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Dragonus45
2008-10-21, 12:31 PM
What would the level adjustment for a Averial be if it didn't have its wings, or had lost its ability to fly?

kamikasei
2008-10-21, 12:36 PM
I'd be inclined to say none, assuming the stats I turned up on a quick googling are accurate. They're LA +1 as they are, and the Winged template is a +2 if I'm remembering correctly, so obviously the designers felt that flight was the only thing they had going for them.

"Although no more powerful or weak than most other elven subraces, the avariel's ability to fly is an extremely useful ability."

I would drop the thing about their taking penalties on the ground, though, and be wary as given the size of the stat adjustments (+/- 4) they may be open to abuse.

Dragonus45
2008-10-21, 12:41 PM
The stuff i have puts them at +3, so should i bump it to 2 then? It seems about right, and the player is a cleric but very new so i'm not to worried about them breaking the game with the +4 dex.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-10-21, 02:01 PM
Drop from +3 to +1 if you remove the wings. +4 stat adjustments or multiple +2 stat adjustments put you at +1, generally.

kamikasei
2008-10-21, 02:11 PM
The source I found must have been wrong, then; I did think they were higher than +1, all right. Then by the same reasoning - the Winged template is +2 - I would agree with Tsotha and bring them to +1.

Person_Man
2008-10-21, 02:15 PM
Averial (Races of Faerun, pg. 31) get:

+4 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Wis, -2 Con.
+4 Spot and Jump.
Flight.
4 bonus racial feats, all of which are flight related.
+3 LA.

My suggestion: Don't play an if you don't want to fly.

But assuming you're doing it for fluff reasons, if you lop off their wings and drop the racial bonus feats, I'd put it at +1 LA.

Alternatively, play a Raptorian (Races of the Wild), which are clearly meant to be flying elves, and have no LA.

Starbuck_II
2008-10-21, 02:35 PM
Averial (Races of Faerun, pg. 31) get:

+4 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Wis, -2 Con.
+4 Spot and Jump.
Flight.
4 bonus racial feats, all of which are flight related.
+3 LA.

My suggestion: Don't play an if you don't want to fly.

But assuming you're doing it for fluff reasons, if you lop off their wings and drop the racial bonus feats, I'd put it at +1 LA.

Alternatively, play a Raptorian (Races of the Wild), which are clearly meant to be flying elves, and have no LA.

I don't know. I'd say a flightless one would be:
+2 Int or +2 Wis, -2 Con.
+4 Spot and Jump.
+0 LA.

Personally, that seems balanced to be. Con penalty sucks.

Devils_Advocate
2008-10-21, 06:26 PM
Averial (Races of Faerun, pg. 31) get:

+4 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Wis, -2 Con.
+4 Spot and Jump.
Flight.
4 bonus racial feats, all of which are flight related.
+3 LA.
... plus the standard elven traits.

If I had to decide how many levels I'd be willing to give up for the mechanical benefits other than flight, I'm pretty sure my answer would be "One" for most builds. I can't think of a build where giving up two levels would be worth it.

That indicates that the LA should be +1.

Mind you, the cleric class should probably have a level adjustment of its own, especially at higher leves, but that's a separate consideration. :smalltongue:


Alternatively, play a Raptorian (Races of the Wild), which are clearly meant to be flying elves, and have no LA.
They're not flying elves, they're weird bird people.

Dragonus45
2008-10-22, 07:28 AM
Thanks everyone i got it worked out know.