[3.5E Feat] Sniper

[Eldariel]

I'm so ****ing tired of every archer ever always going for full attacks. In tactical combat sitiuations, one accurate shot should be just as good as bunch of sloppy shots, if not even better. However, since the fact is that you gain literally nothing by only making one attack instead of 5-6, it doesn't take a jeniuz to figure that every archer worth their weight is always going to shoot a bunch of arrows instead of one and moving, for example (exception: Manyshot Skirmishers... They fire a bunch of arrows as a standard action, so they can move and shoot a lot...yea, right).

Therefore, I'm trying to remedy this. I present unto thee:

"Sniper [Tactical Feat] - Requires BAB +6, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot

Sharpshooter: Whenever making a full attack action with a bow, if you forego all your other attacks and suffer of no concealment or cover relative to your target (such as thanks to the effects of Improved Precise Shot), you gain bonus to the attack roll equal to the number of iteratives you would normally have (BAB 6 = +1, BAB 11 = +2, BAB 16 = +3). You attack automatically threatens critical. Your critical multiplier is increased by the following chart:
BAB 6 = +1
BAB 11 = +3
BAB 16 = +5

Mobile Archer: Whenever making a single attack as a Standard Action with a bow and suffer of no concealment or cover relative to your target (such as thanks to the effects of Improved Precise Shot), you gain bonus to attack roll equal to the number of iteratives you would normally have (as above). Your attack automatically threatens critical. Your critical multiplier is increased by the following chart:
BAB 11 = +1
BAB 16 = +3

Keen-Eyed: If you would deal a critical hit with a bow to a creature that's normally immune to critical hits, you instead subtract one from the critical multiplier and then resolve the critical as per normal. Every creature has a weak point, even Oozes."


Note that this is balanced vs. a game where you may do all but one iterative as a Standard Action and all your iteratives are done at -5 instead of incremential penalties. That said, I see little reason to allow this in a normal game - at least you've got a reason to shoot and move instead of always sitting in the same place full attacking.

Any ideas how to make the abilities useful without making them so...absolute? I sort of dislike making the attacks "automatically threaten" and "automatically succeed on normally crit-immunes", but that's the only way I can find to make Sniping actually worthwhile.

[TheGrimace]

I do believe sharp shooter and mobile archer are identical except for two details.

multiplier is less, and standard action instead.

Also, This wont really solve your problem, as those artillery characters are looking for high damage, and your feats only grant that if they happen to score a critical.

Not a bad feat, one I would take specifically for keen eyed, but it doesn't quite do what you want it to.

[AstralFire]

At a glance, seems like a neat solution that doesn't require double-checking a homebrew archery ToB discipline. 7-8x damage with one shot is pretty nice.

[Baron Corm]

Flavor it so that your archer is shooting one shot but dealing the damage of multiple? Take levels in rogue so that well-placed shots deal extra damage?

The feats you have are way overpowered. +3 attack and automatic critical AND hugely increased multiplier? Have you compared that to any existing feats? Maybe if you made it a chain of feats it would be better, but not all in one. Also, I don't see why any "focus" feats like this couldn't be applied to melee weapons as well.

[Eldariel]

Overpowered? Instead of doing 5-6 (3-4 normal + Rapid Shot + Haste) and applying all sorts of elementals, precision and so on on multiple hits, you shoot one multiplying attack? How is that broken? Instead of having 5-6 attacks to hit with at lower bonuses, you'll need to hit twice to deal real damage (albeit at bonuses). How is that broken?

Seriously, how is it broken to any degree? Seems like it just offers an alternative to those who don't want every decent archer to be a ****ing machine gun, but instead really accurate. Rogue-levels again are ironically optimized by gaining as many shots as possible instead of shooting as well as possible. That's what I want to address - maybe I'd want to allow precision on multipliers or something.

[DracoDei]

and automatic critical

Maybe he changed it, but it is only an automatic THREAT... not an automatic critical.

[AstralFire]

No, that is the original version. Of course, at high levels that's virtually the same thing.

[Zeful]

Any ideas how to make the abilities useful without making them so...absolute? I sort of dislike making the attacks "automatically threaten" and "automatically succeed on normally crit-immunes", but that's the only way I can find to make Sniping actually worthwhile.

I made a sniper feat that allowed rogues to use there sneak attack dice at full range as well as gave a bonus to hit and damage as long as they took a full-round action to shoot one arrow. So hitting something from 3/5 a mile away (composite longbow+Distance+Far Shot (110x2x1.5x10=3300ft away)) with sneak attack is possible. Of course to actually see that you'd need to roll a spot check roughly around DC330-335 (+1 to DC for every 10ft between you and your target (+330), against a target standing in an empty field in bright colors DC0-5) so you can't actually make that shot until epic levels but...

[Baron Corm]

Overpowered? Instead of doing 5-6 (3-4 normal + Rapid Shot + Haste) and applying all sorts of elementals, precision and so on on multiple hits, you shoot one multiplying attack? How is that broken? Instead of having 5-6 attacks to hit with at lower bonuses, you'll need to hit twice to deal real damage (albeit at bonuses). How is that broken?

Seriously, how is it broken to any degree? Seems like it just offers an alternative to those who don't want every decent archer to be a ****ing machine gun, but instead really accurate. Rogue-levels again are ironically optimized by gaining as many shots as possible instead of shooting as well as possible. That's what I want to address - maybe I'd want to allow precision on multipliers or something.

First of all, calm down, you seem to be really angry at people who play these kinds of archers, maybe it's a separate issue. I see no realism problems with it if you change the flavor, or realize that iterative attacks represent an abstract concept anyway.

Second of all, you're still getting 8x damage at full attack bonus and then some vs 6x (with haste from somewhere) damage with 4 of the attacks at 10 less attack bonus and 2 of them at 5 less. Most "elemental burst" type things give you a greater amount based on your multiplier, which would be greater than multiple attacks which didn't critical.

I still think it would be fine if you separated it into multiple feats. The BAB +6, +11, and +16 ones being three separate feats, and the one about being able to crit anything a fourth feat. You could probably lump the standard action aspect into the +11 and +16 feats. Your houserules seem to be high-powered though, and maybe you have other high-powered things in your campaign, so it is hard for me to really judge the balance, but that is my critique *shrug*.

Also, what are your thoughts on allowing it for melee characters?


Maybe he changed it, but it is only an automatic THREAT... not an automatic critical.

Yeah, true, but it doesn't really change the rest of what I said. If you couldn't confirm it with your greater attack bonus in this style, you definitely wouldn't be able to hit with rapidshot style.

[Eldariel]

I made a sniper feat that allowed rogues to use there sneak attack dice at full range as well as gave a bonus to hit and damage as long as they took a full-round action to shoot one arrow. So hitting something from 3/5 a mile away (composite longbow+Distance+Far Shot (110x2x1.5x10=3300ft away)) with sneak attack is possible. Of course to actually see that you'd need to roll a spot check roughly around DC330-335 (+1 to DC for every 10ft between you and your target (+330), against a target standing in an empty field in bright colors DC0-5) so you can't actually make that shot until epic levels but...

That seems interesting. Cragtop Archer could actually, with enough cheese, make those skillchecks on 20 (you only need to beat DC 175 Spot - yea, you need the whole Switzerland for that).


First of all, calm down, you seem to be really angry at people who play these kinds of archers, maybe it's a separate issue. I see no realism problems with it if you change the flavor, or realize that iterative attacks represent an abstract concept anyway.

The issue is the game, which shoehorns you into some position. And really, there's only so abstract I'm willing to go. Rapid Shot means I shoot faster...reflavouring that is just "eww". Angry? I guess I did use power words unnecessarily. What can I say, I'm a Wizard?


Second of all, you're still getting 8x damage at full attack bonus and then some vs 6x (with haste from somewhere) damage with 4 of the attacks at 10 less attack bonus and 2 of them at 5 less. Most "elemental burst" type things give you a greater amount based on your multiplier, which would be greater than multiple attacks which didn't critical.

I still think it would be fine if you separated it into multiple feats. The BAB +6, +11, and +16 ones being three separate feats, and the one about being able to crit anything a fourth feat. You could probably lump the standard action aspect into the +11 and +16 feats. Your houserules seem to be high-powered though, and maybe you have other high-powered things in your campaign, so it is hard for me to really judge the balance, but that is my critique *shrug*.

Also, what are your thoughts on allowing it for melee characters?

I think it makes more sense for melee characters to attack multiple times and only be able to coup de grace helpless opponents. Bow is different though - if you shoot well enough, it doesn't matter how well they defend themselves. You're going to make a lethal hit.

As for the damage calculations, X Burst-abilities cost +2. Elementals cost +1. So two elementals = 1 burst. One x8 Elemental Burst deals 1d6+8d10 damage. 6 shots from a bow with two Elemental-traits deals 12d6 damage. They're almost the same - 47.5 vs. 42.

Now keep in mind that you need to succeed on two attack rolls to get real damage in. Generally you get solid damage for every attack roll you succeed, and criticals are just a boon (although out of 6 attacks, you've actually got a decent chance to crit at least once - 27.5% with crits on 20 only, around 50% with 19-20 bow). A volley of shots applies your Skirmish, Sneak Attack and such multiple times though, still leaving it ahead in the damage output.

I tried to write the feat out so that it would be worth using. I mean, you already spend a feat to gain abilities - those abilities should make you better, not worse. In essence, what this feat really grants is the bonus to attack rolls. The multiplier comes out at about the same result as making a full attack.

Regarding the houserule I mentioned, it's just to make mobile combat more doable - you may make a normal full attack minus one iterative as a standard action, and you make your iteratives at Full-5, instead of bigger penalties. This means you aren't horribly penalized for moving while fighting and it makes the additional attacks fighter types get worth using as they hit on something other than 20.


Yeah, true, but it doesn't really change the rest of what I said. If you couldn't confirm it with your greater attack bonus in this style, you definitely wouldn't be able to hit with rapidshot style.

Well, with two dice, there's a big risk that one of them falls in the 1-5 range and at that point, you're unlikely to hit/confirm. This means it's a very risky move - making two rolls is hard no matter how you slice it. On the other hand, with 6 rolls, you've got plenty of room to punt rolls and still deal significant damage.

[Stycotl]

nifty idea. but i still think that the best answer to this dilemma is the tome of battle applied to ranged attacks.