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Holocron Coder
2008-10-29, 12:28 AM
Rather elementary question... but where is this Unarmed Swordsage variant?

Additionally, what is suggested for ability priority? Is Weapon Finesse a good path, or is a better idea to stick to Strength to hit?

Those are the only questions I have at the moment... :smallbiggrin:

Frosty
2008-10-29, 12:29 AM
It's at the end of the Swordsage section, right before the Warblade section. You *could* go Weapon Finesse, or you could even go Intuitive Strike to use WIS instead of STR. It all depends on what you want your priorities to be. Just remember that you have a max DEX bonus with armor, but no max WIS bonus.

Holocron Coder
2008-10-29, 12:35 AM
Ah, I see... it's almost an aside comment... lose armor proficiency though? that sucks :smallfrown:

Frosty
2008-10-29, 12:37 AM
You can still take a Feat to get it back, or multiclass into Warblade for one level or something.

Holocron Coder
2008-10-29, 12:45 AM
Aye, but required to play a warforged. Not sure how the lack of proficiency applies to their natural armor.

Speaking of, where are all the warforged feats / body mods hiding? Never can seem to find the right book...

Nerd-o-rama
2008-10-29, 12:58 AM
Races of Eberron. Which does have Unarmored Body, but if you're going to waste a feat, just take Armor Prof. Light.

Holocron Coder
2008-10-29, 01:05 AM
Races of Eberron. Which does have Unarmored Body, but if you're going to waste a feat, just take Armor Prof. Light.

Looking at it... The basic armor doesn't count as armor. So taking Light Armor Prof would allow me to take Mithral Body, which is decent setup...

Behold_the_Void
2008-10-29, 01:40 AM
Or you can just wear a Mithral Chainshirt for no nonproficiency penalty.

The_Snark
2008-10-29, 01:59 AM
Looking at it... The basic armor doesn't count as armor. So taking Light Armor Prof would allow me to take Mithral Body, which is decent setup...

You don't need proficiency for the warforged armor feats; they impose a penalty to any skills that an armor check penalty normally would apply to, but they do not actually have an armor check penalty. You could have Adamantine Body and, aside from losing class features that only function in light or lighter armor, you wouldn't take penalties.

The Rose Dragon
2008-10-29, 04:24 AM
Or you can just wear a Mithral Chainshirt for no nonproficiency penalty.

Warforged can't wear armor.

Irreverent Fool
2008-10-29, 05:49 AM
Warforged can't wear armor.

Absolutely right. "This composite plating occupies the same space on the body as a suit of armor...thus a warforged cannot wear armor..."

It does not say anywhere in the warforged listing that composite plating is considered light armor or that the warforged is considered to be wearing any kind of armor at all. (as mentioned above apparently)

Edit: I left the bit about robes out on purpose, since it was about armor, but yeah. Though I have never pictured a Warforged in a robe.

OP: Since you're not spending that feat on an armor prof., I highly suggest taking Adaptive Style from the Tome of Battle, since it allows you to change all of your prepared maneuvers with a single full-round action. Effectively it means you can re-ready all of your maneuvers rather than using the extremely lame method swordsages normally have available.

The Rose Dragon
2008-10-29, 05:51 AM
Absolutely right. "This composite plating occupies the same space on the body as a suit of armor...thus a warforged cannot wear armor..."

Or robes, for that matter. However, they can wear vests, which can be specifically worn underneath armor and robes by normal people, but over it with warforged.

Hunter Noventa
2008-10-29, 06:05 AM
Also, if you take Weapon Finesse and Shadow Blade as feats, you apply your dex bonus to attack AND damage rolls, but the latter only while in a Shadow Hand Stance, with a Shadow Blade weapon.

Sinfire Titan
2008-10-29, 09:04 AM
Note that Unarmed Swordsage loses nothing for wearing light armor, and nothing for having Composite Plating. They never put a penalty on wearing armor in the USS variant, as they never stated it out entirely.

But multiclassing into Warblade or Crusader is a good idea. Crusader/Swordsage works well for some reason.

Tokiko Mima
2008-10-29, 09:39 AM
Well, keep in mind that the Unarmed variant Swordsage technically has a WIS bonus to AC only in light armor, not when unarmored or via Warforged armor bonus alone. You need to have your DM work out the details so this makes sense when a swordsage doesn't have a proficiency needed to use a class feature anymore.

kamikasei
2008-10-29, 09:42 AM
Well, keep in mind that the Unarmed variant Swordsage technically has a WIS bonus to AC only in light armor, not when unarmored or via Warforged armor bonus alone. You need to have your DM work out the details so this makes sense when a swordsage doesn't have a proficiency needed to use a class feature anymore.

Technically - but presumably that, along with the "x6 at first level" bit, will be getting some DM-spackle applied.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-10-29, 10:07 AM
Loosing light armor proficency hurts you not at all. As mentioned, it doesn't really hurt you to not be proficent. I find your choice of Warforged a strange one, all things considered. Warforged work much better as Warblades and Crusaders than Swordsages.

Generally, I use Str as a dump stat, relying on dex and maneuvers to grant me extra damage, but then, I tend to go heavy on Shadow Hand, Setting Sun, and Tiger Claw with splashing in Diamond Mind and Stone Dragon. However, with a Warforged, it might be better to use Dex as something of a dump stat and go for Strength. Go with their strengths, eh?

Sinfire Titan
2008-10-29, 07:28 PM
Loosing light armor proficency hurts you not at all. As mentioned, it doesn't really hurt you to not be proficent. I find your choice of Warforged a strange one, all things considered. Warforged work much better as Warblades and Crusaders than Swordsages.

Generally, I use Str as a dump stat, relying on dex and maneuvers to grant me extra damage, but then, I tend to go heavy on Shadow Hand, Setting Sun, and Tiger Claw with splashing in Diamond Mind and Stone Dragon. However, with a Warforged, it might be better to use Dex as something of a dump stat and go for Strength. Go with their strengths, eh?

You are thinking 4E Warforged. Con is the only stat Warforged have a bonus to in 3.5.

golentan
2008-10-29, 08:10 PM
I don't know, they've put warforged in some pretty ridiculous outfits over the years. Here (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/roe_gallery/88257.jpg) are (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/eb_gallery/82094.jpg) some (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moe_gallery/91474.jpg) examples. (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/roe_gallery/88267.jpg)

Sinfire Titan
2008-10-30, 06:25 AM
I don't know, they've put warforged in some pretty ridiculous outfits over the years. Here (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/roe_gallery/88257.jpg) are (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/eb_gallery/82094.jpg) some (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moe_gallery/91474.jpg) examples. (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/roe_gallery/88267.jpg)

Because Con bonuses are nice for every class, and the Cha penalty is easily ignored. The Wis penalty hurts a bit, but can be negated too. Warforged make a good race for a number of classes (Duskblade, Warblade, Crusader, Swordsage, Factotum, Wizard, Celric, etc).

Frosty
2008-10-30, 07:31 PM
Will a Strike of Righteous Vitality only affect the Warforged half as well?

vicente408
2008-10-30, 07:58 PM
I don't know, they've put warforged in some pretty ridiculous outfits over the years. Here (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/roe_gallery/88257.jpg) are (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/eb_gallery/82094.jpg) some (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moe_gallery/91474.jpg) examples. (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/roe_gallery/88267.jpg)

That last one is pretty cool, especially if the hound is a construct as well. :smallamused:

Draz74
2008-10-30, 08:14 PM
That last one is pretty cool, especially if the hound is a construct as well. :smallamused:

The first is hilariously ridiculous, though. Almost makes me want to go try a Warforged Swashbuckler right away.

kamikasei
2008-10-31, 03:28 AM
Will a Strike of Righteous Vitality only affect the Warforged half as well?

Only if it's from the healing subschool or a supernatural ability. I forget whether that's the case.

Serenity
2008-10-31, 12:28 PM
It's not identified as a supernatural ability, but it does say 'you gain the benefit of a Heal spell', so that probably affects them half as much. Since their other healing strikes are not emulating spells, those would have full effect on the Warforged, by RAW.