Combat Pragmatist (3.5 Prc)

[BRC]

“Everybody says that anything goes when your life is on the line. I’m just one of the few people who realize it.”
-Gussie “Two Grins”, Combat Pragmatist.

Being a combat pragmatist is one part attitude, one part instinct, and one part experience. Simply put, a combat pragmatist is a low down dirty fighter who has honed themselves to take advantage of every opportunity. Combat Pragmatists fight mainly by instinct, allowing them to run circles around (And cut circles in) slower-acting opponents. Combat Pragmatists tend to come from poorer, urban backrounds, their skills honed by alleyway knifefights and street brawls, but can arise from anywhere people are desperate enough to hit below the belt.
Combat Pragmatist
Hit Die
D8
Requirements
Feats
(Any of the following) Improved Grapple, Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Improved Feint.
Base Attack Bonus
+3
Base Reflex Save
+4,
Skills
Tumble +8

Combat Pragmatist
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+0|
+2|
+0| Cheap Shot, Sneak Attack +1d6

2nd|
+2|
+0|
+3|
+0|Brutal Grappler, Improved Initiative.

3rd|
+3|
+1|
+3|
+1|Uncanny Dodge, Go For The Throat, Sneak Attack +2d6

4th|
+4|
+1|
+4|
+1| Skilled Brawler
5th|
+5|
+1|
+4|
+1|Insult to Injury, Sneak Attack +3d6[/table]
Class Skills
The Combat Pragmatist’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) Are Bluff (Cha), Tumble (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), and Sense Motive (Wis)
Skill points at each level
3+Int Modifier
Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Combat Pragmatist gains no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Sneak Attack: This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. The extra damage dealt increases by +1d6 every other level (1st, 3rd, and 5th). If a combat pragmatist gets a sneak attack bonus from another source the bonuses on damage stack.
Cheap Shot: Once per day per Combat Pragmatist level, a Combat Pragmatist may make a bluff check as a swift action.
Brutal Grappler: Combat Pragmatists often fight up-close and dirty. At second level a Combat Pragmatist takes no penalty when attacking an opponent they are grappling.
Improved Initiative: Combat Pragmatists gain Improved Initiative as a bonus feat at 2nd level.
Go For The Throat: Combat Pragmatists soon learn that one hit where it counts is better than ten hits where it doesn’t. By directing their attacks towards an opponents vital organs, a combat pragmatist may take a -2 penalty on her attack roll in order to treat an opponent as flat-footed for the purpose of special attacks and abilities (Like Sneak Attack). The target does not actually become flat footed, and retains all dodge and dexterity bonuses to AC.
Uncanny Dodge: Starting at 3rd level, a combat pragmatist retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) regardless of being caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. (He still loses any Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.)
If a character gains uncanny dodge from a second class the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge.
Skilled Brawler: At Fourth Level a Combat Pragmatist becomes an expert at limiting or taking down opponents (Besides the obvious method ) and gains a +2 bonus on all Grapple, Trip, and Disarm checks.
Insult to Injury: At 5th level a combat pragmatist learns to take full advantage of every strike. If they hit a flat-footed opponent, the Combat Pragmatist may make a Grapple, Disarm, or Trip check as a swift action.


Comments? Suggestions? Hate Mail?

[AstralFire]

I would restate 'go for the throat' as allowing abilities that work on flat-footed targets to function in return for not actually denying the opponent their Dex and Dodge, along with a generic -2 penalty to attack.

[BRC]

I would restate 'go for the throat' as allowing abilities that work on flat-footed targets to function in return for not actually denying the opponent their Dex and Dodge, along with a generic -2 penalty to attack.
Hmm, I suppose that would work better. Thanks.

[AstralFire]

NP. Also, take out that <BR> tag, it's an artifact of Fax's post for some reason.

[Spiryt]

Well...

I support idea of any "down to earth" PrCs, there are not enough of them, and they're fun.

However:

It looks good from Monk... Except that Monk can't take it. Unarmoured strike is simply waste in most causes, and also doesn't really fit the fluff, aside from the fact that it's required for Imp. Grapple.

I think that Combat Expertise would do better as a prerequisite, with one of it's " spawn feats" (Imp. Disarm, Feint) too. Or you can propose Imp.Grapple as a Combat Expertise requiring feat too (if hombrew, let's homebrew:smallwink:).

Generally, I would suggest something more universal than Grapple for "dirty fighting" guy. Not to abadon grapple, but give something (maybe other damage bonuses? As far as I know, Sneak Att, doesn't work too well with grapple) that helps grapple as well as normal attacks.

That's it, hope it helps.

[BRC]

Well...

I support idea of any "down to earth" PrCs, there are not enough of them, and they're fun.

However:

It looks good from Monk... Except that Monk can't take it. Unarmoured strike is simply waste in most causes, and also doesn't really fit the fluff, aside from the fact that it's required for Imp. Grapple.

I think that Combat Expertise would do better as a prerequisite, with one of it's " spawn feats" (Imp. Disarm, Feint) too. Or you can propose Imp.Grapple as a Combat Expertise requiring feat too (if hombrew, let's homebrew:smallwink:).

Generally, I would suggest something more universal than Grapple for "dirty fighting" guy. Not to abadon grapple, but give something (maybe damage bonuses?) that helps grapple as well as normal attacks.

That's it, hope it helps.
Well, the Nonlawful is kind of an artifact from when I was toying around with some unarmed strike stuff, I was worried it would be too good for monks, so I guess I can drop that easily enough.
Imp unarmed strike and Imp grapple can be dropped as well, maybe I'll replace one of them with Combat Reflexes.


Hmm, How about changing the capstone to, any time they hit with a melee attack they can then make a grapple, trip, or disarm check as a free (or swift) action. Like this


Insult to Injury: At 5th level a combat pragmatist learns to take full advantage of every strike. If they hit a flat-footed opponent, the Combat Pragmatist may make a Grapple, Disarm, or Trip check as a swift action.

[Spiryt]

Insult to Injury: At 5th level a combat pragmatist learns to take full advantage of every strike. If they hit a flat-footed opponent, the Combat Pragmatist may make a Grapple, Disarm, or Trip check as a swift action.

Now that's nice, not too powerful, definetly, just nice, and the first one was... unimpressing and confusing indeed.

About requirments/feats - what about some choice? (Ranger combat style like)

It's always nice too have choice instead of "take another level in this or this", and those could be different benefits from the class, depending what you want.

[BRC]

Now that's nice, not too powerful, definetly, just nice, and the first one was... unimpressing and confusing indeed.

About requirments/feats - what about some choice? (Ranger combat style like)

It's always nice too have choice instead of "take another level in this or this", and those could be different benefits from the class, depending what you want.
Changed the Prereqs. Technically the prereq is only one feat, but all of them require at least one other feat, so it works out in the end.

[Spiryt]

Ah, I reread Go For The Throat, and I find it way too strong.

Somebody takes : 7Rogue/3CombatPragmatist for example - not only he speed's up his Sneak Attack, but for a small - 2 to attack he can make it all time?

Horrible amount of damage for 10th level, I think.

It also makes Cheap Shot, and other ways to gain Sneak Attack, like Improved Initiative even, pointless.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it looks too easy for me. With TWF and solid to hit investment (items, high Dex) it's too easy to deal big damage.

[BRC]

Ah, I reread Go For The Throat, and I find it way too strong.

Somebody takes : 7Rogue/3CombatPragmatist for example - not only he speed's up his Sneak Attack, but for a small - 2 to attack he can make it all time?

Horrible amount of damage for 10th level, I think.

It also makes Cheap Shot, and other ways to gain Sneak Attack, like Improved Initiative even, pointless.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it looks too easy for me. With TWF and solid to hit investment (items, high Dex) it's too easy to deal big damage.
Originally, the penalty was equal to twice the opponents dex bonus. For example, if they had a dex bonus of +2, the Combat pragmatist would take a -4 penalty on the attack. Astral suggested just making it a flat -2 penalty. I think I'll up the penalty abit, maybe make it a full-round action, or have it trigger an AoO

[Spiryt]

Originally, the penalty was equal to twice the opponents dex bonus. For example, if they had a dex bonus of +2, the Combat pragmatist would take a -4 penalty on the attack. Astral suggested just making it a flat -2 penalty. I think I'll up the penalty abit, maybe make it a full-round action.

Making it some amount of uses per day, or something would be also nice.

Although I'm not really sure, someone better at this is needed. While I think that it's too strong, - 2 can be surprisingly high penatly for 3/4 BaB guy. But again, PrC itself gives those precious to hit points.

And Sneak Attack isn't only thing that can contribute from flat footed status. (Still Rogues would be main winners with it, probably)

[AstralFire]

Horrible amount of damage for 10th level, I think.

12d6 or 18d6 (if TWFing) damage + 2-3xweapon? Not really, and it's no better than they could get if they carried another meleer around with them.

[Spiryt]

12d6 or 18d6 (if TWFing) damage + 2-3xweapon? Not really, and it's no better than they could get if they carried another meleer around with them.

Well, considering only first attack, and equal final to hit (I considered that barb would have 8 points above the rogue/CP), raging leap attacking barbarian can get 32 damage from Power Attack (considering errated Leap Attack, without it's less)

Two attacks from it gives average damage of 42 (, and can be do every round without leaping and raging). Both methods can be further improved, of course, but it seems to me that damage is indeed high, and more attacks mean more advanteages with it.

[AstralFire]

Well, considering only highest attack bonus, and equal final to hit (I considered that barb would have 8 points above the rogue/CP), raging leap attacking barbarian can get 32 damage from Power Attack.

And weapon damage. And 1.5 Strength Mod to damage. And the Barb can probably get higher without much work.


Two attacks from it gives average damage of 42 (, and can be do every round without leaping and raging). Both methods can be further improved, of course, but it seems to me that damage is indeed high.

All this does is make being the center of melee damage as the rogue without the aid of a meat shield feasible. The rogue will not be doing more damage than they'd already be capable of in that situation.

[Spiryt]

And weapon damage. And 1.5 Strength Mod to damage. And the Barb can probably get higher without much work.

Even with two shortswords, damage from weapon is exaclty equal with for example greatsword. (2k6 vs 2k6). TWF gets 1,5 Str as well. Of course, this type would possibly have lower strenght, but if made more fighterish (only 5Rog and 5 CP considering 10th level) way, it doesn't have to be much lower (if he isn't going Finesse Weapon, but if he screws skills and goes for damage high Dexterity isn't so necessary).

And he can get better too. Those were examples.

And anyway, making all other ways of getting Sneak Attack pointless is pretty game spoiling.

[AstralFire]

Even with two shortswords, damage from weapon is exaclty equal with for example greatsword. (2k6 vs 2k6). TWF gets 1,5 Str as well. Of course, this type would possibly have lower strenght, but if made more fighterish (only 5Rog and 5 CP considering 10th level) way, it doesn't have to be much lower (if he isn't going Finesse Weapon, but if he screws skills and goes for damage high Dexterity isn't so necessary).

A Rogue will never have nearly as much strength as an optimized Barb due to Rage. And then add in the simple fact that a Barb requires one stat: Strength, some Con doesn't hurt. A TWF Rogue requires good Str, good Dex, good Con to make up for their lack of ability to take a hit/no Fort, and often will want to pick up Cha and Int for their skills.

Trust me; the Barb will do better, especially when it has a higher BAB. Not to mention the Barb doesn't have to worry about Crit immunity ruining his day, and if they are crit-vulnerable, gets to double his damage.


And anyway, making all other ways of getting Sneak Attack pointless is pretty game spoiling.

You mean like Flanking already does, as Flanking gives you a +2 bonus to attack and someone to stand there and be a target with you, while going by yourself currently imposes a -2 penalty?

[BRC]

How about this rework (okay, it's more of a total redo, but whatever)
Go for the Throat: a Combat Pragmatist learns to make the most of openings when they appear. Once per day per Combat Pragmatist level, a Combat Pragmatist may add +2 to their critical threat range against a flat footed opponent. This is added After any other effects that increase critical threat range (For example, using this ability with a keen short sword would give a threat range of 16 (20-18+ 16) not 14). If this attack does not threaten a critical, it automatically misses.

[AstralFire]

Just make it keen but stacking or everyone'll be grabbing a Scythe/Dire Pick. But it's not nearly as good and isn't really attractive.