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Project_Mayhem
2008-10-28, 09:36 AM
To cut a slightly longer story short, my group have expressed a taste for a good old Zombie sesh. We were trying to choose a system, and I remembered this one. Is it worth buying? Are there better ones? Would CoC work?

Kurald Galain
2008-10-28, 09:41 AM
Would CoC work?

That depends on whether you want an atmosphere of lots of mook zombies that are moved down by the heroic players, or an unstoppable horde of flesh that the PCs must avoid or die trying.

Fax Celestis
2008-10-28, 10:05 AM
I find zombie campaigns work just fine with nWoD core (mortals) only, though now that Hunter's out (something I have yet to look at), that could be effective too.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-10-28, 10:18 AM
CoC could work, sure, but All Flesh Must Be Eaten is the absolute best. (It especially shines in Walking Dead -style prolonged survival horror, but is great for any kind of zombie junk you can imagine. Kung fu zombies and Shaolin Monks? Check. Space zombies and space marines? Check. Deadlands? Check.)

Incidentally, it also makes a better D&D than D&D does, if you're less interested in "playing D&D" and more interested in, say, "playing Ravenloft."

I'm currently converting Ravenloft into AFMBE, and it's a ton of fun already.


That depends on whether you want an atmosphere of lots of mook zombies that are moved down by the heroic players, or an unstoppable horde of flesh that the PCs must avoid or die trying.

How so? You can have either in AFMBE. The default combat is incredibly lethal, and if the zombies are Strong Like a Bull and have Teeth, it's pretty much one bite -kill. Fortunately, you can easily tweak this any which way.

Asbestos
2008-10-28, 10:24 AM
That depends on whether you want an atmosphere of lots of mook zombies that are moved down by the heroic players, or an unstoppable horde of flesh that the PCs must avoid or die trying.

CoC has mook zombies?!?
:smalltongue:

Is it the 1st or 2nd edition of AFMBE?
Anyway, if you're looking for a zombie game, this is THE zombie game. But you're apparently looking for a system... hmmm... I think the Unisystem lends itself pretty well to the cinematic type games, which I think a zombie game might certainly be. I'm sure someone is going to suggest M&M.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-10-28, 10:29 AM
Oh, it can be very cinematic, if you're so inclined. But if you're playing a bunch of Norms with the lethal (default, really) combat system, it's very gritty.

A bunch of Survivors with less lethal combat and more Hard to Kill can get up into Resident Evil movie level stuff.

Project_Mayhem
2008-10-28, 10:54 AM
Ah thanks. The problem of wheher to buy it or not was rendered moot by my friend's ... legally challenged method of obtaining it. We may well give it a try

Asbestos
2008-10-28, 11:03 AM
Oh, it can be very cinematic, if you're so inclined. But if you're playing a bunch of Norms with the lethal (default, really) combat system, it's very gritty.

A bunch of Survivors with less lethal combat and more Hard to Kill can get up into Resident Evil movie level stuff.

I think I'd classify Night of the Living Dead movie as being a bunch of Norms with a lethal combat system.
Hmm... what other zombie movies are probably more about Norms than Survivors? Are any all 'Norms'?

Tsotha-lanti
2008-10-28, 01:40 PM
I think I'd classify Night of the Living Dead movie as being a bunch of Norms with a lethal combat system.
Hmm... what other zombie movies are probably more about Norms than Survivors? Are any all 'Norms'?

Most zombie movies and novels would be all-Norm games.

Night, Dawn, and Day of the (Living) Dead. (All versions, pretty much.) 28 Days Later. Shaun of the Dead. (No reason you can't play funny zombie games.) Zombi II & III.

Survivor/Talented -style games would be in the style of the Resident Evil Films, and most zombie video games would probably be more in this vein.

"Cinematic" generally refers to a game using movie tropes like non-lethal gunfights and the like, improbable stunts, etc.

Oslecamo
2008-10-28, 02:30 PM
Most zombie movies and novels would be all-Norm games.

Night, Dawn, and Day of the (Living) Dead. (All versions, pretty much.) 28 Days Later. Shaun of the Dead. (No reason you can't play funny zombie games.) Zombi II & III.

Survivor/Talented -style games would be in the style of the Resident Evil Films, and most zombie video games would probably be more in this vein.

"Cinematic" generally refers to a game using movie tropes like non-lethal gunfights and the like, improbable stunts, etc.


Bah. In Soviet Russia D&D zombies shoot fireballs at you!

chiasaur11
2008-10-28, 02:44 PM
So, would Ash in the later Evil Dead films be a survivor, what with the chainsaw hand and badassery and whatnot?

Tsotha-lanti
2008-10-28, 02:49 PM
I don't really see why anyone would class the Evil Dead series as zombie films (a film that includes one or more zombies is not automatically a zombie film; you could just as well claim they're rape tree films), but yeah, they'd definitely be Survivor-level stuff with fast-and-loose combat rules.

Satyr
2008-10-28, 03:31 PM
All Flesh Must Be Eaten is a great game and in almost any cases worth to purchase. I think it is one of the better games around. It is almost as flexible as Gurps, but stronger focused on hunting and killing undeads... or being hunted and killed by undeads, depending on the campaign's focus.

The system is extremely easy to learn and flexible at the same time, and there is a wide number of excellent source books. Not that you need any book apart from the core book, but Dungeons and Zombies (for example) is a fully capable D&D replacement, only without the weaknesses.

I would say, that the Unisystem games are ruleways much better than the topical similiar World of Darkness equivalents, and

If you only want one game for most settings, than All Flesh Must Be Eaten is a great choice. If you want a game with a focus on horror, than AFMBE is a great choice. If you want a game where settings like Ravenloft or Dark Sunn actually working with, All Flesh Must Be Eaten (and Dungeons and Zombies) is a great choice. If you want to play something like "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Flying Wuxia Undead", AFMBE is a great choice. If you want to play something like ´"Pirates of the Caribbean", All Flesh Must be Eaten is a great choice (even though the Pirate source book waits for its release since three years or so), if you want to have a game about more traditional zombies (like in White Zombie or to a lesser extend in Das Kabinett des Dr. Caligari) or a game based on a mystery series like Supernatural, AFMBE is still your friend.

And, one of the great things about flexible and adaptable gamesis, you can combine and adapt this at will, for even more necrocalyptic crave for the flesh of the living. Think about De Bello Gallico, when both Gauls and Caesar's legions employs necromancers and warlocks hile the senate is infuriated about such barbarious customs as dark magic... while the player characters are the Elite of the Evocatii with secret Martial Arts Powers.

You could even leave out the zombies, even though that is something like heresy.


In Soviet Russia D&D zombies shoot fireballs at you!

And in AFMBE you have a tool set for monsters which lead you create a wide arrange of very different undeads or monsters in general. Inncluding aquatic, flying fireball tossing zombie dragons which explodes wh nthey die, covering a square heactar with impure pus which turns everyone who touch it in an undead mockery of themselves.


I don't really see why anyone would class the Evil Dead series as zombie films

But you could still run an Evil Dead game on the base of All Flesh Must Be Eaten (the fact that the official Army of Darkness RPG is based on a slightly simlplified version of the same game somewhat supports this).

Oslecamo
2008-10-28, 04:06 PM
And in AFMBE you have a tool set for monsters which lead you create a wide arrange of very different undeads or monsters in general. Inncluding aquatic, flying fireball tossing zombie dragons which explodes wh nthey die, covering a square heactar with impure pus which turns everyone who touch it in an undead mockery of themselves.


Yeah. We also can easily do that with D&D. I mean, the player characters can do it, not just the DM. For starters.

And then D&D has stuff such as zombie cold breathing T-rexs rided by ninja pirate zombies who dual wield repeating crossbows wich jump out from the player's favorite piece of equipment and then swallow the player, forcing him/her to get out while hacing the zombie's stomach, only to later discover he has been infected by a disease who makes him/her and everybody nearby bursts into pieces releasing several lethal zombies upon the unsuspecting party, contaminating the once safe city.

Satyr
2008-10-28, 04:39 PM
The thing is, you can do all this stuff in FMBE as well, but you are not forced to do it. D&D is completely ficxated on one way of how to play the game - the characters are lager than life heroes that are quite likely outmatch many traditional heroes of myths and legends, given enough time and XP.

But it is quite difficult to play it in any other way than this (or in a game where the players do not want to play the rarely changing, railroaded developed set of flat stereotypic clichés).
D&D is like a coala - extremely specialised for its particular niche. All Flesh Must Be Eaten (or Gurps or similar 'toolbox systems') are more like rats or cockroaches that can easily adapt to a wide number of differnt environments and situations. I am quite sure that AFMBE is a very common species of flies that lies its eggs into dead meat, for example.

Project_Mayhem
2008-10-28, 04:44 PM
you could just as well claim they're rape tree films

I normally do

Asbestos
2008-10-28, 06:04 PM
Most zombie movies and novels would be all-Norm games.

Night, Dawn, and Day of the (Living) Dead. (All versions, pretty much.) 28 Days Later. Shaun of the Dead. (No reason you can't play funny zombie games.) Zombi II & III.

Survivor/Talented -style games would be in the style of the Resident Evil Films, and most zombie video games would probably be more in this vein.
.

I think that Jim's character in 28 Days Later crosses over into being a Survivor when dealing with the cliched evil soldiers.

2xSlick
2008-10-28, 11:16 PM
Most zombie movies and novels would be all-Norm games.

Night, Dawn, and Day of the (Living) Dead. (All versions, pretty much.) 28 Days Later. Shaun of the Dead. (No reason you can't play funny zombie games.) Zombi II & III.

Survivor/Talented -style games would be in the style of the Resident Evil Films, and most zombie video games would probably be more in this vein.

"Cinematic" generally refers to a game using movie tropes like non-lethal gunfights and the like, improbable stunts, etc.

You've seen Zombi 3? Welcome, brother! Try the snickerdoodles.

I'd be more inclined to put Peter from Dawn of the Dead as a Survivor as his power level was well above everyone else in the whole hexalogy. The only time he ever missed a shot was when he was blindfiring a closet. Plus there was that time he power cleaned a zombie and scored a rail kill.

Doomsy
2008-10-28, 11:31 PM
I think that Jim's character in 28 Days Later crosses over into being a Survivor when dealing with the cliched evil soldiers.

I think he went from Norm to HULK in that instance. Never steal an Irishmans shirt. They just go freaking unstoppable rage.