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View Full Version : [1ed-3.5] What if you wished for the Tarasque "to have the mental capacity to........



newbDM
2008-10-24, 12:32 AM
While I was reading the D&D Tarasque's Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarrasque_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)) I noticed the following lines in particular:


Tarrasques have low intelligence and cannot speak. They are neutrally aligned, despite their violent and savage nature (they lack the mental capacity to choose between good or evil).


So I got to thinking, what if you wished for the tarasque to have the mental capacity to distinguish/choose between good and evil, instead of adding to the 1001 clever ways of keeping it unconscious?



p.s. Anyone have the Tarasque images from the original 1ed book, and possibly the 2ed stuff as well?

Asbestos
2008-10-24, 12:48 AM
So I got to thinking, what if you wished for the tarasque to have the mental capacity to distinguish/choose between good and evil, instead of adding to the 1001 clever ways of keeping it unconscious?


Hm, well I suppose it depends on how noble the Tarrasque is. It does have to eat to live, though since its an omnivore I can see it making a conscious choice to just eat plants (the non-sentient ones, darn D&D) if it desired to.
I'd feel a little sorry for the awakened Tarrasque, though. I mean, its the only one of its kind and always will be. Depressing!

LibraryOgre
2008-10-24, 12:58 AM
You know, it's not too hard to envision an "Awaken Magical Beast" spell...

Keld Denar
2008-10-24, 02:02 AM
I'd feel a little sorry for the awakened Tarrasque, though. I mean, its the only one of its kind and always will be. Depressing!

Yea, wouldn't want the big T to get all mopey about his situation, start listening to Fall Out Boy, wear black eye liner, and write poetry. At least you wouldn't have to worry about the tarrasque cutting himself, unless he had some pretty epic razor blades.

BobVosh
2008-10-24, 02:04 AM
so same intelligence, but aware of good/evil? That would be a bizarre wish.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-10-24, 02:07 AM
If I ever use the Tarrasque in a game I'm running, I'll make it a Half-Fiend with Divine Rank 0. Switch its feats for one Improved Toughness and other feats like Improved Flight and Quicken Spell-Like Ability, and give it a few more class skills since it will be getting Outsider skill points, like Hide and Move Silently. That will solve its mobility/flight problems, plus it can use a caster level 48 Blasphemy 1/day. It would probably get to determine the encounter distance instead of the PCs engaging it at their convenience, and it may even get a surprise round on them. It would definitely be evil aligned, as selfish and destructive as it is.

Keld Denar
2008-10-24, 02:41 AM
Tschern over on the CharOp forums restated the Big T. He gave him feats like Mageslayer and Pierce Magical Conceilment to get past the most common avoidance methods. Then he gave it like, Open Lesser Chakra and Shaped Soulmeld with something to give it flight. Also, the epic feat Dire Charge to add pounce to its potential 150' rushing charge. Oh, and I think stuff like Snatch and maybe Swallow Whole. It was pretty sick.

bosssmiley
2008-10-24, 04:24 AM
So I got to thinking, what if you wished for the tarasque to have the mental capacity to distinguish/choose between good and evil, instead of adding to the 1001 clever ways of keeping it unconscious?

...And that's how you get Galactus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactus) in D&D.

"I do not devour your kind because I choose to do so; I devour your kind because it is in my nature."

Talic
2008-10-24, 04:29 AM
Even worse. You want a tarrasque with a good/evil awareness?

A Tarrasque that feels rejection, and guilt?

A SOLITARY, ALONE, UNIQUE among all the creatures of the world Tarrasque that knows loneliness?

What does one do when they feel rejected, guilty, or lonely?

They eat.:smalleek:

DigoDragon
2008-10-24, 07:32 AM
...And that's how you get Galactus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactus) in D&D.

Hmmm... imagine a campaign where the Terrasque did have this kind of intelligence and so it designates a herald to go forth and find tastey villages to eat and warn people of it's eventual arrival.

This could be interesting.

chiasaur11
2008-10-24, 12:43 PM
...And that's how you get Galactus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactus) in D&D.

"I do not devour your kind because I choose to do so; I devour your kind because it is in my nature."

Which is why the wizard who awakens him should have one of those infinite food thingys on hand.

Flickerdart
2008-10-24, 01:14 PM
Can't the newly-awakened Tarrasque willingly suppress its Spell Resistance, allowing you to Polymorph it into something more acceptable? I don't see immunity to Polymorph on its list. That is, if it's Good. If Evil, we'll need a really big Helm of Opposite Alignment.

Fax Celestis
2008-10-24, 01:18 PM
You know, it's not too hard to envision an "Awaken Magical Beast" spell...

Forget that. Just use existing wish mechanics:


Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. Two to five wish spells cast in immediate succession can grant a creature a +2 to +5 inherent bonus to an ability score (two wishes for a +2 inherent bonus, three for a +3 inherent bonus, and so on). Inherent bonuses are instantaneous, so they cannot be dispelled. Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies.

Ding, intelligence.

Waspinator
2008-10-24, 02:53 PM
My favorite rebuild of the "Big T" that I've seen is the one where it was given a bunch of Martial Studys (or whatever the Tome of Battle feat is called...) so it was able to teleport around like crazy.

Talic
2008-10-24, 06:56 PM
Forget that. Just use existing wish mechanics:



Ding, intelligence.

Wait. Does wish even work on Big T?

Oh yeah, kill condition. Right. Probably the most unusual wish I've seen made on the tarrasque.

FMArthur
2008-10-24, 07:46 PM
I wonder if there are other ways of escaping the Tarrasque's wrath via buffing. Is there a way you can make him grow large enough that he can't really see you, for instance?

Asbestos
2008-10-24, 07:50 PM
I wonder if there are other ways of escaping the Tarrasque's wrath via buffing. Is there a way you can make him grow large enough that he can't really see you, for instance?

Better yet... can we shrink him small enough to put him into say... a bag of holding and just forget about him?

EvilElitest
2008-10-24, 07:55 PM
Better yet... can we shrink him small enough to put him into say... a bag of holding and just forget about him?

and some adventures will find it in a dungeon

"hey guys, look a bag"
"Dude, what is in it?"
"Well lets see, credit cards, house key, ticket to an oprea and.......guys"
from
EE

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-24, 08:03 PM
Better yet... can we shrink him small enough to put him into say... a bag of holding and just forget about him?

Even better yet... Shove the Bag of Holding into a handy Haversack and let the resulting spacial paradox erase its existence.

Jack_Simth
2008-10-24, 08:16 PM
Better yet... can we shrink him small enough to put him into say... a bag of holding and just forget about him?

Get swallowed, stick a portable hole into the bag of holding, Plane Shift (Stilled) home. Mr. T is no longer a problem for your local plane of existence, no save. Can be done at level 11 by a Cleric with the right items.

newbDM
2008-10-24, 10:18 PM
Even worse. You want a tarrasque with a good/evil awareness?

A Tarrasque that feels rejection, and guilt?

A SOLITARY, ALONE, UNIQUE among all the creatures of the world Tarrasque that knows loneliness?

What does one do when they feel rejected, guilty, or lonely?

They eat.:smalleek:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/celestialkin/roflmao.gif



Hmmm... imagine a campaign where the Terrasque did have this kind of intelligence and so it designates a herald to go forth and find tastey villages to eat and warn people of it's eventual arrival.

This could be interesting.

Dude, that is a really cool idea. Since I read it I have debated actually using it.

However, why would the herald warm the tarasque's future meals? If they run, no food. I doubt the buildings would ber very tasty.


Can't the newly-awakened Tarrasque willingly suppress its Spell Resistance, allowing you to Polymorph it into something more acceptable? I don't see immunity to Polymorph on its list. That is, if it's Good. If Evil, we'll need a really big Helm of Opposite Alignment.

But remember, magic items automatically resize.




and some adventures will find it in a dungeon

"hey guys, look a bag"
"Dude, what is in it?"
"Well lets see, credit cards, house key, ticket to an oprea and.......guys"
from
EE

I soooooo want to do that now...

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-24, 10:22 PM
Heck, Baleful Polymorph it into a toad. No offensive abilities worth mentioning, but it keeps HP. Hardest thing to step on, ever.

newbDM
2008-10-24, 10:25 PM
Heck, Baleful Polymorph it into a toad. No offensive abilities worth mentioning, but it keeps HP. Hardest thing to step on, ever.

Thanks. I needed a good laugh. :smallbiggrin:

Frosty
2008-10-24, 10:30 PM
Thanks. I needed a good laugh. :smallbiggrin:

Baleful Polymorph allows a Fort save right? Do you know what Big T's Fort save is?

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-24, 10:36 PM
We're talking CR 20 here. It's perfectly reasonable at that point to have a way to spam 20 5th level spells before it can kill you. Heck, at any level you're still making a profit, even if you just go with scrolls of that and Fly.

Asbestos
2008-10-24, 10:38 PM
Get swallowed, stick a portable hole into the bag of holding, Plane Shift (Stilled) home. Mr. T is no longer a problem for your local plane of existence, no save. Can be done at level 11 by a Cleric with the right items.

This is awesome.
Everyone:"OMG! Its the Tarrasque!!!! What do we do?!?!"
Properly Equipped Cleric: "We... let him EAT ME!"

edit: Wait, are you talking about getting swallowed by Big T or the BoH?
edit 2: The cleric quote is better when made all anime-like. "We... let him EAAAAAAAAT MEEEEEEE!!!!!"

Innis Cabal
2008-10-24, 10:41 PM
I'd feel a little sorry for the awakened Tarrasque, though. I mean, its the only one of its kind and always will be. Depressing!

Simply untrue. There is a whole planet of them in Spelljammer

Asbestos
2008-10-24, 10:52 PM
Simply untrue. There is a whole planet of them in Spelljammer

Yeah, but Spelljammer also had an entire race of Hippo-men and Giant Space Hamsters. Spelljammer is simply too ridiculous to count.

Eldaran
2008-10-24, 11:02 PM
Fear the horrendous art work!

http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p432/Sindae/Tarrasque1E.png

http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p432/Sindae/Tarrasque2ECompendium.png

http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p432/Sindae/Tarrasque2EManual.png

Flickerdart
2008-10-24, 11:05 PM
I like how the 1e tarrasque can sever someone's torso.

newbDM
2008-10-24, 11:13 PM
Simply untrue. There is a whole planet of them in Spelljammer

Wut? :smalleek:

I am going to need to look for that when I get my first set in the mail in a few days.

Is it like the dumping group for other spheres' tarasques? Sort of like a dump/pound?


However, I so want to put that in my sphere...

......am I a bad DM?

Plus, it might let me use ALL those options I liked above. Hence why there is a sentient one on my homeworld with a herald, why this group (or eventually another(s) as well) will find a pint-sized one in a bag of holding somewhere, and why there might be one somewhere wearing a monocle, a tophat, and a British accent drinking tea.




Baleful Polymorph allows a Fort save right? Do you know what Big T's Fort save is?

Nope. But knowing my luck with dice, I wouldn't put it out of the question.

Ascension
2008-10-24, 11:15 PM
Everyone should know that the only way to defeat the Tarasque (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarasque) is to have a high-level cleric use diplomacy on it, then bring it near a town so that the commoners will kill the now-docile creature. The cleric will then make them feel so bad about it they change the name of their village to honor the noble creature.

FMArthur
2008-10-24, 11:18 PM
Better yet... can we shrink him small enough to put him into say... a bag of holding and just forget about him?

I find it more interesting to beat something by making it more powerful. If you found a way to get it, say, two size categories larger, I don't think it could see you properly. Also, if you were able to fix him like that permanently, he'd starve to death because he can't find enough food to supply such a massive body's metabolism. Well, he'd starve to the point of being weak, since he can't die.

Asbestos
2008-10-24, 11:24 PM
I find it more interesting to beat something by making it more powerful. If you found a way to get it, say, two size categories larger, I don't think it could see you properly. Also, if you were able to fix him like that permanently, he'd starve to death because he can't find enough food to supply such a massive body's metabolism. Well, he'd starve to the point of being weak, since he can't die.

Yeah, but I kind of like EE's (!!!!) suggestion of later adventurers finding a miniaturized Big T in a dungeon somewhere, as opposed to adventurers finding an unconscious, mountain sized Big T somewhere.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-24, 11:28 PM
Yeah, but I kind of like EE's (!!!!) suggestion of later adventurers finding a miniaturized Big T in a dungeon somewhere, as opposed to adventurers finding an unconscious, mountain sized Big T somewhere.Spelljammer sphere: Giant, plane-sized Tarrasque that people are living on. They have no agriculture but massive tech due to the abundance of free food.

Irreverent Fool
2008-10-24, 11:28 PM
I find it more interesting to beat something by making it more powerful. If you found a way to get it, say, two size categories larger, I don't think it could see you properly. Also, if you were able to fix him like that permanently, he'd starve to death because he can't find enough food to supply such a massive body's metabolism. Well, he'd starve to the point of being weak, since he can't die.

Doesn't starving inflict nonlethal damage?

Eldaran
2008-10-24, 11:29 PM
Wut? :smalleek:

I am going to need to look for that when I get my first set in the mail in a few days.

Is it like the dumping group for other spheres' tarasques? Sort of like a dump/pound?


However, I so want to put that in my sphere...

......am I a bad DM?

Plus, it might let me use ALL those options I liked above. Hence why there is a sentient one on my homeworld with a herald, why this group (or eventually another(s) as well) will find a pint-sized one in a bag of holding somewhere, and why there might be one somewhere wearing a monocle, a tophat, and a British accent drinking tea.





Nope. But knowing my luck with dice, I wouldn't put it out of the question.

It's mainly a planet of illithids that live underground, but the surface has the tarrasques. This is the relevant entry:


http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p432/Sindae/TarrasqueSpelljammer.png

newbDM
2008-10-24, 11:30 PM
Yeah, but I kind of like EE's (!!!!) suggestion of later adventurers finding a miniaturized Big T in a dungeon somewhere, as opposed to adventurers finding an unconscious, mountain sized Big T somewhere.

What kind of CR adjustment would you give a tarasque reduced to small sized using the 3.5 MM1 rules for changing sizes?

What CR adjustment would you give tiny sized one? :smallbiggrin:

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-10-24, 11:32 PM
I'm horrified just by the memory of THAC0 that those pages bring. I still can't remember how that backwards system worked.

newbDM
2008-10-24, 11:35 PM
It's mainly a planet of illithids that live underground, but the surface has the tarrasques. This is the relevant entry:


http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p432/Sindae/TarrasqueSpelljammer.png

Thank you for the information!

You have just helped me come up with the name and information for one of my planets in my sphere.

Do you happen to know which book this was from, and perhaps which sphere?

Eldaran
2008-10-24, 11:40 PM
Thank you for the information!

You have just helped me come up with the name and information for one of my planets in my sphere.

Do you happen to know which book this was from, and perhaps which sphere?

Yeah, it's from Practical Planetology, the whole book is full of random planets that can be added to any sphere. It's actually a pretty useful supplement.

Randel
2008-10-25, 01:17 AM
What if the Tarasque realizes that he's the last of his kind and tries joining human society?


Elf: You humans would do anything you know.
Human: What do you mean?
Elf: You know, half-elves, half orcs.
Dwarf: Half dragons, half kobolds.
Human: Yeah, it happens rather often.
Elf: Tieflings, half-golems.
Dwarf: ...centaurs, mermaids.
Human: Well some of those are just some kind of human-like monsters or modified humans or something. Not technically half-breeds.
Elf: Yeah, well the fact remains. You stupid humans are so easy. Why do think that is... human?
Human: I dunno, why don't you ask my cousin George?

*suddenly the roof of the tavern is peeled back as George the half-tarasque looks down on the group*

George: Hi cuz! I just got back after digging up the tomb of horrors and squashing a nest of mindflayers. Who are your friends?

Dwarf and Elf just look up... eyes wide as saucers.

Human: I hear he's going to be a player race in 5th edition.

Fiery Diamond
2008-10-25, 02:03 AM
What if the Tarasque realizes that he's the last of his kind and tries joining human society?


Elf: You humans would do anything you know.
Human: What do you mean?
Elf: You know, half-elves, half orcs.
Dwarf: Half dragons, half kobolds.
Human: Yeah, it happens rather often.
Elf: Tieflings, half-golems.
Dwarf: ...centaurs, mermaids.
Human: Well some of those are just some kind of human-like monsters or modified humans or something. Not technically half-breeds.
Elf: Yeah, well the fact remains. You stupid humans are so easy. Why do think that is... human?
Human: I dunno, why don't you ask my cousin George?

*suddenly the roof of the tavern is peeled back as George the half-tarasque looks down on the group*

George: Hi cuz! I just got back after digging up the tomb of horrors and squashing a nest of mindflayers. Who are your friends?

Dwarf and Elf just look up... eyes wide as saucers.

Human: I hear he's going to be a player race in 5th edition.

SO. FULL. OF. WIN.

bosssmiley
2008-10-25, 04:25 AM
Everyone should know that the only way to defeat the Tarasque (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarasque) is to have a high-level cleric use diplomacy on it, then bring it near a town so that the commoners will kill the now-docile creature. The cleric will then make them feel so bad about it they change the name of their village to honor the noble creature.

Oh, you mean Tarascon. I thought you were talking about Tarasqalta (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=261519) for a second.

LibraryOgre
2008-10-25, 10:19 AM
I'm horrified just by the memory of THAC0 that those pages bring. I still can't remember how that backwards system worked.

ThAC0 - AC = Number needed to be rolled.

20 - 10 = 10

19 - -6 = 25 (hit only on a 20)

6 - 10 = -4 (miss only on a one)

If you don't know the AC, you subtract your roll from your ThAC0, and it gives you the best AC you would have hit.

20 - 18 = 2

6 - 16 = -10

17 - 20 = -3

It's that complex, 5th grade, math that throws people.

And a 16th level Warlock might be able to pull it off, incidentally. Fly speed and all-day Baleful Polymorphs

Devils_Advocate
2008-10-25, 10:49 PM
Fear the horrendous art work!
Could you please put that middle image in a spoiler box?


It's that complex, 5th grade, math that throws people.
It's counterintuitive. At least to some people. In order to interpret your statements, I have to stare into space contemplating e.g. how low AC is good, so if 2 is the "best AC" you could hit, that means, um...

I immediately and without conscious choice interpret your statements the "natural way", and so I have to spend a lot of time correcting myself, saying to myself "No, it doesn't really mean that, it means the opposite, because it's backwards." But if the "natural" interpretation is the correct one, I don't have to tell myself anything, I'm already done.

If it doesn't feel to you like one way is "natural", then you don't have your intuition working with you or against you either way, so of course THAC0 and BAB both look about equally easy to work with.

olelia
2008-10-25, 11:10 PM
Spoiler the huge image plzkthx >.<

Edit: Death my ninja :smalleek:

Chronos
2008-10-25, 11:32 PM
Quoth FMArthur:
I find it more interesting to beat something by making it more powerful.My favorite method for dealing with the Tarrasque is still Heroes' Feast (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/heroesFeast.htm). The spell states that it creates enough food for one creature per level, but doesn't say anything about what size of creature. So when you meet Big T, you just cast the spell for him once a day for a few days until his bedtime, and keep him well-fed and happy on something other than villages.

LibraryOgre
2008-10-25, 11:51 PM
It's counterintuitive. At least to some people. In order to interpret your statements, I have to stare into space contemplating e.g. how low AC is good, so if 2 is the "best AC" you could hit, that means, um...


I never stated that they weren't counter-intuitive. However, it likewise isn't difficult.

Eldaran
2008-10-26, 12:17 AM
Spoiler the huge image plzkthx >.<

Edit: Death my ninja :smalleek:

Ok, I did. But if they're huge to you, I suggest you increase the resolution on your monitor. :smalltongue:

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-26, 12:21 AM
Ok, I did. But if they're huge to you, I suggest you increase the resolution on your monitor. :smalltongue:Well, this site prefers spoilering images, because some of the people have poor connections. Beyond that, a lot of people are forced to use 800x600 res(work, public computers), and even for me, at 1280x1024, a 1200 wide image, with a sidebar and everything else on screen, broke the bounds.