Which one of the twins do you think is the oldest/youngest?

[Cizak]

Elan or Nale?

(Yes, this thread is completely pointless, I know.)

[Belkster11]

Nale is the oldest brother of the two.

I think he said that himself when he first met Elan.

[Studoku]

Definately Nale.

[Cizak]

Definately Nale.

You mean he's the oldest? :smalltongue:

[David Argall]

Nale seems the better bet to be the older brother [unless they have another sibling we have not heard about.] in some respects. However, the trope generally is for the younger brother to be evil. [When you have several brothers, it's the youngest who is good, but when we are talking two, the younger is evil. Possibly this is due to the older brother inheriting everything and the younger being pretty much just a spare. So a lot of younger brothers saw how they could profit quite a bit from an "accident" to their sibling, and a lot of older brothers saw them seeing this. And since the older brother had the coin to pay the bard, the story showed him as hero. But when you have a lot of brothers, the chance of the youngest getting much, even if a couple of older brothers die, is pretty low, and so he is deemed innocent, and the good brother.]
Elan being the older does give Nale a reason for his obsession with getting Elan [besides his general view that anybody who irritates him should die in agony]. As the older brother, he would get the throne, and there may be a powerful empire at stake. So Nale would want to get rid of his rival.

[hamishspence]

the traditional number is three- the Third Brother is always nice and not respected by older ones, and always completes the quest when the other two fail. What happens next depends on tale.

[B. Dandelion]

However, the trope generally is for the younger brother to be evil.
You mean like the original bastard, Abel?

It was totally a setup. Cain was framed.

[hamishspence]

I prefer The Devil's Apocrypha novel version by John Devito- Abel hit him, he killed Abel in a temper.

[Isolder74]

I'm not so sure there is the Jacob/Esau thing.

[hamishspence]

Not sure if the idea of Jacob as Bad twin was what intent was :smallbiggrin:

Ishmael/Issac were half-brothers, but not twins.

Then there is Joseph, youngest of bunch of brothers & half-brothers.

[Isolder74]

Not sure if the idea of Jacob as Bad twin was what intent was :smallbiggrin:

Ishmael/Issac were half-brothers, but not twins.

Then there is Joseph, youngest of bunch of brothers & half-brothers.

That was kind of my point.

[Warlord JK]

I would think Elan is the younger brother just because his personality is very much like a younger brother, not one used to giving orders but recieving them. Nale is the older because he is the more commanding type.

[Mauve Shirt]

Nale is the older one.

[Zeitgeist]

Being such a short time apart, I don't think you can tell by their personalities which was born first. Not to mention I don't think they even spent any time together.

Suffice it to say - there's no way to tell unless they say so. The only thing I could remotely consider is that the father took Nale because he was firstborn, and the father is more likely to do that than the mother, I'd think. But I think that's a stretch.

[omgpeachsnapple]

I could have sworn it said somewhere that Nale was the other one ... but I can't find it. :smalleek:

[Assassin89]

Nale seems the better bet to be the older brother [unless they have another sibling we have not heard about.] in some respects. However, the trope generally is for the younger brother to be evil. [When you have several brothers, it's the youngest who is good, but when we are talking two, the younger is evil. Possibly this is due to the older brother inheriting everything and the younger being pretty much just a spare. So a lot of younger brothers saw how they could profit quite a bit from an "accident" to their sibling, and a lot of older brothers saw them seeing this. And since the older brother had the coin to pay the bard, the story showed him as hero. But when you have a lot of brothers, the chance of the youngest getting much, even if a couple of older brothers die, is pretty low, and so he is deemed innocent, and the good brother.]
Elan being the older does give Nale a reason for his obsession with getting Elan [besides his general view that anybody who irritates him should die in agony]. As the older brother, he would get the throne, and there may be a powerful empire at stake. So Nale would want to get rid of his rival.

The only problem with your explanation for Elan being the older twin is that if Elan was next in line for the throne, his father would have taken Elan, not Nale after the father sued for divorce.

[David Argall]

Easily gotten around. In the divorce settlement, ma got first choice and took Elan since he was the cuter one.
Or Pa wasn't paying much attention and took the wrong one.
Or...

Lots of excuses we can use.

[Ramien]

The only problem with your explanation for Elan being the older twin is that if Elan was next in line for the throne, his father would have taken Elan, not Nale after the father sued for divorce.

Why would that matter? Their father was an evil overlord, and a fairly competent one at that. I'd bet that, when forging his empire, he put in a clause that his heir would be a matter of his choosing rather than through some accident of birth (he is lawful evil, after all).

And Nale hates Elan for a very simple reason: Elan denied him. Nale was willing to work with Elan and have him join 'a new team' (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0054.html). Elan turned him down, Nale felt insulted, and thus was more than willing to wreak vengeance. After all, "The Linear Guild is practically synonymous with taking disproportionate revenge over quasi-imagined slights!" Nothing to do with who's the heir to the throne... Nale's just a sick and twisted individual who hates to be denied.

[Lissou]

Since they're identical twins, they're the exact same age. There can only be an older and a younger twin for fraternal twins.

If you mean, in which order they were born, I'd say Elan first, and he banged his head on the wall, so their mom moved away from the wall for Nale >.>

[Caleniel]

Since they're identical twins, they're the exact same age. There can only be an older and a younger twin for fraternal twins.

If you mean, in which order they were born, I'd say Elan first, and he banged his head on the wall, so their mom moved away from the wall for Nale >.>

*puzzled*

Ehm, I assume that birth order is the ONLY way to determine seniority of twins, no matter what sort of twins they are?

ALL twins are conceived at the same time, and given birth to at the same event. Any sort of... alternative... just seems too scary to try to imagine. For a mum anyway. :smallsmile:

[Arkenputtyknife]

Since they're identical twins, they're the exact same age. There can only be an older and a younger twin for fraternal twins.

If you mean, in which order they were born, I'd say Elan first, and he banged his head on the wall, so their mom moved away from the wall for Nale >.>

Last time I checked, age was almost invariably measured from birth, not from conception. It's commonplace to say that one of a pair of twins is a few minutes older than the other.

Or should we all be adding 9 months to the ages we declare in various places?

[Roderick_BR]

You mean like the original bastard, Abel?

It was totally a setup. Cain was framed.
By who? We have 4 characters, 1 being the murder, and 1 being the victim. Only their parents are left.... unless there is someone else....
:elan: dun dun duuuuun

@David Argall: Always the younger? I always thought it was the older one, you know, he's supposed to be the favourite, new baby brother shows up, and things go to heck. Many stories I saw with brothers usually have the older brother either as the younger brother's hero, or the older jealous of the attention the younger one gets.

[Shatteredtower]

Here I thought this was going to be a thread on the Mugen Twins...

Nale is clearly older, as shown in the first panel on line five from this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html):

1. Notice his facial hair. Clearly, this marks him as the Esau (named for his hair) of the pair, and therefore the eldest. His wiliness may seem to mark him as more the Jacob type at first, but the fighter levels suggest a higher Strength score, more in line with Esau again. He's also the one with the birthright, which Elan has yet to steal.

2. Unless you are colour blind, you'll have noticed that the colour of their diapers match the sashes they wear as adults. What's the most standard form of colour-blindness? Red-green. Notice which colour comes first? Clearly proof that Nale is the eldest!

And while the Smothers Brothers were not twins, let's not forget the familiar lamentation of Tommy, the elder: "Mom always did like you best." You think Nale wouldn't think in similar terms?

What's that? You find these to be flimsy arguments? Oh, sure -- but it's not like anyone's offered more solid evidence for either brother. :smallwink:

[Spiky]

By who? We have 4 characters, 1 being the murder, and 1 being the victim. Only their parents are left.... unless there is someone else....
:elan: dun dun duuuuun


Um, there were many others. This happened when the 2 bros were grown up enough to have gone out on their own, at least as far as farming is concerned. Plenty of other kids around by then, probably including Seth, the only one that mattered later. To quote paraphrase Bill Cosby on the very subject: 'They had fruits, because sex feels good.'

(forgot the exact quote)

[Linkavitch]

In the flashback shot of them as babies, didn't their mom say off-camera, "Nale! Stop hitting your poor, defenceless younger brother on his poor, undeveloped skull!" Or, something like that?

[Kish]

In the flashback shot of them as babies, didn't their mom say off-camera, "Nale! Stop hitting your poor, defenceless younger brother on his poor, undeveloped skull!" Or, something like that?
You know, you could check (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html) as easily as I could.

She does not call Elan Nale's younger brother.

[David Argall]

*puzzled*

Ehm, I assume that birth order is the ONLY way to determine seniority of twins, no matter what sort of twins they are?

ALL twins are conceived at the same time, and given birth to at the same event. Any sort of... alternative... just seems too scary to try to imagine. For a mum anyway. :smallsmile:

It's not something to lose sleep over, but several alternatives have been verified. Sometimes one of the twins simply is not ready and won't exit the womb for days after the other.
And under rare conditions, the twins can be fathered by different men and not necessarily on the same day.

[Assassin89]

Well if we compare Elan and Nale to the Mario Bros. (Nintendo characters):

Nale = Mario - Red color scheme, tend to be leaders/main hero (although Nale is a villian)
Elan = Luigi - Green color scheme, tend to followers/underdogs/occasional hero

And since Mario is considered the older brother, Nale is the older brother if the parallels remain constant.

[hamishspence]

Rare in humans, but, I am told, quite common in cats.

[Lokasenna]

You know, you could check (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html) as easily as I could.

She does not call Elan Nale's younger brother.

...He has the goatee already. A baby one at least. That is scary.

[Assassin89]

Overall the difference in age between the two is completely negligible because a few minutes or hours is not significant enough to determine who is older.

[someonenonotyou]

no the third (Nuteral) twin is the oldest duh

[Shatteredtower]

Overall the difference in age between the two is completely negligible because a few minutes or hours is not significant enough to determine who is older.

It's significant enough to matter to Nale, significant enough that he'd probably hunt down any older (whether by minutes or years) sibling on principle, without the need for additional pretext. :smallwink:

[House_of_Dexter]

Not sure if the idea of Jacob as Bad twin was what intent was :smallbiggrin:

Ishmael/Issac were half-brothers, but not twins.

Then there is Joseph, youngest of bunch of brothers & half-brothers.
almost youngest...Benjamin was the youngest...:smallcool:

[hamishspence]

I think Benjamin might have been born right after Joseph went away- how big is the gap and how old is Ben? They are, if I remeber rightly, full brothers, whereas the others are all half-brothers to Joseph.

[Aquillion]

Not sure if the idea of Jacob as Bad twin was what intent was :smallbiggrin:

Ishmael/Issac were half-brothers, but not twins.

Then there is Joseph, youngest of bunch of brothers & half-brothers.
In the Bible, the younger brother is almost always the good/successful one, regardless of how many brothers there are. My Hebrew Bible professor made a point of noting this; he said that it had an important symbolism to the ancient Israelites, who saw their own nation as a younger newcomer in a world filled with older and more powerful empires. It also places the emphasis on divine favor over earthly considerations -- if the older brother wins, what kind of a miracle is that?