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Guinea Anubis
2008-10-09, 07:17 AM
So my friend called me lastnight and told me he wants to run a 4e game and asked if I wanted to play. I made up my mind to play something that is not 100% optimal. After 2 or 3 ideas I made up my mind to play a Halfling Warlord. So I never played one before and I just used the suggestions the PHB gave me and got this.



Level 1 Halfling Warlord

Initiative: +2
Senses: Perception -1;
HP 27; Bloodied 13
AC 17; Fortitude 14; Reflex 13; Will 15
Healing Surges: 9 per day, recovers 6 hp.
Speed 5
Basic Attacks: melee +3; ranged +2
Attacks: Falchion +6 melee (2d4), Sling +4 ranged (1d6)

At-Will Powers: Furious Smash, Commander's Strike
Encounter Powers: Guarding Attack, Inspiring Word [class], Second Chance [racial]
Daily Powers: Bastion of Defense

Alignment: Unaligned
Languages: Common, Draconic
Skills: Acrobatics +3, Arcana +2, Athletics +2, Bluff +4, Diplomacy* +9, Dungeoneering -1, Endurance +1, Heal* +4, History* +7, Insight -1, Intimidate* +9, Nature -1, Perception -1, Religion +2, Stealth +1, Streetwise +4, Thievery +3.
*indicates trained skills

Abilities: Str 16 (+3); Dex 14 (+2); Con 15 (+2); Int 15 (+2); Wis 8 (-1); Cha 19 (+4)
Feats: Inspired Recovery
Racial Abilities: Bold, Nimble Reaction
Class Abilities: Combat Leader, inspiring word, Commanding Presence [Inspiring Presence]

Gear: Chainmail, Light shield, Falchion, Sling, backpack, bedroll, flint and steel, belt pouch, trail rations (10 days), hempen rope (50 ft.), sunrods (2), waterskin, 14 gp

tinwatchman 4e starting character generator v0.24
programmed by jon stout for the tinwatchman company. available at www.tinwatchman.com

So what do you all think?

RebelRogue
2008-10-09, 07:26 AM
Halflings actually make fine Inspiring Warlords, so I dunno about unoptimized. I do find the concept hilarious, though :smallsmile:

Raz_Fox
2008-10-09, 07:26 AM
Sorry to burst your bubble, but Halflings can't use Falchions. They can, however, go down the scimitar+shield route. Other than that, the stats seem very high for point buy.

This seems like a really cool idea! How are you going to roleplay him? :smallsmile:

Edit: :smallbiggrin: Scimitars ain't versitile. That is why we can have Kobold Guardian Fighters.

Guinea Anubis
2008-10-09, 07:37 AM
Sorry to burst your bubble, but Halflings can't use Falchions. They can, however, go down the scimitar+shield route. Other than that, the stats seem very high for point buy.

This seems like a really cool idea! How are you going to roleplay him? :smallsmile:


You are right they are high for a point buy, that is because we rolled and I got luck when it comes to rolling stats (but we wont go in to the low rolls I will get for the rest of the game).

I was going to RP him with a bit Napoleon complex (was even going to make him short for a Halfling)

Blackfang108
2008-10-09, 08:24 AM
I was going to RP him with a bit Napoleon complex (was even going to make him short for a Halfling)

That should be PRICELESS.

TricksyAndFalse
2008-10-09, 08:41 AM
Both of the at-wills you have sacrifice your own attack (with the exception of using Furious Smash on low-Fort minions). If you're cool by this going in, that's great. I was frustrated by this with my own warlord, and retrained one away for one of the other at-wills as soon as I could. Your strength, intelligence and charisma are all very impressive, and I think one of the at-wills that lets you do some damage will benefit you and your team just as much as these two at-wills.

What other classes are in your party? If you have no fighters, rogues, or melee rangers, I suggest taking Wolf Pack Tactics instead of Commander's Strike. If you have these other classes present, then Commander's Strike remains an excellent choice.

Guinea Anubis
2008-10-09, 08:51 AM
Both of the at-wills you have sacrifice your own attack (with the exception of using Furious Smash on low-Fort minions). If you're cool by this going in, that's great. I was frustrated by this with my own warlord, and retrained one away for one of the other at-wills as soon as I could. Your strength, intelligence and charisma are all very impressive, and I think one of the at-wills that lets you do some damage will benefit you and your team just as much as these two at-wills.

What other classes are in your party? If you have no fighters, rogues, or melee rangers, I suggest taking Wolf Pack Tactics instead of Commander's Strike. If you have these other classes present, then Commander's Strike remains an excellent choice.


Thanks, are DM is/was being very generous on how we did dice rolls(4d6 toss out lowest reroll 1s, 7 rolls toss out lowest) and we could place them how ever we wanted.

And I have no idea what the others are playing yet.

Kurald Galain
2008-10-09, 09:37 AM
Thanks, are DM is/was being very generous on how we did dice rolls(5d6 toss out lowest reroll 1s, 7 rolls toss out lowest) and we could place them how ever we wanted.

I'll say! That's a combination of three different "roll improving" systems, all stacked!

Yakk
2008-10-09, 09:56 AM
*nod* -- note that your scimitar will mainly be used for OAs. Both the other two attacks are "someone else attacks instead of me".

These make decent attacks, especially if you have a striker with a good basic attack. Granting a striker a + to hit, or an extra attack, can deal more damage than you would.

The +to hit should be your 'default' attack, which you give to whomever has a good encounter or daily power to use next turn. Doing that will up your groups damage/day significantly, but it does require your allies to save their per-encounter/day powers for a good moment.

The commander's strike should be tossed at a high-damage-output party member, ideally with flanking. Remember that striker bonus damage only works once per round -- so tossing it at a striker when the striker misses is a good move (I think that works -- striker bonus damage refreshes at the start, or end, of their round again?)

Asbestos
2008-10-09, 10:02 AM
Wait... can he use a scimitar (a versatile weapon) and a shield? I thought versatile weapons basically became 2-handers only for the little guys. Looks pretty good, Wolf Pack tactics though... I can't say enough good stuff about that power. Buddy in trouble... shift him away... need to set up that rogue for a sneak attack... shift him in.
Btw, making "not 100% optimal" characters is awesome.

ColdSepp
2008-10-09, 10:09 AM
Wait... can he use a scimitar (a versatile weapon) and a shield? I thought versatile weapons basically became 2-handers only for the little guys. Looks pretty good, Wolf Pack tactics though... I can't say enough good stuff about that power. Buddy in trouble... shift him away... need to set up that rogue for a sneak attack... shift him in.
Btw, making "not 100% optimal" characters is awesome.

If a Scimitar was a versatile weapon, he would have to use it two handed. It is not, being a Heavy Blade, High Crit only.

The Mormegil
2008-10-09, 11:43 AM
At-wills are not that good, but apart from that it's ok. Note that since your Strength is so low, your to-hit will be low. At the very least. Grab Bracers of Arcane Might as fast as you can (lvl 6 item, Adventurer's Vault, they give an encounter power that lets you use the highest mental stat instead of Strength for anything - including attack rolls - once).
That should be enough to land a daily...

Mando Knight
2008-10-09, 12:30 PM
Note that since your Strength is so low, your to-hit will be low.

His strength is fine. I've got a Paladin who's got the same Strength, but he hits rather reliably...

Speaking of which, you may want to multi into either a Charisma-based Warlock or Paladin, just for the Charisma attacks...

skywalker
2008-10-09, 12:31 PM
At-wills are not that good, but apart from that it's ok. Note that since your Strength is so low, your to-hit will be low. At the very least. Grab Bracers of Arcane Might as fast as you can (lvl 6 item, Adventurer's Vault, they give an encounter power that lets you use the highest mental stat instead of Strength for anything - including attack rolls - once).
That should be enough to land a daily...

I see a 16 strength... Which is pretty much all you can ask for from a warlord whose race doesn't grant a strength bonus... And the at-wills are actually the best for high charisma and high intelligence, respectively. It's just a question that most warlords don't have the stats for both. Since he does, it might be ok but some people(myself included) prefer to always have an at-will that does weapon damage. I guess it's not too big a deal, if he doesn't have a problem with sometimes making basic attacks(which is really all either of the weapon at-wills are, if there's nobody to benefit from their affects, I know this from experience).

The only possible problem is at higher levels:What two stats do you continue to boost? You're probably gonna have to forget about commander's strike as your intelligence lags behind your charisma and your strength(these will be the two stats you must increase).

Are there any rules about retraining class features? Because I think it would be awesome to start a character with these stats(or similar ones), who was an inspiring warlord, and then re-train him to tac-lord as he got into higher levels(and just always bump strength and intelligence, forget charisma) due to the fact that inspiring warlords are more useful at low-levels, but tac-lords shine more at higher levels.

KillianHawkeye
2008-10-09, 03:47 PM
Besides what everyone else has already said, I'd train Perception rather than Intimidate, unless you chose Intimidate for RP reasons. As the leader, you'll wanna be able to spot your enemies at some point.

@skywalker: Sorry, you can't retrain class features.

Oracle_Hunter
2008-10-09, 03:56 PM
Something to think about: The CrimeLord.

This is my pet halfling warlord build which is a Warlord & Rogue MC. Basically, you equip yourself with a Light Shield, Hide Armor, and a Light Blade (Shortsword or Rapier). Team up with the Rogue to ensure constant CA, and you can use some Rogue Attacks for truly epic de-buffs, or at least get Sneak Attack damage once per Encounter. Plus, you can team up with the Rogue for scouting missions by taking some Rogue Utilities.

All you need to do is make this a STR, DEX, CHA character (strong on all three saves), and take MC Rogue for 1st level. It's not too bad to lose the INT because, as a careful read of the Warlord Powers reveals, very few of the powers allow you to get extra bonuses from a high INT if you are not a Tactical Warlord already. Swap Commander's Strike for Wolf Pack Tactics if you'd like, though Commander's Strike is useful even with a low INT.

That's my advice anyhow. :smallbiggrin:

NeoVid
2008-10-09, 03:58 PM
It's a very good idea for a warlord to use a reach weapon if at all possible.

With stats like that, I don't see this turning out to be very suboptimal. You're even set up for Deadly Axe and Axe Mastery without even burning up stat boosts...

Oracle_Hunter
2008-10-09, 04:01 PM
It's a very good idea for a warlord to use a reach weapon if at all possible.

With stats like that, I don't see this turning out to be very suboptimal. You're even set up for Deadly Axe and Axe Mastery without even burning up stat boosts...

Halflings can't use two-handed or versatile weapons.

String
2008-10-09, 04:51 PM
They CAN use versatile weapons, but must use them as Two-handed weapons with no damage increase.

Oracle_Hunter
2008-10-09, 05:08 PM
They CAN use versatile weapons, but must use them as Two-handed weapons with no damage increase.

Heh, right :smallredface:

Guinea Anubis
2008-10-09, 08:48 PM
just found out we are starting at level 4.

Oracle_Hunter
2008-10-09, 09:02 PM
just found out we are starting at level 4.

OK then. You're now a 4th level Halfling Inspiring Warlord. What kind of adventurer do you want to be?

Guinea Anubis
2008-10-09, 10:25 PM
I was thinking of trying out this build


Level 4 Halfling Warlord

Initiative: +8
HP 42; Bloodied 21
AC 20; Fortitude 16; Reflex 17; Will 18
Healing Surges: 9 per day, recovers 10 hp.
Speed 5
Basic Attacks: melee +3; ranged +2
Attacks: Scimitar +7 melee (1d8), Sling +6 ranged (1d6)

At-Will Powers: Wolf Pack Tactic, Commander's Strike
Encounter Powers: Guarding Attack, Warlord's Strike, Inspiring Word [class], Second Chance [racial]
Daily Powers: Bastion of Defense
Utility Powers: Knights Move

Alignment: Unaligned
Languages: Common, Draconic
Skills: Acrobatics +4, Arcana +5, Athletics +5, Bluff +7, Diplomacy* +12, Dungeoneering +1, Endurance +4, Heal* +6, History* +10, Insight +1, Intimidate* +12, Nature +1, Perception +1, Religion +5, Stealth +4, Streetwise +7, Thievery +4.
*indicates trained skills

Abilities: Str 16 (+3); Dex 14 (+2); Con 15 (+2); Int 16 (+3); Wis 8 (-1); Cha 20 (+5)
Feats: Inspired Recovery, Improved Initiative, Halfling Agility
Racial Abilities: Bold, Nimble Reaction
Class Abilities: Combat Leader, inspiring word, Commanding Presence [Inspiring Presence]

Gear: Chainmail, Light shield, Scimitar, Sling, backpack, bedroll, flint and steel, belt pouch, trail rations (10 days), hempen rope (50 ft.), sunrods (2), waterskin, 97 gp

All of that with a Napoleon Complex

Oracle_Hunter
2008-10-09, 10:33 PM
Decided not to go with the CrimeLord, eh? It's OK, nobody ever does :smallfrown:

I'd say swap out Commander's Strike for Furious Smash. You'll get a lot more out of your CHA than INT, and you should note, per the Errata (http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1396), that you can only Commander's Strike the guy you're fighting, and Basic Attacks aren't usually all that good.

Who else is in your party?

Guinea Anubis
2008-10-10, 05:40 AM
Decided not to go with the CrimeLord, eh? It's OK, nobody ever does :smallfrown:


I was still thinking about multi classing in to it :smallsmile:




Who else is in your party?

I am not 100% sure. I know there is going to be a Dwaf ranger thats a 2 weapon fighter. There may be a cleric and the last one is still up in the air.

Yakk
2008-10-10, 09:56 AM
Some minor changes in bold:

Level 4 Halfling Warlord

Initiative: +8
HP 42; Bloodied 21
AC 20; Fortitude 16; Reflex 17; Will 18
Healing Surges: 9 per day, recovers 10 hp.
Speed 5
Basic Attacks: melee +3; ranged +2
Attacks: Scimitar +7 melee (1d8 +3), Sling +6 ranged (1d6 +2)

At-Will Powers: Wolf Pack Tactic, Commander's Strike
Encounter Powers: Guarding Attack, Warlord's Strike, Inspiring Word [class], Second Chance [racial]
Daily Powers: Bastion of Defense
Utility Powers: Knights Move

Alignment: Unaligned
Languages: Common, Draconic
Skills: Acrobatics +4, Arcana +5, Athletics +5, Bluff +7, Diplomacy* +12, Dungeoneering +1, Endurance +4, Heal* +6, History* +10, Insight +1, Intimidate* +12, Nature +1, Perception +1, Religion +5, Stealth +4, Streetwise +7, Thievery +4.
*indicates trained skills

Abilities: Str 16 (+5); Dex 14 (+4); Con 15 (+4); Int 16 (+5); Wis 8 (+1); Cha 20 (+7)
Feats: Inspired Recovery, Improved Initiative, Halfling Agility
Racial Abilities: Bold, Nimble Reaction
Class Abilities: Combat Leader, inspiring word, Commanding Presence [Inspiring Presence]

Gear: Chainmail, Light shield, Scimitar, Sling, backpack, bedroll, flint and steel, belt pouch, trail rations (10 days), hempen rope (50 ft.), sunrods (2), waterskin, 97 gp

In addition, as a level 4 starting character, you get (by default) a level 5, 4, 3 magic item, and gold/equipment equivalent to a level 3 magic item. Your DM can, naturally, change this.

That's 680 gp in cash. Which is enough for a level 1 or 2 item with some cash left over for spare stuff.

Decent armors: Delver’s Armor (+2 retroactive bonus on a save, L 3), Dwarven Armor (L 2 -- extra self heal/day @ 520 gp), Eladrin Armor (no movement penalties, L 3), Magic Armor (L 1, cheap @ 360 gp).

Decent weapons: Terror Weapon (L 4), Vicious Weapon (L 2), Resounding Weapon (for your sling, L 2), Lightning Weapon (L 5, if you lack a controller).

Arm Slot Items: Bracers of Mighty Striking (+2 damage from basic attacks, L 2 item), Shield of Protection (L 3, standard action daily to give resist 10 to you and an adjacent ally).

Feet slot items: Acrobat's boots (L 2), Boots of Spider Climbing (L 5), Wavestrider Boots (L 4), Catstep Boots (L 3).

Acrobat's Boots is probably the default choice.

Hand slots: Ogre Power (1/day do +5 damage on a melee hit, L 5), Piercing (1/day, ignore up to resist 10, L 3).

Neck slot: Protection (L 1, cheap), Health (L 3, resist 5 poison), Cloak of Resistance (L 2, 1/day get resist 5 all for 1 turn, minor action), Safewing Amulet (-10 feet from fall damage L 3),

Waist Slot: Belt of Vigor (+1 healing surge value, L 2), Ironskin (minor daily, resist 5 all weapon damage 1 turn, L 5)

Misc: Bag of Holding (L 5), Everlasting Provisions (L 4)

Potions: Potion of Healing (50 gp, burn a healing surge to get 10 HP)

So... How about:
Terror Scimitar (L 4) (1/day debuff of target defenses is good for a boss fight)
Eladrin Chain (L 3) (gets rid of armor check penalty, and move penalty, from armor)
Cloak of Resistance (L 2) (why not? Note that you won't use this power often, as it eats your Terror Scimitar's daily use.)
Bag of Holding (L 5) (because I couldn't find a reason to get a L 5 other magic item, and having a sack is useful)
2 Potions of Healing
50 gp on other stuff (adventurer's kit, etc).

skywalker
2008-10-10, 10:16 AM
One minor tidbit about yakk's post, I'm pretty sure you don't add half your level to damage...


So... How about:
Terror Scimitar (L 4)
Eladrin Chain (L 3)
Cloak of Resistance (L 2)
Bag of Holding (L 5)
2 Potions of Healing
50 gp on other stuff (adventurer's kit, etc).

And in regards to the bold, characters above 1st-level are automatically assumed to have all the mundane items they want.

Guinea Anubis
2008-10-10, 11:27 AM
In addition, as a level 4 starting character, you get (by default) a level 5, 4, 3 magic item, and gold/equipment equivalent to a level 3 magic item. Your DM can, naturally, change this.

Can you please tell me what page number that is said on.



characters above 1st-level are automatically assumed to have all the mundane items they want.

Again could I please have a page number on where that is said.

skywalker
2008-10-10, 11:51 AM
Can you please tell me what page number that is said on.



Again could I please have a page number on where that is said.

Both are at the bottom of page 143 in the DMG.

Artanis
2008-10-10, 12:05 PM
It is absolutely required that some power only be used in conjuntion with threats to chop off somebody's kneecaps.

Bonus points if "chop" is replaced by "bite".

Oracle_Hunter
2008-10-10, 01:10 PM
I am not 100% sure. I know there is going to be a Dwaf ranger thats a 2 weapon fighter. There may be a cleric and the last one is still up in the air.

Hrm... two leaders and a Ranger Striker. That means you'll probably have a Defender for the fourth. Well, Wolf's Pack Tactics are less useful without a Rogue, but you definitely should get Furious Strike then - your Ranger will thank you.

Of course, giving CA to a Ranger is pretty good too, so I'd keep Wolf Pack Tactics - but I'm biased :smallbiggrin:

HidaTsuzua
2008-10-10, 02:42 PM
I've made a similar character. I will also agree with Wolf Pack Tactics. The free shift is more useful than it seems.

If you don't have a defender, you could try to make yourself more tanky. With a decent shield and armor and maybe MC into fighter/paladin, you can make a decent tank in a pinch. You can't mark at all or as often (if you MC), but you can still cause trouble and be a meatshield wall. Halflings are tough as old tree roots after all.