PDA

View Full Version : [3.X] Vote Up a Monster #2: The Votening! (Monster Complete, PEACH)



Zeta Kai
2008-10-07, 09:44 AM
Well, I had such a nice turnout for the last Vote Up a Monster contest (& a lot of fun making the resultant creature, the Gatekeeper), that I decided to do another one. I am, again, soliciting votes on a number of aspects on this creature. Here are the aspects, in order:


Type/Subtype: Construct (Angel)

{table=head]Type|Votes
Aberration|0
Animal|0
Construct|7
Dragon|0
Elemental|0
Fey|3
Giant|0
Humanoid|0
Magical Beast|1
Monstrous Humanoid|2
Ooze|4
Outsider|0
Plant|1
Undead|1
Vermin|1
[/table]

{table=head]Subtype|Votes
Air|1
Angel|10
Aquatic|1
Archon|0
Augmented|2
Chaotic|0
Cold|2
Earth|0
Evil|0
Extraplanar|0
Fire|1
Goblinoid|0
Good|1
Incorporeal|2
Lawful|0
Native|0
Reptilian|0
Shapechanger|1
Swarm|5
Water|0
NONE|2
[/table]
Size: Medium

{table=head]Size|Votes
Fine|2
Diminutive|1
Tiny|0
Small|1
Medium|10
Large|4
Huge|0
Gargantuan|0
Colossal|1[/table]
Alignment: Neutral Good

{table=head]Alignment|Votes|Alignment|Votes|Alignment|Votes
Lawful Good|0|Neutral Good|7|Chaotic Good|0
Lawful Neutral|5|True Neutral|1|Chaotic Neutral|6
Lawful Evil|1|Neutral Evil|2|Chaotic Evil|1
[/table]
Challenge Rating: 17

{table=head]CR|Votes
1|0
2|0
3|1
4|0
5|0
6|0
7|0
8|5
9|1
10|1
11|4
12|0
13|0
14|0
15|0
16|0
17|6
18|0
19|0
20|0
[/table]
Environment: Any

{table=head]Terrain|Votes
Any|5
Aquatic|0
Desert|2
Forest|0
Hills|0
Marsh|0
Mountains|4
Plains|0
Underground|0
Urban/Ruin|2
[/table]

{table=head]Temperature|Votes
Any|9
Cold|2
Temperate|0
Warm|2
[/table]
Special Abilities: Angelic Chorus, Breath Weapon, Fear Aura, & Fly Speed

{table=head]Special Ability|Votes
Ability Damage|0
Ability Drain|0
Alternate Form|0
Antimagic|0
Blindsight/Blindsense|0
Breath Weapon|3
Change Shape|0
Charm/Compulsion|1
Cold Immunity|0
Constrict|0
Damage Reduction|0
Darkvision|0
Death Attacks|0
Disease|0
Energy Drain/Negative Levels|0
Etherealness|0
Evasion/Improved Evasion|0
Fast Healing|1
Fear Aura (Su)|5
Fear Cones (Sp)/Rays (Su)|1
Frightful Presence (Ex)|0
Fire Immunity|0
Gaseous Form|0
Gaze Attacks|0
Improved Grab|0
Incorporeality|0
Invisibility|1
Level Loss|0
Low-Light Vision|0
Manufactured Weapons|0
Movement Modes (Burrow/Climb/Fly/Swim)|5
Natural Weapons (Bite/Claw/Gore/etc)|0
Nonabilities|0
Paralysis|0
Poison|0
Polymorph|0
Pounce|0
Powerful Charge|0
Psionics|0
Rake|0
Rays|0
Regeneration|1
Resistance To Energy|0
Scent|0
Sonic Attacks|0
Spell Immunity|0
Spell Resistance|0
Spells/SLAs|2
Summon|0
Swallow Whole|1
Telepathy|1
Trample|0
Tremorsense|0
Turn Resistance|0
Vulnerability to Energy|0
Angelic Chorus (NEW!)|8[/table]

All votes have been tallied. Voting is concluded at this point. The resultant creature, the Deus ex Machina has been posted. Thanks to everyone who voted.

Lord_Gareth
2008-10-07, 09:48 AM
I'd like to see a Fey (Angel) creature; I like the idea of angels as messengers, and the elaborate courts of Faerie would certainly have their share of those.

Plus, y'know, I'm sick of goody-two-shoes angels.

AstralFire
2008-10-07, 09:52 AM
I'd like to see a Fey (Angel) creature; I like the idea of angels as messengers, and the elaborate courts of Faerie would certainly have their share of those.

Plus, y'know, I'm sick of goody-two-shoes angels.

I like Lord Gareth's idea, though goody-two-shoes are apparently too good for him.

Lord_Gareth
2008-10-07, 09:53 AM
Hey, hey, I play plenty of paladins who are honest-to-god good people. I just don't like seeing angels, a major figure of both purity AND foulness, being dumbed down to just purity.

AstralFire
2008-10-07, 09:55 AM
Hey, hey, I play plenty of paladins who are honest-to-god good people. I just don't like seeing angels, a major figure of both purity AND foulness, being dumbed down to just purity.

Only fallen angels are really symbols of foulness prior to the modern era... the rest is the result of syncretism mostly.

Now, if you mean a profane (as in, not sacred - mundane would be a good word) messenger who isn't high and mighty, sounds cool.

streakster
2008-10-07, 10:07 AM
Monstrous Humanoid.

What can I say? It sounds interesting.

Maroon
2008-10-07, 10:23 AM
Monstrous Humanoid (Aquatic, Fire).

Emperor Demonking
2008-10-07, 10:25 AM
Magical Beat * *

afroakuma
2008-10-07, 10:45 AM
Magical Beat * *

A music monster? Didn't know they had a separate type (:smallbiggrin:)

I'll vote Construct (Angel, Cold)

If you can do THAT, I will be most impressed.

(It's the slaad - they've got me thinking like they do.)

Adumbration
2008-10-07, 10:47 AM
Ooze (swarm). That's something I'd like to see.

Pronounceable
2008-10-07, 10:54 AM
Yeah, I want an ooze this time. But swarm doesn't really fit oozes, and angelic is too awesome to pass right now.

afroakuma
2008-10-07, 10:54 AM
Adumbration: bloodboater, Fiend Folio. Check it out.

MammonAzrael
2008-10-07, 11:03 AM
Damnit afroakuma, that's what I was thinking! Well...partly what I was thinking.

My vote: Construct (angel, incorporeal)

Inyssius Tor
2008-10-07, 01:28 PM
Angel is a given, of course, and I'll also throw in a vote for Fey (Augmented Construct). Best of both worlds!

afroakuma
2008-10-07, 01:31 PM
Sorry Mammon. My lack of a life makes me the ultimate ninja. :smallbiggrin:

Reptilius
2008-10-07, 02:01 PM
Vote for Plant (shapechanger).

RTGoodman
2008-10-07, 02:38 PM
I love these things!

Sorry to rain on parades, but by RAW Angels have to be Outsiders (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#angelSubtype). If Zeta Kai is okay changing it that's fine, but I just thought I'd point it out.

I'm going with Construct (Cold, Swarm).

AstralFire
2008-10-07, 02:41 PM
Sorry to rain on parades, but by RAW Angels have to be Outsiders (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#angelSubtype).


:eek:

:frown:

:annoyed:

:mad:

:furious:

Your face is an Outsider!

Zeta Kai
2008-10-07, 02:53 PM
:eek:

:frown:

:annoyed:

:mad:

:furious:

Your face is an Outsider!

Best post EVAR.

RTG is correct, though. If the votes swing that way, we'll have to resolve it in some fashion. I prefer to work within the RAW, but as always, the quality of the monster is paramount.

By the way, all votes are currently tallied. Please continue voting for the type/subtype.

arguskos
2008-10-07, 03:33 PM
Construct [Cold, Swarm]

I would vote Construct [Angel] but that doesn't really work too well. >_>

-argus

AstralFire
2008-10-07, 03:36 PM
Construct [Cold, Swarm]

I would vote Construct [Angel] but that doesn't really work too well. >_>

-argus

http://www.reigninggifts.com/images/prodimages/light/GardenAngelStatue7036503.jpg

afroakuma
2008-10-07, 03:52 PM
Well played, AstralFire.

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-07, 04:02 PM
Undead [Good, Air]

I think it has potential.

FoeHammer
2008-10-07, 04:32 PM
http://www.reigninggifts.com/images/prodimages/light/GardenAngelStatue7036503.jpg

Need I say more? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Doctor_Who_monsters_and_aliens#Weeping_Ang els)

Owrtho
2008-10-07, 05:09 PM
I'll vote for Ooze (Augmented, Incorporeal)

Owrtho

Mr.Bookworm
2008-10-07, 05:24 PM
I'd like to put my vote in for a Aberration [Good].

Can't remember seeing one in WotC-material, so it could be interesting.

Ignore vote, vote changed in later post.

Lord_Gareth
2008-10-07, 05:24 PM
RTG is correct, though. If the votes swing that way, we'll have to resolve it in some fashion. I prefer to work within the RAW, but as always, the quality of the monster is paramount.



Psst...we're homebrewers. We can tell RAW to screw itself in some situations. This is one of them :smallsmile:

streakster
2008-10-07, 05:26 PM
I'd like to put my vote in for a Aberration [Good].

Can't remember seeing one in WotC-material, so it could be interesting.

Take a look at the Gatekeeper...

KKL
2008-10-07, 05:36 PM
Vermin Construct

SERIOUSLY

AetherFox
2008-10-07, 05:48 PM
Ooze (swarm). That's something I'd like to see.

I second this. Wrath of the Jell-o cubes!

But seriously, it'd be very interesting.

Mr.Bookworm
2008-10-07, 05:56 PM
Take a look at the Gatekeeper...

Well, howabout that.

Okay, then.

Change my vote to Construct [Angel].

Give him Paladin levels and make his wings take the form of fire coming out of his shoes...

afroakuma
2008-10-07, 06:05 PM
Cold, bookworm. Cold is the awesome.

And KKL - what? um... what?

You can have a type with traits of another type, perhaps, but not two types.

Icewalker
2008-10-07, 06:18 PM
Ok, this is good...I saw the Gatekeeper and it was awesome.

I say we create a swarm of angelic constructs.

Zeta Kai
2008-10-07, 07:25 PM
Vermin Construct

Unfortunately, I can only accept 1 type per vote, so until you clarify yourself, I cannot count your vote, as it would not be fair to other voters.


Cold, bookworm.

What do you mean by bookworm? Vermin? I'm not sure, so I only counted the Cold subtype for you until you clarify yourself.



Ok, this is good...I saw the Gatekeeper and it was awesome.

I'm glad that you like the Gatekeepers. Comments are always welcome (especially on the original thread).


I say we create a swarm of angelic constructs.

So you are voting for Construct (Angel, Swarm)? I'll assume so.

BTW, all votes are tallied. Voting on type/subtype will continue until tomorrow morning.

afroakuma
2008-10-07, 07:35 PM
Zeta, I already voted for Construct (angel, cold)

I was kidding Mr. Bookworm to pick cold instead of fire, on the grounds that it's "cooler"

Mr.Bookworm
2008-10-07, 07:39 PM
Construct [Angel] actually.

I just took the opportunity to make a Robocop joke, as the world does not have enough of those.

Lord_Gareth
2008-10-07, 08:07 PM
Someone please outvote ooze; I do NOT want to see an Ooze [Angel] here.

streakster
2008-10-07, 08:12 PM
Someone please outvote ooze; I do NOT want to see an Ooze [Angel] here.

I thought Construct was in the lead.

KKL
2008-10-08, 01:03 AM
And KKL - what? um... what?

You can have a type with traits of another type, perhaps, but not two types.

Unfortunately, I can only accept 1 type per vote, so until you clarify yourself, I cannot count your vote, as it would not be fair to other voters.

Apologies, sometimes I'm stupid, and sometimes I'm stupid. I probably read the Type column twice by mistake.

In any case, Vermin Angel.

arguskos
2008-10-08, 04:51 AM
http://www.reigninggifts.com/images/prodimages/light/GardenAngelStatue7036503.jpg
....fair 'nuff. I stand corrected! :smallcool:

-argus

Zeta Kai
2008-10-08, 08:05 AM
Alright, the votes are completely tallied, & the winner is:
Construct (Angel)!

So, the creature is going to be an Construct, with the Angelic subtype. This already sounds like it's going to be an interesting one. So next, I need you guys (& girls) to vote on the creature's Size (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#bigandLittleCreatu resInCombat). Votes will be tallied regularly. Please only vote for 1 size, thank you.

Lord_Gareth
2008-10-08, 08:06 AM
My vote goes to Large - big enough to be impressive without being rediculous.

AstralFire
2008-10-08, 08:06 AM
Medium. Weird sizes mean more headache.

Adumbration
2008-10-08, 08:09 AM
I'd say Diminutive. Like a christmas tree decoration.

streakster
2008-10-08, 08:11 AM
Medium for me as well.

Mr.Bookworm
2008-10-08, 09:21 AM
Colossal.

I need to compensate for having a small nose.

Szilard
2008-10-08, 09:29 AM
Small, so it could sneak up and still be a threat to something.

Maroon
2008-10-08, 09:50 AM
Thirding Medium.

arguskos
2008-10-08, 10:30 AM
I'll toss a Medium at it.

-argus

Xallace
2008-10-08, 10:33 AM
I vote Large.

Pronounceable
2008-10-08, 11:08 AM
No ooze again? Why don't people like oozes? What's NOT to like?
...
Medium is good. Medium never gets picked in these things.

RTGoodman
2008-10-08, 12:12 PM
I was gonna go with Medium, but Large means it isn't unwieldy but is still big enough to inspire fear and awe.

afroakuma
2008-10-08, 12:49 PM
The Medium is the message.

KKL
2008-10-08, 04:06 PM
Medium. Sizes are wonky.

kopout
2008-10-08, 04:15 PM
as for size i would go withe fine

Inyssius Tor
2008-10-08, 04:16 PM
Medium. I'm hoping for some sort of dextrous, swashbuckling type.

MammonAzrael
2008-10-08, 04:41 PM
Well, I'm going to toss my vote in for Large (even though I'm thinking Medium already has this in the bag)

A diminutive Christmas tree ornament would be awesome...especially if it got a huge CR!

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-08, 04:57 PM
I'll save my Fine and Diminutive votes for Vote Up a Monster #3: Vote Free or Die Hard.
My vote goes to Medium. You win this time Old Man Willow...

Heliomance
2008-10-08, 08:36 PM
Fine.
Characters

Dracomortis
2008-10-08, 09:12 PM
Throw my vote on the Medium bandwagon.

Zeta Kai
2008-10-09, 09:30 AM
Alright, the votes for Size are tallied, & the winner is: Medium!

So, the creature is going to be an Construct, with the Angelic subtype. It's Size is going to be Medium. This sounds like it's going to be a very interesting one. So next, I need you guys (& girls) to vote on the creature's Alignment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm#theNineAlignments). Votes will be tallied regularly. Please only vote for only 1 alignment, & please don't debate alignments, thank you.

Lord_Gareth
2008-10-09, 09:33 AM
My vote goes for Lawful Nuetral - angels are typically very dutiful creatures, and constructs in general tend to be neither good nor evil.

streakster
2008-10-09, 09:37 AM
Constructs tend to be lawful.
Angels tend to be good.

Therefore, I vote Chaotic Evil.

Inyssius Tor
2008-10-09, 09:46 AM
Constructs tend to be lawful.
Angels tend to be good.

Therefore, I vote Chaotic Evil.

Ditto.

(Not "in thrall to the forces of cosmic evil", though. We have enough of those. Just a tendency toward chaotic evil acts and philosophies.)

EDIT: NEVER MIND, changed my vote, see below.

Szilard
2008-10-09, 09:54 AM
I'm gonna go with Lawfull Neutral, maybe it could be a inevitable type thing...

Inyssius Tor
2008-10-09, 09:57 AM
Nooooo! Don't we already have enough inevitables? And in that case, why would it have to be an angel? Lawful neutral is so overdone...

afroakuma
2008-10-09, 09:59 AM
I've personally overseen the Inevitables stack-up. I'm going Neutral Good on this one.

Lord_Gareth
2008-10-09, 10:05 AM
I wasn't thinking of an Inevitable at all; just something very actively devoted to its purpose.

Mr.Bookworm
2008-10-09, 10:18 AM
Lawful Evil, as I believe most angels are CG.

Lawful Evil is the alignment that makes evil awesome, anyway.

EDIT: Changed vote in later post.

Baron Corm
2008-10-09, 10:19 AM
In D&D angels are celestials. Good Outsiders. Making an angel a Lawful Neutral Construct is like making a demon or devil a Lawful Neutral Construct. Or making a dog a humanoid. It just doesn't make sense. I think you guys should sort out right now how you're going to get past that.

Lord_Gareth
2008-10-09, 10:22 AM
Like this - we're homebrewers, and therefore completely unbeholden to WotC "standards". In all honesty, half the fun of homebrew is getting to answer the "what if?" questions and the other half is getting to make things because you want to make them. Why shouldn't we have an angelic construct?

streakster
2008-10-09, 10:29 AM
In D&D angels are celestials. Good Outsiders. Making an angel a Lawful Neutral Construct is like making a demon or devil a Lawful Neutral Construct. Or making a dog a humanoid. It just doesn't make sense. I think you guys should sort out right now how you're going to get past that.

Ahem.

"And LO,did Memnon of Aegis, mightiest of all angels in the host, fall. For he had sullied his flesh with steel, and his eyes with crystal. And, cast out, his madness grew. And he created a body of orichalcum, and wings of alabaster, and eyes of purest diamond. And he proclaimed himself the arbiter of neutrality, the line between Good and Evil, Black and White. So was the rise of Memnon the Grey."

See? It's easy.

And the humanoid dog just needs the Anthromorphic Template...

afroakuma
2008-10-09, 10:37 AM
@ flyingpoo22: Retriever.

That is all.

Maroon
2008-10-09, 11:26 AM
Chaotic Neutral. Just because.

AstralFire
2008-10-09, 11:32 AM
I'm voting for Chaotic Neutral. CN is a pretty neglected alignment (as noted with the Slaad) and a chaotic construct would be pretty cool!

Evil angels, though. Clichepolis.

Inyssius Tor
2008-10-09, 11:43 AM
I'm voting for Chaotic Neutral. CN is a pretty neglected alignment (as noted with the Slaad) and a chaotic construct would be pretty cool!

Evil angels, though. Clichepolis.

Ooh, bit of a point there. I'll just go with Any Chaotic, then.

Pronounceable
2008-10-09, 12:39 PM
Let's try to encourage NG here. Let's see some love and peace.

RTGoodman
2008-10-09, 12:42 PM
I'm going with (True) Neutral.

Szilard
2008-10-09, 12:46 PM
I think I'll change my vote from LN to LE.

Zeta Kai
2008-10-09, 01:00 PM
Ooh, bit of a point there. I'll just go with Any Chaotic, then.

Can you be more specific please?

afroakuma
2008-10-09, 01:06 PM
I think he's trying to vote for each of CG, CN and CE. Not allowable, I take it?

Magnor Criol
2008-10-09, 01:16 PM
Actually, I think he's going for the alignment entry "Any chaotic" (or more commonly, "Always chaotic (any)" ) - as in, this monster could be any of the chaotic alignments. Just like, for example, the titan (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/titan.htm).

I'll actually put my vote in for something similar, if you'll allow votes like that, Master Kai - I'd like t ovote for Always Neutral (Any), since I'm sort of imagining this angel-construct being built by any planar agency that needs it, and thus it'll be mostly neutral but with a tinge of whatever built it.

If you want something more specific...I'll vote for Neutral Good.

vegetalss4
2008-10-09, 01:33 PM
LN did you konw that the above is to short to be posted?

Inyssius Tor
2008-10-09, 01:37 PM
Actually, I think he's going for the alignment entry "Any chaotic" (or more commonly, "Always chaotic (any)" ) - as in, this monster could be any of the chaotic alignments. Just like, for example, the titan (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/titan.htm).

That's a tempting idea, but what I was actually trying for was this: If, sans me, the tally is tied between a chaotic alignment and a non-chaotic one, put me down for the chaotic one. Otherwise, just ignore me.

afroakuma
2008-10-09, 01:56 PM
LN angel construct...

I hope he's not going to steal my Infallible idea...

Dracomortis
2008-10-09, 02:34 PM
This is a tough one, but I'm going to have to go with lawful neutral. I like streakster's description of an arbiter of neutrality who devotes himself to the balance between good and evil as a way of life, instead of a case of "I'm neutral because I don't care about one or the other".

Lochar
2008-10-09, 02:47 PM
Chaotic Neutral

FoeHammer
2008-10-09, 03:30 PM
Neutral Evil

MammonAzrael
2008-10-09, 05:33 PM
Neutral Evil! It's only out for itself!

Icewalker
2008-10-09, 06:07 PM
I'll add another vote for Lawful Neutral.

So...why can't it be a swarm too? Got 5 votes.

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-09, 09:18 PM
Chaotic Neutral. Cause every once in awhile, chaotic neutral is chaotic evil in disguise. Even if it is a Robot Angel.

Also, Zeta, would you mind if I tried to get my act together to start up a Vote Up a Monster for 4e sometime next week? I'll have to think of a way for the voting to work, but it would be fun (that, and I'm always at a loss for cool monster ideas).

Reptilius
2008-10-09, 09:26 PM
Neutral Good. Otherwise it seems kind of weird. Well, weirder than it already is.

Mr.Bookworm
2008-10-09, 09:31 PM
Okay, switch my vote to Chaotic Neutral.

My second choice, which has a chance of winning.

Zeta Kai
2008-10-09, 10:42 PM
@ Icewalker: Swarm was not as clear a winner as Angel, & it's a lot more complicated. I'm already facing the task of statting out an Angelic Construct, & so far, it doesn't even look like it's gonna be Good.

@ Shadow_Elf: By all means, go ahead. You can use these first 2 as a guideline, if you wish. I will change the title to specify that this is a 3.X thread as soon as I see yours come up. I'll keep the same numbering scheme, though, if you don't mind. I look forward to voting on yours.

@ Mr.Bookworm: I changed your vote, but I must ask that people stick to their votes. If you can't commit to alignment, the DM is gonna assign you one. :smallamused: I take the effort to update the vote tallies, & it makes it harder when people change their minds (especially when you don't mention what your original vote, forcing me to go find it :smallmad:).

afroakuma
2008-10-09, 10:54 PM
Zeta, I think I know how you feel about this already, but it seems that all part-neutral alignments are seeing quite a bit of action. (Except for neutral evil.) A good argument could be made for having this creature be "Any neutral."

That said, I assume you still wish to stick to one alignment?

Knaight
2008-10-09, 10:55 PM
Tossing in another NG.

Adumbration
2008-10-09, 11:46 PM
Chaotic Neutral For me.

KKL
2008-10-10, 12:33 AM
Neutral Good.

Terror_Incognito
2008-10-10, 02:03 AM
Neutral Good

jcsw
2008-10-10, 02:13 AM
Lawful Neutral

Zeta Kai
2008-10-10, 10:45 AM
Alright, the votes for Alignment are tallied, & the winner is (by a nose): Neutral Good!

So, the creature is going to be an Construct, with the Angelic subtype. It's Size is going to be Medium. It's Alignment is good to be Neutral Good. This sounds like it's going to be a very, very interesting critter. So next, I need you guys (& girls) to vote on the creature's Challenge Rating (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#challengeRating). Votes will be tallied regularly. Please only vote for only 1 CR, & please don't vote for epic CR's (IE, CR>20) or CR's lower than 1 (the creature is an Angelic Construct, after all), thank you.

afroakuma
2008-10-10, 10:55 AM
Victory is ours! And with this victory, a new CR 11 dawns!

Dracomortis
2008-10-10, 11:21 AM
I'll throw my vote behind CR 11. Angels tend to be in the higher levels anyway, and I somehow don't see an angel construct being anything less than challenging.

Adumbration
2008-10-10, 11:23 AM
CR 3. Just becouse.

Mr.Bookworm
2008-10-10, 11:31 AM
CR 17.

Seventeen's a nice, prime number.

Magnor Criol
2008-10-10, 11:31 AM
Hum, an angelic construct with a CR of less than one. Weird thought.

At the risk of being accused of bandwagonry, I'll vote for CR 11 as well; that seems a nice round number. Not too high, which means these things could still be produced on a large-ish scale by...whoever's producing them, and not unreasonably low.

MammonAzrael
2008-10-10, 11:34 AM
Bandwagonry! Bandwagonry!!!!

I'll throw my vote into CR 17, to combat the bandwagonry of 11.

RTGoodman
2008-10-10, 12:17 PM
Seeing as how almost no one plays at those high CRs, I'm gonna got for CR 8 - it's usable by even level 5 parties but still isn't a pushover.

Lord_Gareth
2008-10-10, 12:26 PM
I'll have to throw my vote behind CR 11 as well - most campaigns don't ever get to 12 or greater.

afroakuma
2008-10-10, 12:30 PM
Bandwagonry! Bandwagonry!!!!

I don't know if I'm still a bandwagon or if I getto be a cartel now. Muahahahah.

RTG: funny you mention that... my logic was similar, but for level 8 parties.

Pronounceable
2008-10-10, 12:49 PM
Neutral good, angelic construct. Screams CR8 to me.

AstralFire
2008-10-10, 01:04 PM
I'm voting for 8, usable at a wider range, can always throw on HD or class levels to increase the CR.

Xallace
2008-10-10, 01:06 PM
I'll give it a CR10.

streakster
2008-10-10, 01:16 PM
CR 17, carry me home...

Knaight
2008-10-10, 04:38 PM
9. 11 works, but its a bit high, this puts the construct into middle inevitable territory.

Inyssius Tor
2008-10-10, 04:38 PM
I'm voting for 8, usable at a wider range, can always throw on HD or class levels to increase the CR.

CR 8, because I like playing in the 3-9 level range.

afroakuma
2008-10-10, 04:43 PM
Knaight: That's early Inevitable territory now. :smallcool:

Icewalker
2008-10-10, 05:58 PM
I'll go with CR 8 as well.

shadowxknight
2008-10-10, 06:02 PM
CR 17
I want a powerful giant-sword-wielding Robo Angel :smallbiggrin:

KKL
2008-10-10, 06:28 PM
CR 17 because 17 is a prime number and I like it.

Fako
2008-10-10, 06:38 PM
I vote for 17 as well, as I can't see a robotic angel being anything less...

Zeta Kai
2008-10-11, 05:27 PM
Alright, the votes for Challenge Rating are tallied, & the winner is: CR17!

So, the creature is going to be an Construct, with the Angelic subtype. It's Size is going to be Medium. It's Alignment is going to be Neutral Good. It's CR is going to be 17. This sounds like it's going to be a very, very, very interesting critter. So next, I need you guys (& girls) to vote on the creature's Environment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/wilderness.htm). Votes will be tallied regularly. Please only vote for 1 terrain & 1 temperature, thank you.

afroakuma
2008-10-11, 05:35 PM
Cold Mountains (Twin Paradises of Bytopia)

If I'm allowed to file a planar option for it, of course.

AstralFire
2008-10-11, 05:35 PM
Warm Desert. Deserts are underappreciated.

shadowxknight
2008-10-11, 05:47 PM
Any.

Robot Angels should be able to go anywhere.

KKL
2008-10-11, 05:53 PM
It's hard to choose between Mountains and Urban...

Mountains.

Mr.Bookworm
2008-10-11, 06:07 PM
Any Urban/Ruin.

Because Urban/Ruin creatures are cool.

Lord_Gareth
2008-10-11, 06:55 PM
I'm also going to say Any Urban/Ruin - I'm seeing a guardian-type shaping up here.

Pronounceable
2008-10-11, 07:23 PM
Any. There's no stopping an angelic robot.

RTGoodman
2008-10-11, 09:04 PM
Cold Mountains - we've already had Urban, and a desolate, snow-capped crag seems like a cool place for a robo-angel to be (perhaps in self-imposed exile or something).

Szilard
2008-10-11, 09:59 PM
Any. It is a robot.

Magnor Criol
2008-10-12, 12:30 AM
Any / Any. I imagine this guy being built to go on missions, so it should be able to go anywhere.

Adumbration
2008-10-12, 01:59 AM
Any, mountains.

Mattarias, King.
2008-10-12, 02:19 AM
Ooh, warm deserts! They're sweet. :smallbiggrin:

Xallace
2008-10-12, 10:39 AM
Add one in for Any environment and temperature.

Zeta Kai
2008-10-12, 11:01 AM
Alright, the votes for Environment are tallied, & the winner is: Any!

So, the creature is going to be an Construct, with the Angelic subtype. It's Size is going to be Medium. It's Alignment is going to be Neutral Good. It's CR is going to be 17. It's Environment is going to be Any. This sounds like it's going to be a crazy interesting critter. So lastly, I need you guys (& girls) to vote on the creature's Special Abilities (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/specialAbilities.htm). Votes will be tallied regularly. Please only vote for 2 Special Abilities maximum, thank you.

afroakuma
2008-10-12, 11:14 AM
Breath weapon and spell-like abilities

Edit: Cathedralform!!!

Tempest Fennac
2008-10-12, 11:19 AM
I'd like to pick Regeneration and Spell-Like Abilitieswhich are concerned with self-buffing and battlefield control.

AstralFire
2008-10-12, 11:51 AM
Flight and Breath Weapon

afroakuma
2008-10-12, 11:53 AM
(You'd think it would fly anyway...)

Lord_Gareth
2008-10-12, 12:21 PM
Flight, and, in the tradition of the last contest, I'd like to submit one of my own.

Angelic Chorous (Su) - The [ANGELIC CONSTRUCT] radiates an aura of celestial music that bolsters the righteous and maddens the wicked. Any good creature within 20 feet of the [ANGELIC CONSTRUCT] who hear the music gains a +4 morale bonus on all attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws, as well as a +2 to the save DCs of their supernatural or spell-like abilities. Evil creatures within 20 feet of the [ANGELIC CONSTRUCT] who hear the music must succeed at a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 [ANGELIC CONSTRUCT]'s hit dice + [ANGELIC CONSTRUCT]'s charisma modifier) or go berserk as per the rage spell. Those who succeed at their save instead recieve a -4 morale penalty on all attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws. This is a sonic, mind-affecting ability.

Xallace
2008-10-12, 12:24 PM
Fear Aura and Fear Cones/Rays.

As much as I love Breath Weapons, I don't think it fits the creature concept too well.
And I figure it's already going to fly, so let it rain down Fear-based attacks upon the craven.

Zeta Kai
2008-10-12, 12:56 PM
Angelic Chorus

You just can't color within the lines, can you? :smallwink:

Well, I hope you like what I did with Cathedral Form for the Gatekeeper. I had to make a few minor changes & add some extra explanatory text, for clarity. The core of the idea was unchanged.

BTW, all votes are currently tallied.

Lord_Gareth
2008-10-12, 01:03 PM
That'd be fine if anyone voted for it ^_^

streakster
2008-10-12, 01:09 PM
Lord Gareth's Angelic Chorus and Breath Weapon

RTGoodman
2008-10-12, 01:13 PM
Aw, I hate having to pick just two. Let's try Fear Aura and Telepathy.

KKL
2008-10-12, 01:14 PM
Flight and Fast Healing. Or if Flight comes with the package, have it be Fast Helaing and the Angelic Chorus.

Have the Angelic Chorus come out from chest mounted speakers. Please.

shadowxknight
2008-10-12, 01:21 PM
I think flight probably comes with the package, so I pick Manufactured Weapons and Angelic Chorus.

It'll be like a moving weapons factory that buffs!

EDIT: Shouldn't it have more abilities due to the relatively high CR?
EDIT2: Ya I reread Angelic Chorus and noticed it only buffs good creatures:smallsigh:

afroakuma
2008-10-12, 01:25 PM
er... that wouldn't work. If the creature is inherently evil, it would still get rage instead of the buff.

Zeta Kai
2008-10-12, 01:37 PM
Aw, I hate having to pick just two.

Shouldn't it have more abilities due to the relatively high CR?

I will probably use more than 2 of the highest-voted abilities. The voting is restricted so that everyone's vote is counted equally. I don't want to reward voters who can't make up their minds & just choose a dozen things. It keeps voters focused, so they choose their favorites.

As for flight, it depends on the votes.

Mr.Bookworm
2008-10-12, 02:00 PM
Another vote for Angelic Chorus, and I'll say Spell Immunity: Evil, or immune to any spell cast by an evil spellcaster or with the [Evil] descriptor..

IGNORE THE CROSSED OUT PART

Pronounceable
2008-10-12, 02:26 PM
Fear aura. It's just right. And pairing it with invisibility would be so much better. Just by standing idly doing nothing, it can send the baddies packing. They won't even know what hit em...

Mr.Bookworm
2008-10-12, 04:32 PM
I had an idea while I was away, so change my vote for Spell Immunity to Fear Aura.

Dracomortis
2008-10-12, 08:01 PM
Fly speed and angelic chorus.

Kellus
2008-10-12, 11:44 PM
Angelic Chorus and Swallow Whole.

Zeta Kai
2008-10-13, 12:37 AM
Angelic Chorus and Swallow Whole.

You do realize this thing's size is Medium, right?

BTW, all votes are currently tallied, keep it up. Voting will end sometime tomorrow morning, I believe.

Kellus
2008-10-13, 12:56 AM
You do realize this thing's size is Medium, right?

Yes. Someone has to keep the Diminutive and Fine yugoloths in line. :smallwink:

vegetalss4
2008-10-13, 05:21 AM
angelic chorus and Fear aura

Zeta Kai
2008-10-13, 08:14 AM
Alright, the votes for Special Abilities are tallied, & the winner is: Angelic Chorus, Breath Weapon, Fear Aura, & Fly Speed!

So, the creature is going to be an Construct, with the Angelic subtype. It's Size is going to be Medium. It's Alignment is going to be Neutral Good. It's CR is going to be 17. It's Environment is going to be Any. It's Special Abilities are going to be Angelic Chorus, Breath Weapon, Fear Aura, & Fly Speed. This sounds like it's going to be an insanely interesting critter.

Voting is concluded at this point. The resultant creature is being crafted, & will be posted on Thursday, October 16th. Thanks to everyone who voted.

Lord_Gareth
2008-10-13, 08:59 AM
Yay, my ability made it in!

*Dances*

Xallace
2008-10-13, 09:37 AM
Man, can't wait to see this. I wonder how Fear Aura and Angelic Chorus are going to interact.

Lord_Gareth
2008-10-13, 09:49 AM
Evil beings that fail their saves vs. both will have their heads explode from sheer righteous intimidation?

Xallace
2008-10-13, 09:52 AM
Evil beings that fail their saves vs. both will have their heads explode from sheer righteous intimidation?

I think "awesome" is an applicable word here, for several definitions.

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-13, 06:26 PM
Darn, I was at my cottage this weekend and look what happens! Voting is over...

I wanted it to have laser vision :smallfrown:

Zeta Kai
2008-10-15, 09:50 AM
I'm sorry, SE. If it makes you feel better, I will be starting a third one after this one is complete.

Zeta Kai
2008-10-15, 09:51 AM
I'm sorry, but I just could wait until tomorrow to post this one. It's ready, & I'm too excited to hold it back any longer.

As promised, I am proud to present the monster that you all voted for. Without further ado, I give you the Deus ex Machina.

Zeta Kai
2008-10-15, 09:55 AM
“God moves in a mysterious way, His wonders to perform;
He plants His footsteps in the sea, and rides upon the storm.”
- Light Shining out of Darkness by William Cowper, 1779

Deus ex Machina

http://teamster.usc.edu/~dteam/images/art/ANGEL.GIF
An early model of D.E.M., caught in a moment of surprise.

Medium Construct (Angelic)
Hit Dice: 24d10+20 (152HP)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 40’ (8 squares), Fly 120’ (24 squares, good maneuverability)
Armor Class: 27 (+3 Dex, +14 natural); touch 13; flat-footed 24
Base Attack/Grapple: +18/+26
Attack: +3 holy greatsword +29 melee (2d6+11, 19-20/×2) or Slam +26 melee (1d6+8)
Full Attack: +3 holy greatsword +29/+24/+19/+14 melee (2d6+11, 19-20/×2) or 2 Slams +26 melee (1d6+8)
Space/Reach: 5’/5’
Special Attacks: Angelic Chorus, Breath Weapon, Fear Aura
Special Qualities: Angelic traits, Construct traits
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +11, Will +10
Abilities: Str 26 (+8), Dex 17 (+3), Con -- (+0), Int 12 (+1), Wis 14 (+2), Cha 19 (+4)
Skills: Balance +12, Climb +17, Intimidate +13, Jump +21, Listen +11, Search +10, Sense Motive +11, Spot +14
Feats: Cleave, Dodge, Flyby Attack, Great Cleave, Hover (Bonus), Improved Flyby Attack, Mobility, Power Attack, Skill Focus (Spot), Spring Attack, Wingover
Environment: Any
Organization: solitary, pair, choir (3-12), or concert (13-60)
Challenge Rating: 17
Treasure: No coins; double goods; standard items
Alignment: always Neutral Good
Advancement: 25-36HD (Medium), 37-48HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: N/A

The being before at first looked like a lovely young woman with large feathered wings. Upon closer inspection, however, the creature is revealed to be some sort of automaton. Its slender, curvy frame has obviously-artificial seems & mechanical joints. Its wings are not made of feathers, but are constructed of many pieces of shaped metal. Most unnatural of all, though, is its motionless & implacable face, finely crafted like that of a child’s doll.

Not all angelic beings are Outsiders. Indeed, beings of nearly every type have the potential to be suffused with holy energy. A prime example of this are the Dei ex Machina (singular Deus ex Machina), ardent defenders of all that is Good that just happen to be Constructs.

Originally crafted by Moradin himself in the Soul Forges of Erackinor, the Dei ex Machina (or D.E.M.s, for short) were designed to bolster the ranks of the armies of Good, in preparation for a potential showdown with the forces of Evil, specifically the Yugoloths. Moradin crafted the D.E.M.s in his mansion on the fourth layer of Celestia, Solania, with the help of his most talented dwarven petitioners. They worked for untold ages, perfecting the Constructs to be nearly perfect in every detail, with as much intricacy as a Humanoid being. Once their labors were complete, Moradin & his servants sent the D.E.M.s to be educated & trained by the petitioners of Pelor, on Elysium. Thus, the Deus ex Machina became paragons of Good above all else, indifferent to the concerns of Law or Chaos.

The D.E.M.s today patrol the entire multiverse, righting wrongs & combating the forces of Evil wherever they may be found. They are tireless servitors of ultimate goodness, doing good deeds & undoing evil ones without rest or mercy. They are rarely seen on the Material Plane, mostly because they are more frequently needed elsewhere, but when they do appear in mortal lands, their blessed voices sing an elegy of all that oppose them.

Most models of Dei ex Machina are around 6’ tall, & weigh about 400 pounds. All D.E.M.s are genderless, although most of them have an outer chassis that is shaped like one gender or the other; the majority of these appear to be female in shape. D.E.M.s can live indefinitely, & in fact many are several thousand years old. All D.E.M.s speak Celestial & Common as their native languages, although with their Tongues ability (see Angelic traits, below), they may converse with nearly any creature that has a language.

Combat
A Deus ex Machina is a valiant warrior for the cause of Good, & as such, it is completely fearless in battle. It will enter combat with Evil beings without hesitation, often employing its breath weapon as an opening attack. It will then attempt to keep its enemies within range of its Angelic Chorus, demoralizing its opponents with hallowed song. If combat is at close range, it will employ its Fear Aura while hacking away at foes with its holy greatsword or slamming them with its metallic wings. A D.E.M. usually prefers to attack from above, so it will remain in flight as often as possible, using its many flying feats to control the battlefield.

Angelic Chorus (Su): A D.E.M. radiates an aura of celestial music that bolsters the righteous & maddens the wicked. Any good creature within 20’ of the Deus ex Machina who hears the music gains a +4 morale bonus on all attack rolls, damage rolls, & saving throws, as well as a +2 to the save DCs of their supernatural or spell-like abilities. Evil creatures within 20’ of the D.E.M. who hear the music must succeed at a Will save (DC26) or go berserk as per the rage spell. Those who succeed at their save instead receive a -4 morale penalty on all attack rolls, damage rolls, & saving throws. This is a sonic, mind-affecting ability. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Breath Weapon (Su): A D.E.M.’s breath weapon is usable once every 1d4+1 rounds, deals 6d8 points of electricity damage in a 40’ line, and allows a Reflex save (DC26) for half damage. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Fear Aura (Su): A D.E.M. can radiate a 10’-radius fear aura as a free action. A creature in the area must succeed on a Will save (DC26) or be affected as though by a fear spell (caster level 18th). A creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again by the same D.E.M.’s aura for 24 hours. Other creatures with the Angelic subtype are immune to the aura. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Angelic traits: All creatures with the Angelic subtype possess the following traits:

Darkvision out to 60’ & low-light vision.
Immunity to acid, cold, & petrification.
Resistance to electricity 10 & fire 10.
+4 racial bonus on saves against poison.
Protective Aura (Su): Against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures, this ability provides a +4 deflection bonus to AC & a +4 resistance bonus on saving throws to anyone within 20’ of the angel. Otherwise, it functions as a magic circle against evil effect and a lesser globe of invulnerability, both with a radius of 20’ (caster level equals angel’s HD). (The defensive benefits from the circle are not included in an angel’s statistics block.)
Tongues (Su): All angels can speak with any creature that has a language, as though using a tongues spell (caster level equal to angel’s Hit Dice). This ability is always active.

Construct traits: All creatures with the Construct type possess the following traits:

No Constitution score.
Low-light vision.
Darkvision out to 60’.
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects.
Cannot heal damage on their own, but often can be repaired by exposing them to a certain kind of effect (see the creature’s description for details) or through the use of the Craft Construct feat. A construct with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality.
Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain.
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless).
Not at risk of death from massive damage. Immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points or less.
Since it was never alive, a construct cannot be raised or resurrected.
Because its body is a mass of unliving matter, a construct is hard to destroy. It gains bonus hit points based on size, as shown on the table.
Proficient with its natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with any weapon mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with no armor.
Constructs do not eat, sleep, or breathe.

Deus ex Machina Lore
Characters who have ranks in Knowledge (Arcana) or Knowledge (The Planes) can learn more about the Dei ex Machina. When a character makes a successful skill check, the following lore is revealed, including the information from lower DC’s.

DC22: “There exists a rare breed of angel that is actually a Construct.”
DC27: “This Angelic Construct is known as a Deus ex Machina, & it is a staunch opponent of all that is Evil.”
DC32: “Called a D.E.M. for short, it can bolster allies & intimidate enemies with its Angelic Chorus.”
DC37: Characters who succeed this Knowledge check know the D.E.M.s’ origins on Celestia & Elysium, as well as the specifics of its Breath Weapon & Fear Aura.


http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p206/FinalFantasyZero/Nonbloody%20Anime/Robot_Angel.jpg
An advanced D.E.M. is floating above a scene that requires divine intervention.

AstralFire
2008-10-15, 10:05 AM
I like. It screams "avant-garde action music video" to me.

Pronounceable
2008-10-15, 10:09 AM
Awesome.

But there's a problem with the first picture: metal nipples. WHY???

afroakuma
2008-10-15, 10:10 AM
Oh God, you just had to give it that name, didn't you?

AstralFire
2008-10-15, 11:03 AM
Oh God, you just had to give it that name, didn't you?

So, what is the plural form?

afroakuma
2008-10-15, 11:22 AM
If they're all coming from the same "machina," dei ex machina. If you're looking for the most accurate general form, it's dei ex machinis.

MammonAzrael
2008-10-15, 12:04 PM
Or simply D.E.M.s to the general public. :smallamused:

Maybe I'm just used to looking at 4e numbers now, but doesn't 3d8 seem a little low on the damage scale for a CR 17? I know it's not the main focus of the creature, but shouldn't it's opening attack deal more damage or at least some type of status effect?

EDIT: Oh and this is terrific. I love it. :smallbiggrin:

afroakuma
2008-10-15, 01:13 PM
Meh; if it puts out enough of a beatdown, it's largely irrelevant. And yes, CR 17 is perfectly fine in the 2d8 range. Not to mention it'll rely on other abilities to make its case.

Lord_Gareth
2008-10-15, 01:23 PM
I LOVE it! This kicks ass!!

Zeta Kai
2008-10-15, 01:30 PM
@ All: I'm glad that you all like this one. It was a very interesting monster to create. I don't usually do Good monsters, let alone angelic ones. Since this one seems successful, I'm sure I'll be doing another VUAM soon.

@ cnsvnc: There aren't many decent pictures that come up when you google "robot angel". BTW, does your handle stand for something?

@ afroakuma: Yeah, that was a bit obvious, wasn't it? But hey, sometimes you gotta just call a cyclops a cyclops. It's a robot angel, for crying out loud. What else could I name it? :smallbiggrin:

Also, thank you for the proper plural form. I've edited the entry to include that, & credited you in the Edit line.

@ MammonAzrael: You're right; that was a typo. It was meant to be 6d8; this has been fixed. I intended it to be a relatively low-power suckerpunch attack, with its frequency of use (once every 1d4+1 rounds) being a bit of a surprise. Also it was also chosen to be lightning because electricity resistance/immunity is something almost no demon/devil/yugoloth has, & it fits the robot theme (& the smiting-from-the-gods theme, too).

@ AstralFire: Thanks for your support, as well (I don't wanna leave you out).

afroakuma
2008-10-15, 01:38 PM
Technically, machina ex deus would be more appropriate.

Or maybe deus est machina?

I should stop now.

streakster
2008-10-15, 01:42 PM
This is...excellent.

I want to create a groub of these with different class levels, and make sure to give on of them psion levels solely so I can have them yell, "Dei Ex Machina! Combine!" and have one manifest fusion.


Keep these VUAM's up. They're fantastic fun.

Xallace
2008-10-15, 01:45 PM
Robot Angel with a Breath Weapon sounds like coma-inducing awesome to me. Wonderful job, Zeta Kai. Can't wait to participate in the next one, should you decide to hold it.

afroakuma
2008-10-15, 01:49 PM
*Shrug* if he tries not to hold it, I'll just include "Zeta Kai" as an option on the next Direct My Wrath.

Zeta Kai
2008-10-15, 02:25 PM
*Shrug* if he tries not to hold it, I'll just include "Zeta Kai" as an option on the next Direct My Wrath.

What're you gonna do, homebrew me to death? :smallbiggrin:

Seriously though, the next VUAM will begin sometime this weekend. Monday at the latest.

afroakuma
2008-10-15, 02:26 PM
What're you gonna do, homebrew me to death?

If anyone could do it... /ego

Don't tempt me. :smallamused:

Zeta Kai
2008-10-15, 02:30 PM
Robot Angel with a Breath Weapon sounds like coma-inducing awesome to me. Wonderful job, Zeta Kai. Can't wait to participate in the next one, should you decide to hold it.

Hey, you guys voted for it. I just statted it out.


If anyone could do it... /ego

Don't tempt me. :smallamused:

Beware, I've tangled with brewers before... :smallwink:

afroakuma
2008-10-15, 02:32 PM
Beware, I've tangled with brewers before...

Sure, but I'm the only one who knows that the answer is Giant Frog.

I also send Inevitables.

Beware.

Zeta Kai
2008-10-15, 02:45 PM
I also send Inevitables.

I might note at this juncture that in a one-on-one fight, a Deus ex Machina could take on an Inevitable without breaking a sweat (well, if they could sweat, which they probably don't). And DEMs come in concerts.

afroakuma
2008-10-15, 02:58 PM
Galadiuts come in solitaries. :smallbiggrin:

Zuki
2008-10-15, 03:30 PM
I'm imagining some crazy kind of fight in my head between you two on a field of battle with various crazy constructs and Giant Frogs and Ack-That's-NOT-the-Giant-Frog I remember and all kinds of crazy manly punching and tears going on.

It's great.

afroakuma
2008-10-15, 03:36 PM
The ending features a chaotic orb of the absolute and Disco Shun Goku Satsu for the win.

Baron Corm
2008-10-15, 04:32 PM
I'd just like to point out for no reason that your creature should not have the [angel] subtype, but instead be a construct with angel traits, similar to how Orcus is an outsider with undead traits, or Juiblex is an outsider with ooze traits, etc. You guys can and will do whatever you want, but it's not the way to handle it according to similar published monsters. The way I would do it is homebrew the [angelic] subtype, for creatures who are similar to angels but are not angels, instead of completely changing the [angel] subtype, and thus making your creature setting-specific! I noticed you typoed the subtype as [angelic] anyway which gave me the idea. Maybe this was on purpose?

afroakuma
2008-10-15, 04:36 PM
I really don't understand your objection to this. SRD doesn't formalize agenls as outsiders - it's not included amongst their traits; rather it's in the brief descriptive text. Your argument would also invalidate neutral and evil beings being angels.

Baron Corm
2008-10-15, 04:37 PM
I really don't understand your objection to this. SRD doesn't formalize agenls as outsiders - it's not included amongst their traits; rather it's in the brief descriptive text. Your argument would also invalidate neutral and evil beings being angels.

I haven't actually searched all the monster manuals... are there evil angels?

afroakuma
2008-10-15, 04:40 PM
No, but there's no reason they couldn't exist from a flavor perspective. They don't need another tag, that's the kind of being they are. The specific line only suggests that they have to be outsiders because it clarifies the term "celestial" with its most common D&D meaning.

Baron Corm
2008-10-15, 04:54 PM
"Angels are a race of celestials"

Celestial meaning a representation of Good, fused into their very form, body and soul being one unit, Good given shape.

That's all I'm going to say further. If you want to change the definition of celestial for the creature, okey dokey. It brings up an interesting point, what if you shoved a square peg into a round hole and made an evil angel? I would probably change it to a demon, devil, or yugoloth depending on its alignment, with the custom [fallen angel] subtype or something similar. I'm just going to walk away now though.

afroakuma
2008-10-15, 04:57 PM
Again, this was for fun. It certainly doesn't slam it into one setting just because a subtype tag was used on the creature. Mroe to the point, celestials are the planar races originating from the upper planes. A fallen celestial is still a celestial - it takes more than a fall to become a fiend. It still retains the Good subtype regardless of alignment - how is Angel any different?


a representation of Good, fused into their very form, body and soul being one unit, Good given shape.

So it's made of metal Good, then.

I simply don't understand why you're having a problem with this.

Baron Corm
2008-10-15, 05:15 PM
I simply don't understand why you're having a problem with this.

Because an angel is an outsider.

I just found a Neutral Good construct. The prismatic golem from MMIII. Construct with Good subtype, alignment Neutral Good. The difference being that it is metal infused with good. It is indeed a construct, with the [good] subtype, and a good alignment. Your creature is a Construct [good outsider]. It's a type with a subtype denotating a different type.

"Made of metal Good" = "made of Good" = outsider. "Metal infused with good" = construct with good subtype. It doesn't MATTER that much to me, because it is your project, just for fun, I see that. If you can't see my point of view by now, and I can't see yours, there's no point going on arguing.

Zeta Kai
2008-10-15, 06:57 PM
If you can't see my point of view by now, and I can't see yours, there's no point going on arguing.

I see your point, & I agree, to a certain extent. But I must go where the votes take me, & try to make the best of it. In the future, I will probably restrict voting to more standard options (for example, if Outsider isn't chosen as the type, then Angel would be off the table). However, I think that this particular creature came out well, even though it technically shouldn't be possible. I hope that you like it.

afroakuma
2008-10-15, 07:13 PM
Again I must remind you of the retriever, which is a demon though a construct. It's perfectly legitimate, and indeed better for creativity purposes, to allow subtypes for any type. While I personally couldn't conceive of a Vermin angel, I'm sure someone out there could.

At worst, just give the creature a clausal ability:

Soul Construct Despite being an artificial being, the construct has all the properties of an angelic soul. It has the Angel subtype.

Lord_Gareth
2008-10-15, 07:40 PM
Don't make me write up the Savior of the Rats, CR 34 Vermin [Angel/Good/Lawful]. I'll do it.*


*No I won't.

Pronounceable
2008-10-16, 11:52 AM
Is it related to Death of Rats?

Reaper_Monkey
2008-10-17, 08:22 AM
Is it related to Death of Rats?

I hope so, love that little fella =D