[3.5] Magical Bloodletting

[monty]

The Wounding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#wounding) weapon property "deals 1 point of Constitution damage from blood loss when it hits a creature." Nowhere in the description does it require that it do damage, as opposed to, for example, Sneak Attack (which specifies "extra" damage) or disease ("When a character is injured..."). So the question is, how does this work? Does the mere touch of the dagger pull blood out through the skin (think Blood Magus)? Is it a magical contact poison? Or something far more sinister...

[Saph]

Weapon hits do a minimum of 1 point of damage, don't they? So any 'hit' will deal damage, unless the monster has some special protection.

- Saph

[Keld Denar]

Weapon hits do a minimum of 1 point of damage, don't they? So any 'hit' will deal damage, unless the monster has some special protection.

- Saph

Hmmm, I wonder, if you hit a foe with DR of 10/Good with a +1 Wounding Longsword and only deal 9 points of damage, do they still take the CON damage? I know poisons fail to apply if damage doesn't penetrate DR, but what would wounding qualify as?

[Fax Celestis]

Weapon hits do a minimum of 1 point of damage, don't they? So any 'hit' will deal damage, unless the monster has some special protection.

- Saph

Before DR, yes. But if you hit someone with DR 5/- and only deal 3 points of damage, it comes out 0.

[KevLar]

So, does Wounding work in that case?

By RAW I'd say yes ("when it hits a creature" pretty much covers it) but RAI is obviously something else, because how can you cause blood loss if you don't do any damage? I'm confused...

[Starbuck_II]

So, does Wounding work in that case?

By RAW I'd say yes ("when it hits a creature" pretty much covers it) but RAI is obviously something else, because how can you cause blood loss if you don't do any damage? I'm confused...

SRD says:
Whenever damage reduction completely negates the damage from an attack, it also negates most special effects that accompany the attack, such as injury type poison, a monk’s stunning, and injury type disease. Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack, or energy drains. Nor does it affect poisons or diseases delivered by inhalation, ingestion, or contact.

What does Monk's stunning say? Damage
Injury Poison also says damage.

So yes, by the rules Wounding works regardless of DR (maybe even irregardless of DR)

[monty]

I stand by my "it's magic, so it works" argument.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Wounding deals Con damage. I'd rule it as 'misleading name'. The weapon hits and magic rips into their body, weakening their very soul's grasp on life. Wounding is just to make it sound less evil.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Wounding deals Con damage. I'd rule it as 'misleading name'. The weapon hits and magic rips into their body, weakening their very soul's grasp on life. Wounding is just to make it sound less evil.
It specifically says blood loss. So it magically rips into their body and dissolves blood, but not so much soul.

Slightly less evil sounding, I guess. :smalltongue:

[Curmudgeon]

You created this thread because you didn't like my answer in the "Simple Q&A" thread. I'll try to make my point here.
I stand by my "it's magic, so it works" argument.

Wounding

A wounding weapon deals 1 point of Constitution damage from magical blood loss when it hits a creature. Notice how it doesn't say "magical blood loss"?

I stand by my "it's got to deal real damage, so it doesn't work" argument.

[monty]

You created this thread because you didn't like my answer in the "Simple Q&A" thread. I'll try to make my point here.
Notice how it doesn't say "magical blood loss"?

I stand by my "it's got to deal real damage, so it doesn't work" argument.

Except it doesn't say it has to do real damage, and it's a magical weapon enchantment.

[Demented]

You don't require an open wound to bleed. It just requires an excess of blood thinners. =P

[Sstoopidtallkid]

You created this thread because you didn't like my answer in the "Simple Q&A" thread. I'll try to make my point here.
Notice how it doesn't say "magical blood loss"?

I stand by my "it's got to deal real damage, so it doesn't work" argument.Speaking as someone who is slightly anemic and currently bleeding without an open wound, I have to say I stand by the fact that the fluff and crunch seem to disagree, and no open wound is required. Maybe the blood is sucked out of the body, or the blade burns up the blood just by touching you.

[Curmudgeon]

Except it doesn't say it has to do real damage, and it's a magical weapon enchantment. It's not an enchantment at all; it's an evocation. Or maybe you were thinking of enhancement, which is something completely different.

Wounding is a magical enhancement which is triggered by a hit, not a touch.
A wounding weapon deals 1 point of Constitution damage from blood loss when it hits a creature.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Wounding is a magical enhancement which is triggered by a hit, not a touch.But it is still considered a hit even if damage doesn't penetrate DR, it's just a hit that does nothing. Many things specifically state that they don't activate without at least one point of damage, this ability does not. Lets pull another example. The Flaming enhancement, from the SRD:
Flaming

Upon command, a flaming weapon is sheathed in fire. The fire does not harm the wielder. The effect remains until another command is given. A flaming weapon deals an extra 1d6 points of fire damage on a successful hit. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the fire energy upon their ammunition. Now, if someone has a Flaming Dagger, no Str mod, and they hit a Dretch, which has DR5, would you honestly say the weapon doesn't burn it?

[The Glyphstone]

But it is still considered a hit even if damage doesn't penetrate DR, it's just a hit that does nothing. Many things specifically state that they don't activate without at least one point of damage, this ability does not. Lets pull another example. The Flaming enhancement, from the SRD:Now, if someone has a Flaming Dagger, no Str mod, and they hit a Dretch, which has DR5, would you honestly say the weapon doesn't burn it?

The irony is that Dretches have Resistance to Fire 10....:smallconfused:

Substitute, say, a Rakshasha instead and you're golden though.

[monty]

It's not an enchantment at all; it's an evocation. Or maybe you were thinking of enhancement, which is something completely different.

Don't try to trip me up with semantics. You know perfectly well what I meant.


Wounding is a magical enhancement which is triggered by a hit, not a touch.

It doesn't have to do damage to hit.


If your result equals or beats the target’s Armor Class, you hit and deal damage.

In this case, the damage happens to be 0. That doesn't make it not a hit.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

You created this thread because you didn't like my answer in the "Simple Q&A" thread. I'll try to make my point here.
Notice how it doesn't say "magical blood loss"?
And yet, the only way for my dagger to cause this "blood loss" is to have a magical property?

Magic factors into it one way or the other, and the rules are relatively silent on exactly how that happens. Given that "blood loss" only occurse when you use an extraordinary, spell-like, supernatural, or other special ability, I think it's safe to say we should dispense with any biases towards what's necessary for actual blood loss in the real world.



It doesn't have to do damage to hit.


If your result equals or beats the target’s Armor Class, you hit and deal damage.

In this case, the damage happens to be 0. That doesn't make it not a hit.
Exactly, you hit, and then you deal damage, but sometimes that damage is reduced thanks to DR or energy resistance. The wording in the SRD fairly consistently treats "hits" and "dealing damage" as two separate things.
Exactly


Now, if someone has a Flaming Dagger, no Str mod, and they hit a Dretch, which has DR5, would you honestly say the weapon doesn't burn it?
The aforementioned Dretch fire resistance notwithstanding, this is one of the primary situations the energy weapon enhancement are meant to overcome.