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newbDM
2008-10-11, 01:12 AM
I am getting to the point in my first campaign, which is now about a year old, where the main plots and BBEGs are starting to "get serious". However, I feel that I have not made their presence, and/or intentions very lear (or should I say obvious?).

First off, I am trying to run a very "open" type of game. Basically, I am mapping out my whole Material World and it's Moons, and stating out all the populations and major NPCs of each settlement on them. I am trying to go for a MMORPG style feel, where players can literally go anyone and as I like to say "do anything your PCs feel like".

I have tried making it so that there are numerous plots happening simultaneously, both big and small, and the players are free to do as they feel. If they choose to not go that path, then the thing(s) happen wiithout their participation affecting the world as it may.

What I think I am doing wrong, though, is not properly leaking (or is the term hooking?) the PCs to the plots and motivations of the BBEG NPCs. Plus, I hate the whole cliche BBEG monologue, so I would love to go my whole gaming career without ever doing a BBEG speech.


So, can any of the experienced DMs here share their experiences and techniques?

Crow
2008-10-11, 01:50 AM
Well, usually the PC's aren't going to give a damn unless the BBEG's plan is either hurting them, or helping them (in which case, there may be someone trying to stop the BBEG which is disrupting the PC's gravy train).

Have the plan begin affecting your player's way of life, starting a little, and slowly growing. Eventually it will get so bad that they want to do something about it. If you just start dropping random hints and clues that don't affect them much, they will either go unnoticed, or unheeded.

But bear in mind, in a sandbox game, they may just decide to head off to new, less oppressive frontiers.

***All information above may only be applicable to my group and our playing style***

newbDM
2008-10-11, 02:07 AM
Well, usually the PC's aren't going to give a damn unless the BBEG's plan is either hurting them, or helping them (in which case, there may be someone trying to stop the BBEG which is disrupting the PC's gravy train).

Have the plan begin affecting your player's way of life, starting a little, and slowly growing. Eventually it will get so bad that they want to do something about it. If you just start dropping random hints and clues that don't affect them much, they will either go unnoticed, or unheeded.

But bear in mind, in a sandbox game, they may just decide to head off to new, less oppressive frontiers.

***All information above may only be applicable to my group and our playing style***


What is a sandbox game?

Totally Guy
2008-10-11, 02:30 AM
I am not using a big open world. I wanted to run a small closed world with urban adventurers and re-occurring characters. So I built my BBEG's plan around that concept.

Today's the day when they figure it out I reckon.

Here's the evil plan.

1)Teach some adventurers the Leomunds sectre chest ritual.
2)Teleport adventurers onto a small single city peninsulsa with a big treasure filled dungeon on it.
3)Destroy the pass allowing access to the mainland.
4)Destroy the docks allowing no ferries
5)Visit the wives and community centres where the adventurers hid their secret chest. Steal them back.
6)Wait for the adventurers to destroy the economy with the dungeon gold. They'll start sending it "home" instead of hoarding it.
7)Profit (and ruination of his enemy's town)

Of the adventurers the party have spoken to I think the Leomund's Secret chest ritual has been mentioned 3 times.
The adventurers have mentioned the BBEG (who sent them) by name once.
And they've mentioned the teleport circle, (how they arrived) once.
These are all different adventurers.
This session someone will state that pass has been destroyed.

There will be a meeting held by the adventurers to discuss the things they have in common but didn't ask. Hopefully the party can figure it out from there. When they do the BBEG is sitting comfortably at home with all his money miles away from any actual danger and the party need to find a way off the island before they can combat him.

Curmudgeon
2008-10-11, 02:38 AM
There are other avenues to have BBEG plans revealed, at least in pieces. Some henchmen can get drunk in a tavern and talk about secret doings, just a *bit* too loudly. Or the PCs can fight some small-time crooks, and have them surrender and offer information to be let go.

erikun
2008-10-11, 02:45 AM
http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/three-clue-rule.html

Basically, if you want to start being obvious, start being obvious. The BBEG doesn't need to announce his plan in town square for the PCs to find out about it, and nobody is capable of keeping track of everything that is happening with every plan they make. (The more and bigger the plans, the more stuff is not monitored.)

The most obvious way is to have one part of the BBEG's plan get right in the way of the PC's. When they (predictably) get rid of the problem, there's a copy of the plans in the base. Or directions to someplace for the PC's to visit, without really knowing what it's all about.

Also, "Sandbox game" = no PC plothooks, just a big world and stuff happening on its own, reguardless of it the PCs interact with it or not.

Zeful
2008-10-11, 02:45 AM
I am getting to the point in my first campaign, which is now about a year old, where the main plots and BBEGs are starting to "get serious". However, I feel that I have not made their presence, and/or intentions very lear (or should I say obvious?).

First off, I am trying to run a very "open" type of game. Basically, I am mapping out my whole Material World and it's Moons, and stating out all the populations and major NPCs of each settlement on them. I am trying to go for a MMORPG style feel, where players can literally go anyone and as I like to say "do anything your PCs feel like".

I have tried making it so that there are numerous plots happening simultaneously, both big and small, and the players are free to do as they feel. If they choose to not go that path, then the thing(s) happen wiithout their participation affecting the world as it may.

What I think I am doing wrong, though, is not properly leaking (or is the term hooking?) the PCs to the plots and motivations of the BBEG NPCs. Plus, I hate the whole cliche BBEG monologue, so I would love to go my whole gaming career without ever doing a BBEG speech.


So, can any of the experienced DMs here share their experiences and techniques?
If the PCs don't stop the BBEG then it's their fault the world/plane is now under his command/destroyed etc.

Triaxx
2008-10-11, 04:37 AM
Leave them notes. Seriously, the more the sub-plot is related to the BBEG, the more information in the note, the less related, less info. Eventually someone will put it all together.

newbDM
2008-10-11, 04:59 AM
Leave them notes. Seriously, the more the sub-plot is related to the BBEG, the more information in the note, the less related, less info. Eventually someone will put it all together.

As in written notes? How, and on/about what?

Thane of Fife
2008-10-11, 07:22 AM
1. A sandbox game is one in which the only thing really created is the world. I.E. You give the PCs the sandbox, and their actions more or less shape everything.

2. Ways to discover the BBEG's plans without evil monologue:

- Some other good guy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MrExposition) has found out about them and hires the PCs to put an end to the sinister schemes.

- Come up with a plot which is important to the BBEG's overarching scheme and shove the PCs into the middle of it (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitle123ut4ni5x96?from=Main.YouCantFightFate) (i.e. Set it in the next place they go and make sure they blunder into it somehow). PC being PCs, they probably make a mess of it, and earn the BBEG's everlasting enmity. After he starts sending assassins after them, they probably get mad, and once they start going after him, it's not that hard for them to discover his plans - they can find a journal, capture and question an underling, discover the prophecy that the BBEG is relying on, or whatever.

NephandiMan
2008-10-11, 12:58 PM
As in written notes? How, and on/about what?

Apocalyptic Logs (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ApocalypticLog) - tailored to fit the specifics of your campaign - are always fun. If the PCs find written scraps in places that the Big Bad has already ravaged, that allows them the fun of putting the pieces together for themselves, and can send a shiver up their spines as they realize just how bad things will go if they don't step in. Examples aplenty can be found at the link I provided.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-10-11, 01:06 PM
By having the plot actually have an effect on the world.

"Gee, someone seems to be organizing the normally disparate goblinoids of the Goblin Marches into an army of skirmishing bands. Wowee, we found a mysterious human mercenary training some of them! I wonder what's going on? Oh, cool, he actually knows who his employer is..."

"How strange, someone is abducting all the children in the area! What's that, wise scholar? You say this sounds like a ritual described in a lost book that a band of hardy adventurers might recover? Okey-dokey. Well, I'll be - turns out this is a ritual for summoning a demon lord into the world..."

"Dear me, who could have had a motive to assassinate this minor noble? What's that, convenient family member? You say he was involved in what? Who else is involved in that?"

And so on.


This is a completely different matter to motivating the players/PCs. The easy way to do that is to make things personal. In my experience, players will go to any lengths to avenge stuff like being imprisoned or having their equipment stolen. Another easy way is to tie the PCs to the world through other NPCs - family, friends, allies, employers.

Dentarthur
2008-10-11, 01:30 PM
I like the "leaving notes" tactic. If your players are going after any kind of organization of intelligent beings, it makes sense that they'll find some correspondence that gives away important info. For example, I'm running a campaign where the PCs are hunting down a family of necromancers. Each time they get somebody, they find a letter or two from Granddaddy which discusses the goings-on of some of the other members of the family, either giving a clue to where they are or telling it outright.

Course, it's all part of Granddaddy's plan to make these poor saps eliminate his ungrateful heirs for him, since he doesn't need them now that he's undead and plans to exist forever. So they're actually helping him. I want the players to personally hate this guy as much as possible.

(/me hopes his players don't read this forum)