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View Full Version : Well i fell... Can I redo my goody two shoes choices?



Zephyros
2008-10-23, 02:34 PM
Well i posted this accidentally at the OotS subforum and I repost it here cuz I really want some answer (it's gotten in my head :smallbiggrin:)

I am making an NPC that will level up along with the players and eventually become a villain. I am actually going for rogue1/paladin10 and then turn all that paladin levels to blackguard (a nice suggestion by Person Man). What the DMG fails to mention is whether or not, when u exchange your levels, you can rebuild your character (skills, feats) for the 10 paladin levels.

As long as I am the DM I can actually pull this off without the players knowing, but is it ok by RAW?

(either that or i ll go swordsage1/crusader6/crusader of death from our homebrew - courtesy of the kind fellow that made that prc )

Thx

hamishspence
2008-10-23, 02:37 PM
I think if you want to retake feats, there is the Retraining rules in Players Handbook 2, otherwise, no changes to feats/skills when you swap levels.

RagnaroksChosen
2008-10-23, 02:43 PM
just class levels not feats although that does allow retraining of skills i believe.

hamishspence
2008-10-23, 02:48 PM
It does? I thought skills, like feats, were stuck, and it was only things specific to the class that were removed?

How do we explain losing Knowledge-nobility and Sense Motive, and replacing them with Hide and Intimidate, for example?

kamikasei
2008-10-23, 02:49 PM
Firstly note that you have to have 11 or more paladin levels before you can start trading them in.

I would allow retraining of skills, and maybe some feats depending on their nature. Something like Power Attack or the like, no, but if it's a feat that could be considered to represent a blessing from your deity I might allow it to be exchanged for something evil-themed, in the same way that you can trade levels.

Kish
2008-10-23, 02:50 PM
Well i posted this accidentally at the OotS subforum and I repost it here cuz I really want some answer (it's gotten in my head :smallbiggrin:)

I am making an NPC that will level up along with the players and eventually become a villain. I am actually going for rogue1/paladin10 and then turn all that paladin levels to blackguard (a nice suggestion by Person Man). What the DMG fails to mention is whether or not, when u exchange your levels, you can rebuild your character (skills, feats) for the 10 paladin levels.

As long as I am the DM I can actually pull this off without the players knowing, but is it ok by RAW?

In a word, no. Not by the three core 3.5ed books, anyway. There's nothing about reselecting feats and skills there.

Gaiwecoor
2008-10-23, 08:43 PM
Well, this isn't directly pointed at the question of feat/skill retraining, but ...

If you want to make a fun blackguard, throw some Shadowbane Inquisitor in there, too. You should be able to do Rogue 1 / Paladin 5 / Shadowbane Inquisitor X before you switch to blackguard. Why? Shadowbane Inquisitor levels stack with Paladin levels when you determine blackguard abilities and you don't loose their class abilities when you fall.

What's this mean? If you go Rog 1 / Pal 5 / SI 9-10, then fall to blackguard, you could trade in all of your paladin levels, still gain the benefits of a 9-10 level fallen paladin on top of the class features of the Shadowbane Inquisitor. Final build would be something like Rog 1 / SI 9-10 / BG 10-9. It's a decent way to get double class abilities as a blackguard.

More on point, many of the SI abilities are based on Turn Undead uses. I don't know how you feel about it, but I'd rule that Blackguard rebukes could fuel the turning abilities of the Shadowbane Inquisitor ... meaning those Extra Turning feats aren't totally wasted.