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Thurbane
2008-10-15, 06:45 AM
Hi all,

I was just wondering: which of the following classes do you think would make the best gestalt: Wizard, Archivist, Factotum, Beguiler...

Jack_Simth
2008-10-15, 07:02 AM
Hi all,

I was just wondering: which of the following classes do you think would make the best gestalt: Wizard, Archivist, Factotum, Beguiler...
Depends on what's on the other side, and the rest of the party makeup.

For instance, the Factotum is mostly a skillmonkey with secondary casting... but does pick up the nifty of additional actions, which goes very, very well with a high-endurance caster such as the Favored Soul, Sorcerer, or Beguiler

Smeggedoff
2008-10-15, 07:37 AM
Wizard//Archivist isn't too tough but means you have access to almost every spell in the game (I beleive Bard, is the only missing list)

Medic
2008-10-15, 07:39 AM
don't do wizard//Archivist!

The spell book management is horrible :(

Burley
2008-10-15, 07:46 AM
Wizard//Archivist isn't too tough but means you have access to almost every spell in the game (I beleive Bard, is the only missing list)

And Durid spells, and Ranger spells, and WuJen spells, and Sorcerer only spells, and quite a few other class specific spells.

Wizard//Archivist is a more than pretty decent. It allows for a lot of craps to happen. A lot of craps.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-10-15, 08:13 AM
Typical Gestalt builds run along the lines of "Base class20/Base clas/PrC1/PrC2/OMFGoptimized PRC3...". As such each of the classes are useful to have in a gestalt build.

Beguiler is a great 'base20' class. It grants useful abilities consistantly that are tough to get through PrCing. It also grants 8 skillpoints/level, which grants skillmonkey ability to any Gestalt build, along with Trapfinding. Furthermore, the concentration on Illusion and Enchantment spells give you some 'save or loose' ability.

Wiz and Archivist both do very well on the "base class/Prc/Prc/PrC..." side of things. Neither one gets really spectacular base class abilities other than spellcasting, so it is entirely in your best interests to PrC as quickly as you can. For this reason, a Wiz/Archivist is a poor choice.

Factorum is a joker in Gestalting. Extra actions are obscenely good in a Gestalt campaign, allowing you to truely get as many actions as two different characters. However, that's about all it does. It's good for a dip for extra actions, but not as any basis for a Gestalt build.

Smeggedoff
2008-10-15, 08:27 AM
And Durid spells, and Ranger spells, and WuJen spells, and Sorcerer only spells, and quite a few other class specific spells.

Wizard//Archivist is a more than pretty decent. It allows for a lot of craps to happen. A lot of craps.

I beleive Durid and ranger spells fall under the purview of divine magic, which an archivist can learn
you've got me with wu-jen and sorcer only spells though

Break
2008-10-15, 10:11 AM
Actually, an Archivist can pick up the Bard list as well if the Divine Bard variant is allowed.

Don't forget the adept list, which has a few normally-arcane spells in there.

Jack Zander
2008-10-15, 10:18 AM
What's this durid everyone keeps talking about?

Chronos
2008-10-15, 11:08 AM
He's in the same book as the factorum and the rouge.


Factorum is a joker in Gestalting. Extra actions are obscenely good in a Gestalt campaign, allowing you to truely get as many actions as two different characters. However, that's about all it does. It's good for a dip for extra actions, but not as any basis for a Gestalt build.Actually, factotum does a lot of other things, too. It gives you six skillpoints per level (same as the Beguiler), the best class skill list possible, and a bunch of ways to use your Int bonus (initiative, saves, AC, attack rolls, etc.). It makes a great other side to any Int-based caster (wizard, archivist, or beguiler).

Starsinger
2008-10-15, 11:14 AM
sorcer only spells though

... *blink* What? Those exist?

Smeggedoff
2008-10-15, 11:16 AM
What's this durid everyone keeps talking about?

Cat Durid is 4 Fite! (http://www.wowwiki.com/Alamo) :smallbiggrin:
...:smallsmile:
...:smallredface:
sorry:smallfrown:

Glimbur
2008-10-15, 11:44 AM
... *blink* What? Those exist?

Races of the Dragon stuff, iirc. Stuff like Wings of Cover and Wings of Flurry. The latter is often regarded as good due to selective area effect, uncapped CL dice of damage, and a daze effect.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-15, 11:47 AM
... *blink* What? Those exist?Wings of Cover, for one, which is obscenely good.

Generally in Gestalt you want to end up with one side with a lot of passive bonuses(High BAB/HP/Saves/Skills/always-on abilities) and one side with full casting. Your biggest limit past about 3rd level is actions, so you don't want 2 classes that take actions to do stuff. Monk is a decent choice, if you have something good on the other side. Factotem rocks, especially when paired with a Warblade, Wizard, or similar, because beyond it's skills and fun Int-to-everything abilities, it gives you bonus actions. Bonus actions rock hard in Gestalt.

sonofzeal
2008-10-15, 12:08 PM
Actually, an Archivist can pick up the Bard list as well if the Divine Bard variant is allowed.

Don't forget the adept list, which has a few normally-arcane spells in there.
Also the Cleric Domain lists.... and if your DM includes the Generic classes from UA, well that's basically everything right there.

Burley
2008-10-15, 12:43 PM
Before I add anything else, Sorry for being silly and typing Durid. I'm silly.

On topic, my personal favorite when gestalting is getting something that does precision damage and finding a class on the other side that increases the frequency at which that damage applies. Pounce Barbaian//Scout is a good example. Warlock//Rogue is another, with Rogue//Wizard (conjuration and illusion focuses) following in the same vein.

Also, especially in Gestalt when there are probably going to be more difficult and lengthy fights, I like having something with longevity. Warlock//Fighter could be a really fun one, since it can focus on that Eldritch Glaive with the fighter feats and... I'm going to go make a villain now. Bye.

Starsinger
2008-10-15, 01:22 PM
Races of the Dragon stuff, iirc. Stuff like Wings of Cover and Wings of Flurry. The latter is often regarded as good due to selective area effect, uncapped CL dice of damage, and a daze effect.

.... oh right. Sorcerers = Dragons :smallsigh: still it's neat to know that there's Sorcerer only spells.

AmberVael
2008-10-15, 02:25 PM
.... oh right. Sorcerers = Dragons :smallsigh: still it's neat to know that there's Sorcerer only spells.

Don't forget Arcane Fusion! (possibly my favorite spell EVER).

Temp.
2008-10-15, 04:33 PM
Archivist is flexible enough to cover just about any role imaginable. I have a hard time resisting the urge to pair it with Eternal Blade and Knowledge Devotion in every gestalt game I play.

Factotum, as has been said before, gestalts very well, especially when Font of Inspiration is permited.

Wizard is good, even if I prefer Archivist. It also has much better splatbook support.

Beguiler I don't like for some reason. It just doesn't mesh well with other classes--it has little to offer or gain frommelee classes, primary spellcasters or other skillmonkeys. Incarnum mixes well with it, but there isn't much else.

namo
2008-10-15, 05:40 PM
Factotum//Archivist if your DM allow Archivist to access all lists it is allowed by the rules to access (clerical domains, druid, paladin...). You'll get all good saves, 3/4 BAB, the Factotum SLAs to nab the few interesting arcane spells you can't get as an Archivist, Dark Knowledge, extra actions...