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View Full Version : Flaw: Implacable



Epinephrine
2008-10-20, 10:18 AM
So, I have a character who has taken this flaw - it suits him, and it kicks in enough to be a real impediment for a warrior-type. I'm wondering a bit about how to interpret it though:

Implacable:
You refuse to retreat from even the most deadly of confrontations.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: If you move out of melee combat for any reason, you suffer a -2 penalty on all attack rolls, skill checks, and saving throws for 1 hour.

So, so far, I have played it that he doesn't leave one foe to go after another until his foe is downed - can be problematic, as you can be kept from the BBEG caster simply by having some mook appear beside you and swing at you - tada - you're in melee.

So, here are some questions I'd like feedback on:

1.) If you have a reach weapon, and can attack your enemy with it, are you in melee with him, even though he's not able to reach you?

2.) If an enemy is too close to hit with a reach weapon, can you step back to attack him? It's "retreating" in one sense, but it's not leaving melee in another - you leave his melee range, but you are stepping into your melee range.

3.) Can you move from one opponent to another opponent, provided you are in melee at the end of your turn, or is that too much flexibility? What if you never leave threatened squares, say a five foot step from one foe's threat zone into another foe's but you are leaving melee with one to enter melee with another (or more than one) - you haven't moved out of melee combat really at any point, but you did leave melee combat with one particular foe.

4.) Is overrunning an enemy considered entering melee with them, or could this allow one to get to an enemy farther in?

5.) Is being attacked with a melee AoO considered "being in melee"? For example, if currently not in melee (you dropped your foe), and you wish to move an attack another enemy, but doing so passes through threatened hexes, do you have to stop and attack the foe that would threaten?

6.) Is it considered "leaving melee" to make your foe leave melee? For example, you bullrush him into a pit, or use a Setting Sun throw to land your foe out of melee range. He's now stuck down/over there, and you aren't in melee. Can you go after another foe now, or are you screwed, because your action made you cease to be in melee with a still functional opponent.

7.) If you (or someone else) drops a foe you were fighting you of course cease to be in melee - can you use ranged weapons until re-engaged, or must you hunt for more melee?
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All this said, I took the flaw and I do play it up. He absolutely hates to break off from combat, and he'll insist that others fall back and let him hold them off before breaking away. He doesn't tend to use ranged weapons anyway, but he's not stupid and I'm not sure I see at as bad if he pushes deeper into melee (overall) while happening to get out of some melee. He's looking at using a reach weapon, to control a bit more ground and to support his team better, but I don't want that to limit him even more. Taking an AoO to get away from a puny foe up in front to wade into the thick of the battle is very much how I see him playing, but depending on how it is interpreted, he can't do so.

Magnor Criol
2008-10-20, 10:59 AM
1.) If you have a reach weapon, and can attack your enemy with it, are you in melee with him, even though he's not able to reach you?
I'd say so. But I don't have RAW to cite either way, just judgment. That enemy's going to do his best to close the gap, so it's not like he's choosing to be more than five feet from you. And it you're still using a melee attack to hit him.


2.) If an enemy is too close to hit with a reach weapon, can you step back to attack him? It's "retreating" in one sense, but it's not leaving melee in another - you leave his melee range, but you are stepping into your melee range.
Again, I'd say so, as long as you were stepping back to keep fighting, and not to leave - the intent is there.
Alternately, get your DM to agree that any reasonable warrior proficient with a reach weapon should be able to move his hands up the haft of that weapon and fight with it that way. My gaming group has always found it rather idiotic that you have to take a feat to be able to move your hands up a pole. I could understand, maybe, a slight penalty (-2 at most) due to a little awkwardness, but not that you simply can't do it.


3.) Can you move from one opponent to another opponent, provided you are in melee at the end of your turn....4.) Is overrunning an enemy considered entering melee with them, or could this allow one to get to an enemy farther in?...5.)...if currently not in melee (you dropped your foe), and you wish to move an attack another enemy, but doing so passes through threatened hexes, do you have to stop and attack the foe that would threaten?
Again, I think this is intent. "Implacable" says to me that you won't back down and won't shirk from attacking a foe you hate. This foe could be the BBEG if you hate him enough, or it could be even a group of people; so I think that it's fair that you could move from one foe to another, as long as you're attacking each round and not running off.


6.) Is it considered "leaving melee" to make your foe leave melee?
In this case, I don't think it would be. You didn't run away. If your foe is put in a place where you two can easily move to each other to resume combat, you should go do so, but if you've thrown/pushed him to an inaccessible (to you) area, I think it'd be acceptable for the flaw.


7.) If you (or someone else) drops a foe you were fighting you of course cease to be in melee - can you use ranged weapons until re-engaged, or must you hunt for more melee?
I don't see why you couldn't. This isn't some sort of mindless rage; it's just a sort of matter of pride, wherein you won't back down fro ma close combat with a foe.

The idea of AoOs presents an interesting idea: if your current foe (say, the BBEG) begins to run off, and gets his mooks to flood the area between the two of you to try and stop you, it might make sense that you accrue your penalties if you can't keep up with him, even though you're fighting his mooks; your single-minded focus on fighting him means you're sort of shaken up after losing him. Or maybe you have to make a Will save to avoid the penalties.
In this way the BBEG, assuming he's intelligent, could recognize your implacability and use it against you...