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Elidis
2008-10-09, 07:13 PM
Hi there, I was wondering if anyone could possibly help me with my warlock character that I am currently playing with friends of mine and I am fairly new to D&D 3.5. The specific reason I am asking for help is:

All of my friends are 'power-gamers' in a sence and I am stuggling to keep up with them with my warlock. I am looking for infomation on; what realy is the job of the warlock in the group?, detailed infomation on what items I should be looking for to help me do that job, and general infomation.

Currently this is what my character is:

Class: Warlock (4)

Race: Elf

Stats:

10 STR
14 DEX
10 CON
16 INT
10 WIS
17 CHA (+1 from level 4)

Skills:

Intimidate: 7 ranks
Concentration: 7 ranks
Knowledge (Planes): 7 ranks
UMD: 7 ranks
Spellcraft: 7 ranks

Feats:

Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot

Invocations:

Eldritch Spear
Sickening Blast
See the Unseen

Gear:

Chain Shirt
Longsword

Magic Items are extreamly hard to find in our adventure setting, and we are currently in a 'border princes' type area (were the best equiped for miles arround). Are adventure is up to level 24 and I was thinking of going; 20 Warlock / 1 Binder / 3 Hellfire Warlock. Our party consists of a; Human Fighter/Barbarian, Goliath Fighter, Human Sorceress, (some aquatic race) Druid with a big crocadile ;).

If you need more infomation Ill post it. Any help is welcome and I look forward to hearing from you guys soon.

streakster
2008-10-09, 07:17 PM
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=751117

Rei_Jin
2008-10-09, 07:19 PM
If magic items are hard to find in your campaign, you're going to struggle without being an actual caster. There are some buffs you can use on yourself as a Warlock (See the Unseen, Dark Ones Own Luck, Entropic Warding, Spiderwalk, Flee the Scene, Fell Flight, Walk Unseen, etc), but if the other players in your group are selfish with their spells then you will probably have a hard time of it.

As to recommendations, I'd work out what kind of Warlock you want to be (Glaivelock, Craftlock, etc) and let us know. From there we'll be better able to help.

Stupendous_Man
2008-10-09, 07:32 PM
http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=16022

Eldariel
2008-10-09, 07:35 PM
Your role? Archery and ranged support. If you choose "Eldritch Glaive"-invocation from Dragon Magic, you'll also be very competent in melee once you gain iteratives (much later, that is - around level 9 or so, or at whatever point you can acquire a Wand of Divine Might, whichever comes first).

On those levels, I strongly suggest the "Baleful Utterance"-invocation and rather carefree application of it on whichever targets you consider breakable. The more creative you get and the better you choose the battlefield, the more efficient it is. On those levels, the basic uses like breaking humanoid opponents' nonmagical equipment tend to be plenty, but there's more to it than that (especially if you've got the chance to prepare the battlefield). You have your natural Detect Magic to determine what's magical and what isn't.

Eldritch Spear and See the Unseen are definitely great invocations, although See the Unseen gains more value later. I'd replace See the Unseen with Baleful Utterance for now and work from there. Go back to See the Unseen once your first level invocations have run out their usefulness and invisibility becomes more of a relevant matter.


One last Least Invocation I really like it Summon Swarm. Deals constant damage, you can get a bunch of them and they disrupt opponents' spellcasting and other potentially annoying things. Once you get to higher levels, Fell Flight is the most important Lesser Invocation to learn - you'll suddenly be able to ignore most challenges, be nearly untouchable and still be able to rain fiery death upon your opponents.

With your Charisma, I'd focus on save-providing Invocations; this allows you to act as a solid debuffer. Also, get Gauntlets of Eldritch Energy [Magic Item Compendium] and Chasuble of Fell Power ASAP - especially Chasuble and its infinite uses are very valuable. Lesser Chasuble costs 8000, Gauntlets cost 5000 and greater Chasuble costs 18000, but they're all worth it once you can spare the money.


Remember though that a Warlock is no power bomb - it's a very decent class, but none of its abilities are over-the-top and it'll never really take over the whole show. If the others are playing straight casters and making optimal use of them, it's very possible that you'll feel left behind. Still, canny application of Baleful Utterance does a lot on low levels, so I'd go with that. Later you'll make an excellent crafter, and don't forget to max out your Use Magic Device and...get some Magic Devices to use (Wands mostly, some Eternal Wands perhaps).

Elidis
2008-10-09, 09:06 PM
http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=16022

I like some of the Magic Item ideas here, though there is a flaw in the feats since I know 100% that strongheart vest doesnt work against the con damage taken from using the hellfire blast and shield abbility since the con damage is not and attack and the belt only reduces stat damage from an attack, its on the errata if you want to check ;). So it might need a switch of feats and class levels.

Elidis
2008-10-09, 09:13 PM
If magic items are hard to find in your campaign, you're going to struggle without being an actual caster. There are some buffs you can use on yourself as a Warlock (See the Unseen, Dark Ones Own Luck, Entropic Warding, Spiderwalk, Flee the Scene, Fell Flight, Walk Unseen, etc), but if the other players in your group are selfish with their spells then you will probably have a hard time of it.

As to recommendations, I'd work out what kind of Warlock you want to be (Glaivelock, Craftlock, etc) and let us know. From there we'll be better able to help.

Im looking to maximise my damage output, I a big fan of magic and I was going to play a sorcerer but that was already being played in our group and I dont like the idea of preparing spells, so I went with the warlock for spell casting. The Eldritch Glaive Warlock looks kinda cool but I like to sit back and fry my enemy, though I like the idea of a combat lock, the only issue is that I would need to get Proficiancy with Medium armour and the feat that lets you have no arcane spell failure in medium armor. I was told you cannot wear mithril medium armor unless you have the feat to use medium armor, but I would like the RAW on that. Crafting could be quite costly in exp wise for me, and I would start to fall behind even more in my group, though the items would be a great benifit, only issue is we are not staying in one location for long enough to craft the items I would need (I think) and by then I should have enough gold for my main items for my warlock.

Elidis
2008-10-09, 09:22 PM
To Eldariel:

That was some good infomation there thank you. Where can I find infomation on wands and eternal wands (book wise)? Only issue with taking the 'Shatter' invocation is that we have not encountered anything that uses equipment. So far its been Animated objects, Formians, Hydras, and mainly monsters. Issue with the Eldritch Golves is that its only one element? and which element would I choose?

Some extra questions:

Any Idea on decent warlock feats?
Can I wear mirthil medium armour without medium armour feat? if I can, can I have the RAW for it please? Also does it count as medium armour for ASF?

Xeticus
2008-10-09, 09:22 PM
Why the level of binder? I don't see what you gain from that. Having played a warlock personally I would suggest that you really can't afford to lose any caster levels. Especially in a powergaming group. You only have so many invocations. You need as many of them as you can get.

More about invocations. Baleful Utterance is a great invocation. Eldritch Glaive is awesome and Spiderwalk is great. Another one that I love personally is All Around Eyes from complete mage. +6 to spot and search and comprehend languages on touch. I found that one to be very useful.

For later on Walk Unseen can't be beat. The ability to turn invisible pretty much at will is insanely good. Pair that with the quicken spell like ability feat and you can turn invisible as a swift action 3x a day. Bam! Shoot someone in the face with your eldritch blast, turn invisible as a swift action and then move to another hex.

Just a couple of suggestions. Anyway have fun.

Stupendous_Man
2008-10-09, 09:24 PM
Strongheart Vest works. It reduces ability damage by one. This would apply to the Hellfire Warlock's ability.

Elidis
2008-10-09, 09:29 PM
Strongheart Vest works. It reduces ability damage by one. This would apply to the Hellfire Warlock's ability.

'Q: Would the strongheart vest soulmeld (Magic of Incarnum p89) protect you from the ability damage of the hellfire warlock’s Hellfire Blast ability (Tyrants of the Nine Hells p90)?

A: The strongheart vest soulmeld reduces the amount of ability damage you receive from an attack; however, it will not keep you safe from the costs of Hellfire Blast because the ability damage you are taking is not from someone attacking you.'

Quote from the Errata on WotC

Link: http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ask/20080507a

streakster
2008-10-09, 09:31 PM
Why the level of binder? I don't see what you gain from that. Having played a warlock personally I would suggest that you really can't afford to lose any caster levels. Especially in a powergaming group. You only have so many invocations. You need as many of them as you can get.


No doubt he wants to bind a vestige to avoid the ill effects of Hellfire Warlock.

Stupendous_Man
2008-10-09, 09:32 PM
Quote from the Errata on WotC

Link: http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ask/20080507a

That's not the errata...

Elidis
2008-10-09, 09:35 PM
Why the level of binder? I don't see what you gain from that. Having played a warlock personally I would suggest that you really can't afford to lose any caster levels. Especially in a powergaming group. You only have so many invocations. You need as many of them as you can get.

More about invocations. Baleful Utterance is a great invocation. Eldritch Glaive is awesome and Spiderwalk is great. Another one that I love personally is All Around Eyes from complete mage. +6 to spot and search and comprehend languages on touch. I found that one to be very useful.

For later on Walk Unseen can't be beat. The ability to turn invisible pretty much at will is insanely good. Pair that with the quicken spell like ability feat and you can turn invisible as a swift action 3x a day. Bam! Shoot someone in the face with your eldritch blast, turn invisible as a swift action and then move to another hex.

Just a couple of suggestions. Anyway have fun.

I need the binder level for the Nabrious pact so I can regenerate the CON damage I take next round by 1 from casting my Hellfire Blast and Hellfire Shield from the Hellfire Warlock PrC. Were playing to 24. One level of binder is not going to effect me in the long run (I think), it should help me with my PrC.

All Around Eyes would be amazing since were taking alot of spot checks Ill look into it.

Quicken Spell Like Abbility on Walk Unseen, wow thats mad, sounds like fun hehe. Though Fell Flight mixed with Walk Unseen should be great for scouting I thought and to be able to do it in 1 round thats just silly hehe.

Elidis
2008-10-09, 09:36 PM
That's not the errata...

Im sorry, I thought it was :S

Though its still WotC saying it doesnt work ;)

streakster
2008-10-09, 09:38 PM
Quicken SLA is also great for flee the scene.

Elidis
2008-10-09, 09:43 PM
Quicken SLA is also great for flee the scene.

Now thats great for realy, realy bad situations, mixed with flying arround limitless possiblitys.

Stupendous_Man
2008-10-09, 09:47 PM
Im sorry, I thought it was :S

Though its still WotC saying it doesnt work ;)

That's the Sage saying it won't work.

It's unofficial advice/ruling on the subject. It is one man's opinion. It is a houserule, not RAW.

I could go on.

Elidis
2008-10-09, 09:52 PM
That's the Sage saying it won't work.

It's unofficial advice/ruling on the subject. It is one man's opinion. It is a houserule, not RAW.

I could go on.

Fair enough, though I still cant use it due to DM's rule 0.

Stupendous_Man
2008-10-09, 09:54 PM
Fair enough, though I still cant use it due to DM's rule 0.

Yes, that is true.

Eldariel
2008-10-09, 10:11 PM
To Eldariel:

That was some good infomation there thank you. Where can I find infomation on wands and eternal wands (book wise)?

Wands are in Dungeon Master's Guide (or SRD (http://www.d20srd.com/)) - they can be made of any 4th level spell or lower. Eternal Wands are in Magic Item Compendium.


Only issue with taking the 'Shatter' invocation is that we have not encountered anything that uses equipment. So far its been Animated objects, Formians, Hydras, and mainly monsters.

Well, you can still break the ropes holding a bridge, the top of a small stalactite to drop it on folks, acid flasks, any sorts of explosive substances possibly nearby, etc. Still, in such a scenario, it's indeed less useful (although you could ask your DM if you can use it vs. Animated Objects for 1d6/level damage like vs. Crystallines; that seems like a reasonable houserule).


Issue with the Eldritch Golves is that its only one element? and which element would I choose?

Gauntlets of Thunder are awesome. Sonic is very rarely resisted.


Some extra questions:

Any Idea on decent warlock feats?

As said, the Spell-Like Ability-modifying feats. Also, Crafting. Ability Focus isn't horrible either for +2 DC to Eldritch Blast-invocations.


Can I wear mirthil medium armour without medium armour feat? if I can, can I have the RAW for it please? Also does it count as medium armour for ASF?

Mithril Medium Armor counts as a Light Armor (see the section for Mithril in DMG or http://www.d20srd.com/), so yes.

Elidis
2008-10-09, 10:26 PM
Gauntlets of Thunder are awesome. Sonic is very rarely resisted.

What about the Gloves Of Eldritch Admixture? I think these are good, though one question can I sacrifice my move action for another swift action? so I take 1 standard action and 2 swift actions? so I can infuse it with hellfire?

monty
2008-10-09, 10:29 PM
What about the Gloves Of Eldritch Admixture? I think these are good, though one question can I sacrifice my move action for another swift action? so I take 1 standard action and 2 swift actions? so I can infuse it with hellfire?

No. Only one swift/immediate action per turn.

Eldariel
2008-10-09, 10:31 PM
Nope. By rules, you can't change anything into Swift Actions. Reasonable houserule is allowing you to change your Standard Action into Swift Action, but allowing changing your Move Action into Swift Action tends to be a Very Bad Idea™ (as most things can operate off Swift Actions, so moving becomes a huge tactical mistake, as it denies you that extra boost or extra Quickened spell or extra teleport>shadow pounce or...you get the point). It's better to think of movement as something you do while you take your other actions, than as a separate action.

Douglas
2008-10-09, 10:42 PM
Im sorry, I thought it was :S

Though its still WotC saying it doesnt work ;)
It is also a WotC representative being wrong. Let me quote the actual text of Strongheart Vest for you:

Any time you would take ability damage, such as Constitution damage or Strength damage, the amount of the damage is reduced by 1 point, to a minimum of 0.
Note the lack of qualifiers on the word "any".

Elidis
2008-10-09, 10:46 PM
To Douglas:

Is there a 100% fool proof RAW for Strong Heart Vest? (its not a jab its a real question hehe)

Elidis
2008-10-09, 10:48 PM
No. Only one swift/immediate action per turn.

Damn, so not like 4th Edition ;)

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-09, 10:50 PM
To Douglas:

Is there a 100% fool proof RAW for Strong Heart Vest? (its not a jab its a real question hehe)Hellfire says "Each time you use this ability, you take 1 point of Constitution damage. ...if you do not have a Constitution score or are somehow immune to Constitution damage, you cannot use this ability."
By RAW, the Vest is essentially DR 1/- for ability damage. That is not the same thing as immunity.

Douglas
2008-10-09, 10:55 PM
The rules text for Strongheart Vest mentions attacks in a) the flavor text, and b) the one-sentence descriptive summary. Neither has any actual rules mechanics impact. The actual rules mechanics (ignoring adding extra essentia) are determined entirely by the sentence I quoted above, which states that it works ANY time you take ability damage.

It could be argued that the Rules As Intended might be that it doesn't work - and the Sage is notorious for ruling by his view of RAI even when it is abundantly clear that his ruling is not RAW - but the RAW is quite clear that it does.

Elidis
2008-10-09, 10:55 PM
Hellfire says "Each time you use this ability, you take 1 point of Constitution damage. ...if you do not have a Constitution score or are somehow immune to Constitution damage, you cannot use this ability."
By RAW, the Vest is essentially DR 1/- for ability damage. That is not the same thing as immunity.

Im going to chat with my DM now xD, I'm gonner get me that soul meld hehe

Elidis
2008-10-09, 10:56 PM
The rules text for Strongheart Vest mentions attacks in a) the flavor text, and b) the one-sentence descriptive summary. Neither has any actual rules mechanics impact. The actual rules mechanics (ignoring adding extra essentia) are determined entirely by the sentence I quoted above, which states that it works ANY time you take ability damage.

It could be argued that the Rules As Intended might be that it doesn't work - and the Sage is notorious for ruling by his view of RAI even when it is abundantly clear that his ruling is not RAW - but the RAW is quite clear that it does.

Thank you ^_^

Elidis
2008-10-09, 11:09 PM
Class wise I will be doing:

21 Warlock / 3 Hellfire Warlock

Stat Wise:

10 STR
16 DEX
10 CON
16 INT
10 WIS
21 CHA

I forgot we where playing the 32 point build so my original stats would be:

10 STR
15 DEX
10 CON
16 INT
10 WIS
16 CHA

I think I will be doing this with my Feats and Invocations:

1: Point Blank Shot
3: Precise Shot
6: Weapon Focus: Ranged Touch Attacks
9: Soul Meld: Strong Heart Vest
12: Improves Critical: Ranged Touch Attacks
15: Quicken Spell-Like Ability: Flee the Scene
18: Empower Spell-Like Ability: Eldritch Blast
21: Eldritch Sculpter
24: Lord of All Essences

Least: Eldritch Spear, See the Unseen, Sickining Blast
Lesser: Eldritch Chain, Brimstone Blast, Voracious Dispelling, Fell Flight, Flee the Scene
Greater: Eldritch Cone, Vitriolic Blast
Dark: Eldritch Doom, Utterdark Blast

What do you guys think?

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-09, 11:13 PM
Wait, this is Epic? Well, that changes a lot. I don't know much about Epic, sorry, but the whole game changes at 21.

Stupendous_Man
2008-10-09, 11:32 PM
Precise Shot? Point Blank Shot? In an Epic Build?

Eldariel
2008-10-09, 11:34 PM
Precise Shot? Point Blank Shot? In an Epic Build?

The build will be played into Epic from level 1.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-09, 11:36 PM
Precise Shot? Point Blank Shot? In an Epic Build?You missed the Weapon Focus. Lose that. You're talking about Touch Attacks with 16 Dex. Your to-hit at level 6 will be +8. That hits most touch ACs on a 3 or so.

Stupendous_Man
2008-10-09, 11:41 PM
The build will be played into Epic from level 1.

At level one, it is unnecessary as well.

streakster
2008-10-09, 11:44 PM
*Stuff*

Least: Eldritch Spear, See the Unseen, Sickining Blast
Lesser: Eldritch Chain, Brimstone Blast, Voracious Dispelling, Fell Flight, Flee the Scene
Greater: Eldritch Cone, Vitriolic Blast
Dark: Eldritch Doom, Utterdark Blast


Do not take Doom unless you will be in melee combat. I'd swap that for Retributive Invisibility, myself.

Cone and Chain seems redundant. The Dead Walk or Spider Shape could replace Chain, or Nightmares Made Real or Chilling Tentacles could replace Cone.

You might want to swap out sickening blast later. It's not useful later on.

You might want to go for Shadowmaster as your epic. Don't know the PreReqs, though. I hear they're bad.

You've got Chausables, Horizon Goggles, a Warlock's Scepter, and a copy of the Codex Advocare, right?

No Extra Invocations? 2 Levels of Chameleon, and you can take a new extra invocation every day.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-09, 11:45 PM
At level one, it is unnecessary as well.It's useful at one. It's junk by about 8. That's what the PHBII is for, though. At one, the +1 is nice, at 3, the -4 hurts, but by 6-8 you'll want something better.

Tokiko Mima
2008-10-10, 01:26 AM
You want Flyby Attack in there, and don't forget Empower SLA's nastier cousin 'Maximize SLA' hiding in Complete Arcane. If anyone gives you a line about using Empower SLA and Maximize SLA at once, refer them to the description of Maximize SLA in Complete Arcane which details the rules for doing exactly that. Remember that Quicken SLA and Empower SLA were updated in MM3 and no longer have the 'as a free action, once a round' wording.

As everyone else says, dump Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus: Ranged Touch Attacks. Other than Precise Shot, those feats are all weaksauce. Once you pass level 10, you'll almost never miss a blast unless you roll a 1, so +attack feats are a feat you'll regret. You can get the exact effect of Precise Shot from a Rod of Magical Precision courtesy of Complete Mage so why bother spending one of your feats on it?

Rethink the Improved Critical unless you had nothing else good to fit in, and even then I'd save it for melee touch attacks and Eldritch Glaive where you get a lot of chances to roll a 19 or 20.

Consider how often your party will be attacking from 250' and maybe you won't want Eldritch Spear. If you really think you need it, crack open Complete Mage and buy a least Rod of Eldritch power (Eldritch Spear) for 4,000gp. It's only 5 times a day, but how often do DM's let you blast something before it runs into melee range?

Don't forget to include a wand of Divine Power in your collection if you plan on taking Eldritch Glaive.

Drop E.Doom and E.Cone. Since you have Eldritch Chain you can already hit 4+ targets in their given area, and Chain is generally more effective on classes with Evasion since there is no Reflex save for them to take no damage from.

Lastly, Shape Soulmeld (Strongheart Vest) is not as critical as you might think it is. A simple wand of Restoration is usually more than adequate to address all your needs, so it's probably the least vital of all your feats.


P.S. If you need convincing to take Eldritch Glaive consider how completely shut-down you'd been if the DM ever looked on page 166 of the Spell Compendium and buffed NPC's with the spell in the middle of the third column from the left. Yes it does exactly what you think it does to your offense, it is unfair, but it's RAW, and yes that's a good reason to pack dispel magic. My point is, it doesn't prevent melee touch attacks, so that's why taking Glaive can keep you in the game.

Elidis
2008-10-10, 01:50 AM
Ok, I see that you dont like my starting feats. I can understand that Point Blank shot and Precise Shot and WF:RTA are going to become obsolete when I am slighty higher. You have mentioned this though you have not provided an alternative to these 3 feats.

I have just noticed an issue with my feats though I am not 100% sure it is a mistake though:

Can I take a feat that requires 24 ranks in spell craft at level 21? (level 21 is when I have 24 ranks in spell craft) or do I have to have the 24 ranks before I take the feat?

If so Im dropping Lord of all Essences and taking something else, Though I want Eldritch Shaper which requires me to have 1 Eldritch Shape Invocation per level of invocation (one least, lesser, greater and dark shape).

Here is my Revised list of invocations:

Least: Eldritch Spear, See the Unseen, All-Seeing Eye's OR Baleful Utterance OR Spiderwalk (will need some help with that)
Lesser: Eldritch Chain, Brimstone Blast, Voracious Dispelling, Fell Flight, Flee the Scene
Greater: Eldritch Cone, Vitriolic Blast
Dark: Eldritch Doom, Utterdark Blast

If someone can offer me a better feat than Eldritch Shaper, then ill change my Invocations to this:

Least: Eldritch Spear, See the Unseen, All-Seeing Eye's OR Baleful Utterance OR Spiderwalk (will need some help with that)
Lesser: Eldritch Chain, Brimstone Blast, Voracious Dispelling, Fell Flight, Flee the Scene
Greater: Chilling Tentecles, Vitriolic Blast
Dark: Baleful Polymorph, Utterdark Blast

Douglas
2008-10-10, 01:56 AM
Can I take a feat that requires 24 ranks in spell craft at level 21? (level 21 is when I have 24 ranks in spell craft) or do I have to have the 24 ranks before I take the feat?
Yes, you can. The formal levelup process is outlined step by step on pages 58-59 of the PHB. Skill points come before feats, so you can use skill points to qualify for feats at the same level you get them.

Elidis
2008-10-10, 02:06 AM
Yes, you can. The formal levelup process is outlined step by step on pages 58-59 of the PHB. Skill points come before feats, so you can use skill points to qualify for feats at the same level you get them.

Hmm, makes me want to use the Lord of all Essence's with Eldritch Shaper so I can cast 2 Eldritch Blasts per standard action and put 2 essences into both of them.

Though I am still looking for an alternative since it takes up 3 invocation slots on invocations I dont realy want to have.

Elidis
2008-10-10, 02:52 AM
Feats Wise I have changed to this:

1: Point Blank Shot
3: Precise Shot
6: Maximise Spell-Like Ability: Eldritch Blast
9: Soul Meld: Strong Heart Vest
12: Extra Invocation: Walk Unseen
15: Quicken Spell-Like Ability: Flee the Scene
18: Empower Spell-Like Ability: Eldritch Blast
21: Eldritch Shaper
24: Lord of all Essence's


Need to change my stats now for the Shape Soulmeld: Strong Heart Vest feat, forgot it needs 13 CON

Starting:

8 STR
14 DEX
12 CON
16 INT
10 WIS
16 CHA

Ending:

8 STR
16 DEX
14 CON
16 INT
10 WIS
18 CHA

Still cant find any level 1 or 3 feats that appeal to me.

Douglas
2008-10-10, 03:19 AM
Move Shape Soulmeld to level 1, Empower SLA to level 6, and Maximize SLA to 9 (you don't qualify for it at 6). If you can't think of anything better for the now empty slot at 18, take Extra Invocation again.

Elidis
2008-10-10, 03:48 AM
Move Shape Soulmeld to level 1, Empower SLA to level 6, and Maximize SLA to 9 (you don't qualify for it at 6). If you can't think of anything better for the now empty slot at 18, take Extra Invocation again.

Ah thanks for that.

Ok new Idea:

1: PointBlank Shot
3: Precise Shot
6: Soul Meld: Strong Heart Vest
9: Maximise Spell-Like Ability: Eldritch Blast
12: Extra Invocation: Walk Unseen
15: Quicken Spell-Like Ability: Flee the Scene
18: Empower Spell-Like Ability: Eldritch Blast
21: Epic Eldritch Blast (+1d6)
24: Epic Fiendish Resliance

I am going to keep Pointblank Shot and Precise Shot against my better judgment so what I have done is changed my epic feats so I am no longer reliant on specific invocations for my feats and now able to take more viable ones. I switched Soul Meld arround with Maximise so It is legal now to take them as long as I take +1 con at level 4 (which I will be doing in my next session)

Least: Eldritch Spear, See the Unseen, All-Seeing Eye's
Lesser: Eldritch Chain, Brimstone Blast, Voracious Dispelling, Fell Flight, Flee the Scene, Walk Unseen
Greater: Chilling Tentecles, Vitriolic Blast
Dark: Baleful Polymorph, Utterdark Blast

Stats:

10 STR -> 10 STR
15 DEX -> 16 DEX (+1)
12 CON -> 13 CON (+1)
14 INT -> 14 INT
10 WIS -> 10 WIS
16 CHA -> 20 CHA (+4)

Skills:

12 Intimidation
12 Concentartion
24 Spellcraft
24 Knowldge (Planes)
24 Use Magic Device

Douglas
2008-10-10, 04:06 AM
Don't drop Eldritch Sculptor. I don't care how many of your invocations you have to spend to qualify for it, it doubles your damage output from Eldritch Blast.

Elidis
2008-10-10, 04:20 AM
Don't drop Eldritch Sculptor. I don't care how many of your invocations you have to spend to qualify for it, it doubles your damage output from Eldritch Blast.

This is the Eldritch Sculptor Build I am going to go for, Unless the majority of people think that my previouse build is better.

1: PointBlank Shot
3: Precise Shot
6: Soul Meld: Strong Heart Vest
9: Maximise Spell-Like Ability: Eldritch Blast
12: Extra Invocation: Walk Unseen
15: Quicken Spell-Like Ability: Flee the Scene
18: Empower Spell-Like Ability: Eldritch Blast
21: Eldritch Sculptor
24: Epic Fiendish Resliance

Least: Eldritch Spear, See the Unseen, All-Seeing Eye's
Lesser: Eldritch Chain, Brimstone Blast, Voracious Dispelling, Fell Flight, Flee the Scene, Walk Unseen
Greater: Eldritch Cone, Vitriolic Blast
Dark: Eldritch Blast, Utterdark Blast

Stats:

10 STR -> 10 STR
15 DEX -> 16 DEX (+1)
12 CON -> 13 CON (+1)
14 INT -> 14 INT
10 WIS -> 10 WIS
16 CHA -> 20 CHA (+4)

Skills:

13 Intimidation
14 Concentartion
27 Spellcraft
27 Knowldge (Planes)
27 Use Magic Device

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-10, 04:33 AM
Look into the PHBII retraining rules. I hate being a broken record, but the Precise/Point-Blank feats aren't worth it with Touch Attacks by level 10(Your to-hit, with only Dex and BAB is +10 and the average Touch AC at that point is about 9). Trade them for Extra Invocation(Eldritch Glaive) and Wep Finesse. You need to be able to survive melee.

Elidis
2008-10-10, 04:34 AM
Last question I think:

An empowered, maximised eldritch blast, does that mean I would do 1.5 worth of the damage that it does maximised?

for example:

Level 24 EB with Hellfire Blast = 13d6 > Empower > 19d6 > Maximise > 116 damage > Hellfire Blast > +6d6 = 6d6+116?

Or does the Hellfire Blast also get maximised?

Or is it 6d6+6d6+78 (13d6 maximised + 6d6 Empower +6d6 Hellfire Blast)?

Elidis
2008-10-10, 04:36 AM
Look into the PHBII retraining rules. I hate being a broken record, but the Precise/Point-Blank feats aren't worth it with Touch Attacks by level 10(Your to-hit, with only Dex and BAB is +10 and the average Touch AC at that point is about 9). Trade them for Extra Invocation(Eldritch Glaive) and Wep Finesse. You need to be able to survive melee.

How will Weapon Finesse help me? Since the glaive counts as ranged touch attacks D20+DEX Bonus+AB, Im not going to hit things with my weapon, only with the glaive.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-10, 04:39 AM
Last question I think:

An empowered, maximised eldritch blast, does that mean I would do 1.5 worth of the damage that it does maximised?

for example:

Level 24 EB with Hellfire Blast = 13d6 > Empower > 19d6 > Maximise > 116 damage > Hellfire Blast > +6d6 = 6d6+116?

Or does the Hellfire Blast also get maximised?

Or is it 6d6+6d6+78 (13d6 maximised + 6d6 Empower +6d6 Hellfire Blast)?Empower d3s are not Maximized, all other dice are. So yes, both the Hellfire and the normal damage get enhanced from the feats. So if you have 9d6 EB damage and 6d6 Hellfire you end up dealing 15d3+90 damage. Toss in Glaive or Chain and the world will quail in fear.

Edit:The Glaive is Touch attacks, not ranged touch. Also, double posting is frowned upon.

Elidis
2008-10-10, 04:48 AM
Edit:The Glaive is Touch attacks, not ranged touch.

Ah, so thats D20+STR Bonus+AB? and Finesse will change it to DEX Bonus, ok I think I will be doing some retraining when I reach level 8-10 to get those 2 feats.

I would like to say, thank you for everyones help over the last couple of hours, and its been most informative and extreamly helpful. I think I am now happy with my build and I should be able to keep up with my friends now. Thank you.

monty
2008-10-10, 10:26 AM
Empower d3s are not Maximized, all other dice are. So yes, both the Hellfire and the normal damage get enhanced from the feats. So if you have 9d6 EB damage and 6d6 Hellfire you end up dealing 15d3+90 damage. Toss in Glaive or Chain and the world will quail in fear.

Edit:The Glaive is Touch attacks, not ranged touch. Also, double posting is frowned upon.

Empower is not d3. (n)d6 becomes ((3n)d6)/2, or for maximized it becomes 6n+((n)d6)/2.

From Maximize Spell:

An empowered, maximized spell gains the separate benefits of each feat: the maximum result plus one-half the normally rolled result.
Note that half the normal result is not the same as the normal result using a die of half the size. For example, (10d6)/2 has an average value of 17.5, while 10d3 has an average of 20.

Saph
2008-10-10, 02:34 PM
I disagree with the people saying to drop Precise Shot; I'd keep it. Many of the nastier enemies out there have good Touch ACs, and the effective +5 it gives for firing into a melee at close range will turn many, many misses into hits. Remember that DMs can optimise too, and it's not at all hard to skyrocket a monster's touch AC.

- Saph

sombrastewart
2008-10-10, 04:06 PM
I'll throw something else in: Supernatural Transformation from MM1. It will make your Eldritch Blast a Supernatural ability instead of Spell Like ability for the purposes of Spell Resistance.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-10, 04:07 PM
I'll throw something else in: Supernatural Transformation from MM1. It will make your Eldritch Blast a Supernatural ability instead of Spell Like ability for the purposes of Spell Resistance.Virtolic Blast does the same thing, and is much cooler about it.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-10-10, 05:45 PM
Virtolic Blast does the same thing, and is much cooler about it.

Not really, Virtolic Blast just removes SR from the equasion. It's still a SLA, and as such, must comply with Arcane Spell Failure and Verbal/Somatic spell components, just as though he was actually casting the thing. It can also be counterspelled. A (SU) ability cannot.

My suggestions:

Take Naberous over Strongheart Vest. Same thing when it all boils down to it, but a lot less likely for the GM to shoot it down.

If you're going to take Precise shot, why not take Improved Precise Shot? Negates cover (except total) and removes the possibility of hitting your allies who are in melee with your target.

Craft Wand was made for Locks. At level 12, you get an ability to UMD any spell to 'know' it for making items. Now you can craft any wand in existance. Not only will your Sorcerer be your best friend, because he doesn't have to keep things like Grease as a Spell Known, but the party Rogue just became your willing minion in exchange for a few handy 'tools'. Wands of Knock and Scorching Ray are the most popular for Rogues, although some prefer Melf over Scorching due to SR considerations.

You said you're in a low magic item game, right? So simply make your own. Also remember, you will be able to make Wands of Cure x Wounds, which makes you invaluable as an emergency bandaid box if the primary healer got hit with a Save or Loose and lost.

Tokiko Mima
2008-10-10, 06:32 PM
I disagree with the people saying to drop Precise Shot; I'd keep it. Many of the nastier enemies out there have good Touch ACs, and the effective +5 it gives for firing into a melee at close range will turn many, many misses into hits. Remember that DMs can optimise too, and it's not at all hard to skyrocket a monster's touch AC.

- Saph

Precise Shot is great, but you need two feats to get it. If you have a Rod of Magical Precision, you get the same effect and it only costs you in gold. Plus, the rod lets you ignore less than total cover a few times a day. :smallsmile:

Saph
2008-10-10, 06:44 PM
Precise Shot is great, but you need two feats to get it. If you have a Rod of Magical Precision, you get the same effect and it only costs you in gold. Plus, the rod lets you ignore less than total cover a few times a day. :smallsmile:

True, but the OP did say that magic items are hard to find in his campaign. Though I suppose he could just take Craft Rod at level 12.

- Saph

monty
2008-10-10, 08:17 PM
Not really, Virtolic Blast just removes SR from the equasion. It's still a SLA, and as such, must comply with Arcane Spell Failure and Verbal/Somatic spell components, just as though he was actually casting the thing. It can also be counterspelled. A (SU) ability cannot.

ASF shouldn't be a problem. Why would you wear heavy armor anyway? It does have somatic components, but not verbal. Big deal. And SLAs can't be counterspelled either. So, Supernatural Transformation gives you...no somatic components, basically.

On the other hand, you lose the ability to apply any meta-SLAs to it.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-10-10, 09:45 PM
ASF shouldn't be a problem. Why would you wear heavy armor anyway? It does have somatic components, but not verbal. Big deal. And SLAs can't be counterspelled either. So, Supernatural Transformation gives you...no somatic components, basically.

On the other hand, you lose the ability to apply any meta-SLAs to it.

Without blowing a feat, ASF applies to medium armor as well, like Mithral Full Plate. Supernatural abilities also cannot be Dispelled, nor do they provoke AoO when used.

monty
2008-10-10, 09:48 PM
Without blowing a feat, ASF applies to medium armor as well, like Mithral Full Plate. Supernatural abilities also cannot be Dispelled, nor do they provoke AoO when used.

Ok, I meant heavy armor as in not light, not necessarily the specific armor type. Besides, if you wear heavier (happy now?) armor, you'll still have ASF on all your other invocations unless you take Supernatural Transformation on every single one you use regularly. Also, you can cast SLAs defensively, so AoOs aren't a problem either once you can make the Concentration check. Besides, if you're using EB in melee, you should be using Glaive, which doesn't provoke anyway.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-10-10, 10:06 PM
Ok, I meant heavy armor as in not light, not necessarily the specific armor type. Besides, if you wear heavier (happy now?) armor, you'll still have ASF on all your other invocations unless you take Supernatural Transformation on every single one you use regularly. Also, you can cast SLAs defensively, so AoOs aren't a problem either once you can make the Concentration check. Besides, if you're using EB in melee, you should be using Glaive, which doesn't provoke anyway.

As it is an SLA, your Glaive can be dispelled. Where's your damage output now? This goes double if you actually face another 'lock who picked up something like Reaving Dispel or the lower level version.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-10, 10:08 PM
As it is an SLA, your Glaive can be dispelled. Where's your damage output now? This goes double if you actually face another 'lock who picked up something like Reaving Dispel or the lower level version.It's an at-will ability, and they spent an action dispelling it. You cost them a slot and traded actions. Not a huge loss, especially since they had to ready an action.

monty
2008-10-10, 10:21 PM
As it is an SLA, your Glaive can be dispelled. Where's your damage output now? This goes double if you actually face another 'lock who picked up something like Reaving Dispel or the lower level version.

Can you dispel an instantaneous effect? If not, you're just losing AoOs. Besides, as Sstoopidtallkid said, they have to ready an action to do it, so it's basically just a wasted round for both of you.

Tokiko Mima
2008-10-11, 01:18 PM
Actually, I was under the impression that Eldritch Blast was a spell-like ability and not an invocation. It shouldn't have somatic components in the first place.

Paul H
2008-10-12, 03:35 PM
Hi

There are items that can repair stat damage each day. One's a Rod, the other's Wraith's Woe. Both in MIC.

The complete set (Choker, Gauntlets, Shirt), grant Detect Undead at will & Cure all Abilty Damage plus Drain on one ability 1/Day. That's in addition to:
Gauntlets +2 AC & Protection vs 3 Neg Lvls/Day
Gauntlets Ignore Incorporeal miss chance, +D6 dam vs incorporeal
Shirt Hide vs Undead (even intelligent undead).

Don't forget you auto pass any umd check to use wands.

Cheers
Paul H

Paul H
2008-10-12, 04:01 PM
Hi

Eldritch Blast is similar to a Spell Like ability, but still draws attacks of opportunity, and is subject to Arcane Spell Failure. It is also affected by Spell Resistance.

However, it still is a Std Action that you can use at will.

Cheers
Paul H

Tokiko Mima
2008-10-13, 06:01 AM
Hi

Eldritch Blast is similar to a Spell Like ability, but still draws attacks of opportunity, and is subject to Arcane Spell Failure. It is also affected by Spell Resistance.

However, it still is a Std Action that you can use at will.

Cheers
Paul H

All of those are true of spell-like abilities except ASF. Eldritch Blast is a true spell-like ability and as such has no ASF. It is not an invocation, though it can be modified by invocations. A warlock can also use his Detect Magic (Sp) Class feature in full armor without penalty, it is only his invocations known that require light armor or less because they have somatic components (and a few of them, like Baleful Utterance, appear to have verbal components.) Eldritch Blast by itself has no somatic components.

If you need a source on that, check Complete Arcane pg. 8 Warlock Invocations: Invocations and Eldritch Blast.