The Battle for Middle Earth games thread

[warty goblin]

So I was bored last night and dropped BMFE II: Rise of the Witch King into the drive for a little bit of fun.

My first game was Goblins vs. Elves on Lorien, a map which is basically bisected by a river with only two crossing points. Each faction starts off at the top, directly opposite each other. I parked a bunch of goblin swordsmen in the upper crossing, then quickly secured the lower crossing in the same manner. There was constant fighting at the upper crossing, but I held by using the goblin's tunnel system to quickly move troops to the front, and a well placed arrow tower. This left me free to cover my side of the river with tunnels and lumber mills. While the elves were still trying to seize the upper river crossing, I expanded across the lower, taking large swaths of territory without resistance, and building what amounted to a second base. I now had complete economic and military dominance.

This was when I found the Ring, which naturally led to me deciding to build Sauron. After a lengthy build time I recalled the following:
1) Sauron looks really badass, particularly crossing a river when you've got reflections turned on and have a dragon hovering overhead.
2) He also moves very slowly.
3) On the other hand he apparently does not actually take damage. I basically walked him into the enemy's base, which he proceeded to level, with the assitance of the Balrog, who I had gotten through Mordor's Lend-Lease program, and his health bar basically never dropped.

The second game I played was 8-player on the Anduin map as the dwarves. It was very simple, good guys on one side of the river, bad guys on the other. During this game I made the following observations:
1) Dwarves are very slow. So slow in fact they make Sauron look like a speed demon. This means I spent most of my early game sending my army off in pursuit of whatever bunch of orcs was burning down my buildings this time.
2) They also apparently build their mines out of the finest in construction grade tissue paper. This means that usually my army arrives too late.
3) On the other hand, when you get them into battle, dwarves are pretty much doom incarnate. So if they ever caught up to the orcs, they would be absolutely obliterated.
4) Particularly if the dwarves are upgraded.
5) This goes double if you are talking about phalanxes against trolls.
6) Which reminds me, I am not going to think about any possible conclusions that could be drawn from sitting alone in my dorm room ordering around a group of short hairy men who keep yelling to 'keep it stiff'.
7) Damn it, those orcs are burning down my mines again!
8) Pushing the offensive. There really are a lot of orcs on the other side of the river, even more than are usually trashing my base. There's a wide variety of types as well. They really should put out a guide, "Balin's Spotting guide to the common orc"
9) Now that I have mithril armor and forged blades, sometimes the orcs actually manage to inflict a loss or two on my upgraded level five squads of short hairy...not thinking about it.
10) Ah, the gorgeous sight of my catapult flinging twin blobs of burning pitch into the enemy base.
11) Me and the assorted elves/men have finished looting one of the two enemy bases, and are now moving on the last surviving group of orcs, across the map. Naturally this means that the dwarves are eating everyone else's dust, except for their catapult, which is actually keeping pace.
12) The last enemy thoughtfully built walls, which allows me to blast holes in them with my catapult until my army bothers to show up. After that their base stops existing with remarkable speed.

Anyway, anybody else have any fond memories of the BFME games, whether original, sequal or expansion?

[MeklorIlavator]

The Original Game Campaign mode has some very...interesting battles. The two I really remember is the Good Campaign's Helm Deep. For some reason, I've never been able to hold the walls for any length, but the first time I did it I thought I could. Plus, I spent money on Peasants, which is just a huge waste. The result was my heroes and about 2 battalions of Elvish Archers held off the combined forces of Isengard until Eomer showed up. In fact, this happens about every time, with the sole exception being that I plan on it so I end up with heroes and fully upgraded elvish archers.

The other story I remember is the last Evil mission, where you attack Minas Tirith. I built several balanced armies to assault the city, but they never really amounted to anything. So, eventually Aragon and the Army of the dead show up, but due to their timer they never actually get to any of my main bases, and I simply swarm them. the greater (initial) threat was the arrival of the riders of Rohan, but I had the Witch King, so their army died quickly (the few archer riders were the first to die). After this I only sent in one more wave of a mixed army before I decided to change my strategy, and in doing so find a winning strategy with Mordor. Trolls. I filled all 300 points of my army with trolls, and for the first time I was actually able to make headway.

[warty goblin]

Trolls are good, particularly against the AI, which knows not the worth of upgraded archers protected by pikemen. The game I was playing last night, it'd be lucky if a troll managed one kill of my spearment before going down.

Also, ever seen what happens if you leave a couple of trolls standing around next to each other? Totally awesome.

[MeklorIlavator]

Trolls are good, particularly against the AI, which knows not the worth of upgraded archers protected by pikemen. The game I was playing last night, it'd be lucky if a troll managed one kill of my spearment before going down.

Also, ever seen what happens if you leave a couple of trolls standing around next to each other? Totally awesome.

Yeah, it is. Of course, the original game lacks pikeman for the good faction. Plus, are pikeman even good against that sort of thing? I still remember the first time I sent an ent against some mixed infantry. it was quite a shock at the time.

[warty goblin]

Yeah, it is. Of course, the original game lacks pikeman for the good faction. Plus, are pikeman even good against that sort of thing? I still remember the first time I sent an ent against some mixed infantry. it was quite a shock at the time.

Rohan lacks pikeman in the original, but Gondor has Tower Guard, which do just fine. And yes, drop forged blades on them, merge their formation with one of archers, and they can basically kill anything. Trolls are basically evil cavalry that is better against swordsmen and enemy cavalry, but has problems with pikes and archers, particularly of the upgraded variety. I might be getting some of this mixed up since it has been a while since I played the original, but I distinctly remember that one of my prefered tactics was to park a bunch of Tower Guard in the gates to one of my walled bases, since it took an obscene amount of enemy troops to dislodge them.

[MeklorIlavator]

hmm...I could have sworn that they weren't, but I do remember how hard they were to kill. Fun times with Tower Gaurd backed by rangers. Or Tower Gaurd acting as the anvil and Knights of Gondor as the hammer.

Oh, and is it just me or does Mordor kinda suck in both games? In the original its due to the way fire arrows worked and their generally lackluster infantry, but even in BfME2 they seem to get the raw end of the deal.

[doliest]

Does anyone remeber the good mission where you're trying to hold off the enemy's from trying to get the dwarven throne? I loved that one to death:smallbiggrin:.

[MeklorIlavator]

Does anyone remeber the good mission where you're trying to hold off the enemy's from trying to get the dwarven throne? I loved that one to death:smallbiggrin:.

That was a fun one. My tactic was to build a giant wall to cut off most of the army and then use strike forces to intercept anyone who cam near me. Worked pretty well, too.

Of course, the evil version of this mission made me just put down the game and leave the mission.

[warty goblin]

hmm...I could have sworn that they weren't, but I do remember how hard they were to kill. Fun times with Tower Gaurd backed by rangers. Or Tower Gaurd acting as the anvil and Knights of Gondor as the hammer.

Oh, and is it just me or does Mordor kinda suck in both games? In the original its due to the way fire arrows worked and their generally lackluster infantry, but even in BfME2 they seem to get the raw end of the deal.

Yeah, Mordor is a hard one, mostly because they lack the upgrade veristility and power of the other factions, and by late in a match, an upgraded squad is going to just reap through an unupgraded one without difficulty.

In the Rise of the Witch-King expansion they really are a lot better though. They get Black Orcs, who are decent, if not spectacular heavy infantry, and actual cavalry besides trolls, which can be a life saver. Not very good cavalry, but still enough to put the hurt on some enemy archers. Plus their economy is now simplified enough to be usable, as opposed to requiring sixteen billion different buildings. Also, their fortresses are pretty pimp fully upgraded. Really evil looking.

[Crispy Dave]

Plus Mordor has that evil ball of death power from their fortress in 2. In 1 I have to say that Mordor does indeed suck mostly because of lack of walls, Heroes, Good Infantry. Ya they really suck.

[warty goblin]

Plus Mordor has that evil ball of death power from their fortress in 2. In 1 I have to say that Mordor does indeed suck mostly because of lack of walls, Heroes, Good Infantry. Ya they really suck.

So I tried a Mordor game the other night against a Hard Men of the West AI, and got slaughtered. The problem was that my orcs kept getting mulched by archers, and pikemen (even the cheap Rohirrim ones that MoTW get at T1 in Rise of the Witch-King) simply own trolls so hard it's not even funny. It's like they walk next to the spearmen and they just keel over and die. I probably should have used a cheap Create-A-Hero to run interference early game until I could get my economy pumping out useful soldiers, but unfortunately I went with my usual three grand troll. Ah well.

[Crispy Dave]

Awww create-a-heroes the fun the fun. whenever I would join a game and they had the starting money at 4000 I would play dwarves and rush them to death with my uber dwarf hero. At least untill they nerfed everything in the exspantion.

[Tom_Violence]

So I tried a Mordor game the other night against a Hard Men of the West AI, and got slaughtered. The problem was that my orcs kept getting mulched by archers, and pikemen (even the cheap Rohirrim ones that MoTW get at T1 in Rise of the Witch-King) simply own trolls so hard it's not even funny. It's like they walk next to the spearmen and they just keel over and die. I probably should have used a cheap Create-A-Hero to run interference early game until I could get my economy pumping out useful soldiers, but unfortunately I went with my usual three grand troll. Ah well.

Yeah, I remember Mordor being pretty crappy too. Isengard were always my favourite, followed by the Goblins because that dragon is just too much fun. If I remember correctly, Mordor's general suckiness could be made up for slightly by the amount of heroes they can get for quite cheap. The fellbeasts can really do some good damage if used in the right places.

Two other things I will say about the game - the War Of The Ring mode is really the only way I play it. I love it, and its one of the most fun multiplayer experiences I've found in a long while. If anyone knows of any more games similar to that, do let me know!

The other thing to point out is that I found that the game became much more enjoyable after I discovered a mod that made buildings about a bajillion times stronger, and allowed for really interesting siege scenarios. Can't remember what it was called, but I really hated the way that in the vanilla game my defences would crumble as soon as two rocks hit them, and every single anti-building unit had a range far longer than any defence.

[warty goblin]

Yeah, at least in vanilla BFME2, the defenses are pretty pathetic. They really get buffed significantly in the expansion, along with buildings in general, to the point where having an enemy squad reach your resource buildings doesn't t automatically spell it's destruction if you have a backup squad handy.

That said, if you are an evil person like I am, you could still have some major fun with them, particularly as the dwarves. I built a fortification of Argonath that literally covered half the map, used three seperate and fully upgraded fortresses, main walls outfitted with axe towers and the occasional catapult, with stub walls built backwards armed with catapults, so that their minimum range just happened to be right outside the walls, chord walls segmenting my territory to contain any possible breakthrough, and the occasional free-standing tower as well. By the time I was done, I probably could have actually walked away from the computer for an hour or so and not had it take any significant damage.

[warty goblin]

Well I gave the Mordor vs Hard Men another try last night, with somewhat more success. I purpose built a cheap Haradrim hero with Toggle Weapon, Stealth and Leadership for almost exactly 1k in resources, so I managed to get him on the map early, which was a great help. Again I initially got seriously wasted in the field, Mordor has the troop diversity, but not the troop quality for the most part. It seems very dependant on managing a delicate balance between cannon fodder (orcs), and very small groups of expensive infantry (Easterlings, Haradrim), something at which I am not particularly adept.

I had however forgotten just how brutal an upgraded Mordor fortress can be. After my initial failures, I threw up a couple of Arrow Bastions, one of those Watchers, and a couple of catapults. Those catapults are just plain murder since they start off with flaming ammunition, particularly when combined with the Watchers, who force the enemy to run away, keeping them at artillery distances for long periods of time. There were points where I basically didn't have an army, but the fortress was able to kill anything nearby. I lost a lot of economy, but thanks to that Mordor power that raises a building's output by 300%, I never ran particularly short of resources, and thanks to the short lifespan of orcs, not too many pop cap problems either. In fact I was actually making progress and rebuilding for a while, until the Army of the Dead showed up in my base, at which point I called it quits, since it would have totalled my upgrades and my army would have been outnumbered and outproduced too massively without them to do much good. All in all though, it was a good game, and I am getting a better feel for Mordor's line up.

[Tom_Violence]

Its nice to know that the phrase 'Hard Men' still inspires a childish snigger from me.

Another great thing that I remember about the evil heroes is the assassination skill, which after a few levels basically just takes any enemy hero out of the game in one hit. But yeah, if you have any more luck fielding a decent Mordor army, do let me know. I've always been curious as to how those bastards are really meant to be played.

As for the dwarves, god damn do I ever hate them. Mainly because every time I see them in the game they absolutely flatten me. Once upgraded their axethrowers just mince anybody else in seconds. Little ****ers.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Mordor style of play : Spam! Spam the frickin orcs!:smalltongue:
Dwarf style of play : UPGRADE, build walls, then pump them full with catapults(enough so they can cover eachother) and upgrade your fortress! And then you have time to slowly expand:smallamused:
Human style : Upgrade everything! Build walls as well!
Elf style : Just buy the upgrades, then spam upgraded elven archers of lorien. Works every time against evertyhing. I even killed sauron with them once....
Isengard style : Upgrade those orcs, then spam them. The orcs die quite easily, but they´re quite strong and upgrading them makes them last long enough for them to deal enough damage because of upgrades.

This is BFME II RotWK.

I´ve had fond memory of BFME, BFME II, and BMFE II RotWK.

And I can always, no matter what race, hold Helmsdeep, I once went to the bathroom, alt-tabbed, spend an hour orso on the forum and came back. Then I wondered, Hmmm, not even a single loss, and the trick against artillery is putting your own on the walls. Next to your archers.

[warty goblin]

Mordor style of play : Spam! Spam the frickin orcs!:smalltongue:
Dwarf style of play : UPGRADE, build walls, then pump them full with catapults(enough so they can cover eachother) and upgrade your fortress! And then you have time to slowly expand:smallamused:
Human style : Upgrade everything! Build walls as well!
Elf style : Just buy the upgrades, then spam upgraded elven archers of lorien. Works every time against evertyhing. I even killed sauron with them once....
Isengard style : Upgrade those orcs, then spam them. The orcs die quite easily, but they´re quite strong and upgrading them makes them last long enough for them to deal enough damage because of upgrades.

This is BFME II RotWK.

I´ve had fond memory of BFME, BFME II, and BMFE II RotWK.

And I can always, no matter what race, hold Helmsdeep, I once went to the bathroom, alt-tabbed, spend an hour orso on the forum and came back. Then I wondered, Hmmm, not even a single loss, and the trick against artillery is putting your own on the walls. Next to your archers.

Also, cavalry on the walls specifically the Deeping Wall. One company at either end usually does it. Assuming that somehow or another the enemy actually manages to get to the walls, just charge down on 'em. Even if they are pikemen, you are very likely to get a flank. Rohirrim work best for this since you can also toggle 'em to ranged and kill the enemy even deader before they reach the walls.

Also, I am now announcing the commencement of Operation Iron Orc. The goal of Iron Orc is to win a Hard War of the Ring as Mordor in BFMEII: Rise of the Witch King. To this end, I am now taking custom hero power and game mode suggestions.

Iron Orc will commence tonight or tomorrow night and progress will be regularly updated, with luck concluding Thursday night.

[Tola]

On the other hand he apparently does not actually take damage. I basically walked him into the enemy's base, which he proceeded to level, with the assitance of the Balrog, who I had gotten through Mordor's Lend-Lease program, and his health bar basically never dropped.


Not true.

He just has obscene armour and health.

He CAN be dropped, and more easily than Galadriel(Good's Ring Hero), because he's a HUGE target.

[WitchSlayer]

Tom, about the assassination skill, you are right. When it is maxed out, it can take out ANY hero in the game. My friend got the ring once and sent Sauron at me, and I assassinated him. One hit KO. We lol'd so hard that we got the ring and did it again with Galadriel, same result. It's hilariously overpowered.