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newbDM
2008-10-15, 09:24 PM
I am falling in love with Spelljammer from just reading about it on wikipedia. I have even just bought a copy of the Dungeon's & Dragons Spelljammer Adventures in Space Set from ebay in the hopes that I can finally figure out how to convert/transfer from 1ed/2ed to 3ed.

Since, from what I understand, it treats all the settings as spheres on a single plane it actually works quite well for my mutliverse since I had already houseruled all the official settings, some 3rd party settings, and my homebrewed world into different earth-like "Material Worlds" on my Material Plane. I was even thinking about how I would make ship travel across these places and the two moons of my homebrewed world. I had thought the Mind Flayer ships in Lords of Madness would be the only option.


Can any of the older players here please give me some advice, tips, etc about this setting?

Can anyone who has done it, please tell me how you can incorporate this setting, or as I am thinking about it "another dimension to the planes/worlds", into my existing campaign? Right now I am running my first campaign, which I am trying to piece together as the games go into "My setting" in the hopes that I will set the foundation for a world/multiverse which I will hopefully use for many games/groups/years to come. So I want to makes this all nice and right.

Oh, and does anyone know how to incorporate the elemental/inner planes and the outer planes into this? I also want to make it so travel between the planets/spheres is restricted to ships (what was the term for spelljammer ships again?), and not as easy as jumping to inner/outer plane x and then shifting back to the Material Plane but to a different world, if this is at all possible to work out somehow. I guess some things like purposefully hard to find astral plane portals and such would also be OK, but again I would like the ships to be the main form of travel, so I need a way to seriously limit other ways of just plane hopping a bit while still keeping the 3.x cosmology I like so much.


Also, I would REALLY appreciate some advice for how to convert all this (I assume complicated) material to 3.5. I saw the semi-"official" spelljammer site, but it seemed to seriously lack any form of fluff or background. Plus, I believe some of the links are broken, and that the whole site might even by abandoned, so I have the feeling things are not complete there and some things might have been lost. And again, it seems to lack fluff and background on the setting, so I believe that I will need to find and buy those old books anyway (was this intentional?). Also, If someone knows how to save whole webpages, please let me know, because I want to save what is there before it disappears for good.


And if you oldies just want to talk about this old setting, reminisce of old times/games, or just want to say something about it please do! All that stuff often gives me both inspiration and ideas.


edit:

p.s. One of my players owns his own little fleet of ships, and the party is often traveling around my homebrewed world on a galley they/he owns, so I think it might be a fun treat for them to be able to convert it (and maybe the whole fleet) into jamming ships (was that the term?). Was this posible in the rules? Heck, the PC/player even named it the Galaxia, so I almost feel like fate had intended for this.

There is even a recently ruined civilization of humans (they are near extinct in my "setting") which was working on two FF5 styled flying ships before they fell. One of the PCs is directly tied to this fluff wise, and I have been planning for when/if he decides to go searching for the ship he knew about (currently in the city's ruins under a bunker). The players have even flown in the second ship, which was salvaged and is being used by a major NPC (a former PC of mine), although he doesn't knwo the history/significance of it. Maybe this could be a good/convenient way to introduce this world to jamming/space travel? I eblieve I read that world with little/no space travel, contact with the jamming community, or trade with other worlds were cosnidered "worldies" or soemthing similar and were considered primitive and isolated. If this is true, would this be a convenient way of explaining why this is suddenly new, and maybe have the PCs introduce this world to the space/jammer community? Maybe even have give the possible option/quest for the one PC's fleet to be the first trade ships from this world (and possibly make him rich in the process)?

Idea Man
2008-10-15, 09:44 PM
Wow, Spelljammer. I didn't think anybody looked at that stuff anymore. :smallbiggrin:

Don't have any tips on conversion per se, though I would reccomend having an NPC spellcaster running the jamming helm until you hammer out the rules. Boarding and broadsides are always more entertaining than ship vs. ship manuvers. A good deal of the Spelljammer races are already converted for 3.5, and a few of the humanoids that aren't are in a dragon magazine somewhere.

As I understood the cosmology, the elemental/astral/outer planes are not accessable with spelljammer ships (unless you actually find a magic portal big enough to take one). It kept the other planes seperate from the mortals fooling around between the stars.

Personally, I always enjoyed Spelljammer's concept, but my other gaming buddies wouldn't touch that stuff with a regulation 10 foot pole.

Of course, now I want to throw a spelljamming ship into my campaign. :smalltongue:

Isit
2008-10-15, 10:26 PM
I have been running a Spelljammer campaign for a while now and I have found it to be a lot of fun. Spelljammer.org has a collection of websites that have fluff material on them. You can find a bunch of them here:
http://lost.spelljammer.org/

Some I have found particularly helpful are:
http://www.andycollins.net/Projects/Spelljammer/Spelljammer.htm
http://lost.spelljammer.org/ShatteredFractine/
http://lost.spelljammer.org/AhzadJinsai/Spheres/Spheres.html

As to the fleet, within the spelljammer rules almost any ship can become a spelljammer if you attach a helm to it so if you could find enough helms you could have the entire fleet converted.

For connecting the planes you may find these links helpful:
http://www.spelljammer.org/essays/variants/TransitPlaneSJ.html
http://sjml.spelljammer.org/archive/leicester/199409/14-022128.html

You might also check the spelljammer forums at the piazza for more links and information:
http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewforum.php?f=1

If you use firefox you can use the spiderzilla plugin to download websites, which is something that I have done with most of the Spelljammer stuff :)
http://spiderzilla.mozdev.org/

I would strongly recomend getting your hands on the books to the extent that you can. They all have pretty good ideas in them, particularly the core rulebooks and some of the adventures that present different spheres.

I hope some of that is helpful to you. :)

newbDM
2008-10-15, 10:46 PM
I have been running a Spelljammer campaign for a while now and I have found it to be a lot of fun. Spelljammer.org has a collection of websites that have fluff material on them. You can find a bunch of them here:
http://lost.spelljammer.org/

Some I have found particularly helpful are:
http://www.andycollins.net/Projects/Spelljammer/Spelljammer.htm
http://lost.spelljammer.org/ShatteredFractine/
http://lost.spelljammer.org/AhzadJinsai/Spheres/Spheres.html

As to the fleet, within the spelljammer rules almost any ship can become a spelljammer if you attach a helm to it so if you could find enough helms you could have the entire fleet converted.

For connecting the planes you may find these links helpful:
http://www.spelljammer.org/essays/variants/TransitPlaneSJ.html
http://sjml.spelljammer.org/archive/leicester/199409/14-022128.html

You might also check the spelljammer forums at the piazza for more links and information:
http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewforum.php?f=1

If you use firefox you can use the spiderzilla plugin to download websites, which is something that I have done with most of the Spelljammer stuff :)
http://spiderzilla.mozdev.org/

I would strongly recomend getting your hands on the books to the extent that you can. They all have pretty good ideas in them, particularly the core rulebooks and some of the adventures that present different spheres.

I hope some of that is helpful to you. :)


Thank you very much for all those links and information. A lot of reading but hopefully it will be worth it.

However, sadly that program for saving sites doesn't work for Macs. It does, but it is way to complicated for me to do.

newbDM
2008-10-15, 11:02 PM
Wow, Spelljammer. I didn't think anybody looked at that stuff anymore. :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, although I am too young to have been able to play the older editions, I feel like I missed out on the real D&D games. The fantasy from that age (not just in D&D) just seemed more "epic" and original/awesome/etc. Plus I really like what little I know of the fluff from the older editions. I just wish I could figure out the whole converting process for the mechanics, though. :smallfrown:



Don't have any tips on conversion per se, though I would reccomend having an NPC spellcaster running the jamming helm until you hammer out the rules.

Well, I will need to alter a lot of things, since magic is very rare in my games. I like having it rare and mostly all epic level, such in how it is portrayed in fantasy and such. However, psionics are somewhat more common in my games (musch less powerful/significant), so I will probably need to find a way to convert most of the magic stuff into psionics, except for the real high-level and significant stuff. (Anyone have any tips for this?)



Boarding and broadsides are always more entertaining than ship vs. ship manuvers.

That depends on the person I believe. I personally prefer it the otehr way myself.

My homebrewed world is mostly water and islands, and so far I have been trying to make a balance between ship boarding and ship vs. ship fighting. I personally prefer the rules in the 3.0 Arms & Equipment Guide + some 3rd party rules I own, but I understand that some/most payers will prefer close melee, and I feel that realistically IRL ship battles probably consisted of both.



A good deal of the Spelljammer races are already converted for 3.5, and a few of the humanoids that aren't are in a dragon magazine somewhere.

Anyone know this issue number please?



As I understood the cosmology, the elemental/astral/outer planes are not accessable with spelljammer ships (unless you actually find a magic portal big enough to take one). It kept the other planes seperate from the mortals fooling around between the stars.

Well, I am more worried about powers/spells such as Planeshift. I did not even think about teh ships themselves traveling to other planes as a shortcut. I was worried the players might just Planeshift or Astral Caravan from one "Material World" or sphere, to say the plane of positive energy for a minute, and then Planshift to another world/sphere as a shortcut avoiding the need for ships altogether. Plus, I figure that this would make such ships useless and obsolete, since if you can transport people and merchandise from one sphere/world/setting to another within seconds, why would anyone spend months/years trying to do the same thing on slow moving ships. Plus the dangers would be significantly less.




Personally, I always enjoyed Spelljammer's concept, but my other gaming buddies wouldn't touch that stuff with a regulation 10 foot pole.

Why exactly? Was there a dislike or something for this setting?




Of course, now I want to throw a spelljamming ship into my campaign. :smalltongue:

If you do, please let me know how it works out! :smallbiggrin:

Ascension
2008-10-15, 11:07 PM
Is there any chance you could just convince your group to play 2E and save yourself the hassle of conversion? I mean, I realize you have an existing campaign and all, but if your PCs aren't too prestige-classed it might be easier just to convert them to 2E than it would be to convert Spelljammer to 3.5...

Raum
2008-10-15, 11:24 PM
Since, from what I understand, it treats all the settings as spheres on a single plane it actually works quite well for my mutliverse since I had already houseruled all the official settings, some 3rd party settings, and my homebrewed world into different earth-like "Material Worlds" on my Material Plane. I was even thinking about how I would make ship travel across these places and the two moons of my homebrewed world. I had thought the Mind Flayer ships in Lords of Madness would be the only option.To be more specific, it treats the world settings (such as Athas and Faerun) as spheres on the material plane. The planes (including Astral, Ethereal, Fire, etc) are still separate from the material plane.


Can any of the older players here please give me some advice, tips, etc about this setting? A Spelljammer campaign can be anything you want it to be. Pirates in space, save the Empire, plunder worlds, anything you can think of. It's been years but I still remember the Scro with fondness. They make a great antagonist race.


Can anyone who has done it, please tell me how you can incorporate this setting, or as I am thinking about it "another dimension to the planes/worlds", into my existing campaign? One of the easier methods is to have one of the evil slave trading races raid whatever location the PCs are at for slaves. Either Neogi or Scro would work. Depending on where you want to take the campaign you could have them capture a ship, just see the flying ships, need to rescue a captive, or a variety of other ideas.


Oh, and does anyone know how to incorporate the elemental/inner planes and the outer planes into this? I also want to make it so travel between the planets/spheres is restricted to ships (what was the term for spelljammer ships again?), and not as easy as jumping to inner/outer plane x and then shifting back to the Material Plane but to a different world, if this is at all possible to work out somehow. I guess some things like purposefully hard to find astral plane portals and such would also be OK, but again I would like the ships to be the main form of travel, so I need a way to seriously limit other ways of just plane hopping a bit while still keeping the 3.x cosmology I like so much. The relationship between planes doesn't need to change much if any. As for limiting travel, I'd recommend having planar travel spells return them to the sphere they left. Used keyed gates in Sigil (have to have a key for them to work) for traveling between spheres via the planes.


p.s. One of my players owns his own little fleet of ships, and the party is often traveling around my homebrewed world on a galley they/he owns, so I think it might be a fun treat for them to be able to convert it (and maybe the whole fleet) into jamming ships (was that the term?). Was this posible in the rules? Heck, the PC/player even named it the Galaxia, so I almost feel like fate had intended for this. It should be possible...if he can create or capture a spelljamming helm.

afroakuma
2008-10-15, 11:26 PM
There's enough unusual material present in 3.x that you won't need to convert too much unless you plan on doign a full and thorough conversion of Spelljammer.

Yes, Beyond the Moons runs a bit dry on actual material, preferring maybe one year's activity in homebrew fluff. Poor homebrew fluff, at that.

First off: Spelljammer takes place entirely within the Material Plane. Though the ships can cross into other planes (particularly the Transitive Planes), the Inner and Outer Planes are just as infinite as the cyrstal spheres, and separate.

I would reccommend using a slightly alien and pirate flavor for prestige classes, and picking unusual monstrous humanoids and intelligent aberrations for spacefaring races. Converted monsters and a general listing can be found here (http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-monster-talk/241446-pocket-reference-creatures-spelljammer-setting.html) and here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=16975450).

If you need a jumping point, I reccommend residues of the Inhuman War, a spacefaring conflict between elves and intelligent orcs spanning many worlds. It comes with its own "Tarrasque" (The Witchlight Marauder, as some of you may remember). Since Evermeet on Faerun is party to the war, it's got a link already. If you're running Eberron, bring the conflict in as a sudden linking to a previously inaccessible sphere (the Rings of Siberys are a pain.)

You're running low-magic, which usually makes Spelljammer less credible. My reccomendation in this case is to look into Legend of the Spelljammer, perhaps introducing a Smalljammer as an artifact-level way to get your players off terra firma.

As you are "newbDM," I would strongly suggest you choose either the Planes or the Spheres and try to keep to one or the other. Not saying summongs aren't allowed in the Spheres; it can just become difficult to manage, at times. Once you feel comfortable operating one or the other, decide how they scale with one another and go from there.

Scro (intelligent orcs), githyanki/githzerai (pirates of Gith), neogi, mind flayers and giff (Loxo might serve as a stand-in) make competitive adversaries. Decide early on whether to allow arquebuses, pistols and other smoke powder gear. It may make all the difference in low-magic.

Edit: If your players gain access to Shadow travelling or Ethereal travelling, remember that the phlogiston has no equivalent in either. It's actually quicker to travel between worlds using the planar route than spelljamming.

Lastly, welcome to the small fandom of Spelljammer! I hope you enjoy it!

newbDM
2008-10-15, 11:28 PM
Is there any chance you could just convince your group to play 2E and save yourself the hassle of conversion? I mean, I realize you have an existing campaign and all, but if your PCs aren't too prestige-classed it might be easier just to convert them to 2E than it would be to convert Spelljammer to 3.5...

Well, one of the reasons I was so against 4.0 is that I had just begun to master a system, and I have spent a small fortune on super expensive books and other items, so I was not about to start over. I had the same problem with Games Workshop with their 40K game. I had spent around two years converting three whole armies (all Eldar) from scratch, ever single model made unique, just to have them toss a new codex in front of me and tell me I can now only use 20% or so of all my models, when I was 4, 5, and 8 models away from finishing it all. I also had a small Tau army I was starting, and my original DE. Plus, the same thing happened again when I spent a fortune on the D&D minis to find out only 3-4 months after I started playing that 4.0 was announced and they would all be obsolete. :smallfurious:

I actually first became motivated to become a DM when I felt I should try to keep 3.5 alive for me, and other like me.


Sorry for the rant there, but basically I am not going to be budging from 3.5 anytime soon. I am more than happy to experiment with other RPG systems, as long as they are not WotC or Games Workshop related, but I don't feel like switching to another edition of D&D.

afroakuma
2008-10-15, 11:35 PM
If you need a specific question answered or have a monster that you simply MUST use, feel free to PM me. I have the Spelljammer materials as well as the original novels.

Cheesegear
2008-10-15, 11:49 PM
Plus, the same thing happened again when I spent a fortune on the D&D minis to find out only 3-4 months after I started playing that 4.0 was announced and they would all be obsolete.

Minis obsolete in 4th Ed? If anything, you need more of them.

newbDM
2008-10-16, 01:06 AM
If you need a specific question answered or have a monster that you simply MUST use, feel free to PM me. I have the Spelljammer materials as well as the original novels.

Dude, that is really nice of you! :smallsmile:



Minis obsolete in 4th Ed? If anything, you need more of them.

I got them for the D&D minis game. I personally prefer metal ones from Reaper and such, especially since the WotC ones look really cheap.

They have been sitting in a box in my garage for a while now, right along with my wasted fortune in 40k minis. :smallannoyed:

DMfromTheAbyss
2008-10-16, 02:18 AM
Ah Spell jammer.

Yes some of us still play. It just so happens I've got a game tomorrow involving a pirate city built onto a enslaved space leviathan... So yeah it's still alive and kicking.

If you need any reference material checked I've got both boxed sets and the monstrous compendium for it so for specific questions ask away.

Though remember especially in spelljammer to check stats and actually think about the ramifications of certain abilities and creatures, cause if something goes wrong it can go real wrong. (anyone ever notice the damage code for constellates?... wow;)

bosssmiley
2008-10-16, 04:18 AM
I see someone beat me to Shadow of the Spider Moon (http://www.andycollins.net/Projects/Spelljammer/Spelljammer.htm). That was a pretty cool 3E update, if a bit less whimsical than the original. You definitely need to get the Dungeon/Polyhedron issue (Dungeon #93 IIRC).

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-10-16, 08:50 AM
A word of warning with Spelljammer: Beware loopholes. One spelljammer game I ran, I had a guy who wanted to go to Krynn (Dragonlance series). So they went there, and saw the crazy steel/gold cost, then went back to Forgotten Realms, bought up as much steel as they could, went back to Krynn, and were set for life.

Going cross-setting is awsome, if you know ahead of time that certain setting-specific stuff is going to be leaked into your game, and you have a plan on how to handle it.

To be honest, I use parts of the 'spelljam' in my games, although I don't allow interplanar travel. I use a 'lost empire' which has a lot of ruins still unexplored. They ran almost everything on 'Magitech', which blows spell slots to power magic items. A Magitech Wand can be scary in the right hands, sure it blows a spell slot of the appropriate level every time it is used (and if you use a feat which blows extra charges, it translates into extra spell slots rather than increasing the spell slot), but it never runs out. Sorcerers value them more than wizards, and Warlocks cannot use them (No spell slots, and they cannot be UMD'd because they require that magical 'charge', which cannot be 'faked'. This also prevents Rogue UMD abuse).

There's also a few other items that are 'Necrotech', that instead of running on spell slots, it runs on HP or Con burn. Sure, it hurts, but the effects are generally pretty interesting. Also, as con BURN, things to prevent or heal con damage will not affect it (no binding Naberous), and neither will any magic, it has to heal on it's own.

kamikasei
2008-10-16, 09:02 AM
A Magitech Wand can be scary in the right hands, sure it blows a spell slot of the appropriate level every time it is used (and if you use a feat which blows extra charges, it translates into extra spell slots rather than increasing the spell slot), but it never runs out. Sorcerers value them more than wizards, and Warlocks cannot use them (No spell slots, and they cannot be UMD'd because they require that magical 'charge', which cannot be 'faked'. This also prevents Rogue UMD abuse).

...Runestaves, so?

Indeed, that approach to magitech - something that can only be used by casters, or that requires a cost beyond a skill check - sounds very interesting.

bosssmiley
2008-10-16, 09:11 AM
There's also a few other items that are 'Necrotech', that instead of running on spell slots, it runs on HP or Con burn. Sure, it hurts, but the effects are generally pretty interesting. Also, as con BURN, things to prevent or heal con damage will not affect it (no binding Naberous), and neither will any magic, it has to heal on it's own.

Did I hear someone say 'extension of the principle behind the Lifejammer Helm'? :smallbiggrin:

You got any semi-legible notes written up on that little lot Shneekey? Sounds fun and flavourable (and thus eminently lootable).

newbDM
2008-10-16, 09:15 AM
Did I hear someone say 'extension of the principle behind the Lifejammer Helm'? :smallbiggrin:

You got any semi-legible notes written up on that little lot Shneekey? Sounds fun and flavourable (and thus eminently lootable).

Seconded!

And as someone who loves very low-level magic, with a dash of psionics, the HP or Con burn items can give my players the "Boom-Booms" they immaturely crave while still keeping it balanced and restricted.

afroakuma
2008-10-16, 09:47 AM
Krynn is a dangerous setting to work with anyway, because so many of the rules are different. For example, the gods there are powerful independent of belief.

Greyhawk and pre-4E Forgotten Realms are the only major settings to be fully compatible with Spelljammer. That said, there are alterations that can be made to authorize the rest.

Cuddly
2008-10-16, 10:33 AM
I would seriously hammer out ship battle rules.

Stuff that will cause problems:
Spell casters.
Spell casters.
Spell casters.

The damage they can do from range will make any onboard ship weapons, short of Disintegration batteries, useless. Expect anything short of adamantine to get destroyed very quickly. You're going to need some sort of mechanism to prevent a barrage of acid sub'd spells from turning ships into goo.

The line of Wall of spells also create a problem. What happens when you throw a wall of force in front of an oncoming ship? If you cast wall of iron while traveling very, very fast, does the wall travel with you? What frame of reference does the wall use?

Beyond that, stuff like facing, turning, speed, need to be worked out, as well as ship damage, attacks, etc. I would give ships two speeds: a "warp" speed for traveling between planets, and a general fly speed for battles. Warp speed might make the ship semi-ethereal or astral or something, so they cannot be directly attacked, or have a mischance or something.

The reason I would do this is so that flying monsters, like dragons, will have a chance against your flying ship, instead of being pelted with magic at 0.9c or something.

newbDM
2008-10-16, 11:01 AM
I would seriously hammer out ship battle rules.

Stuff that will cause problems:
Spell casters.
Spell casters.
Spell casters.

The damage they can do from range will make any onboard ship weapons, short of Disintegration batteries, useless. Expect anything short of adamantine to get destroyed very quickly. You're going to need some sort of mechanism to prevent a barrage of acid sub'd spells from turning ships into goo.

The line of Wall of spells also create a problem. What happens when you throw a wall of force in front of an oncoming ship? If you cast wall of iron while traveling very, very fast, does the wall travel with you? What frame of reference does the wall use?

Beyond that, stuff like facing, turning, speed, need to be worked out, as well as ship damage, attacks, etc. I would give ships two speeds: a "warp" speed for traveling between planets, and a general fly speed for battles. Warp speed might make the ship semi-ethereal or astral or something, so they cannot be directly attacked, or have a mischance or something.

The reason I would do this is so that flying monsters, like dragons, will have a chance against your flying ship, instead of being pelted with magic at 0.9c or something.


Thanks for the tips. However, I do not feel that spellcasters will be a problem, since I am running low-level magic. Basically, the only casters my players are ever likely to play is a divine adept. Even psionics is limited to a small number of individuals, and players need to be part of one of my psonic organizations (which puts requirements and restrictions on them) in order be able to learn/take levels in psionic classes.

Matthew
2008-10-16, 12:16 PM
Sounds like you are going to enjoy Spelljammer! One thing I will add is that the physics can be a bit wonky, which is sometimes fun and other times not so much. Do not be afraid to chuck any rules or setting lore that you think are too goofy to use.

Thane of Fife
2008-10-16, 01:15 PM
I would seriously hammer out ship battle rules.

Stuff that will cause problems:
Spell casters.
Spell casters.
Spell casters.

The damage they can do from range will make any onboard ship weapons, short of Disintegration batteries, useless. Expect anything short of adamantine to get destroyed very quickly. You're going to need some sort of mechanism to prevent a barrage of acid sub'd spells from turning ships into goo.

The line of Wall of spells also create a problem. What happens when you throw a wall of force in front of an oncoming ship? If you cast wall of iron while traveling very, very fast, does the wall travel with you? What frame of reference does the wall use?

Beyond that, stuff like facing, turning, speed, need to be worked out, as well as ship damage, attacks, etc. I would give ships two speeds: a "warp" speed for traveling between planets, and a general fly speed for battles. Warp speed might make the ship semi-ethereal or astral or something, so they cannot be directly attacked, or have a mischance or something.

The reason I would do this is so that flying monsters, like dragons, will have a chance against your flying ship, instead of being pelted with magic at 0.9c or something.

I'm pretty sure that Spelljammer covers all this stuff. The War Captain's Companion has rules for how most spells affect ships - they generally suck (to be fair, weapons also generally suck).

'Warp Speed' would be Spelljamming Speed, which is, I believe, only possible in the Phlogiston, and equates to something like 1,000,000 miles a day or an hour or something.

Seriously, I cannot highly recommend the War Captain's Companion enough if you want to run Spelljammer.

It's $4 on Paizo, and contains rules for almost every ship, ship-to-ship combat, etc.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-10-16, 01:26 PM
Did I hear someone say 'extension of the principle behind the Lifejammer Helm'? :smallbiggrin:

You got any semi-legible notes written up on that little lot Shneekey? Sounds fun and flavourable (and thus eminently lootable).

Ask, and thou shalt receive (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5116249#post5116249)

AslanCross
2008-10-16, 07:28 PM
Dude, that is really nice of you! :smallsmile:




I got them for the D&D minis game. I personally prefer metal ones from Reaper and such, especially since the WotC ones look really cheap.

They have been sitting in a box in my garage for a while now, right along with my wasted fortune in 40k minis. :smallannoyed:

The stat cards are obsolete, but I recall WOTC coming out with updated card sheets that you could download for free on the Miniatures section of their site. They're not complete and I think are only in the beta stage, but I'm pretty sure they're being updated.

I spent a fortune on 3.5 miniatures too, but many of them have seen use when we play the RPG.

While I'm not really going to be using Spelljammer in my campaign, I had plans of adding the Mind Flayers of Thoon (Monster Manual V) into the campaign as a side story. Since the entry explicitly mentions them using a Nautiloid ship, I decided to give them a modified ship that runs on quintessence instead, forcing them to abduct a lot of people to fuel their ship apart from their daily needs. If anyone's interested, I could throw my notes your way.

newbDM
2008-10-16, 08:31 PM
While I'm not really going to be using Spelljammer in my campaign, I had plans of adding the Mind Flayers of Thoon (Monster Manual V) into the campaign as a side story. Since the entry explicitly mentions them using a Nautiloid ship, I decided to give them a modified ship that runs on quintessence instead, forcing them to abduct a lot of people to fuel their ship apart from their daily needs. If anyone's interested, I could throw my notes your way.


Yes please!

As someone suggested, this might be a great way of getting the PCs motivated in introducing themselves (and my homebrewed world) to the jammer community.

JaxGaret
2008-10-16, 10:20 PM
You're kind of getting me excited about Spelljammer too... I think I'm going to go check out some of those links now.

AslanCross
2008-10-17, 12:35 AM
Yes please!

As someone suggested, this might be a great way of getting the PCs motivated in introducing themselves (and my homebrewed world) to the jammer community.

Alright then. I'll scan the map when I get home. I'd already been thinking of posting it on the Homebrew forum but I wasn't too sure if I could use the "Thoon" name in it due to MMV not being OGL.

afroakuma
2008-10-17, 09:13 AM
I homebrewed seven slaadi and retouched the Slaad Lords, none of which are OGL. You're fine.

EvilElitest
2008-10-17, 03:04 PM
Spell jammer is amazing, i loved that setting. It and planescaped are combined in my worlds, that style of play is my personal favorite
Endless exploration and choices
from
EE

Devils_Advocate
2008-10-17, 06:23 PM
Oh, and does anyone know how to incorporate the elemental/inner planes and the outer planes into this? I also want to make it so travel between the planets/spheres is restricted to ships (what was the term for spelljammer ships again?), and not as easy as jumping to inner/outer plane x and then shifting back to the Material Plane but to a different world, if this is at all possible to work out somehow. I guess some things like purposefully hard to find astral plane portals and such would also be OK, but again I would like the ships to be the main form of travel, so I need a way to seriously limit other ways of just plane hopping a bit while still keeping the 3.x cosmology I like so much.
Lengthy explanation of the 3.5 multiverse as it pertains to Spelljammer:

Which 3.5 cosmology? Cosmologies are setting-specific in 3.5; Eberron is connected to some rather different planes than Abeir-Toril, and their afterlives work differently. They also have rather different gods, who relate to the world in general and their clerics in particular in different ways.

So if you really want to go crazy including all the locations in 3.5 material, you need to include all of the cosmologies. The standard way to do this is to give each cosmology it own Astral Plane, but connect all of the Material Planes to the Plane of Shadow, which then allows for travel from one cosmology to another. So you can plane shift to another plane in the same cosmology, but you need to go through Shadow to reach other cosmologies. This is (part of) what makes cosmologies separate.

If you want to take this supermultiverse and add on the Spelljammer setting with minimum changes, it's fairly straightforward. Each crystal sphere is its own finite Material Plane, and instead of or in addition to being hooked up to the Plane of Shadow, they're all hooked up to the Phlogeston. I think that even in 2E, you couldn't planar travel directly to or from the Flow itself, so... there ya go.

One potential problem with this is that if each cosmology is really totally separate, then e.g. both Oerth and Toril have an Abyss, and they have identical layers and identical archdemons and so on, which is more than a little weird. To avoid this, you can say that a single plane can be part of more than one cosmology: There's one Plane of Fire with one City of Brass, and it's connected to multiple Astral Planes. The thing is, though, if you do that, that reintroduces the possibility of easy travel between one Material and another, which you were trying to avoid. By plane shifting to and from the Elemental Plane of Air, a character can indirectly travel between any two cosmologies that share the standard Inner Planes (and a bunch do).

The trick here is to look at the description of the plane shift spell. If you have the right sort of small, forked metal rod, you can travel from a Material Plane to another plane in its cosmology. All well and good, but how do you get back? Can you use the same focus to return from there to the Material Plane? Or does that focus take you to, say, the Outlands, no matter which plane you're on when you cast plane shift? Can you plane shift to the Material Plane at all? Is it even possible to plane shift from e.g. the Outlands directly to the Beaslands, or do you have to go through the Material Plane? In the Forgotten Realms you specifically have to go through the Material Plane, but this is implied to be an exception to the general rule; heck, in FR, each Outer or Inner Plane has its own Astral Plane that only connects to it and the Material. I think.

So you can choose answers to the above questions that make planar travel from one crystal sphere to another harder. But regardless, if there's very little planar travel from Oerth to Toril, someone on Oerth probably isn't going to be able to just walk into a magic item shop and buy the relevant focus. Maybe it's easy to find on Toril, but this just makes it convenient to get back to spheres you've already been to.

Even then, there are weird, non-standard cosmologies like Eberron's, that don't have planes in common with other cosmologies. These worlds tend to be a bit more isolated than others, precisely because quick and easy planar travel in and out of them just plain isn't possible. Not that this has all that big of an effect, with planewalkers making up a very tiny minority of the total population anyway. And of course, portals can go from anywhere to anywhere (if you want).
The bottom line is that traveling between the planes is hard. It requires a powerful spell, rare and expensive magic item, or obscure knowledge just to get to another plane in your own cosmology. A nomad can lead an astral caravan of psionicists from one plane to another, but this doesn't provide anyone who can't manifest astral traveler with anything but a means of communication or trade. Reaching another crystal sphere is even harder, including by spelljammer; it's just beyond the means of most people. It pretty much has to be, to explain why there hasn't been a mass exodus or people from, say, Athas. (What, did you think people choose to stay there because they like it?)

So, by using separate cosmologies, you can allow for standard planar travel and still keep spelljamming the most attractive means of travel between settings. Unless it's the whole idea of instantaneous travel to anywhere that bothers you, in which case you're best off just banning planehopping and teleportation magic, allowing interdimensional transit only via stationary portals, vortices, color pools, planar paths, etc.

For reference, see Manual of the Planes and Sigil Prep (http://www.sigilprep.com/Planar%20Travel.htm).

Kiero
2008-10-18, 10:38 AM
Nothin hugely useful to add, but that Spelljammer is brilliant even without D&D behind it. Had lots of fun running a Wushu/Spelljammer game (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=375144)in PbP format, so much so that I'm going to have another go. Point I guess is that if the feel can be conveyed without D&D, converting from one version to another shouldn't be too difficult.

afroakuma
2008-10-18, 10:55 AM
The way I've always run them is that the spheres are all on the same Material Plane (The Secondary And Ternary Material Planes being reserved for other things), with the phlogiston flow being a planar substance that effectively segregates them and prevents catastrophic events in a single sphere from going beyond it. Planar travel into and out of the flow is impossible, since it is quasi-transitive but still technically within the Material Plane.

There is only the one Astral Plane, which is vast and spatial, to the point that a different sort of spelljamming often takes place there. The Ethereal and the Plane of Shadow are used to move in a planar fashion between spheres.

The Forgotten Realms cosmology is a set of domains on the true Outer and Inner Planes. With the exception of the Cynosure (a gated demiplane encapsulated within Abeir-Toril's Border Ethereal) none of them is a unique plane.

Eberron's "planes" are planar nodes that swirl around its Astral locus. Each is a partition of one of the true Planes, and can be accessed in that manner. Very few planar beings try, however, due to the uselessness of such a small territory. Those who have have formed their own mini-societies. Eberron via spelljamming is a dangerous but not impossible proposition.

EvilElitest
2008-10-18, 09:05 PM
that is most likely the best way to do it actually do you have raven loft and greyhawk as well?
from
EE

Recaiden
2008-10-18, 10:05 PM
SPELLJAMMER:biggrin:

Here are some attempts by others at 3.x conversions:
3rd ED Spelljamming (http://www.romsys.demon.co.uk/frpg/spelljam/)
Spelljammer (http://www.andycollins.net/Projects/Spelljammer/Spelljammer.htm)
Beyond the moons (http://www.spelljammer.org/)
Spelljammer Campaign Setting (http://www.silverblades-suitcase.com/sj/htm/spelljammer.htm)

Pick a block of rules that you think you can use. Several have systems for ship design. You should probably come up with some based on the original ships. You could make the fleet of ships into spelljammers. One important thing to decide is how available and powerful are helms.
The 1st site and Beyond the moons have playable systems, and much of the general things can be gotten from the older books. I also advise getting the dragon magazine with that article in it. If you have any questions about Spelljammer, you can Pm me or ask, I think I understand almost all of it. It's a wonderful campaign setting.

Cosmological stuff: As I understand it, all the spheres are on the same material plane. The phlogiston is completely unconnected to any other plane than the material. Teleportation can only move you within a sphere. Planar travel, I'm not sure about, but as each campaign setting seems to have somewhat different planes, I recommend that planes, whhile infinite, do not connect to the planes of other spheres.

newbDM
2008-10-21, 12:30 AM
Thank you so much guys for all the help, advice, and links so far.

I haven't started crunching through it yet, because I have not gotten by core book/set yet. I figure reading the how to update stuff before reading what I need to update is like putting the cart before the horse.


However, I have been having some fun doing what I can do. I have mostly mapped out my sphere/solar system, and have jotted down some basic notes and names for a few of them. Plus I love (trying) to sketch stuff, so drawing the solar system reminded me of my childhood a bit.


Here is the sphere/solar system (please forgive me the 99.999999% of you who will probably not be bale to make heads-or-tails out of this):
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/celestialkin/sc000a0ac9.jpg

Notes on this images:

The most outer circle is the Sphere. I will make it thicker, and color it crystalish blue tomorrow.
The circular lines within the outermost one are the orbits of the celestial bodies as they relate to the sun, or in some cases to each other as well.
Each letter corresponds to a matching letter in the Index below.




Index so far of the above image:

The Sun: Sun (In Common), Baz ("Fire" in Dwarven), Sha ("Sun" in Elven)
Notes:

This is the main exception to the borrowing words/names from the main languages idea (see the main notes below). Practically each language has it's own word for this object.
This object remains stationary at teh center of the sphere.


A: Dareshar ("Burning-Moon" in Dwarven), Lafrua ("Star-Moon" in Elven)
Notes:

Gas Giant turned second star/sun.
Has a group of planets orbiting it, while it orbits the center bigger sun.


B:
C:
D:
E: Origin.
Notes:

This is my base world, and the one all of my campaign has been on so far.


F: Asteroid belt #1
Notes:

For a possible plothook I am thinking of having one (or maybe more if I want to reuse this hook/plot/idea on multiple occasions) of the "mythical ships" of the original Elves might still be drifting or hidden here. Perhaps one/some were abandoned, perhaps one is drifting because it's crew of Elven jammers or colonists met an untimely death (either accidental of malicious), perhaps the previous idea, but the crew is in stasis (think Stargate Atlantis or any of a million Sci-Fi movies style), or perhaps they purposefully docked or hid one/them there expecting to return?
Perhaps there are pirates here? (Nah, this really clashes with my whole Rita is the only jamming capable power in this sphere fluff [see link on EM2])


G: Ortia ("Gem-Pool" in Dwarven), Fisdar ("Light'Wolrd" in Elven)
Notes:

A water world with a beautiful crystal blue and pink ring surrounding it.
The ring's two colors are constantly shifting, blending, and changing in a breathtaking pattern.
Perhaps some of the ring's chunks of debris are big enough to sustain life, or at least big enough to dock a jammer ship, maybe big enough for a repair dock as well as a dock, or just big enough to make a house on?
Perhaps Rita mines for minerals here, and maybe even has a few ships docked/stationed here.
Although this world is about 99.999% water, there could be some small islands scattered here and there.
This world would be home to a large number of sea elves, because like the first generation Elves on Origin they were the first to settle on this world.
Perhaps the above mentioned Sea Elves had/have/have somewhere jammer ships which can go beneath the waves?
There would certainly be a lot of aquatic races here. However, cut back on the Unearthed Arcana version of standard races here. Try making it a bit different rather than having the same cast of races on each world/moon. I guess a few isolated groups of each beside the Elves would be OK, but make them an extremely small minority compared to other creatures/races designed for sea games.
This planet is stuck in an eternal orbit with Dorgen/Firdar. Both worlds are almost exactly the same size and dimension, and hold each other in a perfectly balanced spinning orbit which forms a perfect circle (if seen from afar). Since they are Origin's closest neighbor for the majority of Origin's solar cycle, on very clear nights to some observers and poets it seems as though these world's are locked in an eternal dance. They travel around the sun in this same orbit, with the center point between them as their axes (is that the right word?). Also, this center point has an exceptionally high gravity phenomena due to the two worlds.


H: Dorgen ("Red-Stone" in Dwarven), Firdar ("Dark-World" in Elven)
Notes:

This is an extremely barren and scorched world. It is almost entirely covered in a single massive dessert.
This world is basically the polar-opposite of Ortia/Fisdar.
Think about using the Painted Elves from Sandstorm for this.
Actually, Sandstorm might be an insanely good book for this world period.
This planet is stuck in an eternal orbit with Ortia/Fisdar. Both worlds are almost exactly the same size and dimension, and hold each other in a perfectly balanced spinning orbit which forms a perfect circle (if seen from afar). Since they are Origin's closest neighbor for the majority of Origin's solar cycle, on very clear nights to some observers and poets it seems as though these world's are locked in an eternal dance. They travel around the sun in this same orbit, with the center point between them as their axes (is that the right word?). Also, this center point has an exceptionally high gravity phenomena due to the two worlds.


I:
J:
K:
L:
M:
N:Asteroid Belt #2
Notes:

Much like #1 I suppose.


O:Asteroid Belt #3

See #1 & #2.
Now that I think about this, these really don't count as "belts" do they? They would be more like clusters I guess?


P: Ang Von ("Glittering Ice" in Elven)
Notes:

Due to being in an orbit so far away from the central sun, and being no where near the minor sun, this is basically an Ice World.
I guess that some Arctic Eves from the original First Generation jamming colonizing expedition might have actually thought this was quite cozy, so they broke off and made home here?
Maybe because there was no other sentient (and almost no life period) for so long this lack of threats let their numbers increase to a level comparable to other worlds? Maybe, but I'd still say their numbers are REALLY low in comparison to the other worlds due to the limited amount of game (but this would also apply to other Arctic Variant races which would have eventually arrived later).
Perhaps these elves, and all the (few) other inhabitant of this world are quite hard and Alaska style people(s)?
Should I make them that "the cold whether has made them cold", or instead make them jolly folks who are actually quite happy and surprised to see sentient (or even non-sentient) beings who aren't smurf blue?
With such low populations, such limited resources, such a struggle to simply survive, and so much wide open (and very empty, in more than one way) space would there really be any form of interracial conflict here? Perhaps this is the jolliest, most laid back (when not working) place in this whole setting/Sphere?
Perhaps all the races have eventually bonded together out of necessity, and there is only one (or perhaps like 3-7, or maybe 9-13?) settlements on the whole planet, and they are all multicultural like this?
Maybe just say screw it, and make this the calm happy Xmas vacation spot for the PCs, and future PCs/players if they getting jamming tech when they need a break?
Frostborn is probably the best book for this.
Maybe I can finally introduce Neanderthals?
Perhaps the original ship the Elves mentioned above came on is still intact, but sealed/stuck somewhere above, on, or below the ice?
Perhaps under the ice of this world there are hyperthermal vents which provide the option for undersea adventures under the ice?



Moons:
DM1:
EM1:Lunar
Notes:

I am planning to Fractal Mapper this to look like a pristine untouched Earth. Simply untouched and perfect.

EM2: Luner
Notes:
See THIS (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94368) thread for more information on this moon, and it's ruler/main power.




Notes on all of this:

The celestial bodies either have a Dwarven and/or Elven name because they are by far the oldest races to have settled in this Sphere. Hence, the other races usually borrow the names from these races for their own vocabularies. I figured this would make sense, since I believe the same happens in IRL languages here on Earth (can anyone verify this?).
Origin is my homebase world, and so far Flanes has been the main continent of my campaign, and although I have been slowing trying to map and populate all/much of the planet, the PCs/players still have not left Flanes.
Because Flanes is my base world, I figured that only worlds (or stars) visible from Origin would have a Dwarven name as well as an Elven name. This is because I do not plan to have had the Dwarves come into Origin through spelljamming (perhaps Moradin and/or the rest of the Dwarf Pantheon simply divinely gated them in from Celestial or their realms to this Sphere full of untouched precious minerals?).
I just realized, this would mean that I need to write up lists of the names of each (or all visible) solar body based of the populations and their point of view in the system? Actually, I kinda like this idea. However, how would I decide how far an objects people(s) can see from each world/moon/other?
I use the WotC books Races of the Wild, and Races of Stone for all my Dwarf and Elf naming.




Translation of my terrible handwriting above if anyone cared (these are basically just notes I made, though):
-Sphere is named Naaira ("Ancient Home" in Elven) for those few who even know they are in a sphere.

-Ages ago, during the departure of the Seldarine from the Seelie Court Elves were the first sentient beings to colonize this sphere. Elven legends say that those of the first generation came to this world upon on mythical flying ships from outside what is now known, and settled on the Elven Peninsula of Flains from where all Elves on Origin later spread. However, only the last First Ones truly know.


The above notes got me thinking about making this "myth" into an in-game thing to give the setting some flavor/history.

The result:


Wild Elf elder from the Havain tribe reciting an oral story detailing the arrival of Elves on Origin:

Notes:
-Think native Americans here. How they pass down their history orally form one generation to the next, and how they recite them around campfires with possible dancing, singing, etc.
-This is believed to be their oldest narrative, passed down through the ages.
-Occasionally parts added onto it. This is usually after major events.

"Long ago, before the humans invaded, before the dwarves came to mine our mountains, before the centaurs journeyed to our planes with their pixie brothers on their backs, and even before we or any of our fellow Elves existed this world was truly wild. Not a stone had been moved from it's resting place, not a tree had been cut from it's roots, nor a river soiled.

Then one morning, as Sha drove the night away, her light unveiled the wooden halls of mighty ships sailing upon the very clouds over the land. These ships, as big as they were beautiful to the eyes, carried our sires. Our first sires!

These Elves were of the first generation. The generation which witnessed the day the Seldarine left the Seelie Court for reasons still unknown to us. The Elves who lived when the Elves ceased to be true fey. The first Elves to be ageless, yet not immortal.

The First Ones had traveled from beyond what is now known. Aboard the sky ships were Elves of every breed and kind still on Origin today. Even the Drow sailed with them, for Lolth was still Araushnee, Araushnee and Corellen were still madly in love, and the Dark Seldarine had still not been.

They sailed the winds for many months, until every bit of land had been seen and charted on their scrolls. Once the task was done, they went over their freshly linked maps once more. Then the decision was made, and what is now named the Elven Peninsula was chosen as their new home.

From these roots all Elves on Origin came. The cities they made on that Peninsula still stand today as proud as ever, but since they were the first sentient creatures on this vast and rich world of course they spread. Long before the dwarves first sprouted from the mountains to keep us company, the many kin of Elves had already spread to the four winds. And here we still stand.

Neither our new friends, nor our future rivals, or even the last wars of the humans of recent past were able to uproot us. And as the last of the humans fade, and our child-like rivalry with the Dwarves renews we begin our journey anew.

Notes on this:

Now I can use this myth as something which the players can "unlock". perhaps this could lead to them discovering/unearthing jamming?
It is obviously not good at all, maybe there are some better writers on here who can help touch this up?
One of the things I like about this is that it allowed me to bring a number of things I have done for my world (the Elf history and their rules homebrews I did a while ago, the tribe I based on one of the PCs who is a Wild Elf and connected him to it, the spelljamming, the current condition of humanity that has been a part of my games since day one, the "Return of the age of Dwarves and Elves", and the cities and few remaining First Ones) and mix it up together for some background for the whole setting. Plus, I am hoping this will allow me to make it into something I can throw into a game in a fun and interesting way [acting as the elder at the ceremony] instead of just saying "You find another tome, with xxxx xxx xxx xxx written in it".




So, what do the pros here think of this so far? It's not much yet, but can you guys please tell me what I am doing right so far, and what not?

What else can/should I do to get this off the ground? I have never done anything as complex, interconnected, or big as this before, so I am just guessing as what to do and hoping I am on the right track..


p.s. Anyone have a clue how Naaira would be pronounced?

newbDM
2008-11-02, 04:11 PM
I am sorry to bump this thread, but I have encountered a snag just when I was close to done with my planning for entering Spelljamming into my campaign world.

So, after buying the old 2.0 material from sites like ebay, and getting a good part of my sphere done, the Admiral PC who owned (and had access to) all the ships in the party/kingdom just croaked after going suicidal and trying to show up Death (an over deity in my games who occasionally pops in for laughs) because he was turned into a female.

Now I have no idea on how to continue with this plan. No other PC has sailing ranks, or a ship. He had a level of Legendary Captain to boot.


What would the pros on here do now?

Illiterate Scribe
2008-11-02, 05:44 PM
Make them improvise. It always made me feel a small measure of joyous pride upon sailing back into a spelljamming port in a vessel held together mostly by ten-foot poles and dodgy DnD physics - perhaps there can be some pressing emergency that necessitates people trying to reverse-engineer spelljamming technology from the ancient Elven legends. I'm thinking something kinda like Anathem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anathem) here - they get roped into trailblazing/jerry-rigging this new system.

Also, just in case anyone's interested, I found a homebrew 4e Spelljammer ship-to-ship combat system, here (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=C38GBIIP).

WychWeird
2008-11-02, 06:58 PM
Have them come across a rumour of an old spelljamming ship and captain who retired many years ago - they can follow up the leads to find the place and you'll have a number of options that can be followed:

Persuade the old guy to start adventuring again
Pressgang him
Persuade his son/grandson who understands the theory but has never been allowed to practise
Steal the ship and attempt to do it themselves

It gets you out of a tight spot this time!

newbDM
2008-11-15, 04:19 AM
Make them improvise. It always made me feel a small measure of joyous pride upon sailing back into a spelljamming port in a vessel held together mostly by ten-foot poles and dodgy DnD physics - perhaps there can be some pressing emergency that necessitates people trying to reverse-engineer spelljamming technology from the ancient Elven legends. I'm thinking something kinda like Anathem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anathem) here - they get roped into trailblazing/jerry-rigging this new system.

Also, just in case anyone's interested, I found a homebrew 4e Spelljammer ship-to-ship combat system, here (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=C38GBIIP).


Have them come across a rumour of an old spelljamming ship and captain who retired many years ago - they can follow up the leads to find the place and you'll have a number of options that can be followed:

Persuade the old guy to start adventuring again
Pressgang him
Persuade his son/grandson who understands the theory but has never been allowed to practise
Steal the ship and attempt to do it themselves

It gets you out of a tight spot this time!

Thank you for the tips guys. Sadly the group has recently fallen apart due to issues with a particular player, so it no longer matters. :smallfrown:

Once this semester ends I hope to start a new groups if I can find the players, so I might be able to give this a fresh start. I already have my "sandbox" home-world largely finished, and I ahve a good start on the sphere it is located in, so I guess this is a good thing.


However, I love your ideas!

I like the idea of a group/party needing the rengineer the ancient technology. It would also possibly allow for the players to get more into my homebrewed world's history.

The idea of an old captain with a ship (preferably a smaller one) is also a great idea in my opinion. Since Rita Repulsa (see my thread on her) has a monopoly on the jamming in this sphere, I am thinking I can make it as though he was part of an adventuring party who came to investigate this until then unknown sphere, but was forced to crash land on this world when Rita's ships shot them down/forced them to crash land. Perhaps this can also link to the above idea, since perhaps I can make it so Rita is deciding to finally try her hand at conquering the rest of the solar system/sphere after years of making a fortune (which she used to amass hew jamming fleet) by selling secretively trading/selling goods to-and-from this sphere to others. (Thanks guys, I am on one of my brainstorming moments! :smallbiggrin:). So now the PCs will need to find a way to get to her, and they track down this remote semi-hermit who "fell from the stars" (which no-one believed the story until now, since the damaged ship was hidden by the survivors, and guarded by this old "gramps"). A nice short (or even long) quest/adventure can even be made out of finding replacement parts to get the ship working again!



Either way, I just got my first three sets of the Spelljammer series. The AD&D Adventures in Space, the Legend of the Spelljammer, and the War Captain's Companion. I am still at the very beginning of the first book, but I am already loving it! Plus all the cool nifty inserts and stuff. :smallbiggrin:

However, I am quickly seeing a problem with inserting this all into my homebrewed campaign setting. It is very low-magic, with arcane magic being almost exclusively epic level territory (sort of how it is portrayed in fantasy and such), and diving magic being slightly more common, but with the most a player can usually play being an adapt and even then being bound to a church/religious order (clerics are only found in Metropolis sized settlements, and there there are only ever one and they run the biggest of the holy temples/orders. Druids fill this roll for nature deities in forest and less "civilized" areas). I am thinking I really need to find a way to convert all this into 3.5 psionics, since psionics are somewhat more common in my games (but PCs would usually still need to be bound to an order that teaches them). Can this conversion be done? If so, anyone have any advice or experience regarding this?

newbDM
2008-11-17, 12:19 AM
I am still on the first book in the Spelljammer series Spelljammer: AD&D Adventures in Space (only by page 10), but I already saw some decisions I need to make for my games. I would like to run them by the Spelljammer pros here for some opinions.


Notes on my Spelljamming setting:

I designed my sphere before I even had my first Spelljammer books, so I did not know a sphere should be twice as big in diameter as the furthest celestial body from the center. Would this cause problems?

There are no stars in the sphere of Naaira.

Exception:
The second smaller sun Dareshar/Lafrua in Naaira looks like a third bright (or even burning/on fire when the two celestial bodies are close enough) moon from Origin's perspective. However, for the portion of the solar cycle while Origin and Dareshar/Lafrua are on opposites sides of Baz/Sha (the sun) Dareshar/Lafrua is not visible from Origin.

The inhabitants of Origin are not sure why their third moon mysteriously vanishes for about half the year (remember, no Spelljamming technology is know here yet), but many of the various sentient cultures have their own beliefs and traditions concerning this, and some even have rituals and/or celebrations centering around the disappearance and reappearance of Dareshar/Lafrua. A theme common concerning these beliefs has to do with it merging or being absorbed by the other fiery/bright/light giving celestial body in their sky (the sun Baz/Sha) in some form or another for various reasons.

Divine Magic does not function outside the spheres in the Phlogiston, nor does it function in spheres where an individual's deity has no influence (see pg.9 of Spelljammer: AD&D Adventures in Space as to why).

Divine casters simply lose access to all their spells, and any special abilities granted by their class/deity while away from an area where their deity holds influence. However, they retain any uncast spells they had prepared or would normally have access to (for divine casters who do not prepare spells), and any special abilities granted from their class/deity until they awaken from their next rest cycle (which includes the Elven trance). If the creature is unable to rest, chooses not to rest, or does not require any form of rest the divine magical energy stored within it by it's deity is expanded within 24 hours of leaving it's god's influence.

This is all due to the gods not being able to refill their chosen vessels with their divine energies once they leave the range of their influence and vision.

The only known exception to this are the chosen of the over-deity Death. His vessels claim this is due to Death having dominion everywhere in existence, for no one is beyond the reach of his scythe.

Notes on this:
-In my games/homebrewed multiverse all divine power comes from deities, and all "Divine Casters" are essentially chosen representatives of their god, and are essentially walking vessels who their god bestowed a portion of it's divine power within. Hence all divine casters are required to have a deity, and no one may pick domains which their deity does not posses.

-I have written Death up as a deity. He essentially functions as an over-deity, and all other gods with the Death domain are "technically" under his service (he is an unusual, fickle, and very comical individual, so he varies on how he deals with these deities, much like he varies on how he deals with his followers). Since creatures can die outside the spheres in the Phlogiston, I figured I should deal with the issue of their souls before it came up, which I am certain it eventually will...


All the celestial bodies in my sphere (including the asteroid clusters) orbit around the center star/sun/whatever (haven't decided what it really is yet), and are affected by it's immense gravity (like in real world physics). Some bodies are captured by much larger celestial bodies then themselves which are closer by, though.



Now that I am leaning towards making divine magic useless in the Phlogiston, I will definitely need to convert this all to psionics. However, I will wait until I finish reading the entire first boxed set before I attempt this.



Additions to the celestial bodeis:
I have also decided to make D in my sphere the planet Falx from the Spelljammer book Practical Planetology. (I got the book as a PDF at Paizo.com cheap)

For those who don't know, Falx is a desolate world which is supposedly (up to DM's discretion) the original home of all the "unique" tarresques on the more popular settings/worlds. There are hundreds of them on the surface (along with some other big lizards). There are also huge mind flayer cities underground in a very large underdark.


D: Falx (Elven for "scum". It is how the original Elf colonist referred to the mysterious creatures who suddenly appeared from no-where and attacked them.)

Notes:

I have decided to make it the actual original world of all tarrasque. This would also help explain why this sphere is so unknown and secluded, because who in their right mind would want to come to the homesphere of these guys?
This would essentially be where the various groups of pissed-off gods come to get one of these buggers when they need to "punish" an entire world and such.
This would also explain why there are a number of tarrasque running around this sphere. This includes one wearing a very large top-hat and monocle who some clever (or foolish?) adventurers long ago used multiple intelligence boosting powers/spells on in the hopes of making him "realize what he's doing", and one reduced to small size long ago by some powerful manifesters and stuffed into a special bag of holding (with no apparent sides to puncture), which was then left at the bottom of a large an very protected dungeon (I am thinking of putting it at the bottom of the Tomb of Horrors......would this be too much/cruel?).
I plan on using the Mind Flayer fluff of them coming from the far future when the multiverse was/is/will/might end due to some disaster, and mix it with my sphere's fluff. Basically, they would have returned to the very time and point when the first colonist in this sphere came (the Elves mentioned earlier in this thread) to attack and enslave them to have the first (and in their minds permanent) foothold in this sphere. However, the "primitive" elves somehow managed to be victorious. Although most of the mysterious ships with their mysterious and vile crew were destroyed, a few of the massive colony ships crash landed on one of the uninhabited worlds. These ships are the massive underground settlements mistaken for cities in the Geonomicon (the IRL book Practical Planetology as an item in-game as described as an option in the IRL book).
Most of the inhabitants upon these massive colony ships were inside stasis pods located within large enclosed chambers since before they left the future. They had all assumed the "primitive" elves of the past would be no match for their attack ships with their primitive spelljamming technology, so they were not expecting for their enormous vessels to end up embedded miles within an uninhabited planet. Because of this, and the fact that the colony ships were not intended to enter actual combat, these ships were being manned by skeleton crews with very limited numbers of troops to watch their "livestock" which were too numerous and of too little value to be place in costly stasis devices. When their ships crashed into the planet in a desperate attempt to escape the pursuing elves, most of these awake mind flayers were instantly killed, and those that survived were quickly overrun and killed by the large numbers of "livestock" which had escaped during the crashes.
The above mentioned creatures which escaped from the mind flayer ships account for the orcs, and smattering of other races and creatures mentioned in Falx's entry in Practical Planetology. Since there was no reason to teach their "food" anything, and that doing so would certainly have been a danger to the mind flayers, the creatures that escaped had no knowledge of the future's advanced technology, or how to use anything on the mind flayer ships. Because of this they all eventually left the massive ships to search for food and shelter in the massive network of tunnels beneath Falx's surface (see Falx's entry in Practical Planetology for more information concerning the planet Falx), and many simply wanted to get as far away from the sleeping mind flayers as they possibly could. The descendants of these creatures still exist on Falx today. Although the true story behind the three massive ships (often mistaken as cities) has largely faded into antiquity, bits and pieces of the truth still remains in legends and myths passed down from generation to generation. However different one telling of the story might be from one group to the next, one underlying principle remains prominent: Do not enter them under any circumstances!. Almost all tellings also speak of ancient and evil godly creatures who slumber within them, which is why a common name for these three places is the Sleeping Cities throughout the various races and tongues.
This planet was named Falx by the space fairing elves, a word meaning "scum" which they used for the mysterious vile creatures they had just encountered, as their ships turned to leave it's orbit with their crew believing that the last of the monsters had just died in fatal crashes into the planet's surface.
The Illithids remain asleep inside the plant's underdark, which could make for a(n) interesting adventures for games. And if a group of PCs/players awaken them, it would make for a very...interesting...mess in my setting/sphere.
Illithids in my homebrewed setting are extremely rare and few in number, but have D20 Future level technology. So there is obviously loads of it inside these ships/cities, but then there is also the danger of awakening these epicly bad hornets nests.
Since this was a pretty quick, and unusual incident I doubt it would have been remembered long after the elves settled on their new worlds, especially since they would have had far more to worry about very soon after. However, I could imagine a small mention of this heroic and deadly battle with unknown monsters just before they found their new home could remain in the stories and legends the elves tell of their first-generations ancestors. Only the handful of "First Ones" who still remain in the sphere (on the Elven Peninsula on Origin) still remember these creatures, for they were there during the event.
This all means that there is probably a field of damaged and destroyed mind flayer ships (and odds are some first-generation elven ones) near the general area of Falx. Good plot-worthy material in that!
The sleeping Illithids are not aware of what had happened, or of the insanely long period of time they have been in stasis (this was around the time the Elves first left Fey as a whole group in my mutlivers, and in essence the point in time when the elves began their presence as a non-fey race on the material plane and elsewhere).
The last First Ones getting wind of the fact that these creatures are still alive could make for an interesting event. Especially since none of their ships remain (unless they themselves still have one or a few/handful locked away) (most were either cannibalized during the early days, or were taken over the years by First Ones who either tired of this world over the millennia, wanted to go adventuring[epic level adventuring for them], or wanted to find a way to return to "what they were"), since so few of them remain, and since even if some jamming ships remained they would fear the younger generations would not be a match for those creatures.

JadedDM
2008-11-17, 02:00 AM
Wow, sounds like some really cool stuff, NewbDM. I've always wanted to play in or run a Spelljammer game myself, but never had the chance. I want to add spelljamming technology to my world, but I'm worried my players wouldn't go for it. Upon discovering Spelljammer, there seem to be two possible reactions from people:

The first is "Wow, this is so awesome!" This includes people such as myself and you, NewbDM.

The other, sadly more common reaction is, "What? Pssh, that's stupid!" This is the typical attitude of most or all of my players at any given point in time. Alas.

axraelshelm
2008-11-17, 02:33 AM
Wow it's great some of the ideas I'm reading here, okay I know that this is asking you to spend more money but Fantasy Flight Published this set of books called Dragonstar and it was stats for ships, aswell as star drives it's 3.0 so the rules would be very easy to convert to 3.5.
It's d&d in space but done very starwars like Gith-yanki with silver light sabres okay they aren't officaly in the setting but mix things up abit I always say. Here my two cents.

Quietus
2008-11-17, 03:21 AM
Hm.

So Spelljammer, minus hippopotamus mercenaries, equals cool?

I like. :D

Winter_Wolf
2008-11-17, 03:30 PM
I'm a bit rusty on my Spelljammer, since I haven't seen my boxed sets in about 10 or 12 years, but doesn't spelljamming require a caster to burn spells to power the ship? If you're using 3.5 psionics, I'd just convert spell levels to a number of power points equal to manifest the power and have the manifester burn power points. You know, 1st level is 1PP, 2nd is 3PP, and so on. I actually think psionics might work *better* for spelljamming. Plus, you know, the illithid threat seems to make more sense that way. Plus you'd be able to have a psychic warrior power a ship that way, at least part of the time.

By the way, psionics and spelljamming, that just rocks. Hope you can get a new group together and give it a go.

Kiero
2008-11-17, 06:21 PM
Alternatively, equip them with that artifact-helm that burns magic items. Suddenly the PCs have a use for the golf-bags full of +1 items they'd otherwise have just sold off.

newbDM
2008-11-19, 11:21 PM
Wow, sounds like some really cool stuff, NewbDM. I've always wanted to play in or run a Spelljammer game myself, but never had the chance. I want to add spelljamming technology to my world, but I'm worried my players wouldn't go for it. Upon discovering Spelljammer, there seem to be two possible reactions from people:

The first is "Wow, this is so awesome!" This includes people such as myself and you, NewbDM.

The other, sadly more common reaction is, "What? Pssh, that's stupid!" This is the typical attitude of most or all of my players at any given point in time. Alas.

Thank you. :smallsmile:

As for being worried about the players/group going for it, the way I see it if they don't like it they will just go a different route. You should not keep that from at least giving it a try. The DM is supposed to have fun as well.



Wow it's great some of the ideas I'm reading here, okay I know that this is asking you to spend more money but Fantasy Flight Published this set of books called Dragonstar and it was stats for ships, aswell as star drives it's 3.0 so the rules would be very easy to convert to 3.5.
It's d&d in space but done very starwars like Gith-yanki with silver light sabres okay they aren't officaly in the setting but mix things up abit I always say. Here my two cents.

Thanks as well!

And I actually got a single Dragonstar book I got on sale (for $0.49). It is very interesting, but not really the feel I want. To Star Wars like, and not really the more "fun" feel I get from Spelljammer.

I will definitely read more on it, though.



Hm.

So Spelljammer, minus hippopotamus mercenaries, equals cool?

I like. :D

Who says they are not going to appear? :smallbiggrin:

If players ever decide to travel to other spheres they will probably see them.

Come on, they are just too....something...to exclude.



I'm a bit rusty on my Spelljammer, since I haven't seen my boxed sets in about 10 or 12 years, but doesn't spelljamming require a caster to burn spells to power the ship? If you're using 3.5 psionics, I'd just convert spell levels to a number of power points equal to manifest the power and have the manifester burn power points. You know, 1st level is 1PP, 2nd is 3PP, and so on. I actually think psionics might work *better* for spelljamming. Plus, you know, the illithid threat seems to make more sense that way. Plus you'd be able to have a psychic warrior power a ship that way, at least part of the time.

By the way, psionics and spelljamming, that just rocks. Hope you can get a new group together and give it a go.

I have not reached that section yet. College hasn't been leaving me enough time to finish reading that book.

But based on what you've said, yeah it does seem like it would work better! Score one for the psionics fans. :smallbiggrin:

I do want to make magic available to power ships as well, but since magic is more "epic" in my cosmology/setting, I want it to be much more effective than psionic run jamming. Hopefully I will see a way to do this mechanically in the book.

And you have a great point, it does seem like the "Illithid threat" (I like how you worded that) would make more sense.

And thanks for thinking this "rocks". As someone who has a passion for psionics, I am glad to here someone else say that.



Alternatively, equip them with that artifact-helm that burns magic items. Suddenly the PCs have a use for the golf-bags full of +1 items they'd otherwise have just sold off.

Well, again my cosmology/setting is very low-magic, and magic items are very rare.

Psionic is somewhat more common, but not to the point magic is in "normal" as RAW D&D games. However, I guess that artifact could still be useful, especially for emergencies or jams.

This actually gives me an idea! Perhaps, while visiting a world in my sphere the psionicist NPC they would probably need to hire gets killed, so they would need to hunt down and unearth some ancient First One Elf tech (the psionic/magic item burning artifact) to get home. However, this would probably mean they would have to burn their precious (and rare in my games) items.