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DracoDei
2008-10-16, 07:41 AM
Retitled and bumped...

I am running a 3.5 D&D game, currently at ECL 5 & 6 for the PCs. PC alignments are mostly Neutral Good, with one Lawful Neutral, and one Lawful Good. They are having a very hard time with one of the over-arching campaign goals, specifically recruiting settlers for the hidden village they are the champions of. Level 1-3 commoners will do just fine for most of the settlers. I thought that the forumites here might enjoy coming up with solutions for this. I can feed these solutions to them in the form of the recommendations of the people they are the champions of to the party.

The trip is a few hundred miles and is pretty safe with the PCs as escorts (safe enough we won't be roleplaying it), the vllage already exists, it just needs some fresh blood because they are getting a bit inbred. The problem is that the village is comprised of variant theranthropes (or as the monster manual calls them: lycanthropes)... in fact extremely varient in that in this campaign world they are the only strain of theranthropes whose infected versions aren't Chaotic Evil killing machines in animal and hybrid form. A misunderstanding centered around this point, combined with the fact that their ancestors managed to tick off a goddess (except that we call them Warders in this game) to the point that she put a curse on them such that any individual who commits adultary or fornication is rendered perminantly infertile, is why this strain now ONLY exists in this one hidden village. An additional part of the punishment curse on them is that The Bite now only works once in a lifetime for any given individual and only on one's spouse. Note that mephit-thropy (yes, these are my magnum opus, the wereskunks...) is almost purely a blessing given that shifting is almost NEVER involentary, and grants the same benefits as being a natural born mephit-thrope in almost every regard.

One of the party members is genetically deficient in that he can't go bipedal. He is pretending to be a dire-skunk they have trained (because crazy adventurers will run around with the most BIZZARE attack animals).

I know that the balance between recruiting people who won't freak out too much (statistically) and try to start a revolt or escape to bring in an "inquistion" and secrecy and honesty is a hard one... but so far the reactions I have gotten from the players make it seem like it makes being a CIA agent trying to recruit moles within the KGB look like a cake-walk...

And... that is about as well as I can explain it right now...

Any ideas on how to help my players recruit people for the village?

Questions for clarification welcome...

DracoDei
2008-10-18, 04:22 AM
Bump!
Come on? Not even one response? Did I not present it correctly somehow? If so, please tell me, I can't fix it if I don't know how it is broken...

Tempest Fennac
2008-10-18, 04:27 AM
I think it was posted correctly. I'm guessing you can't really offer financial incentives for people to move there, right? I suppose one thing you could do is promise settlers that you'll spend money on improving the village as you get it. Other then that, and Charm spells (which are unethical anyway), I can't think of anything.

Emperor Tippy
2008-10-18, 04:44 AM
Have them run into a town that was overrun by orcs or the like and that was destroyed. A group of now homeless, just rescued slaves/kidnap victims, who had most of their family killed should be willing to go for the promise of a new house and food.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-18, 04:48 AM
Find another isolated village suffering from a similar lack of blood and offer to move all of them there. You'll at least get some. Or, go to the city, and offer the working girls a chance to marry(without need of a dowry) and get a husband. Many seamstresses were forced into the life due to lack of funds and prospects. Go into the fields and offer third and fourth sons the chance to own a farm and they'll follow you anywhere. We're talking about people who live in D&D, they should be used to freaky boop, and pseudo-medieval societies had tons of people with nothing and wanting something. Go after them. They won't be top, but the town doesn't want top. It wants to be able to marry someone besides cousins.

Triaxx
2008-10-18, 06:20 AM
Have them run into a town that was overrun by orcs or the like and that was destroyed. A group of now homeless, just rescued slaves/kidnap victims, who had most of their family killed should be willing to go for the promise of a new house and food.

And should you be unable to find one, hire some orcs to do the job.

Tempest Fennac
2008-10-18, 06:25 AM
:smalleek:The party is mainly good, so that really wouldn't work. Also, wouldn't bribing people to move be more practical due to the Orcs being likely to kill the party for their money?

Quincunx
2008-10-18, 06:33 AM
Pay for a casting/cast yourself a nice Permanencied spell over the village area if you need an enticement. Also this might be an excuse to cover up the fact that nobody knew about the village previously.

"So there's this great village in the middle of nowhere, all it needs is population. . . .What's wrong with it?"
"Nothing's wrong with it! We're blessed! Can you imagine how people would swarm the place if everyone knew about it?"

Mind you, the lycanthropy is still very wrong in the minds of most players, let alone peasants, so that might be the stumbling block instead of the problem of merely finding unattached people.

JeminiZero
2008-10-18, 06:51 AM
Well correct me if I am wrong, but your situation boils down to the following
1) PCs are champion of hidden village
2) All villagers are were-skunks, but retain full control of their form and alignment.
3) Were-skunk villagers can only convert 1 person in a lifetime, and it must be their spouse.
4) However, they can still procreate normally with wereskunk spouse to have wereskunk babies.

The problems the PCs are facing:
1) The population of the small village is becoming rather inbred.
2) To help solve this, they plan to recruit fresh blood to enrich the gene pool
3) However, all newcomers must be willing to be converted into wereskunks, so theres the squick factor.

One point that is not clear is whether they must perform recruitment in a manner that keeps the village secret. I.e. Should the secret leak out, will some powerful enemy come bearing down on were-skunk-topia?

If secrecy is not essential, they can opt for open advertisement and recruitment, and simply tell the entire city (or cities) the truth of their village. As mentioned above, some people would be more than willing to overlook the were-skunk syndrome in exchange for settled family life with their own land.

Maybe offer an open dating service of sort. Something like an exchange program, where you escort prospective spouses in, let them live there for a while (provide shelter, food, and all that), and see if any of the villagers catch their fancy (or vice versa). Should they manage to find a spouse, well and good. If not, thank them for their time, and send them back, no strings attached.

If they have to maintain secrecy, then it becomes a tad trickier. Some form of future prediction, or mind-reading is essential, so that you only open the offer to those who will accept. Failing which some form of mind wipe will be needed to ensure secrecy (the CIA didn't have this kind of magic).

Mewtarthio
2008-10-18, 11:31 AM
The problems the PCs are facing:
1) The population of the small village is becoming rather inbred.
2) To help solve this, they plan to recruit fresh blood to enrich the gene pool
3) However, all newcomers must be willing to be converted into wereskunks, so theres the squick factor.

You forgot one final problem:

4) This village is home to the only theranthropes who are not invariably Chaotic Evil. Any immigrant who learns about the town's nature will immediately assume that the town intends to destroy his soul and convert him to madness and evil.

The solution here is to keep the immigrants in the dark for a little while. En route to the village, tell them stories about how you once encountered some non-evil theranthropes. Make sure you the mephithropes don't reveal their natures until after they've gotten to know the immigrants, so that the people will judge their condition based on their character, rather than vice versa. It's somewhat deceptive, yes, but honestly is frankly not the way to go unless you don't mind recruiting insanely evil people.

Other than that, it's simple enough: Just do what Stupid Tall Kid said. You shouldn't run into any problems except the ethical dilemma of what to do if an immigrant decides he's been lied to all this time and attempts to flee the village and bring an army of paladins down on your head.

DracoDei
2008-10-18, 12:59 PM
I think it was posted correctly. I'm guessing you can't really offer financial incentives for people to move there, right?
Janesville has a good bit of gold socked away to bribe people to leave them alone if they are discovered (will only put off the problem, but it buys them time to disappear).* Those funds could very be diverted tol pay for whatever level of enticement is needed to get ordinary settlers... "40 Acres and a Mule"... it doesn't take much...

*Of course, they ALSO have a military policy that combines guerilla tactics on the par with the Viet Cong with the "everyone has a weapon in their closet and knows how to use it" policies of the Isrealis (with Composit Longbows with MW arrows substituted for automatic rifles). They keep their options open...


Well correct me if I am wrong, but your situation boils down to the following
1) PCs are champion of hidden village
2) All villagers are were-skunks, but retain full control of their form and alignment.
3) Were-skunk villagers can only convert 1 person in a lifetime, and it must be their spouse.
4) However, they can still procreate normally with wereskunk spouse to have wereskunk babies.

The problems the PCs are facing:
1) The population of the small village is becoming rather inbred.
2) To help solve this, they plan to recruit fresh blood to enrich the gene pool
All correct.


3) However, all newcomers must be willing to be converted into wereskunks, so theres the squick factor.
Wellll.... yes and no. The elders of Janesville are perfectly willing to accept young married couples as part of the settlers for instance... those couples will eventually have children, and the children would be expected to NOT be guided away from marrying wereskunks by there parents...

One point that is not clear is whether they must perform recruitment in a manner that keeps the village secret. I.e. Should the secret leak out, will some powerful enemy come bearing down on were-skunk-topia?
Yeah, the Elven and Dwarven Empires would probably send in their armies, same as they would against an epidemic of werewolves, and with pretty much the same motivation...

Maybe offer an open dating service of sort. Something like an exchange program, where you escort prospective spouses in, let them live there for a while (provide shelter, food, and all that), and see if any of the villagers catch their fancy (or vice versa). Should they manage to find a spouse, well and good. If not, thank them for their time, and send them back, no strings attached.
Actually something like this COULD still work... Risky, in that the dating would have to be by letters or with a lie to explain the burkas since most of the population can't pass for baseline humanoid, and besides there is always the chance that someone will see something they shouldn't, even if they don't realize the importance of it at the time.


If they have to maintain secrecy, then it becomes a tad trickier. Some form of future prediction, or mind-reading is essential, so that you only open the offer to those who will accept. Failing which some form of mind wipe will be needed to ensure secrecy (the CIA didn't have this kind of magic).




You forgot one final problem:

4) This village is home to the only theranthropes who are not invariably Chaotic Evil. Any immigrant who learns about the town's nature will immediately assume that the town intends to destroy his soul and convert him to madness and evil.

The solution here is to keep the immigrants in the dark for a little while. En route to the village, tell them stories about how you once encountered some non-evil theranthropes. Make sure you the mephithropes don't reveal their natures until after they've gotten to know the immigrants, so that the people will judge their condition based on their character, rather than vice versa. It's somewhat deceptive, yes, but honestly is frankly not the way to go unless you don't mind recruiting insanely evil people.
Spot on, and they had already figured this... One small but potentially important correction: Natural born, non-homocidal theranthropes exist in this world, such as werebears, wereboars and... well look it up in the Monster Manual... what I have changed is that all INFECTED theranthropes are murderous Chaotic Evil rampagers when not in humanoid form, or if they ever willingly use their power. Another difference is that involentary shifts don't risk an alignment shift. Most people have probably seen a natural born werebear in the market-place in hybrid form to carry the goods he has come to trade... but they also know just enough to be nervous about drinking from the same cup as one at the very least (which would only be a problem if you had a 6 CON and rampant cold sores, and got a natural 1 on your Fort Save...but infectious disease tends to make people overly cautious)...

Edit: Note that theranthropes can only have children with others of the same type of theranthrope.


Other than that, it's simple enough: Just do what Stupid Tall Kid said. You shouldn't run into any problems except the ethical dilemma of what to do if an immigrant decides he's been lied to all this time and attempts to flee the village and bring an army of paladins down on your head.
See above... yeah... they basically have to imprison or kill anyone who tries to run. "They" meaning Janesville, not necessarily the party specifically.... Janesville has an allied Wing Dragon (See my sig for complete details, but basically has even better senses than a regular dragon, can see through clouds and mist, and STARTS with a fly speed of 200) living close-by who could be called on to track down fugitives*... the ethical delema is that they want to filter very well to keep that sort of "necessary evil" to a very bare minimum... and they can't seem to come up with the sorts of oblique questions that would reveal that sort of thing during an interview for perspective settlers.

*Naturally she will bill for her services, but only reasonable rates.

There current plan involves hanging out and getting to know people, seeing how they react to the "dire skunk" among other things... and generally finding likely personalities and then seeing if they are willing to relocate, rather than doing a cattle call for settlers and then trying to winnow them down to those who would actually be wise to take... the biggest flaw in that plan is that it is going to be slower than mollasses in January... they need a few hundred settlers before they will be shifting the genetic balance... Janesville has a population in the low thousands, but most of those live in secret tunnels below the surface town, which is inhabitted by those who can pass for baseline humanoid and their burka-clad families (both male and female)... And yes, there WOULD seem to be a flaw in the math/genetics there, but trust me, it all makes sense... I am not going to explain it, because while the end result isn't squicky, some of the conceptual steps to understanding it do detour into squick territory.


:smallsmile:Thank you all very much for your help. Please continue.:smallcool::smallsmile:

Jack_Simth
2008-10-18, 06:26 PM
There's a trick to the secrecy bit:
Go very, very FAR afield for recruitment. The farther, the better. If there's 8,000 miles between you and their hometown, and you don't recruit anyone who can Teleport, if they go back disappointed and tell someone what happened... it doesn't matter. You're literally half a world away.

Pity they're only 5th or 6th, though, and 3-4 levels away from Teleport....

Prometheus
2008-10-18, 08:37 PM
Well, none of the mephfolk want to have children with genetic defects, and I'd imagine that some of them are better off than others. The best off of them would pay good money to have an outsider come in to impregnate them or give a good life to an outsider who decides to marry and stay. While this would serve the richest first, doubtlessly the children of the rich could add to the gene pool. If the PCs use a finder's fee than they can sponsor the poor as well and feel slightly more ethical. Can the outsiders fornicate or adulterate? If so, then you needn't nearly as many.

EvilElitest
2008-10-18, 09:11 PM
Bump!
Come on? Not even one response? Did I not present it correctly somehow? If so, please tell me, I can't fix it if I don't know how it is broken...

Do some research of the real ways people tired to get people to move places, like the American move west or the british colonization.
from
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Hal
2008-10-18, 09:20 PM
This village would be an ideal location for two kinds of people: Those who have been displaced by disaster (or orc raids, whichever is appropriate to the campaign) and those who are being persecuted in their current homes.

Find those people.

JeminiZero
2008-10-18, 09:49 PM
There current plan involves hanging out and getting to know people, seeing how they react to the "dire skunk" among other things... and generally finding likely personalities and then seeing if they are willing to relocate, rather than doing a cattle call for settlers and then trying to winnow them down to those who would actually be wise to take... the biggest flaw in that plan is that it is going to be slower than mollasses in January... they need a few hundred settlers before they will be shifting the genetic balance...


There actually is a poor man's version of mindreading/mindwipe the PCs might consider employing- Alcohol. Firstly, get the PCs to open a chain of drinking halls (or whatever) around the various cities. Get those villagers who can pass for human to help out, to speed things up.

Next, get prospective candidates *slightly* drunk, and then ask them rather blunt survey questions. "What do you think of were-skunks" and "Would you be willing to marry one in exchange for your own land" and all that. The inebriated condition should make them more likely to tell the truth. Offer those who respond positively the standard package (maybe the dating service mentioned above).

For those who respond negatively, get them severely drunk, so they'll wake up next morning with no memory of what happened. :smallamused:

DracoDei
2008-10-18, 10:03 PM
Well, none of the mephfolk want to have children with genetic defects,
I was actually simplifying the situation... this isn't "inbreeding" as we know it in the real world, but the solution is the same... basically (I just figured out how to partially explain this without the detour through TOO much squick), The Bite works as an Awaken spell on regular skunks, that also makes them fully wereskunk. This gets around the problems of real world inbreeding, but at a cost. The drawback is that after too many generations of this, the off-spring will start tonot be able to access some of the humanoid traits. Mental faculties are usually perserved (the worst it gets is a -2 to INT), but hips made for bipedalism, mouth and tongue well suited to clear speech, opposable thumbs, lack of a tail and/or snout... all of these are things that the children might not be able to manage. Also, past a certain point on certain traits, fertility is dramatically reduced between "low quality" individuals (a providential thing, since that is why the INT penalties doen't get worse than -2). In any case, The worst off wereskunk is much better off than a dire skunk Awakened by a druid's spell.... with the possible exception of the INT penalty. (Oh, and technically, Mepholk would be the de-theranthroped version of wereskunks that I made for one of VTs contests because he doesn't allow templates).

and I'd imagine that some of them are better off than others. The best off of them would pay good money to have an outsider come in to impregnate them or give a good life to an outsider who decides to marry and stay. While this would serve the richest first, doubtlessly the children of the rich could add to the gene pool.
Due to s quirk of the situation it actually works the other way around. Almost no matter how badly off someone is, their children with someone who was born baseline humanoid will be without flaw (except that the number of generations of "marrying into the other side of the family" that that bloodline can go without flaws reappearing will be larger). It is the worst off genetically who would be the priority in some regards. Also, the stigma of the defects is actually quite low, affecting only marriage prospects for the most part, and even that is seen as "unfortunate but necessary". The teachings of Allurehn only got fleshed out a bit, not altered in the aspects that previously existed when I reworked wereskunks to create Mepholk.

If the PCs use a finder's fee than they can sponsor the poor as well and feel slightly more ethical.
The amount of resources Janesville has put into supporting the group, etc could be considered a group "finders fee"... beyond that, very few wereskunks would stoop to being that "greedy" as to bias the selection processes of the settler hunters towards themselves personally... Janesvillites tend to be intensely loyal to their neighbors. OTOH if an individual has something especially unusual they are looking for in a spouse, they wouldn't hesitate to place a "special order" but no money would be likely to change hands... that is what their taxes go towards as far as continued support of the party...

Can the outsiders fornicate or adulterate? If so, then you needn't nearly as many.
GAH! No, they have to get Bit by their spouse to be fertile with them in the first place, and in the second, wereskunks are loyal enough to Allurehn that they wouldn't stand for that even if it would work. Ick! Sorry, but that just goes entirely against the themes that I have built into this campaign, and the personal convictions that motivated those themes. That being said, the domain spells of Allurehn probably include ones that can serve as the magical version of artificial insemination... but part of the punative aspect of the curse is that those don't work with wereskunks right now... but she might remove that particular part of the curse any century now, althouygh she will probably make widows and widowers who remarry fertile again before she does that (currently they aren't...).

DracoDei
2008-10-23, 12:27 PM
Forum discussion dump:


[12:07] <Boreger> DracoDei, first of all, you could make a Goldrush scenario.
[12:08] <Boreger> There is a small village with a lot of gold around it, go there and you will find...ehe...some shapeshifters.
[12:09] * Sabretoothed_kitty yawns and crawls to bed.
[12:09] <Sabretoothed_kitty> Good night, I think I have to go as I can't think straight any more.
[12:09] <Boreger> Second, the Cult. Simply the PCs have to make a fake cult, which sought a heavens in the far away village for the belivers.
[12:09] * Sabretoothed_kitty curls up on the bed.
[12:09] *** Sabretoothed_kitty is now known as Sabretoothed_kitty[sleep]
[12:10] <Boreger> Sleep well Sabretoothed_kitty[sleep]
[12:10] <Boreger> Also the cult is good way to select for the nontolerant members.
[12:12] <DracoDei> So in the first case you don't mention the TYPE of shapeshifter?
[12:13] <Boreger> Nope. Simply making rumors about some big fat prize.
[12:14] <DracoDei> Farmable land for free to anyone willing to work it is enough of a fat prize in most cases.
[12:16] <Boreger> And there is the disgrunted peasant scenario. The PCs check the taverns, and ask about the Lords of that land, and tells them stories about your village.
[12:17] <Boreger> That case enough if they gives hints about the directions, and set a "welcome parties" one or two days from the village.
[12:17] <DracoDei> Also good for finding people who want some place new... but that has never been a problem...
[12:18] <Boreger> That case possible to turn back the unwanted ones.
[12:19] <DracoDei> Yeah, but how do you TELL the unwanted ones, without creating a security problem?
[12:19] <Boreger> Scaring the **** out them?
[12:20] <DracoDei> I mean telling them from the ones you do want as settlers.
[12:23] <Boreger> Simple, the new settlers comes without escort. About one weeks away from the village one party awaits them in a beast from witha friendly manners. Camping next to the road or whatever. If the settlers attack the welcome party on the next day they face with a wherewolf attack. And same on the next few days.
[12:24] <Boreger> Also the welcome party could gives hints for the new settlers about the village.
[12:27] <DracoDei> So in skunk-headed form with big fluffy tails...
[12:27] <Boreger> Also there is a scenario for freeing slaves. That case the PCs could attack a random slavetrader as a beast, and freeing the slaves and telling them to join to the village.
[12:27] <DracoDei> That could theoretically work...
[12:33] <Boreger> Also, the party could search for the treehugger ones. That could makes some more roleplaying. The party asking around the taverns for a witches, lonesome hunters, or other nutjobs. Every society knows some peoples whom prefer the nature more than the humanity. Also some society outcast these peoples. "Yeah i know one, check the slighly burned house at the end of the village.""Ya' know, there was some fuss with torches and f
[12:33] <Boreger> orks when that guy not showed up at the temple...."
[12:39] <Boreger> You could combine the scenarios, like spreading rumors in the treehuggers about some heavenly place where the humans and animals lives happily together. Etc, etc...
[12:40] <DracoDei> Good thoughts.
[12:46] <Boreger> Or you could goes to the Clive Baker & Frank Herbert & Charles Dickens way. That case the party collects orphans from the streets or freeing them from a thief clan. The most of such kid will happily follows even the devil, if they got a food three times a day and a warm blanket.
[12:47] <DracoDei> Yes...
[12:48] <DracoDei> And if they happen to be down a hand or an eye, so much the better... (wereskunks have starfish level regeneration... no use in a fight (unlike a troll's), but very nice for not paying the price for mundane accidents).
[12:48] <DracoDei> Sword through the heart or whatever still kills them... not as durable as a starfish, just that as long as they are alive they can slowly regrow missing bits.
[12:53] <Boreger> Yup. Could be done as the "Interview with a vampire" style. "Pal, i'm feels sorry for you being crippled. I know a cure but it has a price..."