PDA

View Full Version : Suggestions For a Dwarf Engineer



kentma57
2008-10-12, 10:43 PM
I am working on a 2nd level Dwarven Engineer(fighter 2) any suggestion?

ep: prestige classes, feats, equipment, books...

Flickerdart
2008-10-12, 11:02 PM
Why oh why would you use a class that gives you 2 skill points and no useful class features as an engineer? An Artificer would suit you a lot better.

Mr.Bookworm
2008-10-12, 11:05 PM
Why oh why would you use a class that gives you 2 skill points and no useful class features as an engineer? An Artificer would suit you a lot better.

*seconds*

Artificers are the best class for inventors, hands down.

kentma57
2008-10-12, 11:10 PM
He dosen't do magic(and it looks like he will be the tank of the party) but with 16 int he can run a mine, a forge and produce masterwork weapons/armour.

erikun
2008-10-12, 11:13 PM
Disable Device, Knowledge: Engineering, and Open Lock are probably the best "engineering" skills available; the Nimble Fingers feat grants a +2 to Disable Device and Open Lock. For classes, you're probably looking at Rogue, Artificer, or the Maester/Effigy Master prestige classes.

<edit>
I've always been partial to the Dwarven Fighter 1/Rogue X class. Backstabbing people with Waraxes is fun!

Dervag
2008-10-12, 11:14 PM
But there must be some class that models an engineer better than "fighter." If he's a fighter, his intelligence has to offset a huge handicap in skill points, and none of his class features will make him a better engineer.

kentma57
2008-10-12, 11:15 PM
Disable Device, Knowledge: Engineering, and Open Lock are probably the best "engineering" skills available; the Nimble Fingers feat grants a +2 to Disable Device and Open Lock. For classes, you're probably looking at Rogue, Artificer, or the Maester/Effigy Master prestige classes.

Never heard of those prestige classes before...


But there must be some class that models an engineer better than "fighter." If he's a fighter, his intelligence has to offset a huge handicap in skill points, and none of his class features will make him a better engineer.

The feats help.

erikun
2008-10-12, 11:20 PM
Never heard of those prestige classes before...
Effigy Master is in Complete Arcane; it's a spellcaster that allows you to create Effigies (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ca_gallery/85481.jpg), which are basically clockwork constructs.

Maester is in Complete Adventurer, and it's another spellcaster that allows you to create magical items quicker. Sorry, I didn't see the "no spellcasting" bit before I posted.

Complete Adventurer does have the Dungeon Delver (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cx_gallery/86356.jpg), which is a rogue variant. I don't quite recall what it's abilities are, but perhaps it's what you're looking for?

Oracle_Hunter
2008-10-12, 11:25 PM
Definitely go Dwarven Rogue, with high INT. That gives you access to Craft, Disable Device, Search, and Appraise - all of which, I think, are probably good for your standard Engineering needs.

IIRC there's a skill-monkey PrC in Complete Adventurer you might like. I don't think it's a magic user... is it Exemplar, maybe? :smallconfused:

kentma57
2008-10-12, 11:28 PM
Exemplar(mining) :smallbiggrin: I will impress people with my ability to dig holes.

Ponce
2008-10-13, 12:01 AM
You can try feat rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue) to get rogue skillery and fighter featery if you really want it.

revolver kobold
2008-10-13, 12:11 AM
Definitely go Dwarven Rogue, with high INT. That gives you access to Craft, Disable Device, Search, and Appraise - all of which, I think, are probably good for your standard Engineering needs.

IIRC there's a skill-monkey PrC in Complete Adventurer you might like. I don't think it's a magic user... is it Exemplar, maybe? :smallconfused:

I believe a Dragon Magazine had some racial sub levels for a Dwarven Rogue, which gave you extra damage against structues rather than sneak attack.

Also seconding the Exemplar, it can make for some excellent skill based characters.

Oracle_Hunter
2008-10-13, 12:17 AM
I believe a Dragon Magazine had some racial sub levels for a Dwarven Rogue, which gave you extra damage against structues rather than sneak attack.

Also seconding the Exemplar, it can make for some excellent skill based characters.

See, what I'm thinking here is he wants to make a Dwarven Scientist like I tried to build for a Ptolus game I was in. Originally I made him a Wizard for free access to all Knowledge Skills, but a Rogue works much better (needz moar skillpoints!). Dwarves have bonuses to some craft skills, which is good, and a Rogue will have the high Dex needed to get the most out of firearms.

I wish I could recall exactly what an Exemplar does... but it was definitely the most skill-monkey PrC out there.

Say, OP - why do you want to be a Dwarven Engineer? And what was with the Fighter base class?

revolver kobold
2008-10-13, 12:31 AM
@ Oracle:

Exemplar gives you a ridiculous amount of skill points per level, every skill in the game, and with a selection of skills allows you to take 10 even when threatened, or use Perform checks in place of a Diplomacy check.

They can also take a penalty on their own skill check to give their allies a boost to their attempt.

A Dwarven Rogue/Exemplar could have massive ranks in Architecture and Demolition, leveling a castle with ease. All while winning the enemies hearts over by playing the bagpipes.

Epinephrine
2008-10-13, 07:11 AM
I'll second the Feat Rogue approach, that's what my dwarven sapper/commando type is. Lots of skill points, lots of feats.

Sebastian
2008-10-13, 07:50 AM
But there must be some class that models an engineer better than "fighter."

Of course there is. It is called "Expert" :)

Seriously, take an above average INT (14+) , 2-3 levels of experts, and you are good, IMHO.
Maybe use that 3ed option to get 2 class at 1st level and start with a fighter/expert for the extra skill without losing too much in combat potential.

Iku Rex
2008-10-13, 07:51 AM
The Apprentice (Craftsman) feat from DMGII would be a good flavor addition.

You may like the Battlesmith PrC from Races of Stone. Uses a hammer, wants high Wis.

I'd go for an heavy armor/extreme shield (RacSto) dwarven fighter tank.

Rad
2008-10-13, 08:27 AM
Factotum would also be viable class with the necessary skill points if you don't like SA.

kentma57
2008-10-13, 09:16 AM
Well that feat rogue does look nice, but it will hamper my ability to tank for the party... to bad for them, I won't drop a fun concept(by the way most of the story will take place in the ruins of huge castle) just because they all want to be casters.

ps: what about the Fighter Variant, Thug?

BRC
2008-10-13, 09:21 AM
Well that feat rogue does look nice, but it will hamper my ability to tank for the party... to bad for them, I won't drop a fun concept(by the way most of the story will take place in the ruins of huge castle) just because they all want to be casters.

Pump your Dex enough and a Rogue can make a fine tank, especially because evasion means you can dodge things like Fireball.

Also, Tanking in DnD dosn't work as well as people think, in anything but a 5ft wide corridor, a single tank just won't cut it in most situations.
Besides, if they are all casters, you shouldn't have a problem getting things for the enemy to hit on, thats what illusions/summoned monsters are for.

kentma57
2008-10-13, 10:01 AM
Pump your Dex enough and a Rogue can make a fine tank, especially because evasion means you can dodge things like Fireball.

Also, Tanking in DnD dosn't work as well as people think, in anything but a 5ft wide corridor, a single tank just won't cut it in most situations.
Besides, if they are all casters, you shouldn't have a problem getting things for the enemy to hit on, thats what illusions/summoned monsters are for.

Good points(though I where heavy armour) they I am sure they can handle themselves.

BRC
2008-10-13, 10:35 AM
Good points(though I where heavy armour) they I am sure they can handle themselves.
If you want heavy armor, I would reccomend this
1st level: Rogue (More skill points)
2nd level: Fighter (for proficiencies)
Levels afterwards: Rogue, exemplar, ect.

kentma57
2008-10-13, 10:51 AM
hmm... actualy I think I have settled on Expert at first level(for the ability to pick my class skills, and all the skill points) followed by fighter at level 2(for hp, bab, and proficiencies) and since I am level 2 now I don't have to think about more until after I have had a chance to look at what my party can do.

ps: the problem with the rogue was lack of knowledge skills.

BRC
2008-10-13, 10:52 AM
hmm... actualy I think I have settled on Exemplar at first level(for the ability to pick my class skills, and all the skill points) followed by fighter at level 2(for hp, bab, and proficiencies) and since I am level 2 now I don't have to think about more until after I have had a chance to look at what my party can do.

ps: the problem with the rogue was lack of knowledge skills.

Very well, you were mostly going Rogue for the skills anyway, so this works well.

kentma57
2008-10-13, 10:57 AM
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=86228

Chronos
2008-10-13, 11:20 AM
Factotum would also be viable class with the necessary skill points if you don't like SA.That's what I was going to suggest. Not only do they have the skills needed (like Exemplar, they have all skills as class skills), but they get to use their Int mod for all sorts of things, including some combat applications. They do get a very limited spellcasting ability, but you could just use that for non-obvious spells that you could fluff off as application of specialized knowledge, or just ignore it completely and still have a strong class.


hmm... actualy I think I have settled on Exemplar at first level(for the ability to pick my class skills, and all the skill points)Exemplar is a prestige class, not base, and requires 13 ranks in a skill to get in, so you can't take it until after 10th level. If you meant "expert" there, it's not bad for an NPC class, but Factotum absolutely blows it away in every way.

Kaiyanwang
2008-10-13, 12:45 PM
Maybe is may past life of Warhammer player, but if I think a Dwarf Engineer, i think about Siege Engines*. Their usefulness depends from the campaing.. but if you like the idea and the ones in the DMG aren't enought, in Heroes of Battle you can find a lot of them. In Stormwrack there are some nice, too.

Is allowed in you campaign gunpodwer? Always thinking about a Warhamer Dwarf, not a Tolkien Dwarf, anyway. DMG has a lot of things, and/or you could refluff the alchemical eggshell granades from Oriental Adventures.

In player's guide to faerun should be hidden traps in the weapons (maybe I'm wrong, but are in a splatbook). Think about mechanical hidden weapons in Complete Scoundrel, they are enough "engineerish".

Anyway, consider seriuosly the Artificer. You could keep the flavour and link the skills with a whole class. A class able to make your cannons magic (Thayan bombard, anyone?) and to look for a vehicle construction, later. It depends from the campaing, anyway..


*My chaos warriors paid a big tribute each battle :smallfrown:

kentma57
2008-10-13, 01:06 PM
Exemplar is a prestige class, not base, and requires 13 ranks in a skill to get in, so you can't take it until after 10th level. If you meant "expert" there, it's not bad for an NPC class, but Factotum absolutely blows it away in every way.

Sorry I meant expert.

Telonius
2008-10-13, 01:26 PM
Characterization suggestion: Scotty from Star Trek. :smallbiggrin: