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View Full Version : Nigh Unkillable Character!!!



DragonBaneDM
2008-10-30, 06:41 PM
So, here my party's warlord, the biggest stats buff in the state, I believe, has figured out how to make a virtually unkillable character at level 12.

A Warforged Barbarian. Frenzied Bezerker Paragon.

Here's the bonuses that make him so ding dong good:

Living Construct: When you roll a death saving throw, you can take the better of your die roll or 10 as a result. You still die at your negative hit point total.

Deathless Frenzy: Trigger: You drop to 0 hp or fewer.
Effect: You are dying, but you don't fall unconscious until you fail a death saving throw.

Which he can't, unless I grab some monsters that make him take at least a -1 penalty. So, I have to get a defender-sized hp down twice and the whole time he's still swinging. Effectively giving this guy double his hp.

Good thing a warforged barbarian makes NO sense whatsoever!

Keld Denar
2008-10-30, 06:45 PM
Good thing a warforged barbarian makes NO sense whatsoever!

What's so wrong about a sentient machine that gets a couple of wires crossed in its "brain" and ands up going berzerk under the right conditions? This concept of "damaged machine going crazy" goes back to some of the earliest Sci-Fi literature.

In fact, I think the printer here in the office I work in has levels in Frenzied Berzerker Paragon as well. It routinely jams up, then furiously spits out garbled printed nonsense and refuses to stop all attempts to shut it down barring pulling the power cord from the wall. This is very very possible...

Nerd-o-rama
2008-10-30, 06:49 PM
I'd do you one better, a half-nymph Bard/Chaos Monk that can't be hit by anything anywhere near her level (even flat-footed or with a touch attack) and generally can't fail saving throws...unfortunately, it's not my build, and her character sheet gives me a 404 when I look for it.

It involves adding Charisma to almost everything, though. Multiple times, in the case of AC.

DragonBaneDM
2008-10-30, 06:51 PM
What's so wrong about a sentient machine that gets a couple of wires crossed in its "brain" and ands up going berzerk under the right conditions? This concept of "damaged machine going crazy" goes back to some of the earliest Sci-Fi literature.

GAH!!! Don't tell him that! This kid's a genius, and the only thing keeping me going up against this character is the fact that he has zero imagination! And he's gotta account on the Giant. So don't give him any ideas!

Hahaha!

7th lvl scrub
2008-10-30, 06:53 PM
What's so wrong about a sentient machine that gets a couple of wires crossed in its "brain" and ands up going berzerk under the right conditions? This concept of "damaged machine going crazy" goes back to some of the earliest Sci-Fi literature.

Thanks for the tip, now I have something that will make it work.


GAH!!! Don't tell him that! This kid's a genius, and the only thing keeping me going up against this character is the fact that he has zero imagination! And he's gotta account on the Giant. So don't give him any ideas!

Hahaha!

...Owned.
:smalltongue:

DragonBaneDM
2008-10-30, 06:57 PM
Thanks for the tip, now I have something that will make it work.



...Owned.
:smalltongue:

Yeah, but I found a way to kill you. There's monsters out there that penalize saving throws. That's gotta apply to death saving throws too, right?

Aahz
2008-10-30, 07:18 PM
Are you talking about 4e? That Living Construct ability doesn't make any sense in 4th edition where a 10 is success on a saving throw, so I assume not. How do death saving throws work in 3e?

BRC
2008-10-30, 07:20 PM
Yeah, but I found a way to kill you. There's monsters out there that penalize saving throws. That's gotta apply to death saving throws too, right?
This situation is what greater teleport traps that lead to orbit are for.

Inyssius Tor
2008-10-30, 07:24 PM
Since someone forgot to append a tag,

THIS IS 4E.

And Aahz: yes, it does make sense. That's kind of the whole point. That's what it's for. You'll never die, but you'll never roll a 20 and regain consciousness unless someone comes over and heals you.

BRC
2008-10-30, 07:25 PM
Since someone forgot to append a tag,

THIS IS 4E.

And Aahz: yes, it does make sense. That's kind of the whole point. That's what it's for. You'll never die, but you'll never roll a 20 and regain consciousness unless someone comes over and heals you.
In that case, Break out the Total Perspective Vortex and cause the warforged to have an existential crisis.

7th lvl scrub
2008-10-30, 07:31 PM
And Aahz: yes, it does make sense. That's kind of the whole point. That's what it's for. You'll never die, but you'll never roll a 20 and regain consciousness unless someone comes over and heals you.

Actually, according to the MM, its, "When you roll a death save, you can take the better of your die roll or 10 as the result. You still die at your negative
hit point total."

So, yes, you can roll a 20 and regain consciousness.

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-30, 09:44 PM
Even better at higher levels:

Minotaur Barbarian / Frenzied Berzerker / Demigod level 25

Weapon: Vicious Execution Axe +5
Neck Slot: Life Charm (Adventurer's Vault)

Life Charm: You never fail death saving throws.

Then you get Oversized and all that other good stuff :smallcool:
Also, if you finally do die, you get one last attack :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: If you're thinking of a way to kill this PC, I'd like to introduce you to a devious encounter involving Drow Sleep Poison, Driders, Coup-de-Graces and Anvils

serok42
2008-10-31, 06:15 AM
Good thing a warforged barbarian makes NO sense whatsoever!

I am going to play a Warforged barbarian where he was built by a gnome anthropologist to study a distant barbarian tribe. The barbarians were wary of this metal monstrosity but eventually accepted him and taught him their ways.

:smallbiggrin:

Tsotha-lanti
2008-10-31, 09:58 AM
Good thing a warforged barbarian makes NO sense whatsoever!

Yes, it's not like berserk golem/berserk robot is a trope.

Oh, wait...

Nice synergy, though. "Double your hit points, free of charge!"

Aahz
2008-10-31, 04:51 PM
And Aahz: yes, it does make sense. That's kind of the whole point. That's what it's for. You'll never die, but you'll never roll a 20 and regain consciousness unless someone comes over and heals you.

Wow, that's pretty crazy. Then as far as I can tell, the OP is right, you won't fall unconscious and you can't fail your death saving throw, meaning you can keep functioning normally until you hit your negative HP. Or can someone correct us?

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-31, 11:44 PM
I believe you die at your negative bloodied value, which means only a 50% increase in hp if I'm right. (which, for the sake of balance, I hope I am)

Nevermind. I know you die at negative bloodied. The relevant passage is on page 295 of the PHB, in the beige box on the left under the heading "Death"

When you take damage that reduces your current hitpoints to your bloodied value expressed as a negative number, your character dies.

One downside of this, is that he continues to aggro the enemies, where as enemies might ignore a halfling rogue who is bleeding out in favour of a more iminent threat, the barbarian still works as normal, and as such continues to attract fire.

Alteran
2008-11-01, 12:01 AM
I agree with the above post. One of the main advantages (and there are few) of being unconscious is that you are not seen as a threat by most unintelligent monsters. Sure, the lich wizard may keep blasting the fallen wizard after he finally escapes legion's hold, but your average badguy is not going to think of pounding on an unconscious foe while there are still other people actually fighting. I can see barbarians especially being big targets, so this is a problem. And if you do die, then bam, you're gone. Raise dead, or new character. At least with the current system there's a point where you have to keep trying to get healed. If managing get up after reaching 0 HP isn't a concern, you may die much more easily.

Also, if the DM finds this broken beyond reasonable solutions, he can just say no. Don't forget that. :smallwink: The point of the game isn't for players to outsmart the DM.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-11-01, 12:04 AM
Also, if the DM finds this broken beyond reasonable solutions, he can just say no. Don't forget that. :smallwink: The point of the game isn't for players to outsmart the DM.That's right, the point is to outsmart WoTC. :smallbiggrin:

Gralamin
2008-11-01, 12:20 AM
Okay he's tough, but like most barbarian's, he can be defeated by adequate tactics. Remember, Opponents are likely in an area they know better then the players. Difficult terrain, elevation differences, and many other things can make it a difficult encounter and at the same time fun. If the barbarian seems to be a win switch, then adjust tactics to make it challenging to him without making it too challenging for the rest of the players, and always reward players for out smarting you - it encourages you to become better, and gives them a reason to try to outsmart you again.

Learnedguy
2008-11-01, 02:33 AM
Sounds kinda cool. And not that horribly unbalanced, as there's a serious risk for permanent death if you start going past your limit like that (or maybe not. Heck, I'd allow this at least once anyway because the thought of a raging machine continuing to fight while it's getting trashed worse and worse is just cool). I'd probably adjust the encounters though.

icefractal
2008-11-01, 03:35 AM
Kind of balances out anyway, as Barbarians tend to lose HP very fast (melee-oriented class + poor AC = pain).

Behold_the_Void
2008-11-01, 04:10 AM
It's not unkillable so much as it has more lasting power, which is nice. However, the added risk of coming closer to death can mitigate that. I do like the execution though, in fights it means you can stay up another round before the Cleric or Warlord activate a healing power on you, meaning you have a whole extra action to dish out a lot of damage.

Inyssius Tor
2008-11-01, 01:36 PM
So, I have to get a defender-sized hp down twice and the whole time he's still swinging. Effectively giving this guy double his hp.

Not quite. You should have looked at the final compilation, which acts as errata to the individual articles.

"You still die at the normal negative hit point total."

Which is negative bloodied.

Doomsy
2008-11-01, 01:54 PM
I agree with the above post. One of the main advantages (and there are few) of being unconscious is that you are not seen as a threat by most unintelligent monsters. Sure, the lich wizard may keep blasting the fallen wizard after he finally escapes legion's hold, but your average badguy is not going to think of pounding on an unconscious foe while there are still other people actually fighting. I can see barbarians especially being big targets, so this is a problem. And if you do die, then bam, you're gone. Raise dead, or new character. At least with the current system there's a point where you have to keep trying to get healed. If managing get up after reaching 0 HP isn't a concern, you may die much more easily.

Also, if the DM finds this broken beyond reasonable solutions, he can just say no. Don't forget that. :smallwink: The point of the game isn't for players to outsmart the DM.

Small correction here. A lot of non-intelligent monsters are essentially animals. They are more likely to eat you if you are unconscious or at least try to run away with the most portable 'meal' they can latch on to in the face of spirited resistance. Animals fight in self defense or because they are hungry and thus tend to be a bit more sensible in some ways than intelligent enemies. Technically a hunting animal or a pack would be most likely to pick off the smallest or weakest looking party animal and either scare off the rest of the herd (party) or just drag off the downed one after an ambush while attempting to outrun pursuit.
Sucks to be a gnome or halfling in that case. You're pretty much a snack and not even encumbering to things big enough to be eating you.

Intelligent monsters are more likely to ignore the downed and wounded even if they have to run, unless they have a guy specifically on 'finishing off' detail - unlikely in mid-combat, but possible. In which case your DM is a real piece of work. Or the BBEG is.