Recommend a martial art to Dox

[Proven_Paradox]

So. Something I've always wanted to do, but never really gotten around to, is learn a martial art. The Likelihood of this happening any time soon is rather low right now, but it's still something I'd like to do sometime, and I figure I might as well try to gather some information on it now.

Here's the deal. I'm 6'3" tall, 350+ pounds. A non-trivial amount of that is muscle, and I'm working on the rest. I have decent reflexes, but lack agility and flexibility. I've been to stretching exercise practices where the instructor said "do like this" like it was not a big deal, and found myself in blinding pain attempting to replicate the motion, and would like to avoid that in the future.

If possible, what I would like is a martial art style that would teach me how to best capitalize on my rather impressive mass. Adverts for most martial arts seem to emphasize agility and flexibility (note: I've done very little actual research on the topic; this is just a first impression from a rather short search), and I'd rather play to my strengths than my weaknesses.

Anyone have some recommendations?

[DMfromTheAbyss]

Sort of depends on your body type, alot of kung fu types insist that everyperson has an animal style that their body type supports or at least can do better. That being said as a tall wide guy (5'10 and 200lbs) I got taught "Bear" style, which largely involves taking advantage of being larger than your opponent, Interestingly enough I got good enough that when confronted by a 6'3" 300 lb guy who then joined the class I could actually throw him around a bit... and he was convinced I was way stronger than him untill I taught him a few tricks... well then I got picked up over his head and figured I should definately experiment with other styles.

Depending on your body type and such you might be better at certain styles, but you'd best leave it to a teacher to make that call, just avoid Capoeira (requires a lot of flexibility IMHO) and try out a few different teachers... becouse every martial art is the best for you when your paying them for lessons... just take advantage of the 1-2 lessons free alot of MA places have and pick out one that appeals to you.

Just be warned martial arts are all about how much effort you put in... being good and really improving takes time and effort, it's more about hard work than neat tricks.

[Jack Squat]

I'd recommend Krav Maga. I haven't taken it, but have been told it's pretty good. As soon as I get the time (meaning out of college), I'll give it a go. It's pretty much designed to incapacitate your opponent as fast as you can, so it shouldn't really require huge amounts of flexibility.

Tae Kwon Do is more prevelant, but the quality of classes varies greatly on instructors (more so than other styles). My instructor was taught by a guy who trained the city police force for decades, so I learned more practical stuff than a lot of the showy stuff you'll see at tournaments and expos.

Other than that, there's Judo, Jujitsu, Akido, and a whole host of others that are good. Personally, I don't like the style of Isshinryu, but that could also be just the guy who taught my friend.

[Swordguy]

Why do you want to do this? Is it to be a good fighter? To win a streetfight? For personal improvement? To find your "center"? To defend yourself?

Each of these leads to a different art.

[Yulian]

Krav. It's what I do (I'm taking a little hiatus for October and all, too busy).

Pure utilitarian, it works with your advantages of size and strength, it is great for conditioning. Nothing in it isn't useful. I highly recommend it. It teaches you to assess a situation rapidly, attack the source of a threat, and get away safely. We do knife, gun, and stick defenses, and you hit, hit, hit. There's next to no punching the air. It's all pads, bags, and people.

Do be aware that it is not a combat system (my instructor is very picky about the term) designed to safely take down a threat with a minimum of harm. It is designed to really well...really hurt a threat. Sometimes quite badly. We actually have some issues with being able to spar at the earlier levels I'm at because there's a lot of things you can't "pull" and learn to do effectively...thus all the pad and bag work.

- Yulian

[reorith]

1. buy a gun
2. practice gun-kata or gun-fu
3. ???
4. profit

[Raiser Blade]

Learn Deja-fu.

Move through time, beat up your opponent in the past.

Domination ensues.

[Jack Squat]

2. practice gun-kata or gun-fu


NO!

If you decide you want protection, and get a gun. Practice normally. Rolling around on the ground and leaping sideways through the air will get you shot.

[reorith]

NO!

If you decide you want protection, and get a gun. Practice normally. Rolling around on the ground and leaping sideways through the air will get you shot.

pssshhh
which is cooler? this (http://i37.tinypic.com/2e37uxl.jpg) or this (http://i35.tinypic.com/jb22jt.jpg)? like martial arts and the whole hand to hand thing is pretty cool and what not, but take a class in tactical shotgun like i did and you'll wonder why how you ever lived without it.

[TSGames]

Krav.

Agreed. Krav Maga is an extremely practical fighting style that is still used today. There is no showy and ineffective technique in Krav Maga. That said, it is not for everyone.

Krav Maga, at least the way I trained in it, had three basic assumptions:
1)You are fighting for survival
2)You are outnumbered
3)At least one of your opponents is armed

Naturally, this makes it a fighting style that is very lethal, builds quick reflexes, and excellent endurance, but if you feel that you will never be prepared to kill someone in combat, then I highly suggest you take something else.

[UncleWolf]

Try Shotokan, it is a rather rigid style, but you still need to improve your flexibility for any martial arts.
for a little more info go here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotokan

decent source but you may want to ask around.

[Icewalker]

So Blue was modeled on yourself, eh? He is awesome...

I'd suggest Baguazhang just because Baguazhang is really awesome. It's also little known (ie probably hard to find a way to learn) and looks really hard, and I know no connection between it and any specific body type, but it's just so cool...

[paddyfool]

I've only tried pursuing four martial arts at all seriously - Judo, Kapoeira, Shaolin Kung Fu, and Kyokushin Karate. Of these, I think your physique might give you the best advantages for Judo, but I personally have found I've enjoyed my Kung Fu training the most. I settled down with Kung Fu because - and this may make me sound like a bit of a hippy - it just makes me feel great. Total wellbeing. But I can't promise that all classes will give you that, or even that you'd get that from my own class. Some of my friends that I took along hated it (too much of a focus on cardiovascular fitness and conditioning for them). But enough about me.

Different martial arts classes will be focussed on different things. Some of the main foci may be:

Fitness (which may in turn be broken down into varying emphases on strength, speed, flexibility, balance, conditioning and so forth)
Personal, psychological development (finding your centre, discipline, and so forth)
Self defence
Sparring (not at all the same as self defence)
Fun

They may also vary on axes of violence, from very non-violent arts that are totally focussed on interior well-being, such as Tai Chi (at least as it is usually taught) to ones originally designed for military organisations that are focussed mainly on ruthless self defence (such as Krav Maga or Systema) and all else in between; on axes of focussing on grappling or striking (it may surprise you, but it's often argued that a fighter gets more of an advantage from weight in a striking art than a grappling one - take a look at the width of weight categories in boxing vs wrestling); and all sorts of other ways.

Overall, what you get out of it may well depend more on the quality of the individual teacher, and your personal qualities, than the quality of the art itself. Most martial arts will be good for you in a whole range of ways - good for your confidence and self-control in violent situations and your general ability to manage them, good for your cardiovascular fitness, strength, balance, flexibility and coordination, and for your general wellbeing. Shop around, try a few, and see where you settle down.

[bosssmiley]

Learn Deja-fu.
Move through time, beat up your opponent in the past.
Domination ensues.

Hah! :smallamused:

Ninjitsu. It's great fun. Loads of grapples, locks and holds.

And you get a headband and an orange jumpsuit and everything... :smalltongue:

[thubby]

how about "regular" old karate? it's very direct in just about everything. your size is an enormous asset since the whole thing emphasizes efficiency through short direct blows. just expect to leave any sparing with bruises.
or you might like boxing, for that matter.

[Jack Squat]

pssshhh
which is cooler? this (http://i37.tinypic.com/2e37uxl.jpg) or this (http://i35.tinypic.com/jb22jt.jpg)? like martial arts and the whole hand to hand thing is pretty cool and what not, but take a class in tactical shotgun like i did and you'll wonder why how you ever lived without it.

There's a difference in "tactical" classes, which teach you actual techniques for stuff like clearing rooms, facing multiple attackers, and firing on the move and what not, and then there's copying stuff out of Wanted/Equilibrium/most other action movies.

The former I'm fine with, because it's a useful skill, the latter...not so much.

[potatocubed]

If you're looking for something a little less lethal than krav maga, I recommend jujitsu. You might have some trouble with the throws (especially if you get paired with a 5 foot nothing girl) but the grappling and ground work should be right up your street.

[Proven_Paradox]

Sort of depends on your body type, alot of kung fu types insist that everyperson has an animal style that their body type supports or at least can do better. That being said as a tall wide guy (5'10 and 200lbs) I got taught "Bear" style, which largely involves taking advantage of being larger than your opponent, Interestingly enough I got good enough that when confronted by a 6'3" 300 lb guy who then joined the class I could actually throw him around a bit... and he was convinced I was way stronger than him untill I taught him a few tricks... well then I got picked up over his head and figured I should definately experiment with other styles.

Depending on your body type and such you might be better at certain styles, but you'd best leave it to a teacher to make that call, just avoid Capoeira (requires a lot of flexibility IMHO) and try out a few different teachers... becouse every martial art is the best for you when your paying them for lessons... just take advantage of the 1-2 lessons free alot of MA places have and pick out one that appeals to you.

Just be warned martial arts are all about how much effort you put in... being good and really improving takes time and effort, it's more about hard work than neat tricks.Body type: Tall body, short limbs, broad shoulders, strong legs (on the leg press, I'm lifting over 550 lbs. and working my way to 600, assuming I don't run out of freeweights or rack space first). I'm too tall to be rightly called stocky, but other than the height, that's close--think of a tall DnD dwarf, really. Somehow, "bear" seems like it would be fitting. And yeah, I'm staying the hell away from Capoeira. Fun as it is to watch, I'm quite certain I would hurt myself and everyone within a ten foot radius trying to do some of that stuff.
I'd recommend Krav Maga. I haven't taken it, but have been told it's pretty good. As soon as I get the time (meaning out of college), I'll give it a go. It's pretty much designed to incapacitate your opponent as fast as you can, so it shouldn't really require huge amounts of flexibility.

Tae Kwon Do is more prevelant, but the quality of classes varies greatly on instructors (more so than other styles). My instructor was taught by a guy who trained the city police force for decades, so I learned more practical stuff than a lot of the showy stuff you'll see at tournaments and expos.

Other than that, there's Judo, Jujitsu, Akido, and a whole host of others that are good. Personally, I don't like the style of Isshinryu, but that could also be just the guy who taught my friend.Krav Maga is one I find myself quite curious about. From what little I've looked into it, Tae Kwon Do seems to be more focused on flexibility, and like I said, I'd rather play to my strengths. I don't know a whole lot about the others.
Why do you want to do this? Is it to be a good fighter? To win a streetfight? For personal improvement? To find your "center"? To defend yourself?

Each of these leads to a different art.A combination of getting in shape and self defense. I life weights and enjoy that, and when I'm not too tired for it I play DDR sometimes, but something more structured would yeild better results on the in-shape part, methinks. I dislike sports, but somehow I think this is something I would have an easier time sticking with. Self defense training is good too.


Krav. It's what I do (I'm taking a little hiatus for October and all, too busy).

Pure utilitarian, it works with your advantages of size and strength, it is great for conditioning. Nothing in it isn't useful. I highly recommend it. It teaches you to assess a situation rapidly, attack the source of a threat, and get away safely. We do knife, gun, and stick defenses, and you hit, hit, hit. There's next to no punching the air. It's all pads, bags, and people.

Do be aware that it is not a combat system (my instructor is very picky about the term) designed to safely take down a threat with a minimum of harm. It is designed to really well...really hurt a threat. Sometimes quite badly. We actually have some issues with being able to spar at the earlier levels I'm at because there's a lot of things you can't "pull" and learn to do effectively...thus all the pad and bag work.

- YulianLike I said above, Krav Maga is one that's got my attention. Knowing that it's all bags and bags and people makes it seem more appealing to me; air-punching seems like it would be considerably less satisfying. As for hurting people... It's not something I like, but when defending myself, I don't think I'd have a problem with that. Having never had to REALLY defend myself like that though, I couldn't tell you for sure.
Agreed. Krav Maga is an extremely practical fighting style that is still used today. There is no showy and ineffective technique in Krav Maga. That said, it is not for everyone.

Krav Maga, at least the way I trained in it, had three basic assumptions:
1)You are fighting for survival
2)You are outnumbered
3)At least one of your opponents is armed

Naturally, this makes it a fighting style that is very lethal, builds quick reflexes, and excellent endurance, but if you feel that you will never be prepared to kill someone in combat, then I highly suggest you take something else.Brutal. Still, like I said above, it's got my interest and seems like something I'd like. As for being able to kill--like I said, I don't -know- have never experienced it, but I -think- I'd be able to.
Try Shotokan, it is a rather rigid style, but you still need to improve your flexibility for any martial arts.
for a little more info go here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotokan

decent source but you may want to ask around.I checked a few videos on the subject. Seems a bit more rigid than I'd like, and I don't see much about the style that would allow me to utilize my mass that well. If anything, my relatively short limbs would hinder me.
So Blue was modeled on yourself, eh? He is awesome...

I'd suggest Baguazhang just because Baguazhang is really awesome. It's also little known (ie probably hard to find a way to learn) and looks really hard, and I know no connection between it and any specific body type, but it's just so cool...Hahahah no. Blue was in perfect atheletic shape and actually quite limber for a goliath. I've been working on it, but I'm still pretty much a fatass. Not as much so as I used to be, but no where near the point where I could stay that Blue was based on me. You'll also note that he was primarily using my home-brewed Capoeirista base class, and that I've already said that I'm no-where near flexible enough to pull that off. By-the-by, how's that game going since I dropped out?

As for Banguazhang, a quick video search reveals that is is indeed awesome, but looks to focus on flexibility and agility, and my being pudgy, short-limbed, and not flexible or agile would make me probably pretty bad at it. It certainly doesn't look like it would allow me to better utilize my size advantages.
I've only tried pursuing four martial arts at all seriously - Judo, Kapoeira, Shaolin Kung Fu, and Kyokushin Karate. Of these, I think your physique might give you the best advantages for Judo[...]
What exactly makes you think that? I'm not terribly familiar with Judo, so what about the art makes a heavy build good for it?


Different martial arts classes will be focussed on different things. Some of the main foci may be:

Fitness (which may in turn be broken down into varying emphases on strength, speed, flexibility, balance, conditioning and so forth)
Personal, psychological development (finding your centre, discipline, and so forth)
Self defence
Sparring (not at all the same as self defence)
Fun

They may also vary on axes of violence, from very non-violent arts that are totally focussed on interior well-being, such as Tai Chi (at least as it is usually taught) to ones originally designed for military organisations that are focussed mainly on ruthless self defence (such as Krav Maga or Systema) and all else in between; on axes of focussing on grappling or striking (it may surprise you, but it's often argued that a fighter gets more of an advantage from weight in a striking art than a grappling one - take a look at the width of weight categories in boxing vs wrestling); and all sorts of other ways. I'd like a focus on self-defense, with a fitness focus in strength. Like I said, I'm not big on agility or flexibility. The violence factor isn't that big of a deal to me. I'd like more of a focus on grappling than striking; my first instinct in a fight would likely be to go in shoulder-first and just try to overwhelm the other guy. I'd like something that can work with that.
Ninjitsu. It's great fun. Loads of grapples, locks and holds.Isn't a large part of ninjitsu focused on weapon techiniques? I honestly wouldn't know, since with something as popular media-wise as ninjitsu it's difficult to separate what was made up to satisfy the Rule of Cool and what the real thing is. If so, I'd prefer something mostly focused on unarmed techniques, since I'm not the type to carry a sword or throwing knives around.
how about "regular" old karate? it's very direct in just about everything. your size is an enormous asset since the whole thing emphasizes efficiency through short direct blows. just expect to leave any sparing with bruises.
or you might like boxing, for that matter.Well, I'd like some grappling to be involved in whatever I choose. Boxing's right out because of that. As I understand it, that puts karate out too, but if I'm wrong about that please correct me.
If you're looking for something a little less lethal than krav maga, I recommend jujitsu. You might have some trouble with the throws (especially if you get paired with a 5 foot nothing girl) but the grappling and ground work should be right up your street.Jujitsu is what I was actually looking at on my own before making this thread--though, yeah, ending up against a really small opponent seems like it could be a pretty major problem for me in any kind of non-striking style.

[Jack Squat]

From what little I've looked into it, Tae Kwon Do seems to be more focused on flexibility, and like I said, I'd rather play to my strengths.

While it does play on some flexibility, it also depends greatly on the instructor. Like I mentioned before, my instructor was a little more focused on useful stuff, and while we did work on stuff higher kicks that required some flexibility, a lot of the class focused on stuff we'd actually use in a fight if need be. Of course, most of the people out there teaching are more into the showy stuff, so I'm not going to try and push it...Krav is undoubtedly better for self defense, and more importantly, you show interest in it.

[thubby]

there is no way your going to find an inflexible grappling martial art.

[SadisticFishing]

Systema. Great martial art if you find a good teacher, lots of breathing exercises and such. Much fun.

There's grappling and striking, but most of the grappling is neck cranks, depending on your teacher - mine was first a Jujitsu guy, so he teaches a lot of everything, but Systema's about efficiency and streetfighting, so little actual Jujitsu is shown.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twBJbor12P0

[Destichado]

Good grief. :smalleek: You want to play to your strengths? Go BOXING.

You're a freaking mountain, you've got impressive leg strength, good enough reflexes and mobility to play DDR, and you want to hit things. That screams boxing.

With your size attributes, you definitely want to do stand-up fighting and dominate and stay away from groundfighting where lightweights have the advantage.

Having encountered a LOT of martial arts styles, including the Marine Corps' MCMAP program, I can say with a bit of authority that it doesn't matter how good you are or what style you use, it's *hard* to beat a large, standup fighter who doesn't want to go down and knows how to throw a punch. At least, without weapons it is. With weapons thrown in, that changes the equation quite a bit.

Go boxing. Then if you feel like branching out and using your legs or learning wrestling/grappling moves, you've got a base to hang all your other skills on. You might find it hard to come up with someone willing to go into the ring with you, :smallwink: but there will be plenty of people out there willing to train you.

[Swordguy]

Judging by your responses, I'd recommend boxing or Brazilian Jiu-jutsu. Krav Maga is a good one if you want to hurt people. You say you're going for self-defense - that's not the KM mindset. It's far more...proactive.

thubby, however, speaks with much truth. You wanna grapple, you need to get somewhat flexible. Not as much as a kicking art, granted, but you'll find that the more you flex, the more "give" you'll have before you have to tap out, which gives you more time to find a counter.

[Jack Squat]

Judging by your responses, I'd recommend boxing or Brazilian Jiu-jutsu. Krav Maga is a good one if you want to hurt people. You say you're going for self-defense - that's not the KM mindset. It's far more...proactive.

I'm probably wrong, but I was under the impression that the mindset is "hurt them before they hurt you" which is IMO a very good mindset for self defense. However, I do see what you're getting at; It may not be seen by a jury that breaking a guy's arm is an appropriate block for a jab.

[Swordguy]

I'm probably wrong, but I was under the impression that the mindset is "hurt them before they hurt you" which is IMO a very good mindset for self defense. However, I do see what you're getting at; It may not be seen by a jury that breaking a guy's arm is an appropriate block for a jab.

No, no. It's a different mindset on the part of the fighter. A fighter who trains with the idea of learning self-defense fights with an eye toward "If he does this, then I do that." Krav Maga is all about "he might to that, so I need to do that to him first."

Krav is a battlefield art, for military and irregular personnel in a setting where, if they don't wear your colors, they're a viable target. It is not a civilian defense art. It's a subtle but very, VERY important difference, especially if you're ever called upon to implement it, and during the resultant legal fallout.

You can always choose not implement it in such a way once you've learned it, but KM teaches an offensive mindset. The OP is asking for an art for self-defense. The spirit - the very soul - of the art isn't in line with what the OP is asking for.

*grr*

I'm trying to get the point across, and my vocabulary is coming up short. It's a very subtle difference, and hard to articulate.

[Return of Lanky]

Combat Juijitsu or Aikido would probably be beneficial. Kenjutsu also improves your footwork quite a bit... I've had plenty of complaints from teachers about other aspects of my training, but thanks to Kenjutsu I've never been sassed about my legwork.

Hrm, someone mentioned Boxing, which is probably good for conditioning and the like. Just don't get too wrapped up in it, or you'll start to forget that people can kick you in retaliation.

Wing Chun is also a lot of fun. Not especially focused on the big and burly types, though added reach and muscle certainly don't hurt.

[paddyfool]

I'd like a focus on self-defense, with a fitness focus in strength.

I'd go for something in the Ju-jitsu line then. Could be traditional Japanese, Brazilian, or whatever else you find a good teacher for; the only thing in that way I've tried is Judo (which is more about sport-sparring than self-defense, but is good fun). Japanese ju-jitsu would be a mixture of throws, grappling, and striking; Judo all about throw and grappling with the emphasis on throws, and Brazilian Ju-jitsu very much emphasises grappling, with lots of groundwork, and more of a self-defense application than Judo. But I also see the point of an earlier poster about your weight being very good for boxing - probably your next point of call if grappling doesn't interest you (also, although short arms aren't particularly good for either, they're probably more usable in Boxing; in either way, short arms means you've less reach, but in grappling arts you've also got less leverage, whereas in striking arts you've got more speed).

[Ethrael]

As far as I know, if you're looking for fitness in martial arts, you're being a bit too picky. (I think) The martial arts I've been exposed to have been mostly explosive, and energy-consuming. They build up your muscle, but not your fitness. Then again, I know of only a few of them.

From reading about you, I would say Judo perhaps. It's for bigger people, it's not exactly terribly deathly, i.e. a bit light-hearted and it definetily focuses on your mass rather than agility. Someone in my school who does it can't exactly be said to be nimble but he's one of the strongest there is. Judo isn't so much self-defense though, but look into it if you're at all interested.

[Jack Squat]

No, no. It's a different mindset on the part of the fighter. A fighter who trains with the idea of learning self-defense fights with an eye toward "If he does this, then I do that." Krav Maga is all about "he might to that, so I need to do that to him first."

Krav is a battlefield art, for military and irregular personnel in a setting where, if they don't wear your colors, they're a viable target. It is not a civilian defense art. It's a subtle but very, VERY important difference, especially if you're ever called upon to implement it, and during the resultant legal fallout.

You can always choose not implement it in such a way once you've learned it, but KM teaches an offensive mindset. The OP is asking for an art for self-defense. The spirit - the very soul - of the art isn't in line with what the OP is asking for.

*grr*

I'm trying to get the point across, and my vocabulary is coming up short. It's a very subtle difference, and hard to articulate.

I understand what you're saying, and I actually do agree. Although I would argue though that no hand to hand is actually inherently an offensive art, because at least all the ones I've sat in on (I"ll admit not to have had the chance to see Krav being taught) teach to fight as a last resort, that if you can avoid the conflict all the better. I also know a lot of Krav moves are meant to kill or seriously harm your opponent, and one strike is the difference between self-defense and assault/manslaughter legally. However, personally, I think it has the most effective techniques for self defense, and I know there are places that teach it to that effect rather than the traditional aspect.

To quote the website of the place that teaches around here

Krav Maga is the official self defense system of the Israeli Defense Forces, and has been taught to hundreds of law enforcement agencies and thousands of civilians in the United States.

Krav Maga is a simple, effective self defense system that emphasizes instinctive movements, practical techniques, and realistic training scenarios.

[Proven_Paradox]

While it does play on some flexibility, it also depends greatly on the instructor. Like I mentioned before, my instructor was a little more focused on useful stuff, and while we did work on stuff higher kicks that required some flexibility, a lot of the class focused on stuff we'd actually use in a fight if need be. Of course, most of the people out there teaching are more into the showy stuff, so I'm not going to try and push it...Krav is undoubtedly better for self defense, and more importantly, you show interest in it.Something that varies so much by instructor seems like a bad idea to me... Though getting a good instructor in Taekwon could be nice too. Still, I think there are other options that interest me more.
there is no way your going to find an inflexible grappling martial art.Apparently I have the wrong idea of what a grappling art is then. Could you explain why this is the case?
Systema. Great martial art if you find a good teacher, lots of breathing exercises and such. Much fun.

There's grappling and striking, but most of the grappling is neck cranks, depending on your teacher - mine was first a Jujitsu guy, so he teaches a lot of everything, but Systema's about efficiency and streetfighting, so little actual Jujitsu is shown.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twBJbor12P0Hmm... This thread's the first time I've heard of Systema, but it seems interesting. I'll look up some more information on it when I actually start looking for a teacher.
Good grief. :smalleek: You want to play to your strengths? Go BOXING.

You're a freaking mountain, you've got impressive leg strength, good enough reflexes and mobility to play DDR, and you want to hit things. That screams boxing.

With your size attributes, you definitely want to do stand-up fighting and dominate and stay away from groundfighting where lightweights have the advantage.

Having encountered a LOT of martial arts styles, including the Marine Corps' MCMAP program, I can say with a bit of authority that it doesn't matter how good you are or what style you use, it's *hard* to beat a large, standup fighter who doesn't want to go down and knows how to throw a punch. At least, without weapons it is. With weapons thrown in, that changes the equation quite a bit.

Go boxing. Then if you feel like branching out and using your legs or learning wrestling/grappling moves, you've got a base to hang all your other skills on. You might find it hard to come up with someone willing to go into the ring with you, :smallwink: but there will be plenty of people out there willing to train you.Heh, first off, the "you're a freaking mountain" paragraph made me grin. Thanks for that.

As for the rest, my problem with boxing is that it focuses entirely on punches. I think I said before that my first instinct is to go in shoulder first. By boxing's rules (as I understand them) that's illegal. The fact that it seems to be more of a sport-based style rather than self-defense oriented has me less inclined to go that route as well.

Again, though, I've been under the impression that size is an advantage in ground-fighting. Why exactly do lightweights have an advantage there? If a striking style would more likely play to my strengths, I'd be more inclined to go that way, but I'm not seeing the connection.
Judging by your responses, I'd recommend boxing or Brazilian Jiu-jutsu. Krav Maga is a good one if you want to hurt people. You say you're going for self-defense - that's not the KM mindset. It's far more...proactive.

thubby, however, speaks with much truth. You wanna grapple, you need to get somewhat flexible. Not as much as a kicking art, granted, but you'll find that the more you flex, the more "give" you'll have before you have to tap out, which gives you more time to find a counter.Hm. This clears up my confusion on the grappling issue somewhat. Still, is it not true that greater mass would result in being better able to make a grapple happen on your terms, and enable to produce greater force within the hold? Or am I just completely wrong about this?


No, no. It's a different mindset on the part of the fighter. A fighter who trains with the idea of learning self-defense fights with an eye toward "If he does this, then I do that." Krav Maga is all about "he might to that, so I need to do that to him first."

Krav is a battlefield art, for military and irregular personnel in a setting where, if they don't wear your colors, they're a viable target. It is not a civilian defense art. It's a subtle but very, VERY important difference, especially if you're ever called upon to implement it, and during the resultant legal fallout.

You can always choose not implement it in such a way once you've learned it, but KM teaches an offensive mindset. The OP is asking for an art for self-defense. The spirit - the very soul - of the art isn't in line with what the OP is asking for.

*grr*

I'm trying to get the point across, and my vocabulary is coming up short. It's a very subtle difference, and hard to articulate.I see what you're getting at there, but I also understand that there are times where the best defense is a good offense. From what I'm gathering from the others who've recommended Krav, that's the mindset the style teaches, and I'm open to that. At the same time, though, I'm not set on it--hence I'm not really set on a specific style.
Combat Juijitsu or Aikido would probably be beneficial. Kenjutsu also improves your footwork quite a bit... I've had plenty of complaints from teachers about other aspects of my training, but thanks to Kenjutsu I've never been sassed about my legwork.

Hrm, someone mentioned Boxing, which is probably good for conditioning and the like. Just don't get too wrapped up in it, or you'll start to forget that people can kick you in retaliation.

Wing Chun is also a lot of fun. Not especially focused on the big and burly types, though added reach and muscle certainly don't hurt.I'll look all of those up sometime. The various eastern style martial arts with names I'm not certain how to pronounce end up running together in my mind though, heh.
I'd go for something in the Ju-jitsu line then. Could be traditional Japanese, Brazilian, or whatever else you find a good teacher for; the only thing in that way I've tried is Judo (which is more about sport-sparring than self-defense, but is good fun). Japanese ju-jitsu would be a mixture of throws, grappling, and striking; Judo all about throw and grappling with the emphasis on throws, and Brazilian Ju-jitsu very much emphasises grappling, with lots of groundwork, and more of a self-defense application than Judo. But I also see the point of an earlier poster about your weight being very good for boxing - probably your next point of call if grappling doesn't interest you (also, although short arms aren't particularly good for either, they're probably more usable in Boxing; in either way, short arms means you've less reach, but in grappling arts you've also got less leverage, whereas in striking arts you've got more speed).And the grappling issue is becoming clearer, and I'm starting to think more towards a striking style... But at the same time boxing still has the problem of being fist-focused.
As far as I know, if you're looking for fitness in martial arts, you're being a bit too picky. (I think) The martial arts I've been exposed to have been mostly explosive, and energy-consuming. They build up your muscle, but not your fitness. Then again, I know of only a few of them.

From reading about you, I would say Judo perhaps. It's for bigger people, it's not exactly terribly deathly, i.e. a bit light-hearted and it definetily focuses on your mass rather than agility. Someone in my school who does it can't exactly be said to be nimble but he's one of the strongest there is. Judo isn't so much self-defense though, but look into it if you're at all interested.Eh, this is the kind of thing where I think it's okay to be picky. I don't want to invest in something that I'm not going to like, after all.

Anyway, apparently I gave the wrong impression earlier. Building muscle and strength is exactly what I'm looking for, which makes a martial art seem that much more appealing to me.

I'll look into Judo. Something with a good deal of self-defense applications would be preferable though.

[Spiryt]

This clears up my confusion on the grappling issue somewhat. Still, is it not true that greater mass would result in being better able to make a grapple happen on your terms, and enable to produce greater force within the hold? Or am I just completely wrong about this?


You're probably right, size is usually advantage, but certainly more in punching.

As long as you're good and strong, you can produce great force in hold or locks even if you're not so big. Especially that on the ground there's not so possible to move violently whole body to make use of it's mass. Not to mention that in many locks et cetera great force isn't really so important. Again, mass certainly helps, but...

And if you're making halfway good strike, with putting at least a bit of body mass behind your punch (or other part of course), mass means a lot.
If somebody weights 120 pounds, he really won't be able to punch as hard as you, unless he's really, really quick, agile and explosive (is it the good word in english?) - in one word much, much better than you.

Simply, kinetic energy is square velocity x mass/2, momentum is vel. x mass, and so on. And even if someone small is able to strike quicker than big guy, he won't cover the difference in mass. That's why big mass is definite advantage in striking.

[First Speaker]

Go for bartitsu:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9e/Copy_of_Montage.jpg

[Silence]

My experiences include Tea-kwan-do (I think I spelled it wrong) and Brazillian Ju-Jitsu. Ju-Jutsi allows you to dominate in any grappling situation, while Tea-kwan-do is the dominant form of standing martial arts.

Also, Tea-Kwan-Leap. (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ou-yprCsHS0)


They'll be all like "HEYA!" and you'll be like "BOOT TO THE HEAD!" Owned.

[Dallas-Dakota]

It´s Tae-kwan-do I think. Not tea-kwan-do me thinks.:smallwink:

[reorith]

It´s Tae-kwan-do I think. Not tea-kwan-do me thinks.:smallwink:

your spelling is no match for the way of the kettle. prepare yourself for defeat by my major outer steeping!

[Fri]

Go for bartitsu:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9e/Copy_of_Montage.jpg

Ah, bartitsu. It's good enough for Sherlock Holmes, so why do you need something else?

Well, seriously, I rather like Aikido. But it's more for self defence.

[TSGames]

No, no. It's a different mindset on the part of the fighter. A fighter who trains with the idea of learning self-defense fights with an eye toward "If he does this, then I do that." Krav Maga is all about "he might to that, so I need to do that to him first."

Krav is a battlefield art, for military and irregular personnel in a setting where, if they don't wear your colors, they're a viable target. It is not a civilian defense art. It's a subtle but very, VERY important difference, especially if you're ever called upon to implement it, and during the resultant legal fallout.

You can always choose not implement it in such a way once you've learned it, but KM teaches an offensive mindset. The OP is asking for an art for self-defense. The spirit - the very soul - of the art isn't in line with what the OP is asking for.

*grr*

I'm trying to get the point across, and my vocabulary is coming up short. It's a very subtle difference, and hard to articulate.
Most of what you said is right, but I disagree on the conclusion that Krav Maga is offensive orientated.

Krav Maga is a fighting style that was developed to fight enemies prepared to kill(the Nazis [seriously]), and evolved to fight new age threats(terrorists) that don't wear uniforms, conceal weapons, and could attack at any point. In short, it is a style that does, and has always assumed that you will die if you lose the fight.

Given that you are fighting for your life, how does it make any sense to allow an enemy to have the first move? Seriously, I can't think of a single reason why you would *wait* or allow someone to pull a knife or a gun on you. You are correct that is primarily for the military, and dangerous situations that most civilians should never have to cope with(seriously, a bar fight or mugging can't compare to a single day policing Israel).

However, no matter what you practice, giving your opponent the first move is a good way to get yourself killed or lose the fight.

[Swordguy]

Most of what you said is right, but I disagree on the conclusion that Krav Maga is offensive orientated.

<snipped for truthiness>

However, no matter what you practice, giving your opponent the first move is a good way to get yourself killed or lose the fight.

And all that is EXACTLY why its dangerous for a civilian to be employing it. Legally, you're required to wait until the other guy makes the first move, draws a knife, or draws a gun. Otherwise, you are at fault, and make no bones about it, the justice system likes to come down hard on people who were trying to defend themselves and got a little too offensive about it or used an inappropriate level of force.

There IS no "inappropriate level of force" in Krav. There is in Real Life.

That's why I specifically don't recommend Krav to someone looking for self-defense. It's undeniably effective - but it's a legal ticking time bomb. Having used martial arts in a real self-defense situation, the prosecutor specifically tried to insinuate that by taking a martial art of any sort, I was a) "spoiling for a fight, and therefore at fault", and b) "should have been able to disarm or incapacitate a knife-wielding man 50 lbs bigger and 8" taller than me without any damage to him. Because I'm trained, I obviously chose not to do so, therefore I used an inappropriate level of force, therefore I was at fault."

That was with aikido, which is about the most "defensive" martial art in existence. Imagine what a prosecutor'd be able to say about somebody who studies a martial art explicitly dedicated to permenantly incapacitating a potential threat preemptively to the threat existing.

it may be better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6, but you're a fool if you don't take both contingencies into account.

My advice to the OP is try several dojos or studios, and see what you like best. Then make a choice - it may even be Krav. Don't let some random guy on "teh intarwebs" stop you if you think you'd enjoy it, for certain.

[Starshade]

I recommend looking for a good club, with a quality instructor. I think the quality is important to get something out of training there. Then there is what do you want to do:

- Learn to punch, or kick?

- Trow people around?

- How acrobatic or flexible do you want to train towards being?

[Ethrael]

Anyway, apparently I gave the wrong impression earlier. Building muscle and strength is exactly what I'm looking for, which makes a martial art seem that much more appealing to me.

I'll look into Judo. Something with a good deal of self-defense applications would be preferable though.

It might not be ideal, but then again, after you've learned a bit you adapt it to yourself a bit, making it a bit more unique methinks.

I think someone mentioned Aikido and I just remembered it as the one that might suit you better. It has nothing based on nimbleness and it's all self-defence. You might want to look into that too.

[WychWeird]

As previously stated by bosssmiley, I'd recommend Ninjutsu as well and it isn't just weapon techniques - there's a full range of unarmed combat which includes throws, locks, grapples, punches and kicks which are equally effective against armed opponents. This MA is not really suited for competition sports so if you're looking to compete I'd recommend one of the others.

[phoenixcire]

I'll look all of those up sometime. The various eastern style martial arts with names I'm not certain how to pronounce end up running together in my mind though, heh.

Well in short, Akido is what Steven Seagal uses. It's based in using your opponents force against them. Very effective.

If all else fails, look into Jeet Kune Do. It's the style that Bruce Lee devised and is the basis of the whole MMA craze.

[Jack Squat]

And all that is EXACTLY why its dangerous for a civilian to be employing it. Legally, you're required to wait until the other guy makes the first move, draws a knife, or draws a gun. Otherwise, you are at fault, and make no bones about it, the justice system likes to come down hard on people who were trying to defend themselves and got a little too offensive about it or used an inappropriate level of force.

There IS no "inappropriate level of force" in Krav. There is in Real Life.

Making the first move (in my book) isn't drawing a weapon, it's using it. They're not a threat because they say they're going to mess you up, they are if they have the means and intent to. The way you make it sound, Krav teaches you to attack potential threats, which just doesn't make sense. Yes, you could get in some legal trouble for "excessive use of force", but depending on where you are, that could just be defending yourself.



My advice to the OP is try several dojos or studios, and see what you like best. Then make a choice - it may even be Krav. Don't let some random guy on "teh intarwebs" stop you if you think you'd enjoy it, for certain.

I definitely second this. A lot of areas will give you the first lesson (or week) free, and if they don't, they'll certainly let you sit in. Go with whatever suits you, regardless of style.

[paddyfool]

My advice to the OP is try several dojos or studios, and see what you like best. Then make a choice - it may even be Krav. Don't let some random guy on "teh intarwebs" stop you if you think you'd enjoy it, for certain.

I definitely second this. A lot of areas will give you the first lesson (or week) free, and if they don't, they'll certainly let you sit in. Go with whatever suits you, regardless of style.

Absolutely. (See my earlier coment about shopping around).

Overall, given that you say you'd feel most comfortable with overpowering someone in a grappling situation, I'd say that your plan of starting with Judo is a very good one. Ju-jitsu and Aikido would also be good choices for you, if you can't find a Judo class you enjoy. (And don't go thinking that because Aikido is defensive, it isn't effective - it's actually what a lot of what's taught to the police here in the UK is based on).

Your ultimate aim should be to find a class with a really good teacher (above all else), a mix of standards (so that you can learn by practicing with those who really know what they're doing as well as having other beginners around) and a good sense of cameraderie. Good luck!