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Cuddly
2008-10-16, 03:14 PM
What are some spells where 30 or 40 CL make them really good?
Word of Chaos, Blasphemy, Dictum, and Holy Word are obvious choices.

MeklorIlavator
2008-10-16, 03:22 PM
Gate's calling function, as you are limited to controlling things with HD under twice your caster level.

Fax Celestis
2008-10-16, 03:27 PM
Enlarged fireball.

No, seriously. A CL 30 enlarged fireball has a range of 3200'. That's 3/5ths of a mile. With no range increment or attack roll, so it has 100% accuracy too. All kinds of explosion there. Couple with invisible spell from Cityscape for untrackable, invisible explosions from half-miles away with unerring accuracy. For more fun, add explosive spell.

Telonius
2008-10-16, 03:30 PM
Dispel Magic
Destroying an Artifact or an Antimagic Field with Disjunction (Doesn't make it "really good" per se, but it does increase the chance of it working)

Fan
2008-10-16, 03:31 PM
Enlarged fireball.

No, seriously. A CL 30 enlarged fireball has a range of 3200'. That's 3/5ths of a mile. With no range increment or attack roll, so it has 100% accuracy too. All kinds of explosion there. Couple with invisible spell from Cityscape for untrackable, invisible explosions from half-miles away with unerring accuracy. For more fun, add explosive spell.

I.... think I love you Fax.:smallbiggrin:

Also.. Missile mage. Dig it.

Cuddly
2008-10-16, 03:33 PM
Enlarged fireball.

No, seriously. A CL 30 enlarged fireball has a range of 3200'. That's 3/5ths of a mile. With no range increment or attack roll, so it has 100% accuracy too. All kinds of explosion there. Couple with invisible spell from Cityscape for untrackable, invisible explosions from half-miles away with unerring accuracy. For more fun, add explosive spell.

Oooh, delightful. Use Substitute Energy: Acid for demolishing things from very far away.


Dispel Magic
Destroying an Artifact or an Antimagic Field with Disjunction (Doesn't make it "really good" per se, but it does increase the chance of it working)


But Dispel Magic caps at +10.

The best dispeller is a Psion. Level 8 with Psychic Mastery and Overchannel gets you a dispel check of 40.

Eldariel
2008-10-16, 04:55 PM
Disjunction. Get to 50% to blow up artifacts or anti-magic fields.

Wings of Flurry. And any uncapped damage spells for that matter (e.g. Maw of Chaos). Gate is probably the most important one though.

Tehnar
2008-10-16, 05:28 PM
The best dispeller is a Psion. Level 8 with Psychic Mastery and Overchannel gets you a dispel check of 40.

I think by the RAW psionic dispel doesn't work that way as you can only get a maximum of +20 to CL on dispell psionics.


BTT: Getting a high enough manifester level is also powerfull. And with a high enough CL those 1h/CL buffs will last you a few days (add extend ofc). High enough even extended 10min/CL will last the whole day.

Asheram
2008-10-16, 05:40 PM
Enlarged fireball.

No, seriously. A CL 30 enlarged fireball has a range of 3200'. That's 3/5ths of a mile. With no range increment or attack roll, so it has 100% accuracy too. All kinds of explosion there. Couple with invisible spell from Cityscape for untrackable, invisible explosions from half-miles away with unerring accuracy. For more fun, add explosive spell.

Gods... I think my heart stopped there for a second when my thought followed; What if you use this together with an Archmages High Arcana "Mastery of Shaping"?

Walking into the middle of town and dropping it at your feet... What Joy.. :smallredface:

Collin152
2008-10-16, 05:47 PM
Gods... I think my heart stopped there for a second when my thought followed; What if you use this together with an Archmages High Arcana "Mastery of Shaping"?

Walking into the middle of town and dropping it at your feet... What Joy.. :smallredface:

Doesn't that defeat the purpose of being able to cast it from half a mile away?

Talya
2008-10-16, 05:47 PM
Gods... I think my heart stopped there for a second when my thought followed; What if you use this together with an Archmages High Arcana "Mastery of Shaping"?

Walking into the middle of town and dropping it at your feet... What Joy.. :smallredface:

Did you mistake range for radius?

Glimbur
2008-10-16, 05:52 PM
Did you mistake range for radius?

I'm getting flashbacks to the Nuclear Winter Fireball from Hackmaster. Several mile radius, 40' range.

Yukitsu
2008-10-16, 05:55 PM
Dictum and holy word spring to mind.

Asheram
2008-10-16, 06:05 PM
Did you mistake range for radius?

:smallredface: Yes. Yes I did.
I'll go hide in a corner now.

Keld Denar
2008-10-16, 06:47 PM
Dare I say Locate City?

Double Dare I say Widened Snowcasting Flash Frost Energy Admixtured (Lightning) Born of Three Thunders Explosive Locate City?

Why settle for a medium sized space devoid of 19/20 life forms not inside of a building atm, when you can clear TEXAS?

Just curious, how exactly are you getting to CL so high? Greater Consumptive Field abuse, I'd wager, but ScMs can hit CL30 pretty easily as well, and Clerics are notorious for jacking up CL (combine a Bead of Karma with Divine Spell Power for +8 easy).

charl
2008-10-16, 06:52 PM
Why not Wish?

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-16, 06:55 PM
Why not Wish?No CL-based effects. Whereas the correct unlimited CL effect can be cheesed no matter what it is. I like Fabricate.

Cuddly
2008-10-16, 07:12 PM
I think by the RAW psionic dispel doesn't work that way as you can only get a maximum of +20 to CL on dispell psionics.

Why do people insist on saying "I think the RAW say...."? It's either as written, or it's not written.

But don't take my word for it! Look it up on your own!

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/dispelPsionics.htm

The bonus from ML and the bonus from augmenting are pretty explicitly different, btw.


And with a high enough CL those 1h/CL buffs will last you a few days (add extend ofc). High enough even extended 10min/CL will last the whole day.

Ooh, very good point.


Dictum and holy word spring to mind.

Mine to. :smallcool:



Dare I say Locate City?

DM's said nothing that can destroy nations until I get epic casting.


Just curious, how exactly are you getting to CL so high?

Beholder Mage/Ur Priest/ MT with DMM corrupt spell and theurgic casting (or whatever the feat from Dragon is that allows you to add arcane and divine spells for an aligned spell).

BM gives me 2 CL per level, which then gives 1 CL of Ur Priest. MT gives 2 levels BM & 2 levels Ur-Priest. That's 4 CL/level for a corrupted spell.

I'm using a feat from a 3rd party splatbook (Bastards & Bloodlines) that lets me count as "any race" for pretty much anything, including PrCs. Pouring all my resources into grafted beholder eyestalks from FF, which are crafted by an artificer cohort. With enough 3rd party books, I've gotten their cost down to 0.15. Course, that's still 30k per stalk.

[edit]
Also, to prevent Gate abuse, it only summons things that are willing. Which isn't so bad, since I can't get Gate-ganked, either.

Swooper
2008-10-16, 07:34 PM
[edit]
Also, to prevent Gate abuse, it only summons things that are willing. Which isn't so bad, since I can't get Gate-ganked, either.
Interesting. He lets you play a Beholder Mage/Ur-Priest/Mystic Theurge and have an artificer cohort... And then worries about you abusing Gate? :smallconfused:

Pie Guy
2008-10-16, 07:41 PM
Why settle for a medium sized space devoid of 19/20 life forms not inside of a building atm, when you can clear TEXAS?


Look, pi*300^2 does not equal Texas. Could probably level New England, though.

Cuddly
2008-10-16, 07:47 PM
Interesting. He lets you play a Beholder Mage/Ur-Priest/Mystic Theurge and have an artificer cohort... And then worries about you abusing Gate? :smallconfused:

Gate abuse is so, so much worse. Basically I can summon ANYTHING I want, and it is obligated to obey me.

1. Gate Solar
2. Dominate
3. Free Wishes
4. Repeat.

Collin152
2008-10-16, 07:48 PM
Look, pi*300^2 does not equal Texas. Could probably level New England, though.

Texas = (N+1)^2

Chronos
2008-10-16, 07:58 PM
The Locate City bomb is overrated. It allows two different saving throws, both fairly easy to make (since the base spell is only level 1), and even if you fail both saves, you're only sent flying until you reach an obstacle, which for anyone inside a building is probably less than 10 feet, not enough to take any explosive damage. Really, anything that's likely to be affected by the explosiveness is probably going to be killed just by the two points from the Snowcasting Flashfrost Locate City, before you add on the Three Thunders, etc.

Cuddly
2008-10-16, 07:59 PM
Look, pi*300^2 does not equal Texas. Could probably level New England, though.

Interesting. While solving the following:


Texas = (N+1)^2
where N=517 and some stuff after the decimal,

that pi*(300^2) takes out Texas, and then some. Of course, Texas is no Alaska....

Suzuro
2008-10-16, 08:06 PM
Yeah! Go Alaska!...sorry....rooting for my state...



-Suzuro

Cuddly
2008-10-16, 08:13 PM
Hey, mine too.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-16, 08:15 PM
If you didn't count ice, we'd still be bigger.

Cuddly
2008-10-16, 08:32 PM
If you didn't count ice, we'd still be bigger.

Keep telling yourself that. I know how important size is to you Texans.

Pie Guy
2008-10-16, 09:02 PM
Texas = (N+1)^2

Can i sig that?

Collin152
2008-10-16, 09:47 PM
Can i sig that?

If you want, sure.

Mando Knight
2008-10-16, 11:05 PM
Look, pi*300^2 does not equal Texas. Could probably level New England, though.

Units? π*(300 mi)^2 could level Texas, easily.

Khanderas
2008-10-17, 03:00 AM
Originally Posted by Sstoopidtallkid
If you didn't count ice, we'd still be bigger.Keep telling yourself that. I know how important size is to you Texans.
We have a winner ! :)

ZeroNumerous
2008-10-17, 03:27 AM
The Locate City bomb is overrated. It allows two different saving throws, both fairly easy to make (since the base spell is only level 1), and even if you fail both saves, you're only sent flying until you reach an obstacle, which for anyone inside a building is probably less than 10 feet, not enough to take any explosive damage. Really, anything that's likely to be affected by the explosiveness is probably going to be killed just by the two points from the Snowcasting Flashfrost Locate City, before you add on the Three Thunders, etc.

On point one: Heighten it as far as you can(which is, admittedly, still only 4th level or so).

On point two: You'd be correct if they took damage based on the distance traveled from their original square. However, explosive states that they take damage based on the distance they would have traveled--10 feet to the d6 as far as I remember.

With, say, an Intelligence of 32(easily doable) and heightened by 3 you have a Reflex Save of 25 or d6/10ft potentially traveled. That's still easily capable of wiping out virtually any random city.

Talya
2008-10-17, 06:41 AM
Bah. Ontario and Quebec are both almost as big as Alaska, but actually have people in them, and only spend 4 months of the year frozen.

Irreverent Fool
2008-10-17, 07:15 AM
On point one: Heighten it as far as you can(which is, admittedly, still only 4th level or so).

On point two: You'd be correct if they took damage based on the distance traveled from their original square. However, explosive states that they take damage based on the distance they would have traveled--10 feet to the d6 as far as I remember.

With, say, an Intelligence of 32(easily doable) and heightened by 3 you have a Reflex Save of 25 or d6/10ft potentially traveled. That's still easily capable of wiping out virtually any random city.

It doesn't work at all. The area of effect isn't a cylinder or sphere, it's a circle. As a 2-dimensional figure in 3-dimensional space, the shortest distance to the edge of the effect would be up or down, and of no measurable distance. So 0d6.

And that's what I ruled when one of my players tried to do it. He was upset. Live by the RAW, die by the RAW.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72212&page=3

Fax Celestis
2008-10-17, 10:08 AM
It doesn't work at all. The area of effect isn't a cylinder or sphere, it's a circle. As a 2-dimensional figure in 3-dimensional space, the shortest distance to the edge of the effect would be up or down, and of no measurable distance. So 0d6.

And that's what I ruled when one of my players tried to do it. He was upset. Live by the RAW, die by the RAW.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72212&page=3

Um, hate to break it to you, but radius effects are spheres, or are you going to tell me next that fireball is really firecircle?

Keld Denar
2008-10-17, 10:19 AM
Um, hate to break it to you, but radius effects are spheres, or are you going to tell me next that fireball is really firecircle?

If you don't believe Fax, take a string. Tape it to the desk. This is your radius. You can rotate it around in a circle to get an idea of the area of the cross section, but you can also raise it off the surface of the desk including straight up and every angle in between. Everything within the radius will get hit by the "blast".

Really, the most questionable part of the Locate City bomb is not the geometry, but the application of metamagic. Whether or not the metamagic CAN recognize the presence of other metamagic, or whether each feat only affects the base spell. Its a matter of stacking, and given the precidence set forth by the stacking of Empower and Maximize (each only affecting the base number of dice (and Empowered Maximized Fireball is 60+5d6, not 90), one might rule that since Locate City doesn't qualify for anything other than Flash Frost, since alone it doesn't qualify for any of the other metamagic other than maybe Widen (Snowcasting is the exception to this, since it explicitely states how it interacts with metamagic).

Anyway, enough with the thread derailment. A thought did occure to me in another thread, though, is the reserve feat Minor Shapeshift grants temp hp equal to your CL as a swift action, which if your CL is massive, so are your temp hp. While technically not a spell, it still has very fun implications.

UglyPanda
2008-10-17, 10:52 AM
Anyway, enough with the thread derailment. A thought did occure to me in another thread, though, is the reserve feat Minor Shapeshift grants temp hp equal to your CL as a swift action, which if your CL is massive, so are your temp hp. While technically not a spell, it still has very fun implications.
You get temp HP equal to your HD, not your CL.

Cuddly
2008-10-17, 02:32 PM
Either way, I took Faerie Mysteries Initiate, so HPs are covered.


And I'd like to correct myself:
Psionic Dispel in both XPH & the SRD is worded funny in the augment description: you get +2 to your dispel check for each pp you spend, up to a maximum of +20 with a 5 pp expenditure.

I feel there was probably an errata for that, and that it capped it at +10 for 5 points.

Irreverent Fool
2008-10-17, 02:55 PM
Um, hate to break it to you, but radius effects are spheres, or are you going to tell me next that fireball is really firecircle?

You're absolutely correct, Fax. But locate city specifically lists its area as a "10 miles/level radius circle" instead of the manner of fireball's "20-foot radius spread". An unqualified radius would of course be a sphere. Must we continue this catgirl-murdering?

Lussmanj, you are also correct. Despite my arguments to the contrary in the thread about the bomb, using examples from the rules in multiple instances and for similar effects, one cannot apply the +2 damage from the flash frost feat to a non-damaging spell, thus negating the entire basis for the combo.

on the topic of high CL: Every spell benefits from a really high CL when fighting creatures with a high SR. Also, animate dead.

Fax Celestis
2008-10-17, 03:14 PM
You're absolutely correct, Fax. But locate city specifically lists its area as a "10 miles/level radius circle" instead of the manner of fireball's "20-foot radius spread". An unqualified radius would of course be a sphere. Must we continue this catgirl-murdering?

Ah. Well, carry on then.

Keld Denar
2008-10-17, 03:22 PM
Good thing this spell is strictly 2D then...wouldn't want any Underdark cities showing up on the radar, or mountaintop cities, cloud or otherwise flying cities, or any cities down around sea level even, provided that you are standing on a hill when you cast it. Granted, I'm pulling a little Reducto Ad Absurdum out of my behind, but I think my point is still valid. The surface of the world isn't flat, and it makes sense for this spell to be 3D, and if it is, then it would definitely work as intended...except that it doesn't work due grounds stated above.

I don't care that its wrong, I just care that you know its wrong for the right reasons! RAWR!

Where's XKCD when you need it?

hamishspence
2008-10-17, 03:55 PM
I think somebody would argue that it doesn't say that in the feat. Its a common tendency: to say "It doesn't say I can't do it"

Which book was feat in?

Douglas
2008-10-17, 04:00 PM
And I'd like to correct myself:
Psionic Dispel in both XPH & the SRD is worded funny in the augment description: you get +2 to your dispel check for each pp you spend, up to a maximum of +20 with a 5 pp expenditure.

I feel there was probably an errata for that, and that it capped it at +10 for 5 points.
I believe the +20 for 5 pp was meant as the total bonus, including the +10 for manifester level. It is not possible to augment the power by 5 without a manifester level of at least 10, so any such full augmentation would have a +20 total bonus on the check - 10 from manifester level and 10 from augmentation.

Chronos
2008-10-17, 04:51 PM
On point two: You'd be correct if they took damage based on the distance traveled from their original square. However, explosive states that they take damage based on the distance they would have traveled--10 feet to the d6 as far as I remember.Explosive Spell (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Explosive_Spell,):
If some obstacle prevents a blasted creature from being moved to the edge of the effect, the creature is stopped and takes 1d6 points of damage from striking the barrier (in addition to any damage taken from the distance moved before then).So if you're less than ten feet from a wall, you do take one die of damage (I was mistaken on that point), but you don't take damage from how far you would have moved, but only from how far you actually moved before hitting it.

Irreverent Fool
2008-10-17, 04:59 PM
I think somebody would argue that it doesn't say that in the feat. Its a common tendency: to say "It doesn't say I can't do it" Which book was feat in?
Frostburn. All the relecant info is in the link I posted above. It was a fun exercise. And yeah, that was pretty much the argument. That and 0 + 2 = 2.


I don't care that its wrong, I just care that you know its wrong for the right reasons! RAWR!
Oh I know it's wrong. I mean if we went strictly by RAW remember, Iron Heart Surge doesn't work on the stuff you want it to and can do such things as turn off antimagic fields. Also, there are several spells that don't do anything.

More on the topic again, my recommendation is still animate dead. Without laying out the spells to increase your power even further, CL40 allows you to control 160HD worth of undead and create up to 80HD at a time. The skeletal (or zombie) dragon template from Draconomicon allows you to bypass the normal HD limits on what can be made into a skeleton (or zombie), assuming you have a dragon handy to animate. And if you don't, you can always polymorph any object a rock into one.

You could also animate 160HD worth of 1HD human warrior skeletons and have quite the (easily killed) army, just for fun.

Fimbulwinter from Frostburn is another fun spell. It creates a wintery condition in an area of "1 mile/level radius, centered on you". The spell lasts for 4d12 weeks. Fun stuff.

Yukitsu
2008-10-17, 05:13 PM
Undead get burdensome to keep track of after a while. The only thing I use raise undead for is to make skeletal beholders, then live in their eye sockets while traveling. Beats walking.

Irreverent Fool
2008-10-17, 05:51 PM
Undead get burdensome to keep track of after a while. The only thing I use raise undead for is to make skeletal beholders, then live in their eye sockets while traveling. Beats walking.

Well that's why you only make one or two large powerful undead and deck them out. It's cheaper, too. But storming a small town with 160 skeletal warriors is just too cool not to do at least once.

Cuddly
2008-10-17, 06:12 PM
Creating undead is a good idea. I can pretty much turn the town graveyard into an army.

Zombie dragons would be fun, too.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-17, 06:15 PM
Creating undead is a good idea. I can pretty much turn the town graveyard into an army.

Zombie dragons would be fun, too.There are 3 basic methods of using undead that work. First is "Undead Bruisers", where you Summon 2 undead with as many HD as possible and point them at the enemy. The second is "Undead as a Plot Device", where you summon hundreds of Skele's and send them at the nearest town/army/Paladin. The third is "Undead Mooks" where you have undead that explode in a wave of negative energy when they die, and have your evil cats swarm the enemy.

Fan
2008-10-17, 06:17 PM
There are 3 basic methods of using undead that work. First is "Undead Bruisers", where you Summon 2 undead with as many HD as possible and point them at the enemy. The second is "Undead as a Plot Device", where you summon hundreds of Skele's and send them at the nearest town/army/Paladin. The third is "Undead Mooks" where you have undead that explode in a wave of negative energy when they die, and have your evil catgirls swarm the enemy.
Fixed that for you.
Albiet Undead Puppeh dogs would do better, or better yet baby kobolds!
The Lvl 1 adventuers would come in hordes!

Fax Celestis
2008-10-17, 06:19 PM
Fixed that for you.
Albiet Undead Puppeh dogs would do better, or better yet baby kobolds!
The Lvl 1 adventuers would come in hordes!

OHGOD

TUCKER'S ZOMBIE KOBOLDS

WHAT HATH SCIENCE WROUGHT!?

Fan
2008-10-17, 06:23 PM
OHGOD

TUCKER'S ZOMBIE KOBOLDS

WHAT HATH SCIENCE WROUGHT!?

Awaken them all, and set them loose on the local nursery,
Paladins across the universe would fall trying to stop you.

Irreverent Fool
2008-10-17, 07:20 PM
Awaken them all, and set them loose on the local nursery,
Paladins across the universe would fall trying to stop you.

Howso?

Awakened undead (Tucker's) kobold guardians... muahaha. I love it.

Fan
2008-10-17, 07:22 PM
Howso?

Awakened undead (Tucker's) kobold guardians... muahaha. I love it.
kbold BABIES. Is the key word.
Its against Paladin code to kill babies.

Irreverent Fool
2008-10-17, 07:33 PM
kbold BABIES. Is the key word.
Its against Paladin code to kill babies.

I don't think it counts if they're undead.

Fan
2008-10-17, 07:38 PM
I don't think it counts if they're undead.

Petty semantics.:smalltongue:
But, still Kobold babies that explode when they die.
Imagine the sheer terror you could work with a Epic Illsuion to make them look alive, and human?

Irreverent Fool
2008-10-17, 07:44 PM
Petty semantics.:smalltongue:
But, still Kobold babies that explode when they die.
Imagine the sheer terror you could work with a Epic Illsuion to make them look alive, and human?

Oh I'm sure you could do that without epic magic.

Step 1: Use actual human babies. Saves a lot of extra work.

Fan
2008-10-17, 07:53 PM
Oh I'm sure you could do that without epic magic.

Step 1: Use actual human babies. Saves a lot of extra work.

humans babies are hard to acquire, and they usually have a CR 5 eno****er aurding them.
(Have you EVER SEEN A ANGRY MOTHER?:smalleek:)

Darrin
2008-10-18, 01:54 PM
Couple with invisible spell from Cityscape for untrackable, invisible explosions from half-miles away with unerring accuracy.

I stumbled across invisible spell yesterday, and I've been meaning to ask about it... so, if I cast Summon Monster X, does the summoned creature show up as invisible? Or, hey, if I cast enlarge person on myself, do I become invisible?

And no level adjustment... what were the designers thinking?

Heliomance
2008-10-18, 02:39 PM
The most fun use of invisible spell is with obscuring mist. At first glance it appears to be pointless. But then imagine combining it with greater invisibility. You can move around invisible, and if anyone uses see invisibility or true seeing, all they see is a lot of fog. Win!

streakster
2008-10-18, 02:44 PM
Wait...what would Invisible Glitterdust do? It's an invisible spell for making invisible things visible...so would it make itself visible? Or ..or...

DIVIDE BY ZERO ERROR! DOES NOT COMPUTE!

Collin152
2008-10-18, 03:07 PM
Wait...what would Invisible Glitterdust do? It's an invisible spell for making invisible things visible...so would it make itself visible? Or ..or...

DIVIDE BY ZERO ERROR! DOES NOT COMPUTE!

It blinds things without eyes.

Prometheus
2008-10-18, 08:00 PM
Enlarged fireball.

No, seriously. A CL 30 enlarged fireball has a range of 3200'. That's 3/5ths of a mile. With no range increment or attack roll, so it has 100% accuracy too.
Somewhere in the DM guide (I believe it's there) they talk about how shooting a fireball through a tiny hole right that isn't right next to you requires you to make a touch attack against that hole. I'd imagine it would be something similar if you wanted to target a certain spot 3200' feet away. That being said, I could never find anything by RAW that says how far a humanoid can see, but there are a couple ways of houseruling it based on precedent I can think of:
1) humanoid is effectively blind, roll for concealment.
2) Make a low DC spot check. You are limited by either the shortest distance in which you can find your target or somewhere randomly within the smallest object you could see at the target distance.
3) Make a ranged attack with a ranged increment penalty. But what is the range increment on a fireball? One fifth the total range?
4) Use catapult rules for misses, but you still need a range increment and now you also need to decide what the check is.
5) Automatically hits exactly where it is wanted.

PairO'Dice Lost
2008-12-04, 06:53 PM
Somewhere in the DM guide (I believe it's there) they talk about how shooting a fireball through a tiny hole right that isn't right next to you requires you to make a touch attack against that hole. I'd imagine it would be something similar if you wanted to target a certain spot 3200' feet away. That being said, I could never find anything by RAW that says how far a humanoid can see, but there are a couple ways of houseruling it based on precedent I can think of:
[...]
5) Automatically hits exactly where it is wanted.

I'd say it would be option number 5:

You point your finger and determine the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball at that point. (An early impact results in an early detonation.) If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must “hit” the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely.

These are two different clauses. The first says that you can determine distance and height, with no limit; if you say "10 feet off the ground, 3000 feet that way," it works, no targeting required. If "that way" happens to have an arrow slit between you and the target square, however, then you need to make a touch attack to send it through, since that deals with accurately shooting the bead through a barrier, not accurately shooting it at the correct range.

Curmudgeon
2008-12-04, 09:28 PM
Personal spells and Permanency to make them last.

You cast the desired spell and then follow it with the permanency spell. You cannot cast these spells on other creatures. This application of permanency can be dispelled only by a caster of higher level than you were when you cast the spell.

Paul H
2008-12-07, 03:58 PM
Hi

Legion of Sentinels.

Attack = CL
Saves = CL
Dam = D8 + (CL/3)
HP = CLx2

Cheers
Paul H

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-12-07, 04:04 PM
Animate Dead. :smallwink:

Also, the wording on Permanency doesn't work that way. Logically, it should be based on Caster Level, but instead it is based on the Character Level of the caster.