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Everyman
2008-10-23, 09:54 PM
A couple questions...

1) I know there is a bard variant that inspires dread and despair, focusing on imparing enemies rather than inspiring their allies. Could someone let me know the name and general abilities? If you have a link, that would be appreciative too.

2) Has anyone ever tried using said variant? How did it work out for you? I'm considering making a troupe of control freaks for my group to contend with, and someone who diminishes the abilities of another would be a great fit. However, it would seem that such a bard would have a great big target on him, once the party figured out what he was doing.

Thank you for your help.
-Tarkahn

Mewtarthio
2008-10-23, 10:11 PM
Crystal Keep has the Harbringer, credited to Dragon #337. It's exactly what you want. Essentially, it flips all the Bard's inspirational stuff to an opposite demoralizing effect (eg "Inspire Courage" becomes "Instill Fear" and applies a penalty to your enemies isntead of a bonus to your allies, and "Song of Freedom" becomes "Dirge of Binding" and paralyzes your foes). There's a couple of extra things in there, too, but you can check it out yourself.

Dhavaer
2008-10-23, 10:11 PM
The variant is called the Harbinger, and it's from Dragon. I don't recall the issue number.

Flickerdart
2008-10-23, 10:14 PM
There's also the Dirgesinger PrC in Libris Mortis that could serve your goals.

Raum
2008-10-23, 10:19 PM
2) Has anyone ever tried using said variant? How did it work out for you? I'm considering making a troupe of control freaks for my group to contend with, and someone who diminishes the abilities of another would be a great fit. However, it would seem that such a bard would have a great big target on him, once the party figured out what he was doing.I tried playing a bard whose abilities were reversed (negative version of the standard bard, didn't have access to the Dragon version) once - it didn't work out well. His abilities were all debuffs which didn't leave much (other than a few spells) for non-combat options. Worse, too many enemies end up being immune to mind affecting powers. That left him as a very limited caster. In other words, a liability. :smallmad:

Needless to say he didn't last too long.

Stupendous_Man
2008-10-23, 10:22 PM
Be careful. It is often more useful to buff up your allies than debuff your enemies.

ocato
2008-10-23, 10:29 PM
It's often hard to get a DM to approve dragon magazine stuff, unfortunately. Luckily, dirgesinger is a very nice and flavorful PrC that I suggest whole-heartedly if your goal is to really muck up your enemies. The only real problem with it is that it doesn't progress casting, which can cause some minor problems. To counter this, I suggest a moderately high base level in Bard, (L9 means you can hit +3 with a vest of legends and you get inspire greatness). By grabbing 3rd level spells, you ensure that you will be able to do all of the neat things that bards are wanted for such as buffing spells (like haste), utility (some healing, some enchantments/charms/save or sucks, and spells like improvisation for situational successes, etc), and of course, good solid bard buffing. While I understand that your goal is to debuff instead of buff, there's absolutely no good reason not to do both. Haunting Melody (EbSC) gives you a fear song, Doomspeak (champions of ruin) gives you a solid groin kick ability, and Dirgesinger/Requiem means you'll be able to solidly hurt your enemies. Daunting Presence (LM) also gives you a fear power, meaning you can all-out terrify some enemies. You might want lingering song to make sure your debuffs are lasting and stacking. You can also use your bardic UMD to grab a wand or two of Summon Undead. Nothing messes an enemy up quite like a few Bardically Buffed Allips.

Raum
2008-10-23, 11:06 PM
Be careful. It is often more useful to buff up your allies than debuff your enemies.Agreed. One of several reasons why the 'anti-bard' didn't play well.

Aquillion
2008-10-24, 12:42 AM
Isn't this basically a Beguiler? Just fluff it as being a Beguiler who carries a lute or something.

Frosty
2008-10-24, 12:48 AM
I also remember something from Exemplars of Evil having ACFs for a bard.

namo
2008-10-24, 05:22 PM
Dragon Magic has Inspire Awe and Exemplars of Evil Inspire Hatred: the two of them together make for a debuff-happy Bard (then add some of the stuff Ocato mentioned...).

Everyman
2008-10-25, 10:28 AM
Thank you all for your replies.

Since this is for a NPC, I'm too concerned about its overall power. I wouldn't be using this guy against the PCs anyway. Rather, I would be using feats like Subsonics and Requiem (one of the PCs is undead) to hinder them in crowded environments or to manipulate them into doing her bidding.

After reviewing the harbinger, I've decided that it doesn't quite do what I need. I'd really only need maybe one of those debuffs, so I think I'll drop it. The dirgesinger, though...I remember that one. That might be precisely what I need.

Thanks again.
-Tarkahn

nargbop
2008-10-25, 10:37 AM
I built a fear-based illusion master who used a one-level Dirgesinger dip and Silent Spell (so that he could sing and cast simultaneously) to quickly drive enemies insane with fear. A super-fun final boss to fight in a horror campaign.

Problem is, he's very vulnerable to anyone who makes the Will save. You need to have an army of helpers, or the Resilient Sphere spell, or some Plot protection to keep others from killing him.