
Is a Drunken Master's Improvised Weapon proficiency outside the bounds of this contest?

I'd say that improvised weapon proficiency is fair, as there's always something around. On the other hand, alcohol is not something that can be counted on (unless you can conjure it).

dspeyer
2008-10-14, 12:11 AM
To circumvent that, there's the Avenger (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a)PrC, which is basically an Assassin for Good purposes and Good alignments.

Yes but it's non-chaotic (why?!), and making a pixie reject chaos is harder than reject goodness.

dspeyer
2008-10-14, 12:25 AM
Seems like there's lots of casters/invokers and lots of monsters here. Not really surprising. Let's see about a powerful base-race melee...

Beowulf
Race: half-orc
Classes: Ape-totem Barbarian 10 / Frenzied Berserker 10 // violent wilderness rogue 4 / fist of the forest 3 / reaping mauler 5 / Champion of Gwynharwyf 8
Feats: unarmed strike, clever wrestling, extra rage, intimidating rage, power attack (b), great forttude, cleave, improved grapple (b), destructive rage, mobility (b), great cleave, hammer fist, instant rage
Initial Stats: STR: 18 DEX: 10 CON: 16 INT: 6 WIS: 14 CHA: 6
Final Raging/frenzying/feral trance bonuses: STR: +16 DEX: +4 CON: +6 with two extra attacks at full bab.

He can kill any creature with a discernible anatomy just by pinning him for 3 rounds. Alternatively, he can make two-fisted strikes with supreme power attack (bab loss * 4). Adding con to AC makes him not a total pincushin, but straight d12 HD and his own healing (castable while raging) are his primary defenses.

Oddly for a frenzied berserker, he doesn't have much of a will save, but that's ok, because he doesn't have any friends.

mabriss lethe
2008-10-14, 12:26 AM
Ralph the Streaking Terror

Human:

{table]level|class1|class2|feats
1|Binder1|soulknife1|Improved Binding, Ignore Special Requirements
2|Binder2|psywar1|Improved Initiative
3|Binder3|Soulknife2|Psionic Body
4|Binder4|Soulknife3|skilled pact making
5|Binder5|Soulknife4|
6|Binder6|Soulknife5|Expel Vestige
7|Binder7|Soulknife6|
8|Binder8|Psywar2|Practiced Mindblade
9|Binder9|Psywar3|Practiced Manifester
10|Binder10|Psywar4|
11|Binder11|Psywar5|Rapid Pact making, Expanded Knowledge (astral Construct)
12|Binder12|psywar6|Practiced Mindblade
13|Binder13|psywar7|
14|Binder14|psywar8|Skin of the construct
15|Binder15|psywar9|Psionic Dodge
16|Binder16|psywar10|
17|Binder17|psywar11|Practiced Mindblade
18|Binder18|psywar12|Sudden Ability Focus, Mindcleave
19|Binder19|psywar13|
20|Binder20|psywar14|Psionic Meditation[/table]

Playable at 1st level.
relies on Aym or Savnok early on for defense, malphas for sneaking and scouting.
by level3 he can bind Paimon and will also use skate to boost the effectiveness of his dance of death as soon as the option becomes availible. He both manifests and wields a mindblade as if he were 18 level in both Psywar and soulknife due to practiced X feats. Powers focus on the defensive and gaining more actions, while relying on mindblade as a primary weapon and filling in the gaps as needed with offensive capabilities gleaned from vestiges. The build relies on psionic body and a ghastly long list of psionic feats to boost his HP for when his defensive capabilities just won't cut it. I chose to go binder 20 instead of knight of the sacred seal, since his pact augmentations and soul guardian benefits will be extremely valuable in his current state of undress.

RS14
2008-10-14, 03:31 AM
Audin the Lurker
Unbodied
Str - Dex 10 Con 14
Int 26 Wis 14 Cha 18
BAB: +17
423pp/day
AC 14 (10 + 4 deflection) Touch 14 Flat-Footed 14
Fort +17 Ref +15 Will +18

16d8+4d10+40 (157.5 average)
{table=header]Gestalt 1 | Gestalt 2 | Feats | Spec Ability
Unbodied | Monsterous Humanoid 1 |Overchannel|
Unbodied | Monsterous Humanoid 2 ||
Unbodied | Monsterous Humanoid 3 |Burrowing power|
Unbodied | Monsterous Humanoid 4 ||Fly 30 (Good), Telekenetic Force, Telepathy 100', Assume Likeness, Hide Mind, Incorporeal traits
Paladin of Freedom 1|Psion 1|Psionic Meditation|Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 1/day
Paladin of Freedom 2|Psion 2|Split Psionic Ray?|Lay on Hands 16/day, Divine Grace
Paladin of Freedom 3|Psion 3||Aura of Resolve, Divine Health
Paladin of Freedom 4|Psion 4||Turn Undead 7/day, 1 L1 Paladin spell/day
Pyrokineticist 1|Psion 5|Empower, Divine Armor|Fire Lash
Pyrokineticist 2|Psion 6||Fire adaptation, hand afire
Pyrokineticist 3|Psion 7||Bolt of Fire
Pyrokineticist 4|Psion 8|Twin Power|
Pyrokineticist 5|Psion 9||Nimbus
Pyrokineticist 6|Psion 10|Quicken Power|
Pyrokineticist 7|Psion 11|x|Fear no fire
Pyrokineticist 8|Psion 12||Greater weapon afire
Pyrokineticist 9|Psion 13||Heat Death
Pyrokineticist 10|Psion 14|x|Conflagration
Ranger 1|Psion 15|p, Track|Favored Enemy, Wild empathy
Ranger 2|Psion 16||
[/table]

Skills:
{Bluff 23, Concentration 23, Craft (alchemy) 1, Knowledge (psionics) 23, Sense Motive 23, Psicraft 23, Disguise 7+32/2, Hide 13+12/2, Diplomacy 23}
With modifiers: {Bluff +31, Concentration +25, Knowledge (psionics) +31, Sense Motive +25, Psicraft +31, Disguise +31, Hide +19, Diplomacy +27}

Natural Touch attack 1d6 (Boost to +2d6 with hand afire; possibly add con damage with the Wounding Attack feat. With this, you can attack from inside cover all day long with only slight risk to yourself.)

He manifests as a Psion 20.
Burrowing power allows him to hide just under a foot inside any solid object and still manifest. Stone requires a psicraft check of 19, which can be done consistently by level 10.
Divine armor lets him gain DR5/-- for a single round as a swift action at the cost of one Turn-undead charge. You weren't going to use them anyway.
There are plenty of open feat slots... Fill them at will.
He has almost full BAB, Full Manifesting, all-around good saves, good HD, flight, is incorporeal, and can disguise himself as any small through large sized creature.
In short, this is a generalist. It can survive most attacks (on average, up to and including a full attack from a Great-Wyrm Gold dragon), manifest, go anywhere, deal direct damage at will, and act as an effective "face". It's also playable from level 4 onwards.
There is a small power break at level 10, when hiding behind stone no longer has any chance of interfering with manifesting.

sleepy
2008-10-14, 03:46 AM
I'm tempted to say tweak out the King of Smack for gestalt. He's already an open-hand melee brute who never eats or sleeps and heals himself for tremendous amounts of damage while tearing people's faces off... self sufficient enough? The other half of gestalt could be used in a lot of ways... raising the BAB to full (would this remove the need for illithid slayer and free up feats + add psywar bonus feats?), pump up his powerpoint reserve with another psionic class (xph explicitely states all psionic classes add to and pay from the same pool), somehow get EVEN BIGGER (build revolves around Improved Rapidstrike and size scaling natural weapons), add Flurry Of Blows (if this works)... I'm no charop type but I'm sure this could contend.