Xykon's (Lirian's and Dorukan's) Soulstone in-comic

[Euron]

so, I just did another read through of the series, and noticed something (again) I didn't see before, with no mentions on this board, apparently.

I thought for a long time that Xykon's soulstone (SOD) never appeared in comic, but it does, here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html) (panel seven).

Anyway, just pointing that out if no one else noticed that, nice sort of retcon we have here :P.

Cheers.

[AstralFire]

Soulstone?

[Mauve Shirt]

Put "SoD spoilers" in the thread title.
I actually did notice the soulstone when that comic came up. :smallbiggrin: It made me happy.

[Euron]

In SOD,

Xykon binds Lirian's and Dorukan's souls into a (I don't know the technical DnD term) a soulstone, at their respective gates. He is still in possession of it when he enters Dorukan's dungeon.

I don't know if SOD material is still spoiler worthy, but meh.

[AstralFire]

Ah. I figured this had nothing to do with Lirian and Dorukan suddenly clicking Use Soulstone and popping up fresh as daisies. Thank you.

[RMS Oceanic]

In SOD,

Xykon binds Lirian's and Dorukan's souls into a (I don't know the technical DnD term) a soulstone, at their respective gates. He is still in possession of it when he enters Dorukan's dungeon.

I don't know if SOD material is still spoiler worthy, but meh.

The technical term is the spell Soul Bind.

[Deepkicker]

Ah! Never spotted it there. Nice find! It'd be cool if the stone was actually directly referred to in the online strips some time.

[Theodoriph]

retcon
/ret'kon/ retroactive continuity.
The common situation in fiction where a new story "reveals" things about events in previous stories, usually leaving the "facts" the same (thus preserving continuity) while completely changing their interpretation. For example, revealing that a whole season of "Dallas" was a dream was a retcon.




It doesn't really seem like a retcon. I'm not sure if that's the right word you were searching for.

[TheNovak]

I'd bet a decent amount of money that the soul stone comes into play again at some point. My little prediction is that it will be used to absorb the soul of Girard. Or Serini, if she's still around.

I'd bet against it being shattered as a way to draw on spectral reinforcements during the Final Battle, though. Seems too predictable for Rich.

[The Wanderer]

I'd bet a decent amount of money that the soul stone comes into play again at some point. My little prediction is that it will be used to absorb the soul of Girard. Or Serini, if she's still around.

I'd bet against it being shattered as a way to draw on spectral reinforcements during the Final Battle, though. Seems too predictable for Rich.

Well, Xykon found the locations of the other gates through Serini's diary, so I doubt she's still around. Either Xykon tracked her down and found that she had already died and took the journal, or killed her and then took it. That seems most likely to me, anyway.

About Lirian and Dorukan: something struck me while reading this thread. It seems rather convenient, (not so much for Xykon's purposes but for story purposes) that the first two gates Xykon went to, and the two defenders he used the Soul Bind on are the two who came up with the Gates and created them. In other words, the only two people in the world who know how to construct them without, as Redcloak says in SOD, first becoming epic level, then doing at least months worth of research on how to make the Gates.

Storywise this means a couple of things. 1) It removed the possibility of either of the two recruiting someone to go around to the reopened rifts with them and just seal them back up. In turn, that means that even if.when Team Evil is defeated, the rifts are still going to be an issue. 2) I also don't think Dorukan and Lirian will be spectral reinforcements, partially because that's already been done, however, it's very possible that if the gem did survive Dorukan's fortress, that they may wind up acting to do something about the rifts, either by teaching someone how to recreate the Gates (V and Durkan?) or by doing it themselves before their spirits depart.

[Liwen]

We are of course assuming that the gem survived the destruction of Xykon's body. Durokan's headband survived it, but I'd like to know how. Redcloak didn't exactly had to the time to collect all their magic items of their way out.

[TheNovak]

Well, the OotS universe operates enough on the rules of drama that there's no way such a potentially important item could be destroyed without something cool happening. Or something pointedly anticlimactic. Either way, there'd be some definite focus on it.

[factotum]

We are of course assuming that the gem survived the destruction of Xykon's body. Durokan's headband survived it, but I'd like to know how. Redcloak didn't exactly had to the time to collect all their magic items of their way out.

Xykon might have stored those items in the escape tunnel just in case he ever had to get out in a hurry.

[AKA_Bait]

Xykon might have stored those items in the escape tunnel just in case he ever had to get out in a hurry.

Or unless they plan to be used in the near future Redcloak is the one who keeps track of them. Xykon can't even keep tabs on his keys after all. I'd suspect that epic magical items and stones containing the trapped souls of epic casters would be kept safley in Redcloaks posession and added to the inventory list in pen.

[Finwe]

Or unless they plan to be used in the near future Redcloak is the one who keeps track of them. Xykon can't even keep tabs on his keys after all. I'd suspect that epic magical items and stones containing the trapped souls of epic casters would be kept safley in Redcloaks posession and added to the inventory list in pen.

Oh man, I bet he'd even break out the sharpies for that!

[Lamech]

Well, Xykon found the locations of the other gates through Serini's diary, so I doubt she's still around. Either Xykon tracked her down and found that she had already died and took the journal, or killed her and then took it. That seems most likely to me, anyway.

About Lirian and Dorukan: something struck me while reading this thread. It seems rather convenient, (not so much for Xykon's purposes but for story purposes) that the first two gates Xykon went to, and the two defenders he used the Soul Bind on are the two who came up with the Gates and created them. In other words, the only two people in the world who know how to construct them without, as Redcloak says in SOD, first becoming epic level, then doing at least months worth of research on how to make the Gates.

Storywise this means a couple of things. 1) It removed the possibility of either of the two recruiting someone to go around to the reopened rifts with them and just seal them back up. In turn, that means that even if.when Team Evil is defeated, the rifts are still going to be an issue. 2) I also don't think Dorukan and Lirian will be spectral reinforcements, partially because that's already been done, however, it's very possible that if the gem did survive Dorukan's fortress, that they may wind up acting to do something about the rifts, either by teaching someone how to recreate the Gates (V and Durkan?) or by doing it themselves before their spirits depart.

I'm betting on no spectral reinforcments from the gem, people don't just randomly ressurect in OotS. I think the gem was to kill the question "why don't they get a true ressurection for the order of the scribble?" Soon probably died of old age so he can't come back, same for Girrard. Serini may still be around, but she is a rouge right? And it has been what eighty years since the first group started questing? She has -6's to her physical stats, probably wouldn't last long against Xykon. (Not that the OotS would do much better, but whatever.)
Maybe if Redcloak gets to epic level a spell will be devised to intterogate the souls and figure out how team evil can manufacture more gates, but I think the main reason for the gem was to remove the order of the scribble from the field of play.

[Texas Jedi]

I think Xykon used the Soul bind gem just because he is Evil and wanted them to have a fate worse than death.

[Demonseedx]

Actually Soul Bind traps the soul from being resurrected, IIRC. He probably did it as a means to ensure the epic level spell casters didn't have spells that would allow them to show back up and make more trouble.

[Alyais]

That is not his "soul stone" (I'm assuming you mean Phylactery). If you listen to the context of the overhead.

"One [epic spell] was called "Cloister". It basically blocked all divination, communication, and transportation magic from breaching an area up to several miles wide...Right before Xykon moved in the field dissapeared- probably due to Dorukan's death, but I;m not really sure. And then proof! One day, it was back. I guess Xykon found a way to master the spell himself."

Xykon even states; "It's either a lame hippie hairband, or the material focus for the most powerful abjuration ever. Probably both." And you'll also notice the item he's holding was on Dorukan's head in the previous frame.

Now as for the black gem- I would say thats a good argument but he'd have to be the stupidist lich ever to carry it around with him.

[Khosan]

That is not his "soul stone" (I'm assuming you mean Phylactery). If you listen to the context of the overhead.

"One [epic spell] was called "Cloister". It basically blocked all divination, communication, and transportation magic from breaching an area up to several miles wide...Right before Xykon moved in the field dissapeared- probably due to Dorukan's death, but I;m not really sure. And then proof! One day, it was back. I guess Xykon found a way to master the spell himself."

Xykon even states; "It's either a lame hippie hairband, or the material focus for the most powerful abjuration ever. Probably both." And you'll also notice the item he's holding was on Dorukan's head in the previous frame.

Now as for the black gem- I would say thats a good argument but he'd have to be the stupidist lich ever to carry it around with him.

His phylactery is Redcloak's holy symbol anyway. The black gem is, specifically, a black sapphire worth at least 40,000 GP. Reasons for that are outlined in spoilers above.

[Bavarian itP]

I'm assuming you mean Phylactery

You assumed wrong, and you missed the point of this thread in every imaginable way ...

[Nerd-o-rama]

Hey there, spoilers in the title.

[Red XIV]

Now as for the black gem- I would say thats a good argument but he'd have to be the stupidist lich ever to carry it around with him.
Who says he isn't the stupidest lich ever? :smallbiggrin:

[mlsq42]

Well considering that he probably picked up the band just after he dealt with Dorukan's Soul, of course he'd have the stone in his hand. It just took him a while to work out how to use it properly.

[Forealms]

I don't know if SOD material is still spoiler worthy, but meh.

Many people have not read SoD (me, for example), and even stuff from OtOoPCs must be spoilered, and that doesn't give away any critical plot developments.

[GSFB]

I'm taking no chances and just spoilering everything at this point.


The headband is a major artifact. It would survive virtually anything. The soulstone is just a gem - but sapphires are pretty solid, almost like diamonds. It could go through a lot and still remain intact.

D&D characters - especially higher level ones - almost always have things like bags of holding, portable holes, etc., for keeping lots of treasure in a small and convenient container for easy travelling. No doubt, after Xykon settled in to the dungeon, the gem went into such a container, along with the headband. It would have been easy for Redcloak to snatch it up on the way out. Heck, Redcloak probably had it with him already, for reasons stated above.

What is particularly important is that Lirian and Dorukon not only teamed up to make the gates, but were also partners once upon a time before the Order of the Scribble split apart. Now they are together - at least in spirit.

[AceOfFools]

I'm taking no chances and just spoilering everything at this point.


The headband is a major artifact. It would survive virtually anything. The soulstone is just a gem - but sapphires are pretty solid, almost like diamonds. It could go through a lot and still remain intact.

D&D characters - especially higher level ones - almost always have things like bags of holding, portable holes, etc., for keeping lots of treasure in a small and convenient container for easy travelling. No doubt, after Xykon settled in to the dungeon, the gem went into such a container, along with the headband. It would have been easy for Redcloak to snatch it up on the way out. Heck, Redcloak probably had it with him already, for reasons stated above.

What is particularly important is that Lirian and Dorukon not only teamed up to make the gates, but were also partners once upon a time before the Order of the Scribble split apart. Now they are together - at least in spirit.


The headband is explicitly a focus, which is very, very different from a major artifact. Foci are basically material components (like the diamonds for resurrection) that are not consumed when the spell is cast. I think the black gem is one too while we're at it.

So basically, the difference between a focus and a major artifact is the difference between a Harry Potter wand (which are broken in cannon) and the One Ring.

Foci are also interchangeable. Any headband made of the materials the hippies was made of would work, even if it was destroyed.
[/rules rant]

You don't think that the black gemstone ended up in the pile of 11,430 gp (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0129.html) worth of gems and gold, do you?

Also, thanks Euron, hadn't noticed that.