Why go back to the ship?

[Gamerlord]

Qarr seems to want to go back to the ship in the recent comic, BUT WHY ON EARTH WOULD A IMP WANT TO GO BACK ON BOARD A SHIP INFESTED WITH GOOD GUYS?! HE IS A IMP! THEY HAVE LESS THEN 2 DOZEN HP! What whould his masters SO badly want on a ship where they just lost a important Ally (who might have been a crictal ally).

[Vizen]

Hmm...Well, I reckon its not that they WANT something, its they want to GET RID OF something, I.E. the paladins....The good guys do make plenty of enemies with evil guys after all.

Though perhaps in all the confusion of the demon-summoning and what not, Qarr just simply doesn't know that Kubota is dead. They seem to have lost contact after all as shown here in the first panel. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0594.html)

[Linkavitch]

Obviously, the forces of Evil want Hinjo/Elan/Durkon dead, as it will further the course of evil that much more. And the Imp will say he will help V find Haley if he will kill all the people on the boats. Hopefully, V will slaughter a bunch of NPC's, and then, when he's about to kill those mentioned above, Elan will convince him of his evil. At which point, he will get some trance in, before setting out with Elan/Durkon ya know what I just realized? Dorukon's name is only one letter away from Durkon's. . . maybe dorukon was raised by Dwarves, and thus the long beard?

[TheElfLord]

Though perhaps in all the confusion of the demon-summoning and what not, Qarr just simply doesn't know that Kubota is dead. They seem to have lost contact after all as shown here in the first panel. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0594.html)

This. Quarr has presumably been on the island all night and has no idea what happened back at the fleet. For all he knows the plot worked. Hinjo himself just found out the K-man died. Quarr would know Therkla perished, but not how the rest turned out.

[AyuVince]

ya know what I just realized? Dorukon's name is only one letter away from Durkon's. . . maybe dorukon was raised by Dwarves, and thus the long beard?

Do-ru-kan. Not Dorukon. And no, similarities in generic fantasy names do not mean that people are related.

I reckon the imp wants to rejoin Kubota. After all, it's his mission in the mortal world to aid the evil lord. He doesn't realize that the elven mage zooming overhead completely foiled Kubota's carefully laid plans.

[David Argall]

This. Quarr has presumably been on the island all night and has no idea what happened back at the fleet. For all he knows the plot worked. Hinjo himself just found out the K-man died. Quarr would know Therkla perished, but not how the rest turned out.

Qarr fled the island to set Kubota off. Thereafter, he was supposed to be backup for Kubota, a job he didn't do. It seems unlikely he just wandered back to the island.

A more likely scenario: Devils are known for providing great support, until a certain point arrives and you really need their help, at which point... See Macbeth and the witches. So Qarr sees Kubota is in bad trouble, and just watches him fall. Seeing V kill him, Qarr decides the elf is his next target, but the arrival of the paladins keeps him from trying anything right away, and he flees to the island to make some plans on how to be on the ship long enough to make a deal, but the fly-by of V makes these unneeded.

[Ron Miel]

I think that what the imp wanted on the ship was in fact Varsuuvius. Seeing V fly by means he no longer needs to go on the ship.

In fact, I bet that he has wanted V all along, and was manipulating Kubota to remove the paladins in order to achieve that end.

[Red XIV]

I find that unlikely. Qarr was (IMO) probably working with Kubota before V's arrival in Azure City, and we know for a fact that he was doing so before there was any indication of V being a viable candidate for "turning to the dark side".

Most likely, Qarr's original agenda was simply to put an evil nobleman in charge of a city currently run by paladins. For a devil, that's surely a worthy goal in itself. Now, he's either shifting his attention to V out of necessity due to Kubota's death, or he decided to ditch Kubota in favor V due to V's massive superiority in raw power.

[Pronounceable]

or he decided to ditch Kubota in favor V due to V's massive superiority in raw power.

Most likely. What he doesn't know is, V's gonna pwn him back to hell.

[GSFB]

I think that what the imp wanted on the ship was in fact Varsuuvius. Seeing V fly by means he no longer needs to go on the ship.

In fact, I bet that he has wanted V all along, and was manipulating Kubota to remove the paladins in order to achieve that end.

OK, you might be on to something here...

Remember, Sabine learned part of the story of the Snarl and went to the lower planes to report. Shortly after that, we first encountered Qarr. There is a connection. Qarr's ultimate goal is to learn more about the Snarl. Qarr first wanted to get into the inner circle of the Sapphire Guard, as they were (apparently to Qarr) the keepers of the knowledge and the protectors of the remaining Order of the Stick. But if Qarr can get V alone and out of spells...

[Jorgo Mono]

...Qarr's ultimate goal is to learn more about the Snarl. Qarr first wanted to get into the inner circle of the Sapphire Guard, as they were (apparently to Qarr) the keepers of the knowledge and the protectors of the remaining Order of the Stick...

Wait, it is? That's his revealed goal? I may just be having a memory lapse right now, could someone link me to where this motive is revealed?

[GSFB]

It hasn't been revealed. Hence the spoiler tags. But note that the first we heard about Qarr was AFTER Sabine went to the lower planes to report about the Snarl... timing matters!

More:

The reason Qarr was originally sent up from the lower planes was to put a puppet on the throne who could be manipulated by fiends. Kubota was perfect for the task. He is evil enough to freely associate with fiends. He is ambitious enough to want to seize power by any means necessary. And he is arrogant enough to always assume everything that happens is his doing. Perfect victim for manipulation by epic-level fiends. Kubota would then be in a position to discover all the Sapphire Guard's long-held secrets about the Snarl, which he would gladly deliver to his fiend-allies.

Qarr does not know Kubota is dead. Qarr assumes he needs to get back on the boats to continue propping up Kubota. However, Qarr has learned that the Order of the Stick is deeply involved with the Snarl issue and is, in all manner of fact if not in title, really running things at this point. So if Qarr has a chance to nab V, that is practically as good as putting Kubota on the throne, at least as far as the lower planes are concerned.

[Andre Fairchilde]

Does Qarr know Kubota is dead? I didn't have that impression. My impression is that he's going back to impersonate V.

[Liwen]

So now Qarr will attemp and most probably succeed in convincing V that he's her ticket to saving the world :

- He will offer transportation to the lower planes, where superior scrying equipement is available. They will use this mojo to locate Haley, collect her and the rest of the party, return to Elan and Durkon, rez Roy, get the plot moving to the next gate and gain control of the Snarl themselves.

- Only, V is the only one who knows that the OOTS are now secretly working for a group of bad guys. In exchange for the devil's assistance, V must leave control of the Snarl to them, but she makes a deal for considerable arcane power in exchange as well as protection of the elven lands, which is pretty much the only thing she still cares for except power.

[Kranden]

As for Qarr wanting to go back to the ship... well It may not be a good idea for him to return to the lower planes just yet considering he got a very powerful demon turned into stone. Going back empty handed would be a good way to die (or whatever way Demons destroy other demons)

[Callos_DeTerran]

Obviously, the forces of Evil want Hinjo/Elan/Durkon dead, as it will further the course of evil that much more. And the Imp will say he will help V find Haley if he will kill all the people on the boats. Hopefully, V will slaughter a bunch of NPC's, and then, when he's about to kill those mentioned above, Elan will convince him of his evil. At which point, he will get some trance in, before setting out with Elan/Durkon

...Do you honestly believe that Elan and Durkon, both heavily HEAVILY good aligned characters will still travel with V if he does something like that? Especially the lawful Durkon who was willing to watch his party beat down because Thor willed it?

If so then I have a floating house to see you in New Orleans.

[TigerHunter]

Most likely. What he doesn't know is, V's gonna pwn him back to hell.
I fully expect Qarr to get Disintegrated in the second panel of the next comic.

Edit: Woah, I just realized that the next comic is #600.

Now I'm going crazy with anticipation.

[GSFB]

As for Qarr wanting to go back to the ship... well It may not be a good idea for him to return to the lower planes just yet considering he got a very powerful demon turned into stone.

Which of course has us asking again if the fiend is dead or merely turned to stone... If dead, then it is now back in the lower planes reforming... not so big a deal, just an embarrasing incovenience. If trapped in stone... well... could be not so bad or not so good. How hard will it be to break that enchantment? If the fiend is stuck in a statue for a thousand years, that is BAD for Qarr. If the spell can easily be broken, then again it is just an embarrasing inconvenience.

Or, if in this unique setting, there are other things that happen when fiends die... well, we'll just have to wait and see!

[TigerHunter]

Which of course has us asking again if the fiend is dead or merely turned to stone... If dead, then it is now back in the lower planes reforming... not so big a deal, just an embarrasing incovenience. If trapped in stone... well... could be not so bad or not so good. How hard will it be to break that enchantment? If the fiend is stuck in a statue for a thousand years, that is BAD for Qarr. If the spell can easily be broken, then again it is just an embarrasing inconvenience.

Or, if in this unique setting, there are other things that happen when fiends die... well, we'll just have to wait and see!
Flesh to Stone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fleshtoStone.htm)

The creature is not dead,

Prismatic Spray (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prismaticSpray.htm) doesn't specify that the blue ray functions the same as Flesh to Stone, but it's a fair bet.

[David Argall]

Remember, Sabine learned part of the story of the Snarl and went to the lower planes to report. Shortly after that, we first encountered Qarr.
And when we first encounter him, he acts like he has associated with Kubota for a substantial period. That may be less than a year, but surely more than the 3 days Sabine has known of the Snarl and Gate.


Qarr's ultimate goal is to learn more about the Snarl.
Qarr simply doesn't know the Snarl exists. He, and Kubota, act like their goal is to rule the city, not like they suspect the paladins of some deep secret.



But if Qarr can get V alone and out of spells...
He will bow and scrap and try for a job as familiar. Qarr has seen V take out his super macho pal. That means he runs or hides from, or kisses up to V, not look for a weak moment and try to challenge him.


The reason Qarr was originally sent up from the lower planes was to put a puppet on the throne who could be manipulated by fiends. Kubota would then be in a position to discover all the Sapphire Guard's long-held secrets about the Snarl, which he would gladly deliver to his fiend-allies.
But this sort of plot surely started long before the party got to Azure City. There is simply no reason for them to suspect about the Snarl.


Qarr does not know Kubota is dead.
Why would he not? We have Qarr at the battle, and then leaving to report to Kubota, who tells him to play backup as Kubota tries to take out the Katos. His last known location is where he could see Kubota bite it.
He ends up on the island, but we don't know when he goes back there. He has no known reason to go there [see his stone friend? He's a devil for badness' sake.]



Does Qarr know Kubota is dead? I didn't have that impression. My impression is that he's going back to impersonate V.
Until he saw V fly by, Qarr had no idea he would have a chance to impersonate V, and thus was not wanting to go to the ship to do that.

[Grail]

HE IS A IMP! THEY HAVE LESS THEN 2 DOZEN HP!

I would bet a ham sandwich that this Imp has at least a few class levels.

[GSFB]

Qarr may have known Kubota for some time and may have been helping Kubota for some time. But Qarr answers to the lower planes, not to Kubota. Qarr could easily have received new instructions at any point in the story.

Qarr is not just an imp. Qarr has demonstrated powers above and beyond a normal imp. We have no idea how powerful Qarr really is. And, there is more than mere physical/arcane power. Qarr might be a small and weak fiend, but he might have the equivalence of many levels of aristocrat or expert - he could have any variety of skills, talents, and resources not typically associated with power in D&D game mechanics terms, but certainly associated with power in storytelling terms. Qarr might be a real Machiavelli amongst the fiends.

[Andre Fairchilde]

Wow. So, Qarr could conceivably go back to the ship - unknowingly impersonating Kubota's murderer, be scanned by a Detect Evil - found to be evil, and tried and convicted for a murder he didn't commit; and placing V in a double indemnity if V ever comes back? Meaning V may get away with murder because the imp may be implicated?

I can see Elan sweating over testifying in court, being forced to tell the truth, and Qarr being tried and convicted with Elan believing he's V the entire time.

Not that that all will happen :smallbiggrin:

[Grail]

Do you really think that Qarr would remain if this were so? I'd bet a 2nd ham sandwich that he'd be outa there before you could say "pass the mustard".

[Kranden]

Qarr is not just an imp. Qarr has demonstrated powers above and beyond a normal imp. We have no idea how powerful Qarr really is. And, there is more than mere physical/arcane power. Qarr might be a small and weak fiend, but he might have the equivalence of many levels of aristocrat or expert - he could have any variety of skills, talents, and resources not typically associated with power in D&D game mechanics terms, but certainly associated with power in storytelling terms. Qarr might be a real Machiavelli amongst the fiends.


I agree, consider that he tricked a Greater Demon into fighting and Dying(or whatever you wanna call it because were never going to see him again)

If I was a greater Demon I would very doubtfully ever talk or do anything with an Imp. I Most likely I would have stepped on him by accident:smallwink:. So he is important enough especially since he's the only demon around at the moment. I can see Vaarsuvius attacking the demon as he flies away because its in his way and nothing else not even stopping just fly by Disintegration :P But Qaar will say something before V destroys him that will stop V cold in his tracks.

[David Argall]

Qarr may have known Kubota for some time and may have been helping Kubota for some time. But Qarr answers to the lower planes, not to Kubota. Qarr could easily have received new instructions at any point in the story.
Of course he could have, but where is there evidence he did? As of the fall of Azure City, he is behaving as someone with no particular goals beyond rulership of the city and/or corruption of Kubota. We see no signs he knows of the Gate, and we see he and Kubota doing things that are sensible only if he doesn't know.
What we know is that Qarr showed up some time well in the past, maybe a year for our analysis, and made a deal with Kubota, after which was/became? the leading noble in the city, with ambitions to rule the city. Where do we see any sign this program was changed before Kubota's death?


Qarr is not just an imp. Qarr has demonstrated powers above and beyond a normal imp. We have no idea how powerful Qarr really is.
We know him to be distinctly wimpy compared to most of the PCs and major NPCs. His combat abilities would appear to be a joke even compared to the less skilled NPCs. He urges others into combat for good reason.

Qarr might be a...he might have ...- he could have...Qarr might be ... [/QUOTE]
And as others have put it "If my grandmother had wheels and a bell, she might be a San Francisco trolly car."
Sure Qarr Might be a lot of things, but where is the evidence of that? All we see is that he is pretty studly by the lowly standards of an imp. He stays out of the fights and tries to give advice from the safe rear. And that is what you should expect to see in the future.

[SPoD]

I think that what the imp wanted on the ship was in fact Varsuuvius. Seeing V fly by means he no longer needs to go on the ship.

This. This was exactly my interpretation.


In fact, I bet that he has wanted V all along, and was manipulating Kubota to remove the paladins in order to achieve that end.

But not this. I think Qarr made a decision to seek out V after he saw V zap Kubota; he could easily have done so while invisible or simply hidden. Once the paladins came back on board the ship, he was worried about being caught by Lien's Detect Evil. As he sits there and ruminates, his target flies by past him. Problem solved!

The reason it is unlikely that Qarr was there for V all along is that the time between Sabine's masters learning about the Gates and Qarr's off-screen speech balloon in #484 was less than 48 hours...and in #484, he is clearly already in a position of trust with Kubota. It makes no sense for him to have been dispatched from Hell less than two days before and already have worked his way into Kubota's good graces.

[factotum]

Does Qarr know Kubota is dead? I didn't have that impression. My impression is that he's going back to impersonate V.

Going back? The last thing we saw of Qarr he was flying toward V, who was flying AWAY from the ship--why would he be doing that if all he wants to do is return to the ship pretending to BE V?

[Jan Mattys]

So now Qarr will attemp and most probably succeed in convincing V that he's her ticket to saving the world :

- He will offer transportation to the lower planes, where superior scrying equipement is available. They will use this mojo to locate Haley, collect her and the rest of the party, return to Elan and Durkon, rez Roy, get the plot moving to the next gate and gain control of the Snarl themselves.

- Only, V is the only one who knows that the OOTS are now secretly working for a group of bad guys. In exchange for the devil's assistance, V must leave control of the Snarl to them, but she makes a deal for considerable arcane power in exchange as well as protection of the elven lands, which is pretty much the only thing she still cares for except power.


/me likes.