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Meat Shield
2008-10-18, 09:40 PM
Are tehre any published age categories for lizardfolk? Next campaign is going to visit former PCs about ten years after we saw them last and my PC for that was a lizardfolk spirit shaman, so need to see if he is getting long in the tooth, so to speak.

sonofzeal
2008-10-18, 09:59 PM
AFAIK, few species have "official" age categories. To be honest, BoEF is your best bet here.

Hmmm....

Let's seee....

...page 31? Alright then....

....only mate every few years, lay 6-12 eggs, only 4-8 of those usually hatch, weak infants killed. Children are tended for about a year before they're expected to fend for themselves. Their fertility is listed as 75% while in heat, 0% otherwise, with a 6 month gestation period during which the mother is totally active. They can only crossbreed with Celestials, Infernals, Dragons, and Nymphs.

Sorry, nothing on age categories, beyond hitting "Juvenile" at 1 year.

Asbestos
2008-10-18, 10:16 PM
AFAIK, few species have "official" age categories. To be honest, BoEF is your best bet here.

Hmmm....

Let's seee....

...page 31? Alright then....

....only mate every few years, lay 6-12 eggs, only 4-8 of those usually hatch, weak infants killed. Children are tended for about a year before they're expected to fend for themselves. Their fertility is listed as 75% while in heat, 0% otherwise, with a 6 month gestation period during which the mother is totally active. They can only crossbreed with Celestials, Infernals, Dragons, and Nymphs.

Sorry, nothing on age categories, beyond hitting "Juvenile" at 1 year.

Man, BoEF is weird...

Best I can do is what appears to be straight up Hombrew (http://www.wakinglands.com/htm_files/races_lizardfolks.htm#tableselfdeterminedstartinga ge), but best I can find, and makes sense.

Meat Shield
2008-10-18, 10:18 PM
Man, BoEF is weird...

Agreed.



Best I can do is what appears to be straight up Hombrew (http://www.wakinglands.com/htm_files/races_lizardfolks.htm#tableselfdeterminedstartinga ge), but best I can find, and makes sense.

Works for me, thanks!

sonofzeal
2008-10-18, 10:31 PM
Man, BoEF is weird...
Only if you expect it to be porn or something. I mean, that sort of sociological/biological information should have been official, and seeing as how it isn't, I think it fits perfectly into this book. Really, the sociology information is probably worth the price of the book, nevermind that a lot of the spells are totally useful and appropriate in a PG campaign. Yes, a creative DM could make it up on his/her own, but having a complex and fairly nuanced system already worked out is usually a great help.

Oh, and it says Lizardfolk engage in vigorous domination displays and fights during mating season, but that to them the actual act of intercourse is a purely functional one with no emotional overtones. If anyone cares.

Meat Shield
2008-10-18, 11:07 PM
I should have explained - the BoEF is weird in the sense of "Wow, how do you spend this much time and effort on this!" All of the mechanics and fluff were well thought out and made sense. Make no mistake, I was impressed by the book - I'm just too much of a prude to use it in one of my games.

sonofzeal
2008-10-18, 11:27 PM
I should have explained - the BoEF is weird in the sense of "Wow, how do you spend this much time and effort on this!" All of the mechanics and fluff were well thought out and made sense. Make no mistake, I was impressed by the book - I'm just too much of a prude to use it in one of my games.
Ah, that makes sense. Yeah, it'd be kinda weird and more than a little awkward to use it extensively in an R rated campaign. I've used spells and fluff from it in three different PG-rated campaigns though. If you're willing to go through and ignore the raunchy stuff, there's enough left over that most games could get at least a few useful things.

Example: Healing Sphere, 3rd lvl spell. Creates an orb of positive energy that sheds light and can be expended to heal people as CMW at range. Not the most efficient, but seriously useful purely because of how rare ranged healing spells are and how often you need to stabilize/heal a party member at a distance... or zap undead without getting into melee.

Asbestos
2008-10-18, 11:50 PM
I should have explained - the BoEF is weird in the sense of "Wow, how do you spend this much time and effort on this!" All of the mechanics and fluff were well thought out and made sense. Make no mistake, I was impressed by the book - I'm just too much of a prude to use it in one of my games.

Same, I'm not a prude, but I wouldn't be able to take a game with something like say... a Tantrist, remotely serious.

Doomsy
2008-10-18, 11:55 PM
The part that weirds me out are the nymphs.

I mean, I'm used to the fact that celestial beings, dragons, and demonic creatures will mate with [I]anything[I]but nymphs kind of bother me in that regard for some reason. I think it is because I've always associated them with the usual woodland crew.

It would make for an interesting explanation for some Yuan-ti esque woodland race of lizard freaks, though.

Jayngfet
2008-10-19, 03:34 AM
I was fed up with this so I made age catagories for every MM race ...and then lost them. I can proabaly redo it monday if you want.

Kalirren
2008-10-19, 02:15 PM
Well, speaking as a biologist, if you're interested, I can offer some in-field perspective on this:

There is a strong correlation between the amount of time that an infant spends dependent upon its parents and the species' expected lifespan.

I believe that there is also a trend that reptiles age slower than comparably sized humans. They also do not decline as quickly into old age. (x2 for maturity, x4 for middle-age/old age penalties? sounds reasonable to me.)

So if a lizardman hits juvenile around 1 year, estmate that it'll be independent by about 5, and then multiply by two. So you're looking at an age table that looks about like this:

Juvenile: 1 year
Adolescent: 5 years
Adult: 10 years
Middle-aged: 40 years
Old: 75 years
Venerable: 110 years

Quite reasonable.

Epinephrine
2008-10-19, 03:04 PM
Well, speaking as a biologist, if you're interested, I can offer some in-field perspective on this:

There is a strong correlation between the amount of time that an infant spends dependent upon its parents and the species' expected lifespan.

For mammals. Not so much for other classes of animal.


I believe that there is also a trend that reptiles age slower than comparably sized humans. They also do not decline as quickly into old age. (x2 for maturity, x4 for middle-age/old age penalties? sounds reasonable to me.)

Given that reptiles are the longest lived species of the more advanced animals, with tortoises etc. living over 2 centuries, and even small snakes living 20+ years, I'd say they should easily outstrip humans for longevity.

Now, if they were molluscs they could have REALLY long lifespans. Oldest animal ever discovered was a 400 year old clam, and there is record of a shell indicating an 800 year old clam, but it wasn't alive when found.

Meat Shield
2008-10-19, 03:24 PM
Well, speaking as a biologist, if you're interested, I can offer some in-field perspective on this:

There is a strong correlation between the amount of time that an infant spends dependent upon its parents and the species' expected lifespan.

I believe that there is also a trend that reptiles age slower than comparably sized humans. They also do not decline as quickly into old age. (x2 for maturity, x4 for middle-age/old age penalties? sounds reasonable to me.)

So if a lizardman hits juvenile around 1 year, estmate that it'll be independent by about 5, and then multiply by two. So you're looking at an age table that looks about like this:

Juvenile: 1 year
Adolescent: 5 years
Adult: 10 years
Middle-aged: 40 years
Old: 75 years
Venerable: 110 years

Quite reasonable.

Sounds good, and backed up with science! Huzzah! Thank you, Ghee-Chak, the Spirit Shaman and War Captain of the Voldorwood is now middle aged!

Jayngfet
2008-10-20, 12:41 AM
That's similar to what I was thinking, but make maximum age higher since they're smarter than reptiles and have prehensile thumbs for survival.

Vernerable 150?

charl
2008-10-20, 01:34 AM
There have been reptiles in ancient times that scientists believe never stopped growing and could, theoretically, effectively live forever. Nature isn't kind enough for that to actually work however, as animals eventually die by disease or violence.

However lizardfolk probably aren't scientifically truly reptiles. For one, they seem to be warmblooded. I'd just make something up, or use human aging.

Devils_Advocate
2008-10-20, 02:57 PM
Races of Faerun seem to be the best source of information on a few of the dismissively-termed-"savage" races, though that's not saying a hell of a lot. It answers this particular question in a rather half-assed fashion, by giving each race the same life expectancy and age categories as one of the PHB races. Well, at least that's something. Lizardfolk are matched up with humans in this regard.


As lizardfolk age, they slow down. Over the age of 60 or so, they do not care to do much more than lie on a warm rock and bask in the sun. When thes creatures die, they are consumed by the rest of the tribe at a ceremonial wake, their flesh becoming part of the tribe both literally and figuratively.

It's not like the mechanics for aging weren't half-assed in the first place. Apparently, humans in D&D are unlike the ones in real life, and reliably gradually become smarter throughout their entire lives. They don't just become more knowledgeable and experienced, which would be appropriately modeled by, y'know, giving older individuals more levels rather than mental stat boosts.


I should have explained - the BoEF is weird in the sense of "Wow, how do you spend this much time and effort on this!" All of the mechanics and fluff were well thought out and made sense.
That is weird. That's like trying to give D&D detailed and believable economies, or ecologies, or politics, or something.

Madness!

Starbuck_II
2008-10-20, 03:25 PM
There have been reptiles in ancient times that scientists believe never stopped growing and could, theoretically, effectively live forever. Nature isn't kind enough for that to actually work however, as animals eventually die by disease or violence.

However lizardfolk probably aren't scientifically truly reptiles. For one, they seem to be warmblooded. I'd just make something up, or use human aging.

What makes them warm blooded? Now Dragons are warm blooded, but Lizardfolk?

charl
2008-10-20, 04:42 PM
What makes them warm blooded? Now Dragons are warm blooded, but Lizardfolk?

Well, I don't know if it's been detailed in books, but my impression of lizardfolk is that they are able to be active at night, in temperate climates all-year round, and that they seem to be fond of living underground, despite that real-life reptiles need much more sun.

I just drew the conclusion that they are warmblooded.

Ravens_cry
2008-10-20, 04:50 PM
Well, I don't know if it's been detailed in books, but my impression of lizardfolk is that they are able to be active at night, in temperate climates all-year round, and that they seem to be fond of living underground, despite that real-life reptiles need much more sun.

I just drew the conclusion that they are warmblooded.
Ooh, ooh! If applying real world physics to gaming kills cat girls, what does biology kill?:smalltongue:

erikun
2008-10-20, 04:55 PM
Lizarddudes, apparently. Make your death savings throw! :smalltongue:

Kalirren
2008-10-20, 07:05 PM
For mammals. Not so much for other classes of animal.


Really? I didn't know that: I'd assumed it would be the same, since the reason why the correlation exists doesn't really change; the basis for the correlation between expected maximum age and duration of juvenile dependence upon adult caregivers lies in the fact that dependent juveniles whose parents die from old age are much less likely to survive into adulthood. I would surmise that the reason why there's little observed correlation in the case of reptiles is that parental death is that much rarer, juvenility is that much shorter, which causes other factors like disease and food availability to be much more important issues.

The only wrench I can throw here is that the increase in brain size/complexity necessary for the development of highly social, intelligent species would cause a corresponding increase in the duration of juvenile dependence. It might not be enough to counterweight the huge discrepancy in senescence, though. (see below)



Given that reptiles are the longest lived species of the more advanced animals, with tortoises etc. living over 2 centuries, and even small snakes living 20+ years, I'd say they should easily outstrip humans for longevity.


Eesh, I wasn't aware of the scale of that difference. 20 years for even small snakes? Compared to 2 years for a rat, and divide by 2 for moving up one step on the trophic chain, that's closer to 5x than 2x. So I guess we're looking at lizardfolk that live as long as elves, instead. *shrug*

Honestly, I think that this whole catgirls-thing (read: not applying real-world scientific knowledge to role-playing) is a depressing part of D&D culture, from which other RPG's don't suffer as much. Just because the D&D rules suck at modeling physics doesn't mean that your general approach to gaming has to ignore reality, people!

Devils_Advocate
2008-10-22, 04:09 AM
Honestly, I think that this whole catgirls-thing (read: not applying real-world scientific knowledge to role-playing) is a depressing part of D&D culture, from which other RPG's don't suffer as much. Just because the D&D rules suck at modeling physics doesn't mean that your general approach to gaming has to ignore reality, people!
The point is that D&D fails to model the real world in much the same way that chess fails to calculate the digits of pi. If you try to calculate pi by playing chess, or expect that playing chess will calculate pi, you're probably gonna be disappointed, and not because there's anything wrong with chess.

Opposition to catgirl-killing does not imply that one cannot or does not enjoy realistic games, just that one prefers not to drag realism kicking and screaming into a context from which it would rather flee like a frightened squirrel. It is possible for the same person to play in both a D&D campaign and a GURPS campaign. It is even possible for that person to recognize that those campaigns are two different things. :smallcool:

Teron
2008-10-22, 04:39 AM
AFAIK, few species have "official" age categories. To be honest, BoEF is your best bet here.

Hmmm....

Let's seee....

...page 31? Alright then....

....only mate every few years, lay 6-12 eggs, only 4-8 of those usually hatch, weak infants killed. Children are tended for about a year before they're expected to fend for themselves. Their fertility is listed as 75% while in heat, 0% otherwise, with a 6 month gestation period during which the mother is totally active. They can only crossbreed with Celestials, Infernals, Dragons, and Nymphs.

Sorry, nothing on age categories, beyond hitting "Juvenile" at 1 year.
That is weird. Who ever heard of a race in D&D with which humans can't breed? :smallamused: