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String
2008-10-09, 04:42 PM
The Paragon Path that started it all
Well, more Dynasty Warriors than RoTK, but meh. Honestly, 4E can emulate Dynasty Warriors pretty damn well already, and I don't have the DMG so I don't know exactly how the skill challenges work so I can't make a comment on how it does with RoTK which would obviously be a very RP/Diplomacy heavy game. Whatever. Paragon Paths. Here we go.

Tiger General
"For the Glory of Shu, and to Restore the Han!"

Prerequisite: Fighter or Warlord Class, Proficient with any polearm or spear

Your valor in the name of the Shu Han has driven you to increase your prowess and become one of the legendary Tiger Generals. Whether you fight with spear, halberd or glaive, you strike fear into the hearts of your enemy, and are a nigh-unstoppable force on the battlefield.

Tiger General Path Features

General's Action (11th Level): When you spend an action point to take an extra action, every ally within 3 squares gains an extra action. If they do not use this action before the end of their next turn, they lose it.
Polearm Mastery (11th level):Whenever you push, pull or slide an enemy, you can add 1 to the number of squares you move the enemy, but only if you are wielding a Polearm or Spear.
Virtue and Brotherhood (16th level): You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls with any polearm for every bloodied ally you can see, and a +3 for every unconscious one.

Tiger General Exploits

Stallion Fury Strike[Tab][Tab]Tiger General Attack 11
You plunge your weapon into the ground and hoist yourself into the air before pulling it out and lashing out at your foes.
Encounter* Martial, Weapon
Standard Action [tab][tab] Close Burst 1
Target: Each enemy in burst you can see
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 3[W]+strength modifier and the targets are pushed 2 squares.
Miss: Targets take no damage and are pushed 1 square.
Special: If you are wielding a reach weapon, the range of this power is a Close Burst 2.

Chang Ban Gambit [tab][tab] Tiger General Utility 12
You whirl your blade about and dare your enemies to approach.
Encounter* Martial, Fear
Standard Action [tab][tab] Close blast 5
Target: Each enemy in blast that can see you
Attack: Wisdom vs Will
Hit: Each target moves its speed + your Charisma modifier away from you. The fleeing target avoids unsafe squares and difficult terrain if it can. This movement provokes oppurtunity attacks.

Blue Dragon Roar [tab][tab] Tiger General Attack 20
You swing your blade with great force, and send your enemies flyingDaily * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action [tab][tab] Close burst 1
Primary target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Strength vs AC
Hit: 2[W] + Strength Modifier damage, and make a secondary attack.
Miss:No secondary attack
Secondary Target: Each enemy struck by primary attack
Secondary Attack: Strength vs AC
Hit: 1[W] + Strength Modifier damage, and make a tertiary attack
Miss: No tertiary attack
Tertiary Target: Each enemy struck by secondary attack
Tertiary Attack: Strength vs AC
Hit: 1[W] + Strength Modifier damage, and the targets are pushed 4 squares and knocked prone.
Miss: The enemy is not knocked prone or pushed.
Special: If you wield a polearm or spear, the range of this attack is Close burst 2

My most recent ramblings about Eladrin, Elves, Dwarves and Liang
So, at first, my idea was "three warring factions, on a section of a continent with mountains to the north and west, and sea to the east and south." I eventually flipped it mostly, because I'm current applying to a game with a nation with mountains to the N and W and sea to the E and S. I named the land Liang, and gave it the moniker, "The Guarded Land". At this point, I thought about a couple of the major factions.

My first idea was a that "Elves as Slaves" was not what I wanted. however, the idea of Elves as "Lesser Eladrin" was interesting to me, and so, going with the oriental feeling I decided that elves are by and large members of the Eladrin kingdom/empire/whatever. They would be the lower-caste, the rank and file soldiers, the craftsmen and the farmers. The Eladrin would be, conversely, the merchants, the Captains, the Generals, and the courtesans. The Elves (and the eladrin) would be raised and bred believing that the Eladrin are closer to divinity, the Eladrin High-King being a diety in the eyes of the Elves and Eladrin (and any Half-elves who live here). Yes, elves can distinguish themselves, but usually only in war and battle, not through politics, where there is just too much prejudice and intrigue to let them get very far. The Eladrin Kingdom would make up the fertile mid-to-south plains and have a lot of farmland and open land, their larger cities being few and far between.

After this, I started with the idea of a dwarven empire led by a "Tricky Dwarf", I came up with this.

Another major faction would be Pan Guo, the Stone Empire. This kingdom of Dwarven clans and their territories takes up the majority of the northern Liang, including Guan's Shield (the mountain range to the north, that are nearly impassable. Or at least, so common belief holds). They are led in name by the Emperor Mingong, who spends most of his time in his enormous, towering palace carved into the side of a mountainside. The real power within Pan Guo however is Advisor Terac, who directs the military and subverts power to advance his own agenda. A lot of oppurtunity for "Advisor siezes power" campaigns here. Pan Guo has a lot more cities than the Eladrin, and a larger army, but are highly reliant on trade with the Human/half-elf kingdom for produce and whatnot, since they dont have the most fertile lands, and are almost constantly at war with the Eladrin empire.

I dont have many ideas for the Human/half-elf faction, or where to put Halflings. I'm toying with the idea of the halflings having their own major power in the world, and not being nomads. I'm unsure, though.Also, Originally my idea was "There was a big empire. It fell, giving rise to these kingdoms." That works. Thats a tried and true method, and had historical basis. But I was thinking that maybe the 'catalyst' thing here was a new thing: The invasion from the north of barbarian tribes of orcs and monstrous humanoids, etc. The Tieflings and Dragonborn have no place within the world right now, but I'm unsure of how to remedy that.

Liang, The Guarded Land

Do you fight for Family, Virtue or Power?

The Guarded Land is a work-in-progress 4E Campaign World in a vaguely first to second century asian-style campaign. The setting is being designed for Heroic Tier heroes, will hopefully be able to accomodate Paragon Tier heroes, and will not be focused on accomodating Epic Tier heroes. The setting is in the fledgling stages, so any comments on anything is welcome. I will keep my ramblings in this thread until I feel I have enough to justify making it it's own thread that I can organize everything in, so bear with me, please.

AstralFire
2008-10-09, 04:49 PM
Ooh, you would have to make your homebrew in both a system AND fluff I know nothing about. That's going to make my promise of help painful...

String
2008-10-09, 04:58 PM
Ha. Lemme scrounge up some linkage, if you'd really like.

Dynasty Warriors' Wiki article (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynasty_Warriors)
Romance of the Three Kingdoms games Wiki Article. (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_of_the_Three_Kingdoms_(video_game))
Romance of the Three Kingdoms Novel Wiki Article. (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_of_the_Three_Kingdoms)

I chose 4E mostly because it's already very much representive of Dynasty warriors play. Argue about 4e's hack-n-slash or not all you want, Dynasty Warriors is damned easy to play using 4e, and the game itself is a button masher.

AstralFire
2008-10-09, 05:02 PM
I don't have any issue with 4E, just don't know it is all. I'll look that stuff over, though there's not much fluff to comb through since that's mechanics.

String
2008-10-09, 05:11 PM
True...you know... Hm.. Hell, Barbarian would probably fit the Tiger General..or maybe..Gr..well, I got two more Paragon Paths to make, anyway.

Lappy9000
2008-10-09, 06:44 PM
You'll definitely want to use some mass battle rules, since that's a big element to the games. In D&D, slicing through tons of weaker enemies isn't usually as fun as it sounds. You could definitely make it work, though.

KKL
2008-10-09, 07:01 PM
o hi Zhang Fei, glad to see you've been homebrewed.

I like it. I dunno about the balance at all, but I like it.

PS: Lu Bu as an Epic Destiny. Because we all love exaggerating how much of a badas he is.

String
2008-10-09, 07:07 PM
Hey, this is ...generic. We have Ma Chao, Zhang Fei AND Guan yu represented here.

I suppose some "Warrior of Dynasties" epic path...eh.

Arbitrarity
2008-10-09, 08:07 PM
20'th level powers are always dailies. That's a nice power, feels like the right power level for a daily.

The 12'th level power isn't a utility. Utility never involves an attack roll.

Can I compare to Battle Captain, best warlord PP?


General's Action (11th Level): When you spend an action point to take an extra action, every ally within 3 squares may make one basic attack as a free action.
vs
+1 to allied attack rolls when you use an AP.

Polearm Mastery (11th level):Whenever you push, pull or slide an enemy, you can add 1 to the number of squares you move the enemy, but only if you are wielding a Polearm or Spear.
vs +2 to hit when you win initiative


Virtue and Brotherhood (16th level): You gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls with any polearm for every bloodied ally you can see.
vs +1 (or +INT) to speed and attack rolls for 1 turn to a target healed by inspiring word.

Looks pretty fair. Battle captain has larger AOE, and is a bit more team oriented.


Stallion Fury StrikeTiger General Attack 11
You plunge your weapon into the ground and hoist yourself into the air before pulling it out and lashing out at your foes.
Encounter* Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Close Burst 1
Target: Each enemy in burst you can see
Attack: Strength + 2 vs. AC
Hit: 3[W] and the targets are pushed 2 squares.
Miss: Targets take no damage and are pushed 1 square.
Special: If you are wielding a reach weapon, the range of this power is a Close Burst 2.

vs single target str vs reflex, 1W+str, push a number of squares equal to INT modifier, secondary strength vs fort (adjacent to you and enemy), 2d6 + str push 1 square.

I think Stallion Fury wins by a longshot. More targets, MUCH more damage (though I guess there is no +str, though that's only 5-6'ish damage, vs the 2W), about the same accuracy, similar push, and potentially larger AOE.
Reduce the damage to 2 or 1W, and maybe cut the bonus to hit.



Chang Ban Gambit [tab][tab] Tiger General Utility 12
You whirl your blade about and dare your enemies to approach.
Encounter* Martial, Fear
Standard Action [tab][tab] Close blast 5
Target: Each enemy in blast that can see you
Attack: Wisdom vs Will
Hit: Each target moves its speed + your Charisma modifier away from you. The fleeing target avoids unsafe squares and difficult terrain if it can. This movement provokes oppurtunity attacks.
This isn't exactly a utility power. It's an attack power, a Close Blast 5 Cause Fear clone. It has no implements, no stat synergy, and will therefore miss. This power needs a significant change. Try something like Own the Battlefield, but more limited.


Blue Dragon Roar [tab][tab] Tiger General Attack 20
You swing your blade with great force, and send your enemies flyingEncounter * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action [tab][tab] Close burst 1
Primary target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Strength vs AC
Hit: 3[W] + Strength Modifier damage, and make a secondary attack.
Miss: Half damage, no secondary attack
Secondary Target: Each enemy struck by primary attack
Secondary Attack: Strength +2 vs AC
Hit: 2[W] + Strength Modifier damage, and make a tertiary attack
Miss: Half damage, no tertiary attack
Tertiary Target: Each enemy struck by secondary attack
Tertiary Attack: Strength +4 vs AC
Hit: 1[W] +Strength Modifier damage, and the targets are pushed 4 squares and knocked prone.
Miss: half-damage and the enemy is not knocked prone or pushed.
Special: If you wield a polearm or spear, the range of this attack is Close burst 2

Compared to the same targets, but 1 attack of 2[w] + str, knock prone or push 1 square. This power has likely more AOE, way more damage potential, and has severe effect if every hit lands. Even if only a few hits land, this power has a larger AOE and more damage.

I think the "reach weapon increases burst radius" needs to go, but with power nerfs, it's probably OK.

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-09, 09:13 PM
My immediate thoughts are Overpowered.
The encounter deals 3[W] Close Burst 2 at level 11? I don't think that any level 11 encounter power in any of the current 4e books matches that remotely. And the prereq classes are Leader or Defender, while this attack would make more sense on a striker or melee controller.
The Utility, as has already been mentioned, is not a utility at all, but an attack.
The Daily is really high damage, really good to hit, good area and has some nice secondary effects. I would drop the range increase (what is the likelyhood you'll reach over enemies while doing a polearm sweep?) and the secondary and tetiary attack bonuses, and then I think it would be better, if not perfect.

Action Point Feature: Every nearby ally gets a free basic attack? As much as I would love to have this, it is most certainly overpowered. Maybe one ally gets an action they must spend on their next turn?
The other features look fine enough, although I might reduce the level 16 one to +1 for every bloodied ally and +3 for every unconcious one or somesuch.

I'm not familiar with much of the source material, so no comment on fluff, but it looks like all the attacks match the theme.

String
2008-10-09, 09:21 PM
20'th level powers are always dailies. That's a nice power, feels like the right power level for a daily.

Thats a typo, thanks for catching it.


The 12'th level power isn't a utility. Utility never involves an attack roll.


Hm..I'm stumped then. Sorry, my grasp on 4e is admittedly not the greatest.


Can I compare to Battle Captain, best warlord PP?


Yes. :smallbiggrin: Yes you may.


I think Stallion Fury wins by a longshot. More targets, MUCH more damage (though I guess there is no +str, though that's only 5-6'ish damage, vs the 2W), about the same accuracy, similar push, and potentially larger AOE.
Reduce the damage to 2 or 1W, and maybe cut the bonus to hit.

Yeah, that sound fair.



This isn't exactly a utility power. It's an attack power, a Close Blast 5 Cause Fear clone. It has no implements, no stat synergy, and will therefore miss. This power needs a significant change. Try something like Own the Battlefield, but more limited.

I'll look it up. Thanks.



Compared to the same targets, but 1 attack of 2[w] + str, knock prone or push 1 square. This power has likely more AOE, way more damage potential, and has severe effect if every hit lands. Even if only a few hits land, this power has a larger AOE and more damage.

I think the "reach weapon increases burst radius" needs to go, but with power nerfs, it's probably OK.

How would lowering the first attack to 2[w]+Str, and the last two to 1[w]+str?

The reach weapon increasing burst radius thing is mostly because I felt like "it's only making it the weapon's range anyway. It's any target that you could normally hit, PLUS the adjacent targets." Hell, I'd make it so that it ONLY effects targets 10 feet away if I could figure out a way to model that.


--

@ Shadow elf: Burst 2 hits the adjacents AND the 'reach' targets.
Also: Thanks for the idea on the last feature and the first. i'll change them.

String
2008-10-09, 09:37 PM
For the new utility, how is

Chang Ban Gambit (tiger general utility 12)
fluff yadda yadda. Same thing

Daily * Martial, fear
Standard action Close Blast 5
Target: Each enemy in blast you can see
Effect: You push each target a number of squares equal to 5+ your Intelligence modifier.

Mr.Pagoda
2008-10-09, 09:49 PM
Oo finally us spear guys are trying to make somethin.
hopefully my DM will allow me to use this.
May not cus im a barbarian but i can convince him since he and i are big Dynasty Warriors.

Ma Chao for the win!

String
2008-10-09, 09:52 PM
Hmm..A barbarian paragon path from DW...hm..thats a nice idea..maybe after I figure out Wu and Wei's Paragon paths...Any ideas?

Mr.Pagoda
2008-10-09, 10:04 PM
dunno i was hopin you would have some. Barbarian paragons and fighter paragons will probably be pretty similar.

String
2008-10-10, 09:48 PM
After mulling it over for a few days and realizing i'm still really interested in it, I was wondering how much interest there would be for a first-to-second century asian-style Campaign setting? Or maybe Warring States era-esque? Major inspirations being (obviously) Romance of the Three Kingdoms and movies like Hero, Forbidden Kingdom, kurosawa films, the dynasty and samurai warriors games, etc...

AstralFire
2008-10-10, 09:50 PM
After mulling it over for a few days and realizing i'm still really interested in it, I was wondering how much interest there would be for a first-to-second century asian-style Campaign setting? Or maybe Warring States era-esque? Major inspirations being (obviously) Romance of the Three Kingdoms and movies like Hero, Forbidden Kingdom, kurosawa films, the dynasty and samurai warriors games, etc...

Would the focus be realistic martial, over the top martial, or sword and sorcery?

String
2008-10-10, 09:53 PM
Define "realistic martial". I could see PCs still being killing machines by mid-level, and my first thoughts were for 4e, so you have the over-the-topness inherent there, but I was also considering maybe eliminating the Arcane and divine-source classes and replacing them with others, or perhaps even reflavoring or adding classes...granted, this is easier in 3.5 (at least for me, since I know a bit more about 3.5) but 3.5 already has an oriental adventures campaign setting...

Also, Damn that was quick..


EDIT: All this is subject to change, since I'm not great at self-motivation and would definetly welcome outside input on fluff and/or crunch. Fluff is more important to me, though. Just saying.

AstralFire
2008-10-10, 10:01 PM
Define "realistic martial".

Replace 'realistic martial' with Heroic tier, and over-the-top with Paragon and Epic.


EDIT: All this is subject to change, since I'm not great at self-motivation and would definetly welcome outside input on fluff and/or crunch. Fluff is more important to me, though. Just saying.

Fluff's all I can deliver on 4E anyway. :D

String
2008-10-10, 10:12 PM
Ah. Well, hmm..upon thinking of it, I suppose that heroic tier would make up a great deal (I would say about 75 percent, give or take ten) of the adventuring and npcs and etc...what do you think?

AstralFire
2008-10-10, 10:17 PM
Ah. Well, hmm..upon thinking of it, I suppose that heroic tier would make up a great deal (I would say about 75 percent, give or take ten) of the adventuring and npcs and etc...what do you think?

I think it's possible, out of what I recall of 4E's mechanics. There should be enough variety to make a game out of expanded Rogue, Ranger, Fighter, Warlord and the new Barbarian. I'll help out when I can.

String
2008-10-10, 10:23 PM
Cool...I guess I'll get to work on the basic setting. Hmm..Where would you suggest starting?

AstralFire
2008-10-11, 09:20 AM
Cool...I guess I'll get to work on the basic setting. Hmm..Where would you suggest starting?

IMO there's two easy ways to start a setting - start writing up the NPCs you think are awesome, or start writing up the conflicts and things to discover. Go with whichever is easier.

String
2008-10-12, 08:33 PM
Well, thinking up conflicts led me to the following process. I'll give a rundown for the purpose of showing my thought process.
-

So, at first, my idea was "three warring factions, on a section of a continent with mountains to the north and west, and sea to the east and south." I eventually flipped it mostly, because I'm current applying to a game with a nation with mountains to the N and W and sea to the E and S. I named the land Liang, and gave it the moniker, "The Guarded Land". At this point, I thought about a couple of the major factions.

My first idea was a that "Elves as Slaves" was not what I wanted. however, the idea of Elves as "Lesser Eladrin" was interesting to me, and so, going with the oriental feeling I decided that elves are by and large members of the Eladrin kingdom/empire/whatever. They would be the lower-caste, the rank and file soldiers, the craftsmen and the farmers. The Eladrin would be, conversely, the merchants, the Captains, the Generals, and the courtesans. The Elves (and the eladrin) would be raised and bred believing that the Eladrin are closer to divinity, the Eladrin High-King being a diety in the eyes of the Elves and Eladrin (and any Half-elves who live here). Yes, elves can distinguish themselves, but usually only in war and battle, not through politics, where there is just too much prejudice and intrigue to let them get very far. The Eladrin Kingdom would make up the fertile mid-to-south plains and have a lot of farmland and open land, their larger cities being few and far between.

After this, I started with the idea of a dwarven empire led by a "Tricky Dwarf", I came up with this.

Another major faction would be Pan Guo, the Stone Empire. This kingdom of Dwarven clans and their territories takes up the majority of the northern Liang, including Guan's Shield (the mountain range to the north, that are nearly impassable. Or at least, so common belief holds). They are led in name by the Emperor Mingong, who spends most of his time in his enormous, towering palace carved into the side of a mountainside. The real power within Pan Guo however is Advisor Terac, who directs the military and subverts power to advance his own agenda. A lot of oppurtunity for "Advisor siezes power" campaigns here. Pan Guo has a lot more cities than the Eladrin, and a larger army, but are highly reliant on trade with the Human/half-elf kingdom for produce and whatnot, since they dont have the most fertile lands, and are almost constantly at war with the Eladrin empire.

I dont have many ideas for the Human/half-elf faction, or where to put Halflings. I'm toying with the idea of the halflings having their own major power in the world, and not being nomads. I'm unsure, though.Also, Originally my idea was "There was a big empire. It fell, giving rise to these kingdoms." That works. Thats a tried and true method, and had historical basis. But I was thinking that maybe the 'catalyst' thing here was a new thing: The invasion from the north of barbarian tribes of orcs and monstrous humanoids, etc. The Tieflings and Dragonborn have no place within the world right now, but I'm unsure of how to remedy that.