The worst of all possible worlds

[Randel]

I went to Barnes and Noble the other day and read some of the Warhammer 40k: Dark Hearsay book (may have gotten the title wrong) and found all the entries on servitor cyborgs that are made from 'citezens who didn't measure up', those flying skull robots made from the real skulls of dedcated tech-priests, and a colony on one world that is right in the middle of a marsh filled with disease and ravenous monsters whose sole export is distilled water they extract from the bog.

And then I thought, considering that I have DnD 4th edition and I'm not that sure If I could really find a game of warhamer 40k, what sort of things could be borrowed from it and put into a DnD game to give the setting that unique feel?

Ideas:

A civilization of necromancers who have a prosperous economy, due to the fact that the poor, the crimminal, the insane, and physically impared are turned into mindless undead slaves. (I recall there is a metamagic feat in Libri Mortis that turns an enemy into an undead zombie if you kill them with a spell with this metamagic) The most common could be call The Bagmen, who are zombies covered in burlap wrappings to hide their hideous features and keep their rotting flesh off the work areas. PCs who infiltrate the area may have to destroy some of them and wear the wrappings to pass unnoticed.


A human matriarchy where the men are drafted to fight the constant tides of monsters that seek to destroy civilization. After most of the male pouluation is killed in the endless battles, then the women who are also trained heavily in the art of war start forming alliances with whatever sentiant races would ally with them. The result is an empire run predominantly by humans but has many half-human hybrids along with orcs, goblins, and other races. One fanatical organization of acane users has deduced that humans can in fact breed with most creatures, even if they need some magical help to get the process to work. As a result, new monsterous hybrids are seen including half-sharks for naval warfare, half-gargoyls, and more. Their ultimate goal is to locate a terrasque and get a sample of its genetic material to create 'the ultimate human hybrid'.


Modrons are a world-devouring race of self-replicating robots whos function is to extract all the mineral resources of the known universe to build the 'infinite' machine-world of Mechanus. They care little about squishy living things aside from maybe the iron in their blood. They have armies of worker and soldier constructs on their side... inevitables usually are equipped with chainsaw swords that extend from their arms. The modrons themselves are rather weak, geniuses at mechanical matters, insanely bent on order and hierarchy, and have no fear of death since if one is destroyed then their brothers will just construct a replacement. If they fight its because they have calculated that its more efficient to do so rather than to not fight. Their proffered fighting tactic is to have their ships chuck asteroids at major cities and the best defense in the event of modron invasion is to planeshift to a different world. If you do fight, then teleport onto their ships and attack from the inside. Mechanus is meant to calculate the ultimate answer to Life The Universe And Everything... unfortunatly its never given an adequate answer so the modrons keep adding upgrades until either Mechanus is smart enough to answer the question or the universe is small enough to find the answer to.

[hamishspence]

Replace Modrons with Clockwork Horrors from MM2 and D&D already has it. Dragon Magazine outlines them in more detail, though all Ecology articles should be taken as Possible, rather than Certain.

[bosssmiley]

Good stuff Randel. I especially like the Modrons one.

D&D dystopias? Other than Midnight's idea of "the BBEG has already won" and "Dark Sun's" Tippy wizards rule the world (badly) I got nothing really. The base D&D universe is pretty GRIMDARK in itself. :smalleek:

[hamishspence]

And Heroes of Horror has suggestions for How to Make Eberron, Greyhawk, and Faerun even GRIMDARKer. :smallbiggrin:

[Enlong]

And Heroes of Horror has suggestions for How to Make Eberron, Greyhawk, and Faerun even GRIMDARKer. :smallbiggrin:

Eberron is GRIMDARK? I always saw it as almost lighthearted, in a DND-meets-Girlgenius kind of way.

[hamishspence]

Sarlona under the Quori, the Dragon Below, the Order of the Silver Flame's shifter purge, you can find Grimdark elements if you look carefully.

[Tengu_temp]

The base D&D universe is pretty GRIMDARK in itself. :smalleek:

I fail to see anything grimdark about a world where Ed Greenwood's avatar romps around and bangs goddesses.

[hamishspence]

The Night Parade- very creepy. Some pretty grim Realms novels exist, and Thay is classic Evil Country.

[bosssmiley]

I fail to see anything grimdark about a world where Ed Greenwood's avatar romps around and bangs goddesses.

That was before the 4E design team stomped through his carefully crafted fantasy world in their GRIMDARK boots and "reading comprehension is hard" t-shirts torching Realmslore for the lulz. Mightily did they wield their "verisimilitude makes Biff feel small in the pants" editors' pens. Gods died, nations fell and the lands were redrawn in their passage.

You really should read the 4E FRCG sometimes, just for the image of despairing emo Elminster. You'd have to have a heart of stone not to laugh. :smallbiggrin:

[Artanis]

Getting back to ideas, you could have places that are inspired by the "specialized" worlds in the Imperium. For example:

*A civilization's cities are absolutely, ridiculously massive, so huge and densely-populated that they resemble arcologies, only bigger. But the lands in between these "hives" have been so thoroughly contaminated by the waste and refuse of the cities and the side-effects of the insane amount of magic required to support those populations that they are literally uninhabitable.

*A civilization is spread over a bunch of largeish islands (each one being say British Isles-size), most of which are relatively normal. But one or two of the islands have every square inch dedicated to industry of one sort or another. Shipyards, magitech facilities, massive-scale forges and foundries, you name it: if it builds something, there's five thousand of it there. These "Forge Islands" have long since exhausted any excuse for resources they once had, so a massive amount of raw materials (and food and whatnot for the shockingly small number of actual workers) has to be shipped in.

[Tengu_temp]

That was before the 4E design team stomped through his carefully crafted fantasy world in their GRIMDARK boots and "reading comprehension is hard" t-shirts torching Realmslore for the lulz. Mightily did they wield their "verisimilitude makes Biff feel small in the pants" editors' pens. Gods died, nations fell and the lands were redrawn in their passage.

You really should read the 4E FRCG sometimes, just for the image of despairing emo Elminster. You'd have to have a heart of stone not to laugh. :smallbiggrin:

Carefully crafted to contain as much author appeal as possible, you mean? And I haven't read any fluff for 4e apart from the generic one in Player's Handbook, which actually felt very heroic and adventury to me, but I guess it will not hurt to amuse myself with emo Elminster.

Just because bad things happen in a world doesn't mean it's grimdark. To be grimdark, only bad things should happen in a world, and the only people allowed to prosper are total bastards.

Hmm, this goes offtopic. My next post will contain an idea just like the OP wanted, honest.

[Cubey]

Let me try.

An underground complex ruled by an ancient, crazed computer. Everyone is happy because the Computer ruled that unhappiness is illegal, and like most crimes is punishable by execution. The laws are many, often obscure (and asking about details is punishable by death!), completely nonsensical and contradictory. Everyone receives a color-coded clearance status, and using anything of clearance higher than yours is punishable by death - even touching a high-ranked object or being in a wrongly coloured room is enough. 90% of the population is of lowest clearance and lives in utterly miserable conditions with dangerous workzones, but they are barely aware of it due to being constantly drugged. Increasing one's clearance level is extremely difficult, and usually includes selling off your friends and close companions as mutants, communists, traitors or members of a secret society. Which is convenient, because almost everyone is at least one of the above.

It's played for laughs.

[Nerd-o-rama]

And it is hilarious, mind you.

[Dr Bwaa]

Let me try.

*Paranoia*

It's played for laughs.

I have yet to play this with any of my real-life groups, because I fear for their lives (and our friendship) a bit too much :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: but in my online experience, Firbolg is right :smallbiggirin:

[Mr Pants]

heh, dnd being grimdark. its got paladins for someone's sake

Unhallowed Metropolis is what I would classify as grimdark. It's set in the actual Earth, in the year 2105 with an alternate history in which a plague of zombies (called animates) broke out all over the world back in 1905. There have been no advances in technology other than weaponry. So they have a death ray but not a digital camera. Then came the outbreak of vampirism as an STD. With the crazed scientists in this time there came thropes and anathemas to further terrorize the people of this world. The government had to create a new branch of the military, the Deathwatch, just to deal with the undead, and then hired undertakers (bounty hunters) to assist them. Oh yeah, you know that smog problem in London that they fixed in reality? They never fixed it, so everyone walks around with a gasmask or a damp cloth for the poor people. The aristocracy is horribly corrupt and lives with a lifespan of ~400, as opposed to everyone else with ~50. Even the "alignment" system is grimdark. As opposed to being CN or LG, a person has a corruption. It works like this: they're an *******, let's figure out what kind of ******* they are.

Plus it uses the old pounds sterling system, which in itself is pretty brutal.

[Waspinator]

I believe Midnight was mentioned:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midnight_(role-playing_game)

Basically, the dark god that the other gods banished to this word because he was the ultimate in evil Sauron-lookalikes has conquered the world and is sapping it dry of magic to power his ascent back to full godhood. The setup is heavily against any heroes/rebels, since he's already basically won the game.

[kamikasei]

Warhammer 40k: Dark Hearsay book (may have gotten the title wrong)

You did, but the concept of "Dark Hearsay" is hilarious. "I know this won't fly in Evil Court, but my cousin the Balrog tells me his minion Ugluk heard from the head of the Morannon guards that..."

[magellan]

One thing about Zombi workers: Let them work in restricted off the way areas. Once all the flesh has rotten away they can take work in areas where there are also living. Less plagues this way. Also they will break over time so you need replacements. While replacements are easily produced with unskilled labour, the producing guys won't like that so you propably will want to convince them not to live somewhere where work ends with death. In my campaign every new born got the citys coat of arms tatood on its cheek and who wore the tattoo was not allowed to leave the city.

[Kesnit]

An underground complex ruled by an ancient, crazed computer. Everyone is happy because the Computer ruled that unhappiness is illegal, and like most crimes is punishable by execution. The laws are many, often obscure (and asking about details is punishable by death!), completely nonsensical and contradictory. Everyone receives a color-coded clearance status, and using anything of clearance higher than yours is punishable by death - even touching a high-ranked object or being in a wrongly coloured room is enough. 90% of the population is of lowest clearance and lives in utterly miserable conditions with dangerous workzones, but they are barely aware of it due to being constantly drugged.

Sounds like someone's been reading Brave New World. :smallsmile:

[only1doug]

Sounds like someone's been reading Brave New World. :smallsmile:

Paranoia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Yellow_Clearance_Black_Box_Blues), The designers of Paranoia may have read Brave New World or just based in on any one of the many similar themes.

[Ashtar]

You want a bad D&D world... Where survival of the fittest is king and cities are deathtraps?

Look no further than Dark Sun, a murderous dragon, sorcerer kings ruling the cities, undead to the south, an empire of (thor-)kreen ready to invade from the west, a impassable sea of silt on the east, elves are real bastards, slavery is common, water and iron are rare. Magic kills the world and elementals give powers to clerics since there are even no gods to turn to...

My latest campaign there has my players throwing NPCs to the enemy to distract them long enough for them to escape, drugging a gift to an elven tribe to murder them and plotting mass extermination of the "good(?)" wizards who band together in "terrorist" organisations. And they are only level 4!

Now from warhammer 40k, you can take the Tyranids (and use kreen, especially post Psionatrix), take Raam (largest city) and have gangs (of noble / raiders / slaves) inside, use Dregoth (undead dragon king) as the evil rising cult, I mean, he just wants to destroy humanity and take over the world. Demons from the Warp? Well use Shadow halflings, creatures who live in the black, banished because they served Rajaat, the guy who planned and executed mass planetary wide genocide.

You want the players to play like Inquisitors' acolytes from 40k? Make them work for a templar in a city, uprooting elemental cults (silt / magma / sun clerics are crazy evil people)...

I could go on and on...

[Ganurath]

An idea I've been throwing around for myself:

Green Dragons were hunted to extinction by the elves, who inhabit the only forests on the continent. Golder and Brass dragons are technically extinct, although sightings of each have popped up from time to time throughout the continent (both are presumed hidden by shapeshifting.) The Last White and Black Dragons lair defensively in the Chaotic West, primarily within the respective domains of the Kobolds Steppes and Lizardfolk Swamps, guarding their own Dragon Orbs with nigh-irrational fanaticism. This is likely because they've seen what the dwarven empire and the human theocracies to St. Cuthbert and Hextor have done to Silver, Bronze, and Blue Dragons, respectively. The only truely free dragons left are the Last Copper, who reigns over the sovereign human city state in the Chaotic West where Kord has a strong following, resting in the Coliseum Coffers, and the Last Red, who exchanges the plunder of the southern orcs for "the might of draconic ancestry." That's right, the dragon that's in the best position in the world is a prostitute.

Of course, given how humanoids used to be enslaved by the dragons in the time when they had the monopoly on magic, before gods and wizards, it's not very surprising that they're nearly extinct now.

[Yakk]

A series of fortified Dwarven monasteries in the high mountains built out of stone, containing priests who follow a rigid system of beliefs. They destroy all plants and animals other than people who get near them. In the valleys below, Druids besiege them, attempting to take the last remnants of technological civilization from this part of the planet.

A city of tieflings, descendants of an ancient empire. At the heart, a temple that demands pure human sacrifice to keep the doors to hell ... shut. They can draw power from this temple -- amazing power -- but the more they draw, the more sacrifices are needed.

[Attilargh]

They destroy all plants and animals other than people who get near them.
Would this be achieved, by any chance, by channeling lava to the outside at regular intervals?

[Lochar]

A city of tieflings, descendants of an ancient empire. At the heart, a temple that demands pure human sacrifice to keep the doors to hell ... shut. They can draw power from this temple -- amazing power -- but the more they draw, the more sacrifices are needed.

In addendum to the above.

Their very existence draws at least some power from the temple, requiring them to make the sacrifice. However, they are the only ones able to make the sacrifice because they are the descendants. Should they all die, the gates are immediately flung open.

[Beleriphon]

Sarlona under the Quori, the Dragon Below, the Order of the Silver Flame's shifter purge, you can find Grimdark elements if you look carefully.

I don't know, those seem more like Indiana Jones Nazis. They are meant to be beat up, but ultimately you know they'll lose.

[Kami2awa]

Paranoia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Yellow_Clearance_Black_Box_Blues), The designers of Paranoia may have read Brave New World or just based in on any one of the many similar themes.

I'm pretty sure they list it as a source, among MANY other sources.

[chiasaur11]

I don't know, those seem more like Indiana Jones Nazis. They are meant to be beat up, but ultimately you know they'll lose.

Yup.

The existence of evil is not the same as GRIMDARK.

GRIMDARK requires evil that can (and probably will) win, and "good" which is only a tad less evil.

[Tola]

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=261519

It's a big thread, but I think it applies.

Cutting it down to size, the premise is thus: The Tarrasque was brought down, but not permanently Wished dead. A city was built around it to keep it down. Things...decay from there.

There's a LOT of good ideas in there for GRIMDARK as well as lighter forms of hopelessness.

[Mikeavelli]

The first GRIMDARK one with all of the infirm members of society reminds me of the Death Gate Cycle, specifically the events of Fire Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_Sea), where the world is so wholly inhospitable that society needs to reanimate the dead simply to survive. Throw in a zombie apocalypse composed of intelligent zombies with godlike magic at their command, and its gloriously GRIMDARK.

It would be if it weren't connected to the rest of the series anyways. They get better.

-------------------------------

Another dystopian fantasy society I've always loved is the central city, ruled over by a paranoid magocracy that demands absolute obedience from the populous. Literacy is strongly encouraged so people will be able to read and obey the many signs permanently enchanted with suggestions like "I will work hard in service of the city." Or "Grandfather loves me."

'Grandfather' is the leader\figurehead of the Magocracy, a kindly old man with a wizard beard and wizard hat, looks like Gandalf. His face appears in illusions all around the city, giving public service announcements and thanking the populace for accepting them as their leader.

The entire nobility is required to attend plays glorifying 'Grandfather,' reinforcing the superiority of the city, and sacrificing everything they have for the good of the city. Not only are these a powerful propaganda tool, they take advantage of high-level bardic abilities to magically sway the minds of the nobility to act on these suggestions. Noblemen who are unwilling to attend the plays, or show insufficient support for grandfathers policies, are taken for "re-education."

There is no overt police force, that's handled by the diviners guild. A group of mages whose job it is to scry patrol routes around the city, send out prying eyes that report trouble, and inform a small, but elite cadre of guardsmen of any problems in the city. Problems like thieves, violent individuals, beggers, etc. Problems which tend to disappear quickly, and quietly.