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Lyndworm
2008-10-27, 07:20 PM
Mostly out of curiosity, could anyone here help me figure out the LA for a marilith?

Here are the relevant stats:

Size/Type: Large Outsider (Chaotic, Demon, Extraplanar, Evil)
Hit Dice: 16d8+144
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.

Str +18 Dex +8 Con +18
Int +8 Wis +8 Cha +14

+16 natural armor
Tail slap +22 melee (4d6+4)
6 Slams +24 melee (1d8+9)
DR10/Good and Cold Iron
Darkvision 60ft.
Immunity to Electricity and Poison
Resistance to Acid 10, Cold 10, and Fire 10
SR25
Telepathy 100 ft.

Constrict (Ex): A marilith deals 4d6+13 points of damage with a successful grapple check. The constricted creature must succeed on a DC 27 Fortitude save or lose consciousness for as long as it remains in the coils and for 2d4 rounds thereafter. The save DC is Strength-based.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a marilith must hit with its tail slap attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it succeeds on the grapple check, it can constrict.

Spell-Like Abilities: At will—align weapon, blade barrier (DC 23), magic weapon, project image (DC 23), polymorph, see invisibility, telekinesis (DC 22), greater teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only), unholy aura (DC 25). Caster level 16th. The save DCs are Charisma-based.

Summon Demon (Sp): Once per day a marilith can attempt to summon 4d10 dretches, 1d4 hezrou, or one nalfeshnee with a 50% chance of success, or one glabrezu or another marilith with a 20% chance of success. This ability is the equivalent of a 5th-level spell.

True Seeing (Su): Mariliths continuously use this ability, as the spell (caster level 16th).

Skills: Mariliths have a +8 racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks.


As you can see, it's quite powerful. I was thinking that it would be about LA +15. Am I correct?

If I am correct, then how could I change it in such a way as to perhaps show a Lesser Marilith or young Marilith, no higher than LA +5?

Thanks for all the help.

Zack

Moff Chumley
2008-10-27, 07:31 PM
<sings>Homebrew!</sings>

Flickerdart
2008-10-27, 07:37 PM
You can sweeten the deal by converting some LA to RHD, though it's still going to hit hard. I'd recommend taking off Constrict and Improved Grapple if you don't know the grappling rules by heart. Summon Demon is going to fail half the time or worse, so there's not much point to use that either. Might want to crop some of those At-wills, too (Greater Teleport and Polymorph at will are going to make the DM cry). You might as well toss See Invisibility as At-Will, too: they get True Seeing.

mikethepoor
2008-10-27, 07:47 PM
Mostly out of curiosity, could anyone here help me figure out the LA for a marilith?

As you can see, it's quite powerful. I was thinking that it would be about LA +15. Am I correct?

If I am correct, then how could I change it in such a way as to perhaps show a Lesser Marilith or young Marilith, no higher than LA +5?

Thanks for all the help.

Zack

I wouldn't say quite that high. Many of these abilities can be duplicated by high-level PCs, whether through class features, items, spells, or other sources. Combine that with the fact that for all its SLAs, a marilith still relies primarily on a couple of buffs and charging into melee.

If I had to estimate, I'd say an LA of +8 would be appropriate, based on the ability scores (+2), SLAs (+2), grapple ability (+2), and resistances (+2). This is just the way I'd call it, but regardless, a marilith PC at +8 LA would be an epic-level character; by 24th level, people generally value 24 class levels in anything over 16 racial Hit Dice and a +8 LA.

Prometheus
2008-10-27, 08:17 PM
<sings>Homebrew!</sings>Yeah, Marilith is a real monster, so it seems perfectly reasonable to be here. Modding it to fit, okay maybe, but I think it's fine.

Iku Rex
2008-10-27, 08:38 PM
Quick estimate: +12 .

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-27, 08:40 PM
First up, remove the HD. You want it usable pre-epic.

Lyndworm
2008-10-27, 08:54 PM
OK... I'm gonna try my hand at a lesser Marilith here, and then start another thread in Homebrew for more critique.

Size/Type: Large Outsider (Chaotic, Demon, Extraplanar, Evil)
Hit Dice: 3d8
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.

Str +8 Dex +4 Con +8
Int +0 Wis +0 Cha +6

+4 Natural Armor
Tail Slap (2d4)
6 Slams (1d6)
DR5/Good and Cold Iron
Darkvision 60ft.
Resistance to Electricity 15, Poison 15, Acid 5, Cold 5, and Fire 5
SR10
Telepathy 100 ft.

True Seeing (Su): Lesser Mariliths continuously use this ability, as the spell (caster level 16th).

Skills: Lesser Mariliths have a +8 racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks.

My guess is LA +4. Any thoughts?

Zack

Rei_Jin
2008-10-27, 08:58 PM
Remove the True Sight ability, and drop the size of it from large to medium.

Lyndworm
2008-10-27, 09:37 PM
I'll remove True Seeing, but I feel that being Large is important. To Homebrew!

Zack

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-10-27, 10:06 PM
Half-Marilith (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630a)

Lyndworm
2008-10-27, 10:26 PM
Interesting, but really not what I'm looking for. Thanks anyway.

Zack

bosssmiley
2008-10-28, 06:18 AM
I'd say an LA of at least +8 for the template given.

Ignore the LA rules, they're useless. They make you pay full price for the bread (racial HD) and extra for the sandwich filling (stat boosts, SLAs). :smallannoyed:

Use the "Races of War" monster class rules instead:

Base creature CR
+ 1-2 CR (for having PC stats & gear)
+ 1-3 CR for creatures with the invisible [awesome] template (for Dragons, Beholders, overclocked to cheesiness Outsiders like the Ghaele Eladrin and Angels, etc.)
Play as a character of that level.

I think this'll put your Marilith at about 18th-20th level as a character. Some might balk, but what the Marilith can do is not beyond the bounds of reason given what's possible with boggo full casters, or with splatbook PC races, class-dipping and feat cheese combat builds.