I am not a paladin.

[Edge of Dreams]

I had an interesting revelation recently, and I wished to share it in a place where people would understand the context and see what they think.

In World of Warcraft, Dungeons and Dragons Fourth Edition, and various other games, I love to play as a Paladin.

I am not a Paladin.

A Paladin is Charismatic. When he Speaks, everyone stops to Listen.
A Paladin is Wise. She knows when to hold her Tongue.
A Paladin is Just. He upholds Law and Morality.
A Paladin is Forgiving. She holds no Grudge, seeks no Revenge.
A Paladin is Righteous. He allows no Evil to go unchecked.
A Paladin is Pure. She allows no Wicked or Lustful thoughts within herself.
A Paladin is Armored. He is protected from the weapons of the world.
A Paladin is Brave. She stands alone against the Darkness and shows no fear.
A Paladin is a Warrior. He wields his Blade with Strength and Skill.
A Paladin is a Priest. She Comforts and Lifts up those in Need.
A Paladin is Mighty. He strikes down his Foes and withstands their Assaults.
A Paladin is Humble. She holds no Pride, nor refuses Help when needed.

A Paladin is everything I am not.

And that is why I play a Paladin.

[Poison_Fish]

Man, I wonder what that says about my love for shaman.

[Destichado]

A Paladin is everything I am not.

That's not a permanent condition, you know. Would you like to do anything about it? :smallwink:

[Grimfist]

Does that mean when paladins get the nerf hammer in a few weeks you'll grow more powerful? :smalltongue:

[potatocubed]

Personally, I'm always going to fail at the purity stage.

Wicked and lustful thoughts get me through the day. :smallwink:

[Felixaar]

Yeah... I think that hits me too.

A high five to Edge of Dreams for switching gender pronouns though.
(wow, i haven't high fived anyone in months! still got the moves!)

[SurlySeraph]

Would you like this free pamphlet on "What dedicating your life to destroying evil can do for you"?

[bosssmiley]

A Paladin is everything I am not.
And that is why I play a Paladin.

* A paladin is everything I wanted to be when I was a kid, and the White Knight archetype still just as cool now. :smallcool:

[Destro_Yersul]

That's not a permanent condition, you know. Would you like to do anything about it? :smallwink:

I have a stick handy. All we got to do is stick it where the sun don't shine...

I think I have a little paladin living in my head. He shouts at me when I do morally questionable things, and waves his little warhammer around.

[InaVegt]

Would you like this free pamphlet on "Serving the legions of darkness, a perfect job."?

[Destichado]

I have a stick handy. All we got to do is stick it where the sun don't shine...

I think I have a little paladin living in my head. He shouts at me when I do morally questionable things, and waves his little warhammer around.

We're Lawful Good, not Lawful A$$hole. :smallconfused:

Paladins struggle with the same faults and foibles as all the rest of mankind. Raymund Lull was a party animal before realising the folly of his ways, Pierre Terrail had to deal with the responsibility of being dutiful to earthly masters while maintaining personal virtue, Godfrey of Bouillon was eminently secular before coming to Jerusalem, and Simon de Montfort managed to marry a nun (essentially) and lead a civil war while still being renowned as a pillar of virtue.

What sets apart paladins is not their immunity from sin and weakness, but their choice to struggle with what so many embrace, and their relative success where so many fail.

The goal is impossible for mortals to attain, but being a Paladin means you're getting there.

[Destro_Yersul]

Well, the first bit with the stick was a Miko-related joke.

The Paladin in my head would object to actually doing that, see. And he's situated dangerously close to a bunch of important things. So I don't want to bring out his righteous anger. It's the same reason I can't take Ina up on her generous offer there, because that would cause a lot of shouting and something would probably get whacked with the hammer I mentioned.

Of course, if I get some righteous anger going about some perceived injustice or other, the Paladin lets me rage at it for a bit. I think he knows I don't have the power to actually do anything about it...

[someonenonotyou]

a padlain is everyone strives to be no one is there and probley will never be there you can get close but you cant

[Krrth]

Would you like this free pamphlet on "What dedicating your life to destroying evil can do for you"?
...Why yes, yes I would. Thank you for asking.

[Dallas-Dakota]

A Paladin is Charismatic. When he Speaks, everyone stops to Listen.
A Paladin is Wise. She knows when to hold her Tongue.
A Paladin is Just. He upholds Law and Morality.
A Paladin is Forgiving. She holds no Grudge, seeks no Revenge.
A Paladin is Righteous. He allows no Evil to go unchecked.
A Paladin is Pure. She allows no Wicked or Lustful thoughts within herself.
A Paladin is Armored. He is protected from the weapons of the world.
A Paladin is Brave. She stands alone against the Darkness and shows no fear.
A Paladin is a Warrior. He wields his Blade with Strength and Skill.
A Paladin is a Priest. She Comforts and Lifts up those in Need.
A Paladin is Mighty. He strikes down his Foes and withstands their Assaults.
A Paladin is Humble. She holds no Pride, nor refuses Help when needed.
I am so tempted to type : Miko above that list and then make a check list of it...

[Lupy]

Would you like this free pamphlet on "What dedicating your life to destroying evil can do for you"?

Why yes, yes I would.

@Krrth- *reads pamphlet and takes complementary mace* Hmm...

@Dallas- Think of the thread before you say the Miko word! ... Oops ...

[averagejoe]

Hmmm... I have a lot of paladin-esque qualities. Then again, I like playing barbarians and rogues.


@Destichado: agreed. Of course, I would attribute that relative success to that same dedication.

[Renegade Paladin]

A paladin is everything I'm not and everything I aspire to be. Which, when you realize just what truly living up to the ideals entails, is the best anyone can do; the only difference is how close you can come, for you will never get there.

Don't expect to ever embody the ideals; that is hubris, and is in itself an obstacle in the road. To strive every day to reach them is enough.

[reorith]

why strive for some lofty goal when you know at the end of the day you'll fall short? i save time and just antagonize my sanctimonious white knighting friends. it always seems to bring out the best in them.

[skywalker]

Does that mean when paladins get the nerf hammer in a few weeks you'll grow more powerful? :smalltongue:

Why/when are paladins getting hit with the nerf hammer?

[Jenkins]

why strive for some lofty goal when you know at the end of the day you'll fall short?

Because at the end of the day, you are still a 'better' person for having tried.

I'm the ranger. All day everyday. Except when I'm at work. Which is a lot. So I guess not so much all day. Or everyday. Now that I've completly destroyed that whole point...

[Renegade Paladin]

why strive for some lofty goal when you know at the end of the day you'll fall short?
Because it's the right thing to do. You better yourself by striving; even if you never reach the goal, you still draw closer. Think of it as y = 1/x :smalltongue:

[Lemur]

Back when I was playing WoW, my favorite classes were warlock and druid, and I tend to like playing spellcasters of questionable morality in other games as well. Now in real life, I can't really say I'm a shapshifting master of darkness, nor do I have the awesome voice (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17tFo3-DsPE) that comes with it.

Should I find this distressing?

[Ascension]

I'm most unlike a barbarian, but, though they are fairly fun for smashing things, I don't generally play barbarians. I like playing skill monkies (which I am somewhat like) and high-CHA characters (which I'm not like). The high charisma, maxed bluff thing is definitely a what-I-wish-I-could-be-but-I'm-not sort of thing.

[Drascin]

Would you like this free pamphlet on "What dedicating your life to destroying evil can do for you"?

Well, I've always had trouble with the whole Wisdom and Restraint and Lawfulness thing, but, much like Destro, I do have a little paladinesque figure in my mind, going "Stay good, man! Stay good!" and waving menacingly every time I even think of doing something morally questionable. Only mine has the voice of Vash from Trigun, which means that whenever I'm not trying to help someone I have an unexplainable urge for donuts :smalltongue:

So yes, I would be interested in the pamphlet.

[JaxGaret]

why strive for some lofty goal when you know at the end of the day you'll fall short?

We are human. We are not perfect. The only way we fall short is by giving up.

This goes for any philosophy, not just white knighting.


i save time and just antagonize my sanctimonious white knighting friends. it always seems to bring out the best in them.

There you go. You're a Paladin by proxy :smallsmile:

[Vizen]

I enjoyed playing a paladin in WoW. Prot spec for me. Now THAT was fun..So long as you were being hit.
In my D&D group I'm also playing the resident paladin, for a little bit of a break from swordsage. If I'm not playing a swordsage I'm usually playing a paladin.


* A paladin is everything I wanted to be when I was a kid, and the White Knight archetype still just as cool now. :smallcool:

When I was a kid, I wanted to be pure evil. But the paladin in my head somehow managed to do a little divine shield from it, before smacking that demon a couple of times with a smite. That demon is now locked in a cage and is only released into pre-assigned evil rooms. (As in, it comes out to play when I play Dungeon Keeper)
I can still do a pretty demonic sounding laugh though!

[Eldan]

Heh. I have never played a Paladin. While I, and my character usually admire them somewhat for their goodness, the lawful part just never stuck with me.
I still fondly remember that one time when I played NWN1 online and my character (CN rogue) spent an hour discussing the pros and cons of different forms of perfect societies and whether or not any law can be applied in every situation.

[hamishspence]

I find that form rather more pleasant than "All laws are wrong and no law is valid in any situation"

[Eldan]

Nah, that's just stupid, not chaotic.
Chaotic just means that you are open to a more liberal approach when applying laws. At least, it does for me.
Of course, lawful people don't follow every law either.

[Destro_Yersul]

Nah, that's just stupid, not chaotic.
Chaotic just means that you are open to a more liberal approach when applying laws. At least, it does for me.
Of course, lawful people don't follow every law either.

That's because there's a huge amount of silly ones floating around. Things like being illegal to walk around with your shoes untied, or watering your grass in the rain, or having an internet connection faster than 56kb/s. :smallbiggrin:

[RandomNPC]

i'm not a pally either, but thats just because i like to play jokes on people.

i don't count all the laws i break, because of things like this:

in my hometown it is ilegal to ride a bike in the street, bikes go on the sidewalk.

it is illegal to ride a bike on the sidewalk, thats where pedestrians go.

therefore, owning a bike is accessory to crime.

[sktarq]

I have always disliked paladins and never wanted to be one-played plenty in various RPG's as a kind of mental challenge to myself. I always looked at the "white Knights" and reacted with a "why are they the hero?" kind of feeling. I'm far too chaotic minded-I distrust law almost by instinct. I'd say I'm a priest by your definition of helping people but I'm rather anti-piousness. The idea of serving a god, leader, etc repels me and sets my teeth on edge....fighting edge.


A Paladin is Charismatic. When he Speaks, everyone stops to Listen.
Actually, yeah that's about right

A Paladin is Wise. She knows when to hold her Tongue.
Actually that isn't too bad, I think and others say they ask me stuff because the think me wise-so sorta

A Paladin is Just. He upholds Law and Morality.
MY idea of law and morality. May have nothing to do with other's ideas of such things.

A Paladin is Forgiving. She holds no Grudge, seeks no Revenge.
Okay I could stand to less forgiving-I find you end allowing for greater hurt if you do it too much

A Paladin is Righteous. He allows no Evil to go unchecked.
NO evil? Sorry don't have the time or firepower. But I do what I can and warn when possible

A Paladin is Pure. She allows no Wicked or Lustful thoughts within herself.
Sorry but I rather want those thoughts-Honestly I like them-they make you grow

A Paladin is Armored. He is protected from the weapons of the world.
Kevlar chafes-so no but I love my leather jackets, big boots and blue jeans

A Paladin is Brave. She stands alone against the Darkness and shows no fear.
Shrug-Somewhat I seem alot more Brave than I am....But I don't think showing no fear is bravery....Doing a different action because you are afraid is when corage is called into question

A Paladin is a Warrior. He wields his Blade with Strength and Skill.
A Paladin is a Priest. She Comforts and Lifts up those in Need.
A Paladin is Mighty. He strikes down his Foes and withstands their Assaults.
A Paladin is Humble. She holds no Pride, nor refuses Help when needed.

A Paladin is everything I am not.

[Griever]

i'm not a pally either, but thats just because i like to play jokes on people.

i don't count all the laws i break, because of things like this:

in my hometown it is ilegal to ride a bike in the street, bikes go on the sidewalk.

it is illegal to ride a bike on the sidewalk, thats where pedestrians go.

therefore, owning a bike is accessory to crime.

There is a law I can get behind!!

[hamishspence]

I've seen "Murder is Chaotic, Execution Lawful, neither is good or evil in itself in D&D" as an argument.

[Eldan]

Nonsense, really. Taking a life is almost always an evil act. The reasons may be chaotic and or lawful, though. If he committed a crime and has been sentenced to death, it would probably be lawful. Murdering someone for the hell of it is belkaresquishly chaotic evil.

[hamishspence]

the usual reason is- the law might not convict the person who "deserves death" , and will waste time and money.

I can get behind Killing being a Neutral act, but only by incorporating BoED rules that require non-evil killings to have just cause, and, be after fair trial, or in self-defense, defense of others, after surrender offer has been turned down, etc.

[Edge of Dreams]

Hallo, everybody.

I wanted to wait and see what replies I'd get to the original post before explaining anything, and boy was I surprised to refresh this 12 hours later and see two pages of replies.

I am glad to see the number of people who agree with me that there is some archetype of good they strive to live up to. I always had a sense that paladins and the like were awesome, but the real revelation was when I realized that a big part of their awesomeness comes from the way they represent what I wish I could be in real life.


We are human. We are not perfect. The only way we fall short is by giving up.

I love this, Jax. This is another key element of my personal philosophy.

As for the lawfulness bothering people, alignment and so on, here's all I'm gonna say: Morality and Legality are rarely the same thing, and the failure to realize that is the source of many many of the problems with religious people and government in both D&D and the real world. I don't want to be Lawful Good - I want to be Good, and I would prefer for the Law to be Good as well, but the Law is never the judge of what is Good.

[Eldan]

I agree with you there: the law, if it is there, should be good. However, my fundamental problem is a different one:
Paladins also embrace codes of conduct. They abstain from certain behaviour because they deem it unlawful. They believe in laws, societies, bravery, self-sacrifice.
While these are all ideals I can theoretically get behind, they fall short of a few others I would place higher up, amongst which freedom, of any kind, would probably take first place.
This is the key reason why I disagree to this: while one should not hurt others, and never has the right to, nor limit their freedom, he should also not be required to follow rules he doesn't want to.
It's difficult to explain ,really, and hard to get the point across to people. I do, however, think that one can theoretically be allowed to do anything that does not go against the will of others.

[hamishspence]

Ah, but if you believe some philosophers, Law was made specifically to restrain evil:

"the sight of a man injuring his benefactor evoked in them, hatred and sympathy, and they blamed the ungrateful and respected those who showed gratitude, well aware that the same injuries might have been done to themselves. Hence to prevent evil of this kind they took to making laws and assigning punishments to those who contravened them. The notion of justice thus came into being"

Its an interesting notion, that Law was invented by the Good to restrain evil. How true may depend on your views.

[hamishspence]

I have also seen the argument that it is initiating violations of the rights of others, and only this, that is evil- right to not be harmed, robbed, or enslaved.

[Eldan]

That may be the case. I do not think that the intention behind a body of law is necessarily bad (not in the "evil" sense). However, laws often generalize, and are applied rigorously. This is what for me, is part of the definition of lawful, the idea that laws have to be applied.

[hamishspence]

which is when "pardons" "clemency" "commuted" and the like come in, allowing discretion without violating the law.

[Eldan]

Of course, in a perfectly lawful system, these terms would have to be regulated as well, otherwise, they would be arbitrary, like depending on the judgment of a judge. And through these regulations, they would be worthless again.

[Saint Nil]

Good to know there are other people who try to achieve this in there lives. Might I suggest you read the code of Chivalry some time? Its a great way to live your life, without restricting yourself too much.

Also, I completly agree with you about the earlier list. The nobleness of the paladin is a great thing too strive for.

The BoED isn't that bad either.Yes, it can be very silly in some parts, but it has some great role-playing tips for good characters.

[Fan]

Plus awesome sauce people like Nil come out of being LG.
yes I'm stalking him now.:smalltongue:

[Saint Nil]

Okay Fanboy, lets try not to derail the thread. Plus, I honestly havn't done much for the playground, besides you and happyturtle.

[Fan]

Okay Fanboy, lets try not to derail the thread. Plus, I honestly havn't done much for the playground, besides you and happyturtle.

Okay. okay. I'll stop.
I'm not much of a Paladin Rl either, but hats because I don't feel liek I do enough in my Rural community.

[tribble]

I don't think we really do have a lot of RL paladins. that's a shame. Paladins are great people, really. Even if Miko is a self-righteous jerk, I'd still rather hang with Miko than, say, Kubota.

[Tengu_temp]

I'm glad to see that in this world, where everyone and their dog thinks that amoral, anti-heroic jerks are cool and badass, there are still some people who strive to actually be better people. Kudos.

[Kris Strife]

I don't think we really do have a lot of RL paladins. that's a shame. Paladins are great people, really. Even if Miko is a self-righteous jerk, I'd still rather hang with Miko than, say, Kubota.

Thats cause Kubota would stab you in the back if he thought you might at some point possibly consider being potentially any where near being in his way. Miko would just challenge you to combat if she thought you might have broken the law.

[Eldan]

Don't get me wrong: I still think that within a story, antiheroes tend to be very interesting characters. They are still not the kind of characters I'd like to be dominating a society. Paladins are a pretty good choice for that one. I mean, if everyone were a paladin, this entire discussion about laws would be pointless.

[nerfieguy]

I had an interesting revelation recently, and I wished to share it in a place where people would understand the context and see what they think.

In World of Warcraft, Dungeons and Dragons Fourth Edition, and various other games, I love to play as a Paladin.

I am not a Paladin.

A Paladin is Charismatic. When he Speaks, everyone stops to Listen.
A Paladin is Wise. She knows when to hold her Tongue.
A Paladin is Just. He upholds Law and Morality.
A Paladin is Forgiving. She holds no Grudge, seeks no Revenge.
A Paladin is Righteous. He allows no Evil to go unchecked.
A Paladin is Pure. She allows no Wicked or Lustful thoughts within herself.
A Paladin is Armored. He is protected from the weapons of the world.
A Paladin is Brave. She stands alone against the Darkness and shows no fear.
A Paladin is a Warrior. He wields his Blade with Strength and Skill.
A Paladin is a Priest. She Comforts and Lifts up those in Need.
A Paladin is Mighty. He strikes down his Foes and withstands their Assaults.
A Paladin is Humble. She holds no Pride, nor refuses Help when needed.

A Paladin is everything I am not.

And that is why I play a Paladin.



i play world of warcraft and its awesome i love the good old pallys theyre awesome they can heal fight and aoe theyre jus pureeee :smallcool::smallcool:cooooooool:smallcool:

[Renegade Paladin]

in my hometown it is ilegal to ride a bike in the street, bikes go on the sidewalk.
Odd. Every state I've ever spent long enough in to justify having my bike with me has a state law making it illegal to ride your bike on the sidewalk, with the same penalty as driving a car on it. You're a hazard to pedestrians.

[Raz_Fox]

I had an interesting revelation recently, and I wished to share it in a place where people would understand the context and see what they think.

In World of Warcraft, Dungeons and Dragons Fourth Edition, and various other games, I love to play as a Paladin.

I am not a Paladin.

A Paladin is Charismatic. When he Speaks, everyone stops to Listen.
A Paladin is Wise. She knows when to hold her Tongue.
A Paladin is Just. He upholds Law and Morality.
A Paladin is Forgiving. She holds no Grudge, seeks no Revenge.
A Paladin is Righteous. He allows no Evil to go unchecked.
A Paladin is Pure. She allows no Wicked or Lustful thoughts within herself.
A Paladin is Armored. He is protected from the weapons of the world.
A Paladin is Brave. She stands alone against the Darkness and shows no fear.
A Paladin is a Warrior. He wields his Blade with Strength and Skill.
A Paladin is a Priest. She Comforts and Lifts up those in Need.
A Paladin is Mighty. He strikes down his Foes and withstands their Assaults.
A Paladin is Humble. She holds no Pride, nor refuses Help when needed.

A Paladin is everything I am not.

And that is why I play a Paladin.

Let me run this down the personal checklist.

Charismatic - When I speak, few stop to listen.
Wise - Not a chance. :smallsigh:
Just - I do my personal best to be just.
Forgiving - Again, I do my best here. Not that good, though. Every day I'm getting better at it.
Righteous - I'm not righteous, but I'm more righteous than those around me.
Pure - Well, I have some really interesting... KILL IT WITH FIRE!!! DIE!!! Y'all didn't see that.
Armored - One of the few things I'm good at.
Brave - No way. I am afraid of the literal darkness. :smallannoyed:
Warrior - Inasmuch as I can, I try to fight the sin inside of myself. More of a mental warrior than a physical one.
Priest - Yes. This seems to be my skill - helping those in need and lifting spirits.
Mighty - I'm a wimp. Nuff said.
Humble - Not my best trait. I do have some humility, however.

I'm nowhere near a paladin. I'm no warrior of law, or paragon of goodness. The point is: no one is a paladin, no one is perfect. Everyone falls, and everyone has the chance to get back up.

Is a warrior who strikes down evil better than someone who is curteous and kind whenever he can, just for virtue's sake? A holy knight better than someone who helps without asking or even wanting reward?

[Jack Squat]

Odd. Every state I've ever spent long enough in to justify having my bike with me has a state law making it illegal to ride your bike on the sidewalk, with the same penalty as driving a car on it. You're a hazard to pedestrians.

We're either way. We'd stick to street, but there's two bike lanes. One on a street right by the campus library. Until recently, it was blocked by one of those PODS and a huge pile of dirt. It's also a favorite parking space for delivery trucks, despite them passing a no-entry sign first.

The other one is the experiment as to whether or not they're worth putting into a lot of roads. It's gravel. So yeah...for the most part people think of bikes as a pedestrian/vehicle hybrid.

[Gray Jester]

See, I'm rather curious about what generalizations we can draw from this thread, rather then the actual paladins themselves (short version: I don't like paladins. The idea of it being good to offer yourself in service to a higher power without any questioning/etc., which is what lawful, in my mind, includes, just drives me up the wall).

The main thing is, are people more likely to model their character after what they -wish- they were, or what they -know- they are not, or even what is closest to who they are now? I can see the whole 'wish they were' argument, and I often find myself incorporating parts of characters I've played heavily into myself anyways, which makes it a more powerful argument to me (e.x. quirks, speech oddities, or dialect. I've caught myself speaking like a dwarf more then once after playing one online through NWN's system, or, more scarily, viewing others as tools after playing a LE wizard). On the other hand, what you know you are not could be an exercise in self-expansion, and what is closest to how you actually are would have its advantages, too.

For me, I design my characters around ideas that I have; usually reflecting caricatures of certain traits I like or don't like about myself, and then fleshing them out from there, although some of that is as arbitrary as a die roll--the fleshing out process is sort of mandatory to make them more 'real', but the idea, such as "insecure enchanter", or the like, is what really forms the core of the character.

[Renegade Paladin]

Not to a higher power necessarily, but to an ideal; that ideal being the service and protection of your fellow man. It's good by its very nature, because at its very best the paladin's duty is to seek the best for those around him. For the worst, you get Miko, but to someone who strives eyes open for the ideal for the ideal's sake, rather than someone who's in it mindlessly for the power (nonexistent in real life, barring what a human can train himself to do) or "just because," without understanding, such a result is unlikely, to say the least, since it is the result of hubris.

Hubris is why I refuse to speculate on just how close I am to X on that parabola; there is no need to talk about how righteous you are, and one who does probably isn't.

[Saint Nil]

I fail to see the problem with dedicating yourself to a higher power.:smallannoyed:

[Moff Chumley]

Listen to Primus. That automatically qualifies you to be whatever you want to be, as long as you want to be a garbage collector.

[Copacetic]

I have a little voice in my head. He keeps telling me to color the walls deep purple and spout random nonsense. I haz me a voice of Chaos!

But yeah. Strive for things better than you, and will you become better then you were.

[Ash08]

This may be straying from the topic a bit, but I'll say it any since we are talking about Paliadins.

if one thinks about it long enough, the whole idea of right and wrong is simply a point of view. What we do is wrong only because other think it wrong. If what we do is good it is only good because of what others think and what you think. The baseline of good (in my point of view) is helping and not harming, and when trying to find the moral point of ones actions its almost impossible to judge something right from wrong. In many ways it is impossible to help without doing harm to anything, so the idea of good in someways reverts to helping yourself before others, which I consider to be (morally) selfish. So in many ways the moral spectrum is so bendy that anything can be good and anything can be evil. With that said, its almost like the moral spectrum barely exists... (brain has now tied itself into knot)...

[Gray Jester]

I fail to see the problem with dedicating yourself to a higher power.:smallannoyed:

I think of it this way. I have my own, well defined system of morals that I aspire to. I don't necessarily live up to them, all the time, but I try. They are very distinctly -mine-, and nobody else's, and some other power dictating to me what is 'right' and what is 'wrong', without me coming to that conclusion based on experience... it's that that bothers me. Who are they to say what's right for me? *shrugs* It's partly a pride based thing, partly an independence based thing, and partly the fact that I lean towards being chaotic.

[Dorizzit]

Paladins have always held a special place in my heart. I try to be a good person, who does what he can to make the lives of those around him easier. Although I can never match up to what I would like of myself, I try. And I am content with the happiness I bring to others.


I wonder how I compare?
A Paladin is Charismatic. When he Speaks, everyone stops to Listen. Sort of...I generally follow the leader, but in a group without a good leader I will take the lead.
A Paladin is Wise. She knows when to hold her Tongue. I think I can do pretty well in this regard. I know when, I just don't always do it...
A Paladin is Just. He upholds Law and Morality. I don't cheat, or steal, or hurt others. I try to stop my friends from doing the same.
A Paladin is Forgiving. She holds no Grudge, seeks no Revenge. I don't hold grudges. Period. I just don't.
A Paladin is Righteous. He allows no Evil to go unchecked. I don't start fights, but...if I see something I think is wrong, I do my best to stop it.
A Paladin is Pure. She allows no Wicked or Lustful thoughts within herself. Hah, no. My thoughts are, no matter how hard I try to regiment them, uncontrollable.
A Paladin is Brave. She stands alone against the Darkness and shows no fear. I have never been tested.
A Paladin is a Warrior. He wields his Blade with Strength and Skill. I don't get out much.
A Paladin is a Priest. She Comforts and Lifts up those in Need. I am an athiest, but I try to help those around me.
A Paladin is Humble. She holds no Pride, nor refuses Help when needed. I cannot truly answer this. If I say I am, I am not, if I say not, it could be that I am.

[tribble]

This may be straying from the topic a bit, but I'll say it any since we are talking about Paliadins.

if one thinks about it long enough, the whole idea of right and wrong is simply a point of view. What we do is wrong only because other think it wrong. If what we do is good it is only good because of what others think and what you think. The baseline of good (in my point of view) is helping and not harming, and when trying to find the moral point of ones actions its almost impossible to judge something right from wrong. In many ways it is impossible to help without doing harm to anything, so the idea of good in someways reverts to helping yourself before others, which I consider to be (morally) selfish. So in many ways the moral spectrum is so bendy that anything can be good and anything can be evil. With that said, its almost like the moral spectrum barely exists... (brain has now tied itself into knot)...

"good" people work for the benefit (as they see it) of others. this could be a group of friends, or the entire world. "evil" people do what they do out of malice or selfishness. basically, in psychological terms, Good people are ruled by the Superego (as in, beyond self.), Evil people are motivated by Id.
Lawful people believe the best way to achieve their goals (be it the greater good or world domination) is through a "process", or law. Chaotic people believe processes, or laws, to be an impediment to these goals.

[Dorizzit]

Good people are ruled by the Superego (as in, beyond self.), Evil people are motivated by Id.

I don't think that's necessarily true. Good people often want to do what they're doing, and there are plenty of cases of evil people serving higher causes.

[Defiant]

For the heck of it, I'll address each point. (please don't view this as conceited or anything like that... at worst, view it as a bored "fill-in-the-list" type of thing)


A Paladin is Charismatic. When he Speaks, everyone stops to Listen.

Nobody listens to me. :smallfrown:
But I do consider myself at least a bit charismatic (those fools don't know what they're missing :smallwink: )


A Paladin is Wise. She knows when to hold her Tongue.

Well, I'm getting wiser by the day, but I don't know about having that much wisdom.


A Paladin is Just. He upholds Law and Morality.

How can I do that when my own moral parameters are undefined?


A Paladin is Forgiving. She holds no Grudge, seeks no Revenge.

I try my best, and usually succeed. But is it because I'm good, or is it because I'm evil?


A Paladin is Righteous. He allows no Evil to go unchecked.

I also like living a life, so no.


A Paladin is Pure. She allows no Wicked or Lustful thoughts within herself.

Nigh-impossible, so no.


A Paladin is Armored. He is protected from the weapons of the world.

If you count my pink, soft, tender, vulnerable, and defenseless flesh as "Armored", then absolutely!


A Paladin is Brave. She stands alone against the Darkness and shows no fear.

Among my three immunities, fear is not one of them, though I do have a good resistance to it.


A Paladin is a Warrior. He wields his Blade with Strength and Skill.

I wield my word with tact and suave :smallbiggrin:


A Paladin is a Priest. She Comforts and Lifts up those in Need.

I do try to do those things... it's just they never come up that often.


A Paladin is Mighty. He strikes down his Foes and withstands their Assaults.

If you take away the "striking down" and the "withstanding the assaults", then yes.


A Paladin is Humble. She holds no Pride, nor refuses Help when needed.

I try!


A Paladin is everything I am not.

It's OK. Not all of us (like me) are perfect. :smalltongue:

[Raz_Fox]

This may be straying from the topic a bit, but I'll say it any since we are talking about Paliadins.

if one thinks about it long enough, the whole idea of right and wrong is simply a point of view. What we do is wrong only because other think it wrong. If what we do is good it is only good because of what others think and what you think. The baseline of good (in my point of view) is helping and not harming, and when trying to find the moral point of ones actions its almost impossible to judge something right from wrong. In many ways it is impossible to help without doing harm to anything, so the idea of good in someways reverts to helping yourself before others, which I consider to be (morally) selfish. So in many ways the moral spectrum is so bendy that anything can be good and anything can be evil. With that said, its almost like the moral spectrum barely exists... (brain has now tied itself into knot)...

Without getting into dangerous territory, I must disagree with you. My beliefs are that there is such a thing as absolute good and then there's absolute evil. We can't hit absolute evil - where there is no scrap of good in us - at all. However, we cannot - by ourselves - hit absolute good. There is such a thing as something that is good by the true standard but evil by society's standard.

Your moral spectrum seems to be "Whatever you like, man!" Mine's a lot harder to achieve, but at the same time a lot easier. Mine's not about helping others just because, but choosing to be a servant instead of a lord.

...That went off on a tangent, didn't it?

[Krrth]

Without getting into dangerous territory, I must disagree with you. My beliefs are that there is such a thing as absolute good and then there's absolute evil. We can't hit absolute evil - where there is no scrap of good in us - at all. However, we cannot - by ourselves - hit absolute good. There is such a thing as something that is good by the true standard but evil by society's standard.

Your moral spectrum seems to be "Whatever you like, man!" Mine's a lot harder to achieve, but at the same time a lot easier. Mine's not about helping others just because, but choosing to be a servant instead of a lord.

...That went off on a tangent, didn't it?
Not really, and I happen to agree with you. Dedication to something greater than ones self is the very idea of a Paladin. That something can be a God(s), a cause, or even a set of ideals: It's the sense that you work for something bigger that matters.

[hamishspence]

I've seen "Evil is negation- the complete absence of Good, not a thing in itself" before. This may go with "evil people are the misguided and the damaged, victims as well as villains, and deserve compassion, not hatred"

which doesn't mean automatically Save the Villain at any cost, but does fit with Do Not Hate types of fiction, from Star Wars to David Gemmell.

[The_Librarian]

Going back to the OP, I don't think I play a paladin very well. See between the spoilers for an assessment of my most prolific paladin (I've also played paladin in WoW)



A Paladin is Charismatic. When he Speaks, everyone stops to Listen.
I wish.

A Paladin is Wise. She knows when to hold her Tongue.
Uh... nope.

A Paladin is Just. He upholds Law and Morality.
Check!

A Paladin is Forgiving. She holds no Grudge, seeks no Revenge.
*coughs awkwardly*

A Paladin is Righteous. He allows no Evil to go unchecked.
Wait, wait, lets go back to the forgiving part! That necromancer was helping out!

A Paladin is Pure. She allows no Wicked or Lustful thoughts within herself.
*buries head in arms*

A Paladin is Armored. He is protected from the weapons of the world.
Check. Plus big, bad wolf.

A Paladin is Brave. She stands alone against the Darkness and shows no fear.
Pretty much.

A Paladin is a Warrior. He wields his Blade with Strength and Skill.
Yep!

A Paladin is a Priest. She Comforts and Lifts up those in Need.
She tries... occasionally.

A Paladin is Mighty. He strikes down his Foes and withstands their Assaults.
Died...3 times so far.

A Paladin is Humble. She holds no Pride, nor refuses Help when needed.
Actually, yes.


Let's see:
1) My brothers told me not to
2) They can heal AND use magic
3) #2 really annoys my brothers
4) They're pretty easy to solo with, but nice enough to get on well in groups
5) They're trying do good in the world :smallsmile:
6) They're a bit more interesting (especially when falling)
7) it's what I'd want to be if I could IRL

And that is why I play a Paladin.

[Ash08]

Your moral spectrum seems to be "Whatever you like, man!" Mine's a lot harder to achieve, but at the same time a lot easier. Mine's not about helping others just because, but choosing to be a servant instead of a lord.

...That went off on a tangent, didn't it?

In some ways I would agree with your disagreeing(I am well aware that makes now since). That isn't my moral spectrum, it is simply my observations of other people's moral spectrum. Personally as a person against sameness, I try as hard as possible to find the idea of "true goodness" in myself and use it. And about the servant and not a lord ideaology, I find that to be a great idea, and used to try something of the sort myself. However, people started treating me like a spineless pacifist(the pacifist part is true). I did not enjoy this, so now I've settled for a more intermediate aproach.

[PaladinBoy]

There's a reason for my profile name...

... I wish. :smallfrown:

Yeah... stuff like this always makes me feel depressed about how poorly I'm doing compared with my standards...

I'll compare myself to the list.

A Paladin is Charismatic. When he Speaks, everyone stops to Listen.
I wish. I can command some attention in a chaotic argument, but not often.
A Paladin is Wise. She knows when to hold her Tongue.
I'd like to think so... but I usually wouldn't call myself wise. I can be quite the fool.
A Paladin is Just. He upholds Law and Morality.
This is me. Breaking rules, particularly moral standards, comes very difficult for me...
A Paladin is Forgiving. She holds no Grudge, seeks no Revenge.
Also me. I generally ignore anything that annoys me, and try to avoid bad feelings even when I've been getting the short end of the stick.
A Paladin is Righteous. He allows no Evil to go unchecked.
...:smallfrown: I ignore problems too often...
A Paladin is Pure. She allows no Wicked or Lustful thoughts within herself.
The best I can say for myself here is that I try not to express anything... uh, impolite.
A Paladin is Armored. He is protected from the weapons of the world.
Do steel armor and Phalanx CIWS count? I'll be an officer eventually. (Go Navy!)
A Paladin is Brave. She stands alone against the Darkness and shows no fear.
... I wish, but no.
A Paladin is a Warrior. He wields his Blade with Strength and Skill.
No, but that's why college exists (well, some colleges more than others). Assuming, of course, that TLAMs count.
A Paladin is a Priest. She Comforts and Lifts up those in Need.
I do my best... I don't think I do very well, but I try to offer some comfort.
A Paladin is Mighty. He strikes down his Foes and withstands their Assaults.
In personal combat? No. A few years down the road, aboard my first ship...? Hopefully.
A Paladin is Humble. She holds no Pride, nor refuses Help when needed.
I wish, and I usually avoid bragging, but then I look at this list... I'm not exactly being very modest here.

[Moff Chumley]

A thought on morality and absolutes: would you be 'good' if there were no standards for good? Or would you do what you felt was right?

[Ash08]

Exactly my point in my first post on this thread, thats just what I was talking about... in the general sense...:smallconfused:

[Lupy]

A Paladin is Charismatic. When he Speaks, everyone stops to Listen.
Yes.

A Paladin is Wise. She knows when to hold her Tongue.
I'm getting there.

A Paladin is Just. He upholds Law and Morality.
I try hard...

A Paladin is Forgiving. She holds no Grudge, seeks no Revenge.
If only.

A Paladin is Righteous. He allows no Evil to go unchecked.
I try hard...

A Paladin is Pure. She allows no Wicked or Lustful thoughts within herself.
Again, I try hard.

A Paladin is Armored. He is protected from the weapons of the world.
Yes.

A Paladin is Brave. She stands alone against the Darkness and shows no fear.
Certainly.

A Paladin is a Warrior. He wields his Blade with Strength and Skill.
I am on my way there...

A Paladin is a Priest. She Comforts and Lifts up those in Need.
Always.

A Paladin is Mighty. He strikes down his Foes and withstands their Assaults.
Yes.

A Paladin is Humble. She holds no Pride, nor refuses Help when needed.
I try...

Yoda would be ashamed of my answers...

[Yarram]

I had an interesting revelation recently, and I wished to share it in a place where people would understand the context and see what they think.
A Paladin is Charismatic. When he Speaks, everyone stops to Listen. <tick?>
A Paladin is Wise. She knows when to hold her Tongue. <tick>
A Paladin is Just. He upholds Law and Morality. <tick>
A Paladin is Forgiving. She holds no Grudge, seeks no Revenge. <tick>
A Paladin is Righteous. He allows no Evil to go unchecked. <meh>
A Paladin is Pure. She allows no Wicked or Lustful thoughts within herself. <meh>
A Paladin is Armored. He is protected from the weapons of the world.
A Paladin is Brave. She stands alone against the Darkness and shows no fear. <?>
A Paladin is a Warrior. He wields his Blade with Strength and Skill.
A Paladin is a Priest. She Comforts and Lifts up those in Need. <meh>
A Paladin is Mighty. He strikes down his Foes and withstands their Assaults. <meh>
A Paladin is Humble. She holds no Pride, nor refuses Help when needed. <tick>

A Paladin is everything I am not.

And that is why I play a Paladin.

I guess thats why if I ever played WoW I'd want to be on the horde. =D

[Kris Strife]

As much as I try to meet these standards, I know I fail and mess up on most of them, but I do try. And I love to play paladins, even though I tend to be a bit of a bitter boophole paladin.