[4E] Expanding the use of Action Points

[Lord Herman]

Right now, the only thing an action point can do is grant an extra action. However, sometimes there are dramatic situations where you wish you could do something more appropriate with an action point.

For instance, there is no way of using an action point defensively; I'd love to be able to use an action point to automatically dodge or block an attack, or possibly to get a large bonus to defenses for one round.

Or in some cases, you just really want a single attack to hit. And although an action point can give you a second chance to hit with an at-will, it's sometimes more important to hit with that daily power. So maybe an action point could let you auto-hit, or give you a large bonus on your attack?

Could any of you balance savvy people tell me how far I could push the uses of action points without making them too powerful? And does anyone have any other ideas on what an action point could do?

[YPU]

Remember that since elite and solo monsters also have action points expanding the use of AP would also make them stronger. That leaves the normal and minions. Against minions getting another action would be the strongest action as it lets you sweep away more of them, so no balance issues there. Leaves your everyday normal type creature. I’m not sure how it would change the balance on them. Auto hits would be to strong in any case. A bonus could be relatively large, perhaps +5 or +3?

[Kurald Galain]

Right now, the only thing an action point can do is grant an extra action. However, sometimes there are dramatic situations where you wish you could do something more appropriate with an action point.

That's a good point. Something that many RPGs have, and D&D doesn't, is a mechanic that lets you succeed (or gives you a much better chance) on rolls when you really have to.

At first glance, that's what APs are intended for, but on a closer look, they really don't do that. They appear to be a kludge to accomodate players for running out of daily powers.

So, a suggested variant: you may spend an action point for a reroll of any die roll by you (including skill checks and damage rolls, if you want), or any attack roll made against you. You ignore the former result. You may do this as often as you like, as long as you have action points left. Conversely, you don't gain free action points every other encounter, but the DM should award them for cool stunts and good roleplaying.

[its_all_ogre]

read paragon paths, many of them give additional options (like reroll and attack that missed like you just said).
secondly you can get the defence boost, do normal action and use action point to go all defence for +2 to all defences i believe it is.

[Edge of Dreams]

My favorite version of action point use is, I think, what 3.5 eberron does - spend an action point to add 1d6 to any d20 roll.

[Starsinger]

My favorite version of action point use is, I think, what 3.5 eberron does - spend an action point to add 1d6 to any d20 roll.

And then you roll two ones and feel like a little kid who accidentally let go of their balloon.

[Edge of Dreams]

And then you roll two ones and feel like a little kid who accidentally let go of their balloon.

True enough. You could always let people action point after knowing the outcome of the roll. I like the idea of an action point being a significant boost but not a guarantee.

[Starsinger]

True enough. You could always let people action point after knowing the outcome of the roll. I like the idea of an action point being a significant boost but not a guarantee.

I'd prefer a flat bonus to a random one.

[Townopolis]

Humans have a feat or two that allow them to get other bonuses from action points. Action Surge gives +3 to attack whenever they use an action point.

Not a fix, but I'd point out that allowing people to spend AP for + to attack might feel like stepping on humans' toes. If you were to expand AP, I'd say allow players to spend an AP to add or subtract 3 from any roll before it is rolled, then change Action Surge so that it allows a human to pick any 2 effects when they spend an action point.

That, however, might be potentially unbalancing for humans.

[potatocubed]

And then you roll two ones and feel like a little kid who accidentally let go of their balloon.

Tangentially relevant, the mechanic that Mutants and Masterminds uses is that if you use a Hero Point to reroll a die roll and the die comes up less than 10, it counts as 10.

Also tangentially relevant, a mechanic one of my old GMs used (before action points in D&D) was that each player received a token at the start of the game. You could 'cash in' that token at any time to do something cool and/or useful - automatically hit, make sure you stabilise when bleeding out, that sort of thing - but then the token passed to the GM, who could hand it back to you later on to make sure you failed at something, save a villain's life, and so on. You have to trust your GM not to be a complete toad about things, of course, but otherwise it's a nice simple fix to any game that you think needs the addition.

[Artanis]

There's also the problem that that that sort of AP usage would indirectly nerf other abilities. The Humans aren't the only ones who would be indirectly nerfed by the suggested AP usage, since the Halfling and Elf racial abilities also of their luster when you can use an AP to auto-block or auto-hit (respectively).

Races aren't the only ones that would be affected, as some classes have offensive or defensive bonuses that would have their niche cut into by such AP uses. Staff Wizards' defensive ability, for instance, would matter even less if anybody could auto-block attacks. The Reliable trait of powers (which makes them not be expended when they miss) would also be drastically nerfed by the ability for an AP to allow an auto-hit.


tl;dr version: Expanding the use of Action Points is fine, but the expansions in the OP are not.

[Mad Wizard]

Have you ever seen the Fate system? My gaming group has taken a lot of effects that you can achieve with fate points in that system and given them to action points in 4e, along with implementing a system of aspects that allow you to get more of them.

[MartinHarper]

Do normal action and use action point to go all defence for +2 to all defences

Better would be to use the action point to use your Second Wind, so you can get the +2 to all defences and spend a healing surge.

[erikun]

Perhaps you're underestimating what attacking with two dailys - or even something as simple as Griffon's Wrath (-2 AC to target) followed by a daily. Heck, consider a Wintertouched/Lasting Frost Dragonborn Warlock: move, breathe with cold, hit everything with Coldfire Vortex, then follow it up with Tendrils of Thuban. Lots and lots of damage, and they haven't had a chance to respond! 4e is very much concerned about positioning and damage management, and dealing 6[W] at lower levels - or 12[W] at higher - can knock out an enemy faster than otherwise anticipated.

Still, if you wanted to use AP for other activities, I would say... 1 AP for +10 to any one attack, defense, skill check, or savings throw. Doing so would give a solid boost for when you "needed" to make a roll, but not guarantee it. You can still roll a 2, after all. I'm not keen on the re-roll idea - stepping on the Elf's toes too much - and I would still restrict spending only 1 AP per "scene", whether encounter or skill challange. I'm not sure that it takes away from the Wizard or Elf, as you can still use their bonuses in the same fight. That, and it is harder to recover AP than encounter powers.

[Kurald Galain]

Better would be to use the action point to use your Second Wind, so you can get the +2 to all defences and spend a healing surge.

Yeah, and better still would be to use the action point to make an additional attack against something. The best defense is a good offense.