Fourth Wall Breaking much?

[Beholder1995]

I know that breaking the fourth wall is one of those things that OOTS does, usually for the sake of a joke.

Yet, in the new comic Haley and Celia actually used it to interpret the plot and prepare themselves for a battle. To me, it just seemed a bit cheesy.

My basic point is, doesn't it seem like #602 might have been taking it a bit too far?

[Thant]

Considering that all enemies of the Order are doing exactly the same thing from time to time (breaking the 4th wall), it is only fair that the Order is allowed to "see through panels" like everyone else. Everything for the sake of the plot:smallwink:

[Zordrath]

We even had the Oracle speaking of comic books, sequels, prequels etc so far... I think it's only fair the Order gets to do the same thing from time to time :smallbiggrin:

[Beholder1995]

Right, but they were all solely for joke purposes. Well... I think...

In this case, it may actually change the plot/circumvent something relatively major that would've happened otherwise. Specifically, them getting caught off-guard and dispatched/captured, etc.

[NerfTW]

No, I think it was just a more amusing way of setting up "I have a bad feeling about this" than normal. Old Blind Pete walked upstairs, the cleric got skittish, and Haley realized there was no reason for Pete to have left the room. Therefore, she got suspicious.

That it was also triggered by a scene wipe is just secondary. They've done the "If it's a cliche, it will happen" thing before, usually with Elan.

Besides, Haley probably would have heard them coming into the house anyways.

[AKA_Bait]

I wouldn't say they were soley for joke purposes. "I think I just failed a spot check" is just as much breaking the 4th wall and has an immediate impact on the order's well being. It's a running gag in the comic. Just let it be.

[DigoDragon]

It's a running gag in the comic. Just let it be.

I think the entire comic has been a running gag since page 1. :smallwink:

[Querzis]

I gotta say I dont understand why there is always so many people saying : «You broke the fourth wall» every two or three comic when I though it was obvious from the start that there is no freaking fourth wall in that comic so how could they break it?

But by the way Bait «I think I just failed a spot check» doesnt break the fourth wall at all. That just the rules of the world were they live and they are aware of it just like we are aware of the physic of our world. Everytime the characters talk about D&D rules its not because there is no fourth wall but because they live in a world that freaking operate with D&D rules so of course they know about it.

[Samurai Jill]

...in the new comic Haley and Celia actually used it to interpret the plot and prepare themselves for a battle. To me, it just seemed a bit cheesy.
Yeah, I kinda got that feeling too. Having major plot events potentially hinge around fundamentally silly circumstances sort of undermines the drama for me. Not that there's anything wrong with breaking the fourth wall by itself, but I'd prefer it stayed irrelevant to anything serious.

...And not that it's a bad strip overall, of course.

[NerfTW]

But it's not really based entirely on breaking the fourth wall. Pete was shown going to the bathroom early in the strip. He isn't back yet, despite a very long conversation occurring. Haley and the cleric both noticed this, therefore the logical conclusion is to get suspicious.

[Kaytara]

It's not really different from "Crap! I had the urge to say 'Hopefully, the others have had an easier time.' You know what this means, don't you?!"

If the Giant wanted Haley and the others to be prepared ahead of time, he could've done it without breaking the fourth wall and without making the joke. Even if the others didn't realise they needed to prepare, it'd take Haley about a second to get her bow if the Thieves Guild just appeared suddenly breaking down the door. Either way, nothing would've been too different.

[Doug Lampert]

Right, but they were all solely for joke purposes. Well... I think...

In this case, it may actually change the plot/circumvent something relatively major that would've happened otherwise. Specifically, them getting caught off-guard and dispatched/captured, etc.Yeah, it's not like there's ANY possible other way for them to realize they are being sold out (see rest of comentary for counterexamples).

And of course all previous breaks have been jokes with no impact on the action. It's not like he's ever done anything as cheezy as having a major antagonist hauled off by lawyers as a copyright infringement not just once (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0032.html) (also eliminating the foe for the following comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0033.html)) and then doing it again (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0065.html). Nope, no influence on the plot there....

[Sinewmire]

If the Giant wanted Haley and the others to be prepared ahead of time, he could've done it without breaking the fourth wall and without making the joke.

Exactly.

:haley: He's been gone a while...
(Cleric) I'd trust him with my life. Mind you, I don't have any points in Sense Motive...
:haley: I'll get my bow.

or something like that would have worked(ish), but unlike me Mr Burlew has comedic talent.

[Sylphy]

Please, don't take a webcomic that has no problem making fun of itself on a regular basis too seriously. Just chuckle and tune in for the next segement.

[Tholok Razescar]

Aw, Christ. It's happened AGAIN? *grabs broom* *sweeps pieces of fourth wall together*
Dummit. Does anybody have the top left corner?

[Lamech]

It doesn't really affect the plot, all that much. "Isn't he taking to long for the bathroom? He is acting a little odd. Somethings up, he doesn't normally act like that Whats that clomping down the stairs?" All of those could have been done, except they are not funny. Although I can see were your coming from. In the Elan mini-plot most recently, I found the fourth wall breaking rather annoying at times. Mostly when he did the eulogy

[Mercenary Pen]

Blast! That's the fourth wall to break this week! Somebody go fetch wall number five...

Personally, I don't think that breaking the fourth wall for strategic effect is going to be so utterly horrendous as all that. I mean, Haley's been matched by Crystal- who is the exact same level as her and is better set up for melee combat (which- in a smallish poky basement- is more likely than running ranged battles), we have a Cleric who I think must be between 7th and 12th level (capable of a 4th level spell without a scroll, but not capable of a 7th level spell without a scroll) and who is wearing a red cloak (which some people are taking as his probably being a redshirt character), Celia who wasn't set up for combat really, but can shoot lightning, and Belkar whose Mark of Justice hasn't been lifted, but can probably do non-lethal damage (like tripping people)...

It could easily be that the Giant decided a surprise round was going to be too much of an unfair advantage to the heroes.

[Porthos]

I know that breaking the fourth wall is one of those things that OOTS does, usually for the sake of a joke.

Yet, in the new comic Haley and Celia actually used it to interpret the plot and prepare themselves for a battle. To me, it just seemed a bit cheesy.

My basic point is, doesn't it seem like #602 might have been taking it a bit too far?

How is this strip any different from this one?

"No I can't understand you, but I can look forward into the future to the point where this particular strip is complied into a book and just read the translation." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0330.html)

In that strip, the Oracle was breaking the fourth wall to get around a plot point, same as this one. If he was unable to break the fouth wall, he wouldn't have been able to understand Haley. And thus it's possible that she wouldn't have gotten cured.

No difference at all, really. :smallsmile:

[JonahFalcon]

I love it when they break the fourth wall.

Lien: Actually, it was your…uh…distinctive speech pattern…that made me suspicious.
Elan: (whispering) It's OK, Lien, you can say that it's his red-and-black speech balloon.
Lien: OK, fine, his red-and-black speech balloon.

[Hzurr]

Er...this happens all the time.


I mean, the characters are fully aware that they're in a comic (they hold poses for the Trade Paper Back, and discuss how certain scenes are going to be "splash pages."

If I remember correctly, there's a part in OtOoPCs, where Elan and an Innkeeper are talking, and the innkeeper asks if they want a room with a 4th wall. They discuss how popular 4th walls are, then they turn, wink, and give a thumbs up to the readers, then continue the strip.

With the exception of Deadpool comics, there are few comics who break the 4h wall as often as OotS.

[JonahFalcon]

Considering they were breaking the fourth wall on the first day, and do it constantly when they talk about spending points of feats, or monsters getting T-shirts saying they killed a PC and all they got was that lousy t-shirt.

Basically, these are PCs being roleplayed by unseen players.

[Oregano]

There are no players.

I agree with you Beholder, 602 seemed less like breaking the fourth wall and more like hitting it with a nuke, but it was still funny, just below par really but give Rich a break, it's been going a pretty long time, his jokes aren't always going to be the hilariousness we associate with OOTS.

[save da chicken]

Is there any group dedicated to cleaning up the fourth wall yet? It might pay well/good/a lot.

[Lord Seth]

Er...this happens all the time.


I mean, the characters are fully aware that they're in a comic (they hold poses for the Trade Paper Back, and discuss how certain scenes are going to be "splash pages."

If I remember correctly, there's a part in OtOoPCs, where Elan and an Innkeeper are talking, and the innkeeper asks if they want a room with a 4th wall. They discuss how popular 4th walls are, then they turn, wink, and give a thumbs up to the readers, then continue the strip.

With the exception of Deadpool comics, there are few comics who break the 4h wall as often as OotS.Well, Bob and George makes OOTS look like it has a fourth wall...

[save da chicken]

Well without the 4th wall, everyone would get frostbite, or at least a cold. And I would be out of a job =[

[David Argall]

«I think I just failed a spot check» doesnt break the fourth wall at all. That just the rules of the world were they live and they are aware of it just like we are aware of the physic of our world. Everytime the characters talk about D&D rules its not because there is no fourth wall but because they live in a world that freaking operate with D&D rules so of course they know about it.

Well, technically 602 is not breaking the fourth wall either. The 4th wall is the one between actors and audience, and that remains intact here. What we have in both cases is meta-gaming. The characters are making use of knowledge they are not supposed to have. Belkar knew he failed a spot check, and so knew there was something to spot. The cleric knew the camera had moved off him, and so something was happening.

So no, this scene is nothing really new for the comic.

[Tass]

Actually he broke the third wall when he looked into the other panel :)

Just like Tsukiku broke the first when she blasted Haley through it. The only wall to not take dammage yet is the second...

[JonahFalcon]

I remember Roy blaming the railroad plot for being chained by Miko.

[Linkavitch]

The Fourth Wall is pretty much as gone as it's cousin, Berlin. Destroyed. Decimated. Obliterated.

[Assassin89]

In many webcomics, the fourth wall is bound to be broken at least once. Now if only someone was selling fourth walls or someone finds the fifth.
To quote Irregular WebComic number 222 (http://irregularwebcomic.net/222.html):
We're not shy about breaking the fourth wall here at Irregular Webcomic! Heck, we'd break the fifth if we could find it.

[cheesecake]

I personally disliked this.

Its funny when it doesn't directly effect the outcome/plot of the comic. I actually reread the last 3 panels, thinking to myself, that was really stupid.

[The Berkeleian]

This isn't the first time that the Order of the Stick has been aware of parallel scenes through fourth wall-breaking. Check out strip 478 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0478.html).

(On the other hand, Xykon worries here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0023.html) about cutaway panels, but seems to be unaware of the fact that he is in one. So I guess you could argue either way - for or against plot-motivated fourth wall-breaking.)

I think the use of the fourth wall joke two strips in a row is perhaps a little much, sure, but it's not a long stretch by any means. The Giant tends to use the fourth wall joke pretty tastefully, I think.

[Greep]

Eh, I didn't like it, but I'm not exactly phased when the comic is pretty much "win" every day.

[David Argall]

(On the other hand, Xykon worries here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0023.html) about cutaway panels, but seems to be unaware of the fact that he is in one.

Xykon is unconcerned, not unaware. As long as MitD was in the dark, it didn't matter, but since he can't predict when the next cutscene will happen, he is not going to allow the MitD to ever get out of the dark.

[Theodoriph]

I personally disliked this.

Its funny when it doesn't directly effect the outcome/plot of the comic. I actually reread the last 3 panels, thinking to myself, that was really stupid.


As already mentioned, it didn't directly affect the plot of the comic at all. Haley would have gone and got her bow regardless.

The only thing that it affected was the joke. Most people find what happened more amusing than something to the effect of:

"He's been gone a while."

"I'll go get my bow."


Which is what would have happened, had Rich not used the joke. I prefer Rich's way myself. I found it amusing and more creative than the standard way of doing things (re: He's been gone a while. I'll go get my bow.).


In short, regardless of whether the cleric noted the panel break, Haley and co. would have been prepped for the fight. The plot was pre-planned.

[Theodoriph]

Xykon is unconcerned, not unaware. As long as MitD was in the dark, it didn't matter, but since he can't predict when the next cutscene will happen, he is not going to allow the MitD to ever get out of the dark.


You'd think Xykon would get a script too :P Alas...the pains of being an NPC.

[Caleniel]

Just repeating other people's points really, but I think this one it worth repeating: The OotS characters live in a world that a) works by D&D rules and b) is contained in a comic strip. They are all aware of both these facts and refer to them often. It is simply the laws of the universe they live in. It never bothered me, and I found this one funny, but of course there will always be different opinions on that.

[evileeyore]

My basic point is, doesn't it seem like #602 might have been taking it a bit too far?

No, it was lol-tastic. I loved the NPC Cleric's reaction.

[Roderick_BR]

Much? More like not nearly enough. The characters do know they are both in a webcomic AND that their world is governed by RPG laws ("We'll earn enough XP to level up soon").
And yes, the cutaway was pretty much that "chill up the spine" that set them up, only that they actually saw the text as well.

So? :smalltongue: Haley could hear them approaching anyway. They didn't feel the need to be sneaky.

[Talya]

Breaking the fourth wall is the entire concept behind this comic. If you're complaining about it, you never got it to begin with.

[Tholok Razescar]

The Fourth Wall is pretty much as gone as it's cousin, Berlin. Destroyed. Decimated. Obliterated.

Poor, poor wall of China. So lonely.

[Weiser_Cain]

Just pretend she made a really good listen check.

[Varkarrus]

Soon, we're going to have durkon fall through a randomly opening up hole, only to have haley shoot an arrow at the "ceiling" and have durkon fall through

[The Hop Goblin]

As with most other threads, I really think people are making way too big a deal about such small things.

[King of Nowhere]

Recently the 4th wall has been broken too much times for my tastes, but it's just my tastes. I still love the comic and I generally like some wall breaking here and there