Like a Fish Out of Water...

[Neon Knight]

So there's this game I'm in (PbP of course, as if I could get lucky enough to play anything else) and I've come to the realization that my character is a complete and utter mook. (It's not DnD by the way. Dominion 3.0, a system I'm new at.)

The path to my utter lack of relevance was laid long before the current date. I was the first player to express interest in the game, an interesting affair involving a crazy power lich slavering over the remains of an ancient civilization he destroyed and us, the PCs, trying to get enough power to reclaim our homes from him.

Living on the shore of a separate continent, I figured we'd see some of the sea before the campaign was up. So I rolled up an old, filthy, haggard peasant fisherman, a man who'd lived most of his life alone and spent more time with fish then with men. (No dirty jokes.)

Unfortunately, the rest of the group decided on a wilderness survival theme, and everyone else is focused more on surviving in the woods. Lo and behold, are first quest is a winter trek to recon the goblin tribes raiding the coastal survivors of the undead holocaust. My character has zero skills to add to this journey, other than the fact that he is another pair of hands.

The simple fact is no one, DM included, has any idea how to handle, reconcile, or incorporate my character. The opening of the game was basically a debate on expansionist policy/philosophy, which my character had a hard time relating to/speaking about.

The other characters have received much more attention from the DM; the mage was made leader of the group, the old magocracy still having power, Captain Ranger (as I like to call him) is of course the darling of the group, and his lieutenant Little Miss Nature Priest is similarly courted. These three are the official leaders of the group, as declared by the NPC headman who sent us out to peep at greenskins. Even the new guy, a frikkin' bear of a man, is receiving attention from our NPC companion, Lucian, due to his eagerness to crack goblin heads.

Compacting matters is his advancement policy; characters earn AP (roughly XP analog, used to advance/improve characters) based on how much they post, earning more AP for more posts. This is, quite frankly, brutally unfair. The NPCs are far more inclined to speak to the mage then anyone else, and if not the mage then one of the two other leaders. Plus, I object to it on the principle of quality posts should matter more than a certain quantity.

The pressure really builds when you add the fact that he doesn't like "navel gazing" as he calls it. He doesn't want you posting if you're not doing or saying something important. Your inner thoughts are not relevant for this game. :smallfurious:

This completely screws passive/background types over, inherently rewarding the aggressive and direct while shunning the subtle and passive. Stoics and those who think before they speak simply have less to post about. Guess who made a character that is both of those?

The other characters have informally drifted together, mostly ignoring me. And quite frankly, they should. Ranger Captain is a relatively well known tracker. Little Miss Nature Priest is a nature priest and something of a shining star, known for her altruism. Mage is a mage, thus making her important as one of the leaders and rulers of our dregs of a magocratic empire. Me? I'm an unknown peasant fisherman from a separate region who was little known in that area anyway.

The biggest thing showing how I'm a gigantic elephant in the proverbial room of the game with an anchor tied around my ankle is how we were assembled as a group. The NPC headsman who organized this whole thing sent his men out to contact us about the mission, suggested by Mage. They somehow knew how to find a stranger who had wandered into town, a stranger who was completely unremarkable and looked very much like every other bleedin' peasant in the place. The big question is: why? Every other member of the group has some skill that can apply to this wilderness venture, and in an obvious manner. Why on earth would the headman pick out a fisherman to go on a dangerous wilderness trek? Even as extra muscle, I'm do nothing an unnamed NPC toady couldn't do. What in the name of Castle Greyskull is my reason for being chosen for this mission? I brought it up in character, and promptly got ignored. Everyone else got little remarks of glowing praise establishing that they were a valued member of the team. I am more than a little annoyed.

Now, some of my relevance problems are due to how I designed the character. I accept that. I wasn't planning on being in the forefront anyway. But all of these things have combined to make me little more than a reoccurring redshirt, and I feel the DM and the other players haven't even attempted to meet me halfway.

I guess I'd like advice, but I have to admit ranting about it makes me feel a bit better regardless of the response I get.

[Starbuck_II]

Why on earth would the headman pick out a fisherman to go on a dangerous wilderness trek? Even as extra muscle, I'm do nothing an unnamed NPC toady couldn't do. What in the name of Castle Greyskull is my reason for being chosen for this mission?

I guess I'd like advice, but I have to admit ranting about it makes me feel a bit better regardless of the response I get.

Maybe there is potential in that the Mage saw when he recruited you. potential you yourself can't see (that happens in alot of TV/movies).

Can you decribe the game mechanics/how you built your character (I've never heard of Dominion so it would help).

Is it point based or class based?

[AstralFire]

Well, mostly I'd say that is unfortunate and blows, but the DM's AP policy sounds very poorly constructed, especially if it's actually a simple rule (1 AP = 1 Post?) rather than ad hoc. (...Simple rules are easier to abuse than ad hoc, it's the complex ones that are good.) You mentioned that specifically to him?

Also, getting things off your chest is good.

[Bryn]

If it's really that bad... would it be possible to ask the GM and players if they'd mind if you retire your character and introduce a new, wilderness-orientated one? You can't be blamed for expecting something different, and now you understand what the game is about it would be much easier to make something appropriate.

[Tsotha-lanti]

The AP policy is seriously borked - how much you "talk" and thrust yourself into the spotlight shouldn't help you mechanically.

Other than that, though, it's your problem. Make a new character that fits the game better. You should've done that to begin with.

[Neon Knight]

Maybe there is potential in that the Mage saw when he recruited you. potential you yourself can't see (that happens in alot of TV/movies).


Headman NPC picked us. I honestly have no idea how the Mage (a PC) got the job of announcing our quest. I'm sensing some behind the scenes private work, and I don't like it.



Can you decribe the game mechanics/how you built your character (I've never heard of Dominion so it would help).

Is it point based or class based?

The abridged version: Point based. You have a set of attributes. These are used to determine a set of composites. The composite number is used to set your starting skill level for all skills associated with that composite. The three composites are fighting, witchcraft, and priestcraft.

APs are then spent to improve skills and buy equipment. Simple.

O HAY NEW RANT. Some people spent APs on gear. Within the first few posts, the DM has dumped a whole ton of gear on our collective rears. I only got a free spear for equipment, but some of the other PCs spent some of their power on equipment made frivolous very quickly.

And one of the PCs bought a horse. I guess they had no experience with DnD paladins, because if they did, they would have realized that one PC mounted, the rest on foot is a recipe for trouble. DM tried to bait her into trading it for two mules very quickly. She didn't take it.

RANT, YOU WANT TALK MORE? We haven't even used the mechanics yet. All of my irrelevance so far is RP irrelevance, but once we do bust out the mechanics I'm not in good shape. The spear I have is a blatantly inferior weapon, most of my skills are in swimming/sea related crafts, any my fighting skills are only par even if I got better equipment. Also, I've got no armor. The DM really didn't communicate the environment well; I'm a sack cloth, sandal wearing peasant, but apparently we're in Norway or some crap, when I thought we were in a Mediterranean environment. Not to mention he never mentioned it was late fall.


Well, mostly I'd say that is unfortunate and blows, but the DM's AP policy sounds very poorly constructed, especially if it's actually a simple rule (1 AP = 1 Post?) rather than ad hoc. (...Simple rules are easier to abuse than ad hoc, it's the complex ones that are good.) You mentioned that specifically to him?



3 posts, 1 AP. 6 posts, 2 AP. 10 posts and impress him, 3 AP. This is per thread. O HAY RANT, YOU BACK SO SOON? Threads end at a specific time, regardless of whether the events/conversations in them are resolved or not. The current thread ends at 10:00 PM tonight, and I have only 1 post in that thread. I got 1 AP from the first thread (I think) but I'm starting to wonder what's the point?




Other than that, though, it's your problem. Make a new character that fits the game better. You should've done that to begin with.

I joined the game first. My character was begun first, although I finished about the same time as everyone else due to school. I didn't realize the whole wilderness synergy thing they had going on until the first post, I never figured the DM would run with it.

Plus, I expected the DM to anticipate something like. I try to do that for my players, when I'm not trying to convince them IC that they don't exist.

[Krrth]

Well...to be honest, the GM *should* have caught the fact that your skills were so out of whack with the rest of the party and said something before the game started.
I'd see about retconning the character or making a new one.


just thoughts now: You said there is fighting, witchcraft and priest craft? What deities are avaiable? Maybe a god notices your characters persistence and recruits them?

[Neon Knight]

just thoughts now: You said there is fighting, witchcraft and priest craft? What deities are avaiable? Maybe a god notices your characters persistence and recruits them?

There is one deity: The Creator. Lucian, an NPC, and Little Miss Nature Priest are both already in his service. No luck there.

[Krrth]

There is one deity: The Creator. Lucian, an NPC, and Little Miss Nature Priest are both already in his service. No luck there.
Um...stab them in their sleep and dedicate your life to destroying the world?

[Prometheus]

AP policy is stupid. A preferably alternate method would to provide AP for posts that RP well. If people spam to try to get RP points, the DM could always take away points for things that are inaccurate to the character sketch.

The fact that no NPCs care about you and that you aren't well integrated into the campaign has got to be the DM's fault as well, because those sorts of things are his job. You know your options here. You can do your DMs job for him and demand that he accept it, you can roll a new character, or you can leave.

[Neon Knight]

Um...stab them in their sleep and dedicate your life to destroying the world?

The Simpsons did it. The lich is trying to destroy the world already, and he would stab them in their sleep if he had the chance.

And now, without further adoo...

LIMIT BREAK RANT!!! :smallfurious:

So, I'm usually pretty good at picking up clues about the tone and mood of a game. So far, the system and in-game descriptions have supported a fairly conservative medieval inspired game. No crazy stuff here.

Until, of course, Lucian breaks out the kung-fu. OUR PRIEST KICKS ARSE FOR THE LORD! I'm angry because I love stuff like this and would have made a BA wuxia fighter, IF I HAD THOUGHT IT WAS APPROPRIATE TO THE TONE. But me and everyone else picked up the hint (or so we thought) that we were supposed to be fairly low key. And thus I made a humble spear fisherman. Mixed signals doesn't begin to cover it.

:smallsigh:

I'm really going to need therapy after this. I've never felt so completely... owned in my life. I feel like the whole game has been an elaborate prank to get me and they just punked me good.

[AstralFire]

I've never felt so completely... owned in my life. I feel like the whole game has been an elaborate prank to get me and they just punked me good.

No one expects the http://assyifa14.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/ashton_k-3.jpg

ASHTON KUTCHER

[Flickerdart]

Contact the DM one-on-one and see if your fisherman can "discover his inner Batman" off-screen. You're not going to be able to solve this without your DM.

[xPANCAKEx]

yep - im going to also say that talking to your DM is the best plan. Maybe he has some sort of encounter where your PC will shine later down the line.... but still, they shouldn;t leave you out in the cold as far as the action goes

[monty]

No one expects the http://assyifa14.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/ashton_k-3.jpg

ASHTON KUTCHER

I bet people expect the Spanish Inquisition when they open the spoiler. That was the point, right?

[AstralFire]

I bet people expect the Spanish Inquisition when they open the spoiler. That was the point, right?

Well, that and the fact that Kutcher is (was? I don't know, I don't watch TV) the host of a show called Punk'd. But yes, I was purposely screwing with that meme.

[chiasaur11]

Say your guy "can make heads explode".

If anyone says it wasn't on your sheet, it was a tightly kept secret.

Then make the Litch's head explode. If your party objects, well, the exploded skull of a teammate looks very similar to the exploded skull of an enemy.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Sounds like you're not enjoying the game at all, and no wonder. Quit and find a new one. PBP is wonderful because it comes without all those problems you have doing this if you're tabletopping with friends.

[Mewtarthio]

And it's not like the rest of the group will have any problems dealing with your absence, since you have absolutely zero impact on anything. You just fade away into another random redshirt.

Alternatively, you could subtly retcon your character to have a severe martyr complex. As soon as you get into combat, throw yourself into a melee with the toughest monster out there and stab it with your impotent little spear.* Eventually, you'll die, and you'll get to do whatever it is that dead people get to do in your game (hopefully, it involves rolling a new character).

*...Wow. That sounds really dirty now that I've typed it out.

[Draco Ignifer]

OK, so... your character is completely mis-made because you made an assumption the DM didn't correct, the DM didn't give you a chance to respec before the game began, he won't help you out, and then he makes a DMPC with kick-ass skills that appear out of nowhere?

No offense, but you're still playing why?

[Bob the Urgh]

You feel ignored, your character feels ignored, use your water knowledge and become a pirate against the party.

[phoenixcire]

You should become irritatingly belligerent. Constantly drunk sounds good too. Find ways to make the characters interact with yours. And hit on Little Miss Nature Priest constantly. Belligerent, drunk and horny=recipe for hilarity.

[Ulrichomega]

I was in a situation somewhat similar to yours in my last campaign (tabletop, Victoriana). It was a homebrewed world (we switched water-to-land proportions, and slapped a big desert in the middle), and the desert was full of necrotic energy. Anyway, it was just me (big warrior type) and the Major (wizard). Well, the first big enemy was a group of zombies that enjoy attacking outposts along the desert edge. It was after we destroy them that we find out about the necrotic energy of the sand in the desert. In the desert, sand pirates attack everything using this necrotic energy (the next quest was to destroy one of their clans). So the wizard starts researching spells left and right. Every one used the power of the sand to do something really cool. One created massive windstorms by using the old "opposites attract in reverse", another caused the zombies to burst apart using the same principle. Yet another channeled the energy into a necrotic blast, but mixed it with his own good energy in a vague and undefined way that kept it from being to evil. So here I was, a warrior in a Victorian Era game who couldn't use firearms (I made the character as a skilled general who simply beats his enemies to death, and is tough enough to take the bullets fired at him, it was a fluff thing). And the wizard is over there hurling spell after spell about that each single-handedly destroy dozens of enemies. The Major then gets a promotion to Lt. Colonel, making him outrank me (we were both in the army). In the end, I was simply the wizards body-guard who stared meanly at everything, but was less powerful than the wizard. We finished the campaign, and started the next one, where he took psychic powers (futuristic, slightly fantasy world). It went better in the one, since the Big Bad was a Sylar-esque character who fed on the minds of psychics. Then again, I played the pilot, and never even saw a spaceship, so...

Anyway, I just lived with it, because I was able to continue roleplaying effectively. In your situation, I would start to take charge. Step to the front of every encounter, and loudly proclaim that you speak for your group, or something else that lets everyone else know that you are the one in charge here. Don't be afraid to knock some heads. Try to convince the new guy that he should follow you, and put more ranks/points into whatever the charisma attribute is. Add some to strength too, and some to intelligence. Just out-roleplay the other guys. Make your voice heard, even if you don't know what you're talking about.

[DarknessLord]

You should become irritatingly belligerent. Constantly drunk sounds good too. Find ways to make the characters interact with yours. And hit on Little Miss Nature Priest constantly. Belligerent, drunk and horny=recipe for hilarity.

Proof positive. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl6A6zElR2k)

Man I love Lunar.

[Quietus]

If you want to continue with this game, talk to the DM, and see if he'll let you start swapping some points around. Try to be diplomatic when you ask - and suggest that you do it be "talking to the other players in-character, and getting them to teach you some new skills". Sure, it puts you in a slightly dependent role, but now you get to do lots of roleplay (OHAY, AP), and you can at least build your character toward something more appropriate, if not retcon the older skills that haven't helped (and that you don't want to keep) into something that benefits the party.

Alternatively, drop the game. Explain to the DM that your presence appears meaningless, and to prove it, you're stepping out. If you do that, and you still want to do play by post, feel free to click on the Vethedar link in my signature - I run 3.5e D&D, in a dragon-heavy, points of light style of world. And I at least try not to completely cockblock my players, if I can help it.

[phoenixcire]

Proof positive. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl6A6zElR2k)

Man I love Lunar.

Kyle was my favorite Lunar character. Awesome.

[Totally Guy]

I had this problem one time in scence fiction. I was a gamber, hacker, pilot on a big low tech planet where we'd crashed.

I wasn't having fun until I started... having fun.

The AP (classless system) was awarded for fulfilling something in line with a character trait. The best one I had was a character flaw "Things don't go smooth" where plans I made tended to go wrong. From that point onwards I played up my tactical side and always suggested the (reasonable) plan to proceed. The DM would find a way to make this plan fail in line with the trait, it'd be very entertaining and I'd then be awarded points for it!

It wasn't so much sabotage, the plans were always sensible but the players didn't meta-game just to avoid my sensible course of action either. It was win win as I always felt that I'd added story to each session.

[Triaxx]

My advice? Quit. Just walk away, and find a new game and a new, hopefully less-biased DM. Chances are the old one will chase after you, figuratively speaking, and tell you they were just playing to your character, the loner/hermit. Ignore it.

[Totally Guy]

I saw something relevant.


Give a player a fish, and he’ll probably try to sell it to an NPC fisherman.

Teach a player to fish, and next week he’ll show up with the book, “The Complete Adventuring Fisherman”. He’ll start hunting for some monstrous leviathan to catch and enslave, and he’ll be dual-wielding two fishing poles.

[Subotei]

Man - I can't understand why I've been chosen for this mission - look, I'm a fisherman with no skills and we're 200 miles inland. What possible use am I (wink)? Who decided I should come along (wink, wink)? I could be killed so easily (wink, wink, wink). I think we should head in this direction (wink, wink, wink, wink). I have an idea....

[Flickerdart]

Man - I can't understand why I've been chosen for this mission - look, I'm a fisherman with no skills and we're 200 miles inland. What possible use am I (wink)? Who decided I should come along (wink, wink)? I could be killed so easily (wink, wink, wink). I think we should head in this direction (wink, wink, wink, wink). I have an idea....
Haha, good point. The players don't know the fisherman is just a fisherman, do they? For all they know, you just look pathetic, and are Master Fishguy, Master Of Fish-fu And Associate Magicks, PhD whose advice they should really follow. Oh, and protect you until your radiance decides to stoop down to the level of a mere mortal and obliterate their foes with but a wave.

[Teron]

Besides screwing your character specifically, the AP per post system is utterly absurd and unfair. Figuratively give the GM the finger and find a more sensible one; being able to do so easily is the primary advantage of playing online, after all.