V = Probably the best/most successful/most serious villain in OotS ever?

[newbDM]

Since it seems a large portion of the community thinks V will become a new BBEG, if he/she does turn to the side of evil won't he/she potentially be the best and most serious (as in not OotS humorish and more standard BBEG) villain in Oots history?

Wouldn't he/she be practically unstoppable by the rest of the party?



Note: The point of this thread is not whether he/she will become evil. That has been discussed enough lately. The point is what a deadly, and possibly kickass villain he/she would make.

[Laurentio II]

Uhm... no. Vaarsuvius could not like it, but a wizard is powerful only for ten minutes a day. Otherwise, it requires a long field preparation to offset all weakness (mainly, by creating a barrier against melee fighters).
And, as Vaarsuvius banned the two most evilous schools, he is seriously handicapped in the evil deeds.
Last tip, the OotS party can't have a competent villain. It would end the comic.

[Ghastly Epigram]

Since it seems a large portion of the community thinks V will become a new BBEG, if he/she does turn to the side of evil won't he/she potentially be the best and most serious (as in not OotS humorish and more standard BBEG) villain in Oots history?

I answer this with a simple recommendation to get your hands on the brilliant Start of Darkness.

I cannot see Vaarsuvius comparing to Xykon or Redcloak.


Wouldn't he/she be practically unstoppable by the rest of the party?

As opposed to Team Evil, which has an epic level lich, a high level cleric, and a monster of apparent great strength? It would be a tough battle no doubt, but the rest of the Order could definitely take down Vaarsuvius.

But all that having been said, I do think it could be very interesting if pulled off well, and could take OOTS into deliciously dark territory. Vaarsuvius has always been one of my favorites.

EDIT:


Uhm... no. Vaarsuvius could not like it, but a wizard is powerful only for ten minutes a day. Otherwise, it requires a long field preparation to offset all weakness (mainly, by creating a barrier against melee fighters).
And, as Vaarsuvius banned the two most evilous schools, he is seriously handicapped in the evil deeds.

While I agree that Vaarsuvius is not ALL that powerful, he is still definitely the most powerful individual member of the Order. Beside, cannot he just Fly and spam spells from the sky or something? >.>

And while I do not pretend to know a whole lot about D&D, is conjuration all that "evil?" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0340.html)


Last tip, the OotS party can't have a competent villain. It would end the comic.

Err, Redcloak?

[Laurentio II]

Err, Redcloak?
Are you under the impression that Redcloak cares about the Order of the Stick? Maybe, but somehow...

[lord_khaine]

Are you under the impression that Redcloak cares about the Order of the Stick? Maybe, but somehow...

im not sure he would even remember their names, but he is still pretty competent.


While I agree that Vaarsuvius is not ALL that powerful, he is still definitely the most powerful individual member of the Order. Beside, cannot he just Fly and spam spells from the sky or something? >.>

he could do that, but as soon as Durkon gets him with a greater dispel magic, then he would be done for.

[Laurentio II]

he could do that, but as soon as Durkon gets him with a greater dispel magic, then he would be done for.
:durkon: "Ye as'ed fer it!"

[Ghastly Epigram]

Are you under the impression that Redcloak cares about the Order of the Stick? Maybe, but somehow...

If the Order shows up at the next gate when Redcloak is there, yes, I think he is going to care quite a bit actually. Sure, he is not going to spend all his energy specifically to seeking out and planning a way to completely crush the Order, but hey, neither would Vaarsuvius.

[AKA_Bait]

im not sure he would even remember their names, but he is still pretty competent.

Indeed, I'd say that he doesn't really care about the OotS but he does take them into account. We know for sure that he knows Roy's name. I suspect he's aware of who Haley is too if she has been enough of a thorn for the resistance.


:durkon: "Ye as'ed fer it!"

Some part of me really wants to see that happen. V is by far the most 'flashy' one in the order but I think Durkon is probably the most powerful. He just doesn't toss his power around like candy.

[factotum]

Some part of me really wants to see that happen. V is by far the most 'flashy' one in the order but I think Durkon is probably the most powerful. He just doesn't toss his power around like candy.

Actually, I'd agree there...while the use of Control Weather back in Cliffport may have been a little bit outside the rules as far as the gods are concerned, it certainly showed a great deal more power than V could at that moment.

[Issabella]

I would like to see Redcloak betraying Xykon and hooking up with V to accumulate total power, far far far fetched, but no worse then anything else proposed :).

Frankly a V and RC team up would be awesome.

[TreesOfDeath]

V's doomed to fail, Redcloak might have a chance. And as a villian, Redcloak is cooler and more sympathetic.

[Who_Da_Halfling]

The single biggest advantage that V would have over the Order is one that many villains have used in the past: the good guys' sympathy.

Given how long they have spent adventuring together (and given that Roy, Haley, and Belkar did not see V's fall), the Order would be somewhat averse to actually killing V. They would try to reason with, guilt-trip, or even re-convert V, but they would probably do what they could to not kill him/her. V, however, would, if s/he was a villain, be trying to Disintegrate them left and right.

This is a classic good guy weakness: the unwillingness to simply kill the enemy when necessary. That's why Daredevil was fun to watch (the writing and acting may have been meh, but it sure was refreshing watching a superhero kill bad guys).

-JM

[AstralFire]

I'm of the opinion that V's not terribly powerful against anyone else in the Order. Recall that Miko (a MONK/PALADIN. Good GOD.) managed to surprise pwn everyone 'cept Durkon at once, and Roy was an even match for her next time he was actually equipped. They're balanced around plot, and V is just the flashiest of them. Haley gets to show off her direct combat ability the least, but she's no slouch herself.


This is a classic good guy weakness: the unwillingness to simply kill the enemy when necessary. That's why Daredevil was fun to watch (the writing and acting may have been meh, but it sure was refreshing watching a superhero kill bad guys).

-JM

The use of this is so cliche that in 90% of the situations it could be used, my estimation of Mr. Burlew as a human being would probably drop. Also, it's not really a relevant genre convention for anyone but Elan and Hinjo.

[Lord_Drayakir]

Actually, supposing Redcloak breaks it off with Xykon... that would be so cool.

Xykon will have Tsukiko as the divine spellcaster, while Redcloak could find Evil:vaarsuvius:

[Laurentio II]

Actually, supposing Redcloak breaks it off with Xykon... that would be so cool.

Xykon will have Tsukiko as the divine spellcaster, while Redcloak could find Evil:vaarsuvius:
:redcloak: "Join my side! I'm going to threat the world to give goblinoids the dignity they deserve!"

:vaarsuvius: "Astonish! I'm so going to put aside all that matters for me to help the cause of goblins and orcs, in spite of everything I cared and believed so far! I was going to became a lich for not sufficiently explained reasons that at the moment I myself are missing, but this is a much more diversion from my plans, that I'm truthfully in need of following this path. Would you, perhaps, humor me giving me your back and closing your eyes while I perform a traditional elvish salute called "smackthegoblinassonthewallwithextremeprejudice?" "

[Guchalez]

Actually, I'd agree there...while the use of Control Weather back in Cliffport may have been a little bit outside the rules as far as the gods are concerned, it certainly showed a great deal more power than V could at that moment.

when Durkon used Control Weather he was reading a scroll.

[Callista]

I see V as being a wild card, much like Miko was--not quite evil, not quite on the good guys' side, either. Except, y'know, V being almost chaotic neutral now, and Miko being a really demented LG. Different reasons for their actions; same slot, plot-wise.

[Lord_Drayakir]

:redcloak: "Join my side! I'm going to threat the world to give goblinoids the dignity they deserve!"

:vaarsuvius: "Astonish! I'm so going to put aside all that matters for me to help the cause of goblins and orcs, in spite of everything I cared and believed so far! I was going to became a lich for not sufficiently explained reasons that at the moment I myself are missing, but this is a much more diversion from my plans, that I'm truthfully in need of following this path. Would you, perhaps, humor me giving me your back and closing your eyes while I perform a traditional elvish salute called "smackthegoblinassonthewallwithextremeprejudice?" "


He wouldn't get him with the goblinoids. He'd get him with a chance to study and subdue the snarl, possibly lying to him that he'd be able to tap into its power.

Hey, this forum is famous with crazy theory. Why not?

[Laurentio II]

He wouldn't get him with the goblinoids. He'd get him with a chance to study and subdue the snarl, possibly lying to him that he'd be able to tap into its power.

Hey, this forum is famous with crazy theory. Why not?
If you read the last line, you should note that I was one step ahead. MWUAAAA HAAA HAAA!

[snafu]

I don't see V becoming a villain. Well... not an adversary anyway. Evil, quite possibly; she has a goal in mind which she is set on achieving come what may, and is steadily losing interest in conventional restraints like morality, common decency, or friendship. But the goal she has in mind is the same as the rest of the OotS, so there's no reason she should actually turn on them.

[AKA_Bait]

He wouldn't get him with the goblinoids. He'd get him with a chance to study and subdue the snarl, possibly lying to him that he'd be able to tap into its power.

Hey, this forum is famous with crazy theory. Why not?

Why not indeed. I don't think there is much of a future for Xykon and RC, personally. Tsukiko's been introduced and is hanging around for a reason. One of them may decide they no longer need the other. Tsukiko isn't going to work with Redcloak, but she would work with Xykon. Seems plausable, if not likley.

We still don't know who the being those right four words are going to be said to, but given the power of the Snarl and the power V asked about it seems likley the two are connected.

[AstralFire]

RC becoming a third force isn't something I had considered and don't know the plausibility of, but sounds cool and emotionally makes sense.

[JT Jag]

Last tip, the OotS party can't have a competent villain. It would end the comic.Redcloak is a Dangerously Genre Savvy priest significantly higher level then any of the PCs... and Xykon is eerily efficient when he's angry.

[David Argall]

Actually, supposing Redcloak breaks it off with Xykon... that would be so cool.
That would be so unlikely...
However much the fanboys want to ignore it, Redcloak is an absolute slave of Xykon, who deems him much too valuable to replace. They are not going to break up until after all the gates are gone.


Xykon will have Tsukiko as the divine spellcaster, while Redcloak could find Evil:vaarsuvius:
And the party plays a rubber of Bridge while the evil guys duke it out...
This is the story of how the party saves the world, not how they watch it being saved. So no.

[B. Dandelion]

One point that some people seem to be overlooking is that Xykon can't just replace Redcloak with another divine caster. Thus far he is the only character we know of who knows the rituals to take control of a Gate, because the knowledge is inherent to the Crimson Mantle. Hypothetically, he could give it to another goblin cleric (which he is explicitly not willing to do), or Xykon could kill him and give it to someone else, but I don't know if it'd even work on a human.

[Lichtouch]

Redcloak is a Dangerously Genre Savvy priest significantly higher level then any of the PCs... and Xykon is eerily efficient when he's angry.

Xykon is eerily efficient all the time. Redcloak fears him for a reason: While he appears to be a pretty stupid guy, he's quite intelligent and far more powerful and resilient than a skeleton should be. Look at how easily he disposed of Roy, for example. He was quite intelligent about it too.

[Axl_Rose]

Xykon is eerily efficient all the time. Redcloak fears him for a reason: While he appears to be a pretty stupid guy, he's quite intelligent and far more powerful and resilient than a skeleton should be. Look at how easily he disposed of Roy, for example. He was quite intelligent about it too.

Xykon's disposal of Roy is not a good example of being efficient; it was rather wreckless. He took several hits and lost his badass dragon.

If it hadn't been for Tsukiko healing the dmg he sustained from Roy, who woulda known whether or not he would been destroyed by Soon before the castle exploded.

No, Xykon is not *always* efficient.

[AKA_Bait]

One point that some people seem to be overlooking is that Xykon can't just replace Redcloak with another divine caster. Thus far he is the only character we know of who knows the rituals to take control of a Gate, because the knowledge is inherent to the Crimson Mantle. Hypothetically, he could give it to another goblin cleric (which he is explicitly not willing to do), or Xykon could kill him and give it to someone else, but I don't know if it'd even work on a human.

I'm not so sure about this. Xykon was in control of the first gate for quite a while without taking controll of it. If RC knew exactly how then why didn't they just do it then?

[Lorn]

My thoughts on the matter:

V and RC will end up teaming up to kill Xykon.

No, seriously, think about this. You need an arcane and divine caster to open some gates. RC is often shown to be seriously sick of Xykon, and who can blame him? Meanwhile, V will see the gates as a path to power, and Xykon as a pretty big obstacle there who also happens to posess several powerful magical artifacts which, obvious, V can use better...

I mean, Qarr and RC together could probably talk V into it.

[B. Dandelion]

I'm not so sure about this. Xykon was in control of the first gate for quite a while without taking controll of it. If RC knew exactly how then why didn't they just do it then?
Dorukan's Gate was warded -- it zapped anyone who tried to access it. They didn't figure out how to bypass it until Nale showed up. But that was particular to his Gate, not all the Gates.

I bring it up because Xykon came very near to killing Redcloak but for the fact that he was the only person with the relevant knowledge. I'm pretty sure that if Xykon didn't think he needed him, he'd be dead by now.

[Ron Miel]

If V became a vilain, I think that Haley could take him out with Sneak Attack. Casting Protection From Arrows before a battle is one thing. I don't think he could keep it on permanently, could he?