PDA

View Full Version : Shrink Item uses



OverdrivePrime
2008-10-18, 09:19 AM
While browsing here the other day, I got turned on to the immense utility of the Shrink Item (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shrinkItem.htm) spell.

Now, to my simple mind, it's not clear what happens if something is contained by the item targeted by the spell.

If I cast the spell on a large banded treasure chest, do all the items contained inside get shrunken as well, or do they burst through the chest as it shrinks?

Same scenario for a large bucket of water. Does the water spill out the top of the bucket, or does the water shrink with the bucket?

It seems this spell has great uses for carrying equipment, removing obstacles (goodbye adamantine portcullis), thievery and practical jokes without end.

I particularly like Shrink Item when combined with permanency. Paladin: "Oh no, we don't have a way to get all these refugees across the lake before the orc army gets here!" Heroic Wizard: "Never fear guys, I brought along my plushie schooner!"


One further question. Can you put a shrunken item into an item targeted by shrink item? I don't see why you couldn't but it seems to border on abuse.
I'm thinking of said example of the shrunken schooner going into a large chest to be targeted by Shrink Item.

Emperor Tippy
2008-10-18, 09:26 AM
All up to your DM. The rules are less than clear.

OverdrivePrime
2008-10-18, 09:38 AM
All up to your DM. The rules are less than clear.

Hurrah for real life full ranks in diplomacy! Might have to start putting more ranks in bluff though...

As a DM, I'd personally halve the duration of both shrink spells if you've got a one-inside the other situation . But, if you've paid the XP cost for permanency, I'm A-Okay with rewarding that sort of investment. Start stacking things 3 or 4 deep though, and I might start to roll on random tables for magical mishaps.

This is a great spell for the cat burglar wizard, I think. Get in, shrink the item targeted into a tiny cloth duplicate, cast magic aura to remove any stink of magic on the item, and walk out clean as a whistle. Great for portable shelters and the like as well...

What are other people's favorite uses?

jcsw
2008-10-18, 09:52 AM
Giving poor defenseless children "doll houses", waiting a few hours, then dismissing it?

streakster
2008-10-18, 10:00 AM
Throw a ship/bonfire/boulder/plushy lump of acid at a foe. Insane if used in a throwing build.

Enemies chasing you up an incline? Toss a boulder or two behind you.

As has been said, carry a boat at all times. Also don't leave home without a wagon.

In jail? Walk out with the bars in your pocket.

Carry shrunken plushy water with you. A use will present itself. (Not least: Putting it in someone's pants, then whispering the code word.)

Profit!!! Take the dungeon with you as loot. No need to leave that huge statue or ornate altar behind, after all.

Shrink traps and deploy them about the battlefield.

With high enough Sleight of Hand checks, you can place items on an enemy. The uses are endless. (Campfire in their pocket, obviously...)

Have some plushy lava. Spend the XP to make it permanent. Never worry about locks, doors, items, pursuers, or enemies ever again.

Make a tiny fort and unshrink it in combat. Then just hide inside and snipe at your enemies. Hooray Improved Cover!

Carry corpses about, then animate when an army is needed. Great for keeping useful corpses about until needed. ("Oooh, that has a burrow speed? That could be handy..."

Your shrunken items cannot be magical, but they can have spells placed on them. Go wild.

mabriss lethe
2008-10-18, 05:12 PM
I've done something similar with an ogre mage character.

Since, as part of an OM's powers, equipment resizes itself whenever he changes shape, it's a great way to create some really nasty tricks.

Have a weapon made for a very tiny creature. and have it mounted as jewelry. only put it on after you've assumed whatever form you plan on keeping for a while. If you're ever disarmed, draw your jewelry sword and shapeshift. viola! as soon as you change shape, the weapon resizes to fit your new form. It'll return to normal as soon as you drop it.

The reverse of this was great for a thrower. Have a bunch of daggers made for as big of a freaking critter as you can. put your hands on them and then change shape. they'll scale down to your size category for as long as they're in your posession. Carry lots of them. go crazy.

kbk
2008-10-18, 05:26 PM
We caused Faerun to enter a long dark age in one campaign with Shrink item:


High level wizard sells a lot of his possessions to get a Wish spell and other materials to pull this off:

Casts shrink item on a 100 or so boulders.

Places Invisibility on the shrunken boulders.

Invisibility and nondetection on himself. Mindblank too.

Wish: I want no one to ever find out the identity of the attackers of my upcoming attack on Zhentil Keep. He's a lot more precise than that, but you get the idea.

Casts Fly on himself.

Flies high enough for terminal velocity and flies over zhentil keep and drops the boulders.

Cancels shrink item.

Boom.


Now, no one ever did figure out who did this, but they learned that it was really easy to do, so it was like a bombing escalation and all the major cities of Faerun were destroyed before magic was rewritten to stop this.

Flickerdart
2008-10-18, 06:10 PM
Well, a pretty good way to get back at some guy would be to shrink his item, if you know what I mean (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IfYouKnowWhatIMean).

Ent
2008-10-18, 06:25 PM
We caused Faerun to enter a long dark age in one campaign with Shrink item:


High level wizard sells a lot of his possessions to get a Wish spell and other materials to pull this off:

Casts shrink item on a 100 or so boulders.

Places Invisibility on the shrunken boulders.

Invisibility and nondetection on himself. Mindblank too.

Wish: I want no one to ever find out the identity of the attackers of my upcoming attack on Zhentil Keep. He's a lot more precise than that, but you get the idea.

Casts Fly on himself.

Flies high enough for terminal velocity and flies over zhentil keep and drops the boulders.

Cancels shrink item.

Boom.


Now, no one ever did figure out who did this, but they learned that it was really easy to do, so it was like a bombing escalation and all the major cities of Faerun were destroyed before magic was rewritten to stop this.

Ah, old Faerun.

FMArthur
2008-10-18, 07:27 PM
A friend of mine once shrank a Fighter BBEG's flying machine that he was using to escape off of a tower, causing him to fall to his death. Our BBEGs were of full caster classes from then on, as any caster worth his salt is usually prepared to survive a fall in several different ways.

Fax Celestis
2008-10-18, 07:59 PM
Disposal of corpses.

Dead bodies are considered objects by spells, so cast shrink item on them to hide the bodies.

charl
2008-10-18, 08:12 PM
The applications are limitless. Just think of the uses in a modern fantasy setting. Forget the suitcase nuke, they now come in pocket varieties!

Or for the more medieval setting? Who needs a crossbow, when you can have a ballistae in your backpack.

Flickerdart
2008-10-18, 08:20 PM
The applications are limitless. Just think of the uses in a modern fantasy setting. Forget the suitcase nuke, they now come in pocket varieties!

Or for the more medieval setting? Who needs a crossbow, when you can have a ballistae in your backpack.
Hm. Launch Bolt a Colossal crossbow bolt that was shrunk...you'd need a few days to prepare enough, and it's not effective, but it's fun.

Fax Celestis
2008-10-18, 08:21 PM
Disposal of corpses.

Dead bodies are considered objects by spells, so cast shrink item on them to hide the bodies.

I forgot to mention: if you're really into the macabre, do this: cast shrink item on a body, select the clothlike option, cast permanency, then make yourself a cloak of charisma or something out of it.

streakster
2008-10-18, 08:24 PM
I always meant to make a PrC that focused on this spell, ala the Master of the Unseen Hand.

And yes, siege weapons are a great idea.

Also, carry a wooden mannequin dressed like you about. When you need a getaway, just resize and animate it!

Just as question, if I were to Arcane Reach shrink item and shrink an opponent's necklace, would that then decapitate them?

kbk
2008-10-19, 02:28 PM
Just as question, if I were to Arcane Reach shrink item and shrink an opponent's necklace, would that then decapitate them?

Shrink item allows a will save for negation (objects). So an attended object such as a worn necklace means the wearer gets a will save. After that it is probably up to the DM exactly what happens.

Personally I wouldn't say a 3rd level spell could decapitate (save or death at 3rd level?!) Maybe make it like a weaker version of a strangulation-like effect. Its also much more likely (depending on the necklace) that the necklace will break than that a head will come off. So the duration would not be very long.

shadow_archmagi
2008-10-19, 02:33 PM
I forgot to mention: if you're really into the macabre, do this: cast shrink item on a body, select the clothlike option, cast permanency, then make yourself a cloak of charisma or something out of it.

But... at 1/16th the size, you'd need quite a few bodies. It'd make an amazing villain though; a master leatherworker artificer who makes clothes out of the villages he slaughters.

charl
2008-10-19, 05:44 PM
Could also be very useful for the smuggler spellcaster. No city guard thinks of confiscating miniature plush weapons because they could be considered contraband.

Glyphic
2008-10-19, 05:52 PM
But... at 1/16th the size, you'd need quite a few bodies. It'd make an amazing villain though; a master leatherworker artificer who makes clothes out of the villages he slaughters.

This sounds like Fun with tessellations!

Ravens_cry
2008-10-19, 10:57 PM
Could also be very useful for the smuggler spellcaster. No city guard thinks of confiscating miniature plush weapons because they could be considered contraband.
Well. . .if the spell was common enough, they would. After the 16th time the ruler was assassinated by a plushie crossbow, they would start to get suspicious. Ugh, they may even start cavity searches.

Person_Man
2008-10-20, 09:26 AM
Build a massive harpoon (64ish feet long).
Use Shrink item on it, so that it's the size of a normal harpoon.
Throw it into your enemy.
Say the command word so that it expands to full size.
Profit!!!

Meat Shield
2008-10-20, 09:42 AM
Kinda surprised no one has mentioned Hank Pym and the 'Pym particles' and his always having whatever item he needs in his pocket.

BTW, the strategic bombing in Faerun post is probably the best thing I will read about today. Thanks!

kbk
2008-10-20, 12:57 PM
Kinda surprised no one has mentioned Hank Pym and the 'Pym particles' and his always having whatever item he needs in his pocket.

BTW, the strategic bombing in Faerun post is probably the best thing I will read about today. Thanks!

Your Welcome

This was done by the same "Neutral" mage who had built a massive tower and filled it with expensive traps, which routinely killed rogues and small adventuring parties seeking fortune and glory. He even paid bards to spread word of the massive secret treasure his tower held, when it was really just a tower of traps. He rationalized that he was simply executing criminals.

Needless to say, the bombing finished his perilous journey to evildom, and he was adopted by certain devils who found out what he did (his wish forbade anyone on Faerun finding out about his bombing, nevermind other planes).

Since my Mage had witnessed him setting up the bombing, I already knew he was going to do it, but couldn't find conclusive proof it was him. I got to lead the campaign into hell to avenge Faerun.

save da chicken
2008-10-20, 01:57 PM
We caused Faerun to enter a long dark age in one campaign with Shrink item:


High level wizard sells a lot of his possessions to get a Wish spell and other materials to pull this off:

Casts shrink item on a 100 or so boulders.

Places Invisibility on the shrunken boulders.

Invisibility and nondetection on himself. Mindblank too.

Wish: I want no one to ever find out the identity of the attackers of my upcoming attack on Zhentil Keep. He's a lot more precise than that, but you get the idea.

Casts Fly on himself.

Flies high enough for terminal velocity and flies over zhentil keep and drops the boulders.

Cancels shrink item.

Boom.


Now, no one ever did figure out who did this, but they learned that it was really easy to do, so it was like a bombing escalation and all the major cities of Faerun were destroyed before magic was rewritten to stop this.

Awesome, could i sig' this?

kbk
2008-10-20, 03:52 PM
Awesome, could i sig' this?

Just leave credit where its due :-)

save da chicken
2008-10-21, 01:55 PM
will do =] and shrink kinda sounds overpowered (not that i care)

D Knight
2008-10-21, 04:24 PM
you know you could make mini iron golem that you could throw or drop and say command word for major damage. now i know you might say thats imposable but it is i have done the math just do not have out in front of me.

chronoplasm
2008-10-21, 04:36 PM
Cook a huge cauldron of soup. Like, enough to feed a village.
Cast shrink item on the soup.
Feed the soup to your enemy.
Make the soup return to its normal size.

aaron_the_cow
2008-10-21, 05:40 PM
In a 1st/2nd edition world that I played in there was a mage/archer who used the spell on a barrel with a shield in front and full of arrows.

Another mage dipped a rug in oil, lit it on fire, then cast the spell...awsome missle wepon...

quick_comment
2008-10-21, 05:47 PM
Cook a huge cauldron of soup. Like, enough to feed a village.
Cast shrink item on the soup.
Feed the soup to your enemy.
Make the soup return to its normal size.

BEST use of any spell EVER

Asbestos
2008-10-21, 06:50 PM
you know you could make mini iron golem that you could throw or drop and say command word for major damage. now i know you might say thats imposable but it is i have done the math just do not have out in front of me.

Alas, it only allows you to shrink non-magical items. I'm pretty sure golems are considered magical.

Get a sling, find a bunch of 2000lb boulders, shrink the boulders. Since the boulders go to 1/4000th of their original mass and volume they are now normal sized sling bullets (10 are 5lbs so a single bullet is 1/2lb) David obliterates Goliath.

If you're throwing Orc Shotputs you could be whipping shrunken 60,000lb spheres of iron at things. Now I'm curious as to how big this thing would be, so I'm going to indulge myself. The shot would most likely be made from Grey Cast Iron which apparently (thanks internet!) has a density of 7150kg/m^3. 60,000lbs = 27,215.5422kg
That means this super shotput has a volume of ... about 3.806 m^3. This would be, unless I botched the math, an iron sphere nearly 2 meters in diameter. Hmm, not nearly as large as I was expecting for some reason. Though, still nothing to sneeze at when its being thrown at you.

You could also find someone to create a 4000lb boomerang. Give it to that Talenta halfling that keeps getting on your nerves, say the command word when they're right about to catch it on the way back... Make sure you aren't standing next to them.


Edit: In response to the awesome shrunken soup idea... you can fit 946 liters of water (shrunken) into an 8 ounce glass. Fantastic.

Ravens_cry
2008-10-21, 07:31 PM
Shrink a bed of lava, but not too much, and use the cloth option. Take the resulting blanket and throw it over the head an ice/water based creature. Stand well back, and say the command word.

only1doug
2008-10-22, 05:22 AM
Shrink a bed of lava, but not too much, and use the cloth option. Take the resulting blanket and throw it over the head an ice/water based creature. Stand well back, and say the command word.

by RAW there is no choice in degree of shrinkage, 1/16 of the size is what you get.

Guinea Anubis
2008-10-22, 09:37 AM
Something I posted before.


As we all know Shrink Item can be one of the most cheesy spells, lets see just how cheesy we can get with it.

So here is my cheese I posted some time ago, a mental exercise on how to more or less make a tactical nuke with the spell Shrink Item.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shrinkItem.htm



Now the key part to this work is this line "You are able to shrink one nonmagical item (if it is within the size limit) to 1/16 of its normal size in each dimension "

Now take the normal Item Alchemists Fire
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/...alchemistsFire



Now since Alc Fire comes in a Flask that has a weight of 1lbs we can safely say this it is a 1 pint flask, thanks to Oil coming in a 1 pint flask and having the same wieght. Even if it does not it really does not matter.

Now for the math, let's say for the sake of easy numbers that one flask of alchemist's fire is a 16 in. cube.

Reducing it to 1/16 size in all dimensions makes it a 1 in. cube, letting you stack 163, or 4096, in the space you could normally fit one. This number (4096) holds true for any object, no matter what its original dimensions.

Now 1 cubic foot = 59.844 155 844 pint [US, liquid]

So at 20 level a wizard can shrink 40 cubic feet = 2393.76623376

So at level 20 you can only fit 2393 alchemist's fire in to a 1 pint.

So you Now have a Flask sized Nuke that can do 2393 d6 fire damge with 2393 splash damge. Since the rules for Shrink Item does not say that it changes the Items damge.

Ravens_cry
2008-10-22, 11:13 AM
by RAW there is no choice in degree of shrinkage, 1/16 of the size is what you get.
Aww. . .but that would be so cool to watch. Just find the right sized bed of lava then. Now THAT would be warm blanket.

ThrustVectoring
2008-10-23, 06:44 AM
If you polymorph a shrunken item into something else and then cancel the shrink, would that make something that is 16 times as large as it is supposed to be? Or would the polymorph override the shrink item effect so that the created object is no longer a shrunk object? Or would it be the same as if you polymorphed it and then shrunk it?

Anyhow, you can use shrink item to get around the 20 pound limitation for using a glove of storing. If the DM allows you to un-shrink as a free action as well, it means you could retrieve any object weighing less than 80 thousand pounds as a free action.

Also, how quickly does an item un-shrink?

only1doug
2008-10-23, 07:42 AM
If you polymorph a shrunken item into something else and then cancel the shrink, would that make something that is 16 times as large as it is supposed to be? Or would the polymorph override the shrink item effect so that the created object is no longer a shrunk object? Or would it be the same as if you polymorphed it and then shrunk it?

Anyhow, you can use shrink item to get around the 20 pound limitation for using a glove of storing. If the DM allows you to un-shrink as a free action as well, it means you could retrieve any object weighing less than 80 thousand pounds as a free action.

Also, how quickly does an item un-shrink?

the glove of storing uses a shrink item effect, i wouldn't allow two shrink item effects to stack in a game I GM'd

ThrustVectoring
2008-10-23, 02:35 PM
the glove of storing uses a shrink item effect, i wouldn't allow two shrink item effects to stack in a game I GM'd

well then, fill a bag of holding with shrunken boulders, go above someplace, turn said bag inside out and un-shrink them. Type IV bag of holding can store 1500 pounds of shrunken boulders, which un-shrunk is 3000 tons. I'm sure that is going to cause some serious damage. You can shrink about 300 pounds of granite per spellcaster level with shrink item (more for denser items, about 900 pounds of lead. Acquiring 3000 tons of lead could be a problem, however). So to accumulate that much would require casting shrink item 20 thousand times.

only1doug
2008-10-23, 02:49 PM
well then, fill a bag of holding with shrunken boulders, go above someplace, turn said bag inside out and un-shrink them. Type IV bag of holding can store 1500 pounds of shrunken boulders, which un-shrunk is 3000 tons. I'm sure that is going to cause some serious damage. You can shrink about 300 pounds of granite per spellcaster level with shrink item (more for denser items, about 900 pounds of lead. Acquiring 3000 tons of lead could be a problem, however). So to accumulate that much would require casting shrink item 20 thousand times.

I'd have no problem with that.

I'm seriously considering gathering lots of reinforced chests and shrinking them, place into bag of holding. use as portable barricade when needed, use to carry treasure when dragon hordes encountered. (last dragon horde we couldn't carry away more than 1/4 of it, really irritating) (swimming in the gold horde was fun though)

Flickerdart
2008-10-23, 03:44 PM
Hm. Couldn't Shrink Item be used to open locked doors? Just shrink the door. With enough creativity, you could Shrink peoples' organs and enjoy the fun. Shrink on a humanoid's skull...unpleasant!

Draco Ignifer
2008-10-23, 04:18 PM
Flicker - you can only use it on nonmagical items. A person's organ is not an item until removed from their body, in which case, it's a bit immaterial what you do with it.

So, does plush composition also mean plush mass? Or is it just the same shrunken mass, but made of a strange sort of cloth that masses a lot?

Flickerdart
2008-10-23, 04:21 PM
Flicker - you can only use it on nonmagical items. A person's organ is not an item until removed from their body, in which case, it's a bit immaterial what you do with it.

So, does plush composition also mean plush mass? Or is it just the same shrunken mass, but made of a strange sort of cloth that masses a lot?
The definition of "item" is pretty fuzzy. Enough arguing/alcohol, and it could work.

monty
2008-10-23, 08:13 PM
Enough alcohol, and it could work.

Well, that holds true for just about everything. I know a lot of interesting stories I've heard start with "Well, we were drunk, and..."

Fax Celestis
2008-10-23, 08:17 PM
Well, that holds true for just about everything. I know a lot of interesting stories I've heard start with "Well, we were drunk, and..."

"Stories"? I've had relationships that started that way.

ThrustVectoring
2008-10-23, 08:55 PM
another serious question here.

What happens when you glue a shrunk item to a non-shrunk item with sovereign glue, and then unshrink one of the items?

Also, can you apply sovereign glue on someone during a timestop?

If not, hold person would work well. Hold person, glue a shrunk cloth boulder to their torso, let it set, and expand it. Various sections of their body are now glued to points farther apart than is physically possible.

It would probably just remove the skin over the affected area.

monty
2008-10-23, 09:09 PM
It would probably just remove the skin over the affected area.

And if the affected area happens to be their face...

On the other hand, if they're held, couldn't you just CdG them a bunch of times instead?

kbk
2008-10-23, 09:13 PM
another serious question here.

What happens when you glue a shrunk item to a non-shrunk item with sovereign glue, and then unshrink one of the items?

Also, can you apply sovereign glue on someone during a timestop?

If not, hold person would work well. Hold person, glue a shrunk cloth boulder to their torso, let it set, and expand it. Various sections of their body are now glued to points farther apart than is physically possible.

It would probably just remove the skin over the affected area.

I think most of you are entirely too unwilling to imagine an item breaking from the stress. In this case I'd imagine the layer attached to the sovereign glue would break off. Simple as that.

Zeful
2008-10-23, 09:21 PM
And if the affected area happens to be their face...

On the other hand, if they're held, couldn't you just CdG them a bunch of times instead?

In Time stop? No, not at all.


I think most of you are entirely too unwilling to imagine an item breaking from the stress. In this case I'd imagine the layer attached to the sovereign glue would break off. Simple as that.
The weaker object would break which brings us to the important point: Which is stronger, ten tons of iron, or a man's face?

ThrustVectoring
2008-10-23, 09:22 PM
I think most of you are entirely too unwilling to imagine an item breaking from the stress. In this case I'd imagine the layer attached to the sovereign glue would break off. Simple as that.

rock has a higher hardness than normal human skin. Think superglue in real life, if you superglue your skin to something and then pull it away with extreme force, your skin has extremely painful issues well before the glue or the metal.

ThrustVectoring
2008-10-23, 09:24 PM
In Time stop? No, not at all.


its either time stop or hold person, whichever is easier to pull off. Sleep effects or hypnotism would be fine, too.

monty
2008-10-23, 09:26 PM
In Time stop? No, not at all.

I said "if they're held." Not in Time Stop, no.

D Knight
2008-10-23, 09:47 PM
if epic level you could turn house into cloth and never have to go looking for a smith, lab, or any other place because you have a place to go.

Kami2awa
2008-10-24, 07:06 AM
Well. . .if the spell was common enough, they would. After the 16th time the ruler was assassinated by a plushie crossbow, they would start to get suspicious. Ugh, they may even start cavity searches.

Or just Dispel Magic on everyone who comes through...

Oww...

ThrustVectoring
2008-10-26, 11:57 PM
Use a spellsword and channel Shrink Item into your meelee weapon. Variety of creative uses afterwards, depending on situation. Channel shrink item into your shield, then ready an action and attempt to attack any incoming boulders that some giant is throwing. Then find the shrunk boulder you blockshrunk, pick it up, and throw it back.

Or channel shrink item into a whip and make a disarm attempt, to make two simultaneous attempts to neutralize a weapon. Either the disarm could work or the weapon could get shrunk.

Also, what happens when you shrink a set of armor with someone in it?

Leewei
2008-10-27, 12:09 AM
One of my buddies had a brilliant use for this spell. Remember the passage in the DMG about costs for locks, doors, traps, etc.? Well, this gentleman had an adamantine dagger of acidity. He'd carve out the expensive dungeon features, then have our sorcerer shrink it for later resale.

only1doug
2008-10-27, 09:57 AM
Well on sunday my Gish learn't shrink item, not sure when i'll get around to memorising it but next time we have some downtime there will be serious preperations to be done.