Sorta-Inspired by the "Maybe starting 40k" thread...

[Ascension]

Though I most likely don't have the budget for it, I've been curious off-and-on about what it actually takes to get into 40k. I've seen the price of the minis and I've seen the size of the armies duking it out, but I've never really managed to form any direct correlation between the two in my mind... what I'm asking is, what does a basic army cost, total, rule books and paint included? What's the entry fee, so to speak, for 40k?

I realize the price would probably fluctuate a good deal based on faction and focus, so let's just stick with the two factions I'm actually interested in: the Tau and the Sisters of Battle.* Assume that I'd be aiming for just a basic, flexible, balanced army, nothing too fancy or niche.

* The Orks are a bit too heavy on self-parody for me, the Eldar just aren't interesting, Chaos is too "Rowr! Argh! See how evil we are!", the Necrons and Tyranids lack personality, the Guard is too redshirty, and the Space Marines are too overused. That pretty much just leaves the killer nuns and the almost-good-guys.

[onasuma]

First off, you need to look at chaos more closely if thats the opinion you get.

Next up, it depends where you want to start to be frank. The starter set is £40 and contains 500 points of orks and marines + dice and rules. A box of 500 points of an army (battleforce) is £50 and the codex's are 8-18

[Ascension]

First off, you need to look at chaos more closely if thats the opinion you get.

I probably do, but I still couldn't see myself playing them.


Next up, it depends where you want to start to be frank. The starter set is £40 and contains 500 points of orks and marines + dice and rules. A box of 500 points of an army (battleforce) is £50 and the codex's are 8-18

And that's why I pointed out where I'd want to start. A balanced Tau or Sisters of Battle army, with all necessary rules and whatnot to accompany it.

[Swordguy]

Good rule of thumb is $100 US for every 500 points. It varies, but that's served me well across 3 editions of the rules.

Good Luck with SoBs, by the way. I really enjoy that army.

[Kane]

I don't believe the Tau bf has a heavy support option. Which means that aside from EMP grenades, I think you'll be forced to let any AV 12+ run all over you.

I don't know about kroot.

And I'm not sure whether the devilfish sprue would come with all the options, like, say, warfish build.

Personally, I'm quite happy with my 1000 point army I got $200 USD; I don't think you can get them from GW anymore, but 1 Tau Megaforce, 175, and 1 Tau battlesuit commander, 25. (Purchased at a 10% off hobby shop, no less.:smallsmile:)

Throw in codex ($24) and a hobby kit ($45-ish), and a rule book ($50), it's around $350 USD, guestimating tax.

On the other hand, my method was to split the hobby kit and the rulebook with three other friends. Which cut down significantly on the total cost.

[RPGuru1331]

Just enough for the codexes. Use proxies for your units. Well, if your local game shop's into that. That's what I did, anyway.

Problem mostly is, I can't imagine folks who actually spent the 400+ bucks would be amused. Then again, you'd thinkt he same with Magic, and most folks seem to be fine with it.

[Talkkno]

What about Dark Eldar or Demon Hunters?

[Ascension]

I thought Dark Eldar were part of Chaos and I wasn't aware of the Demon Hunters. The Imperium is even heavier on the sub-factions than I thought...

I never claimed to be well versed in the lore of 40k. Just curious about the game.

Though I like the Tau fluff a bit better, I think I would prefer the Sisters' fighting style... If I were to get into 40k, it'd probably be with them.

I note that the Sisters (or any other part of the Inquisition, for that matter) don't have a 4th edition Codex yet. Are they still playable?

[Cristo Meyers]

You can mitigate the cost a bit by going to trading sites like Bartertown.com and picking up used minis.

While the cost for individual models in 40K is high (sometimes obscenely so), the larger boxed sets are usually a pretty good deal.

[Bryn]

I note that the Sisters (or any other part of the Inquisition, for that matter) don't have a 4th edition Codex yet. Are they still playable?
They are. Codices from 3rd edition are compatible with 4th and 5th, though often they aren't as effective as they used to be when the rules change around them (in addition to the general power creep that comes with the new codices). I don't think Sisters are too badly affected, unlike, supposedly, the Dark Eldar.

Dark Eldar are not Chaos, though, if anything, they're even more "lol, evul" (for which I will be badly harmed by Dark Eldar players). Like the other Eldar, their souls are under threat from the Chaos God Slaanesh when they die, but unlike the Craftworld Eldar, who store their souls in Soul Stones and their craftworlds (ie, world ships), the Dark Eldar seek to appease Slaanesh with huge amounts of torture, excess and violence so that s/he won't eat their souls.

Tactically, they're extremely different to both Chaos Space Marines and Traitor Imperial Guard, neither of whom they would probably work alongside.

Just for fun...
Imperial Factions (and model ranges)
Imperial Guard
- Cadians
- Catachans
- Elysians [FW]
- Valhallans
- Vostroyans
- Krieg [FW]
- Armageddon
- Tallarn
- Mordians
- Tanith (limited)
- Countless varieties of tank
Space Marines
- Ultramarines
- Black Templars
- Space Wolves
- Blood Angels
- Dark Angels
- Red Scorpions [FW]
- Numerous shoulder pads
Inquisition
- Sisters of Battle
- Grey Knights
- Stormtroopers, Assassins, etc.
Imperial Navy [FW]
Titan Legions [FW]
Clearly, the Guard needs more models :smallamused:

[hamishspence]

In Shadow Point, the Sequel to Execution Hour, by Gorden Rennie, both set in Battlefleet Gothic era, they do indeed work longside chaos.

Abaddon sends them two diplomats- lieutenants who have irritated him- a kill-crazy Khornate, and a Chaos Sorcerer. They signal their acceptance of the alliance by returning him the Khornate's head in a box.

[YPU]

Clearly, the Guard needs more models :smallamused:

The guard always need more of everything.

[RPGuru1331]

You can mitigate the cost a bit by going to trading sites like Bartertown.com and picking up used minis.

While the cost for individual models in 40K is high (sometimes obscenely so), the larger boxed sets are usually a pretty good deal.

Or just use Proxies

Really, people? Nobody is going to suggest that somebody who wants to try it out take the cheap option, rather then get heavily invested before being damn sure it's worth it?

[hamishspence]

a limited edition Guard series, looked exactly like British soldiers from Zulu I'm not sure what the name was- its been a while.

[Bryn]

Hmm, seems like I forgot the Praetorian Guard! Sadly, GW doesn't sell them any more.

[Swordguy]

Or just use Proxies

Really, people? Nobody is going to suggest that somebody who wants to try it out take the cheap option, rather then get heavily invested before being damn sure it's worth it?

That's actually harder with GW games than with others - the WYSIWYG gameplay that GW has pushed for so hard really bites new players in the ass, as, in my experience (9 years of 40k, 4 years of WFB, 5 years of Mordheim, and a smattering of BFG), veteran players simply will refuse to play you if you proxy more than a very little (like proxying wargear). At the very least, they complain at you a lot.

The hobby simply isn't friendly to those who do much proxying, which is why, I think, everyone is loathe to recommend it.

[AgentPaper]

I'd say get the codex, play with your friends using proxies (or anyone that will let you, really) and if you like the game, slowly start to replace your proxies with actual miniatures. The game works fine with just bits of paper representing the troops, (printed images are a plus to keep track of what is what) but having a fully assembled and painted force just makes the whole thing far more exciting.

[Wraith]

a limited edition Guard series, looked exactly like British soldiers from Zulu I'm not sure what the name was- its been a while.

I remember the Praetorians (http://colgravis.blogspot.com/2007/10/praetorian-4th-foot-1500pts-uk-gt-heat.html) from when they first came out - very strange little boxed set that, as it was one of the very few at the time which included models of "dead" and "wounded" soldiers :smallsmile:

Anyways, with regards to the topic, Ascension - All races are currently playable no matter which one you choose, it's simply that some are better represented than others.
The Daemonhunters and Witchhunters armies (both similar but slightly different factions that fall somewhere between the Imperial Guard and Space Marines in terms of how they work) have gone some 3-4 years without an updated Codex, and the Dark Eldar for even longer. To put that in perspective, since then we've had both versions 3.5 AND 4.0 of Warhammer 40,000 released in the mean time.

So having said that, I would recommend that of the two choices you should start with Tau - not because they are 'better' but because they are better supported and their models are up to date, rather than older (which in turn means mostly metal and therefore very expensive).

[EDIT] Some very good points made while I was typing this up - Proxies are always a good start. :smallwink:

[Bryn]

The hobby simply isn't friendly to those who do much proxying, which is why, I think, everyone is loathe to recommend it.
It probably depends on where you play, and the mix of players present. I regularly play with a Tyranid player who used to field empty bases instead of Biovores, and the people at the monthly gaming club (most of whom are extremely young) rarely have a completed (painted) army. I'd certainly be tolerant of proxying myself, especially for new players who're still deciding whether to pick up the hobby.

I'd reccomend not-proxying simply because modelling and converting is a lot of fun, and between GW and Forge World, you can get some absolutely fantastic models to have fun with. You might also care more about models you've converted yourself - I do.

[Exachix]

My gaming group is quite a proxy-friendly place.

I was playing once and my entire (eldar) army consitited of Chaos Infantry proxying as my units.
Khorne Berzerkers (sp) were really Dire Avengers.

We use paper for Soulgrinders and when people don't have defilers.

That said, If possible, I wouldn't do that =).

[BooNL]

Remember there are other, less legal, ways of procuring army books. From this you can extrapolate the exact point cost of the models you like, after which you can buy said models. Heck, you can even do that at the hobby shop.

Anyway, GW games are a great hobby, even though I mostly play Mordheim and Warhammer Quest this rule goes for all games: buy the models you like.

I can't stress this enough, especially if you're going to spend hours painting those little bastards, make sure you like em well enough.
I don't have much experience with 40k (though I have an IG army planned), I do know they recently changed edition. You can expect a bucketload of new stuff coming out in the next couple of months. Generally GW releases one army every 5/6 months.

If you're going to buy stuff, either consider buying a battle box or going with the minimum core of 2 troops and 1 hq. That way you can easily pick up some games.

[Oslecamo]

Like said, use proxies. I've just played a little of WH40K, and it has been with proxies and/or burrowed units.

If you're willing to take the time for it, you can get plenty of second hand miniatures and considerably reduce the price, but it isn't always an option.

Imperial Guard doesn't need to be Redshirt. Comissars in particular are a very subotpimal choice in the tabletop. It's one of the most fluff customizable army. Here are some examples:

1-Catachan:Rambo army, with guardsmen lightly armored and swinging giant sharp knives around while being stealthy.

2-Shock troopers, aka marines: use doctrines to get elite troops instead of baci infantry, get a small range focused army, bakced up by some tanks.

3-Armored company:everything goes in wheels. Fast and furious.

4-Adeptus mechanicus servants: guardmesn filled with bionic implants, cold logical lethal army.

[RPGuru1331]

I'd say get the codex, play with your friends using proxies (or anyone that will let you, really) and if you like the game, slowly start to replace your proxies with actual miniatures. The game works fine with just bits of paper representing the troops, (printed images are a plus to keep track of what is what) but having a fully assembled and painted force just makes the whole thing far more exciting.

Right, this is what I was getting at. I get what Swordguy is saying though; I *know* official gamers will say No, Just No, which is fine. I guess you may want to check. I tried it out with a friend's spare 'Nid army, and decided I liked it but had not the time to do the whole 9 yards (Painting!). But without someone you know deeply enough into the hobby to have *Spare Armies on hand*.. that's hard.

You could try heading to the local place and asking.