Starting Warhammer 40k...Can I have help with Necron tactics?

[_Puppetmaster_]

Hi, I was recently inroduced to 40k by a friend who also just started. I have limited funds, and I need to pick an army to finance so that I can play.

Does anybody have suggestions on what I should pick?

Thanks in advance.:smallsmile:

EDIT: I now need to decide between Chaos Space Marines or Necrons.

Thanks in advance again.

I've chosen the Necrons...

Does anybody have any ideas on good tactics?

Thanks.

[BRC]

Well, Let's do a survey.
Which of the following statements could you most imagine yourself saying
1) An Acceptable Loss
2) Ten to One? I like those odds
3) You fell into my trap
4) WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG HHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
5) Blood For the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
6) Nice troops, are they flammable?
7)...
8) Nice Troops, are they edible?
9) Nice tro- err, Charred Remains

Answers
1) Imperial Guard
2) SPACE MARHEEENS
3) Eldar
4) Orkz
5) Chaos
6) Sisters of Battle
7) Necrons
8) Tyranids
9) Tau

[_Puppetmaster_]

I can imagine myself saying:

1) An Acceptable Loss,
3) You fell into my trap,
7)...,
and
9) Nice tro- err, Charred Remains

[BRC]

I can imagine myself saying:

1) An Acceptable Loss,
3) You fell into my trap,
7)...,
and
9) Nice tro- err, Charred Remains
Then you may like Imperial Guard, Eldar, Necrons or Tau.

It should be noted that I don't play the game, I just like the setting.

[_Puppetmaster_]

I don't really like the Imperial Guard's fluff or stats...
So no Imperial Guard...

I don't like horde-type armies...
So no Tyranids...

I think I might go with Necrons, because I want something with close-combat capabilities and I can't stand Farsight.

[Bryn]

It really depends on what sort of game you want to play. The armies are more or less balanced in general play, though some of them, such as the Dark Eldar, have problems.

What do you want, then?

Shooty or choppy? Mixture?
Human? Alien?
On a scale of pretty bad to horribly evil, where do you want to fall?
Fast-moving or relatively slow?
Is cost an issue?
What do most people you know play?
Concerned about power on the tabletop?
How much are you concerned about Forge World models?
Forgiving of mistakes, or extremely challenging to play well?
Lots of numbers, or few, individually powerful units?
Vehicles - do you like them?
Any particular army look interesting to you, based on fluff or models? (This is the most important thing, to have an army you like to play)
Do you want a particularly unique army?

Those are in precisely no order, mind you. Just what came into my head as I wrote the list :smallamused:

Edit: The blasted simu-ninja strikes again!

[Cristo Meyers]

Might be a bit easier if we knew what kind of army you want to play.

Good all-round, but limited numbers? Space Marines
Long range warfare? Tau
Highly specialized troops? Eldar
Lots and lots of grunts, the green tide? Orks
Disposable grunts with really big tanks? Imperial Guard

Then there's Chaos Space Marines, Daemonhunters, Witchhunters, Dark Eldar, Necron, Tyranids...

[Kjata]

Umm i was about to comment then i realized i havent played in, oh say 18 months. Isn't 5th edition out now?

Suddenly i realize why people complained about DnD 4ed. I don't have a clue whats what anymore!

Anywat, not sure if this is still applicable, but IG, GK and Sisters aren't a good place to start. Maybe Marines, Tau, or Necrons, but idk really.

[_Puppetmaster_]

It really depends on what sort of game you want to play. The armies are more or less balanced in general play, though some of them, such as the Dark Eldar, have problems.

What do you want, then?

Shooty or choppy? Mixture?
Human? Alien?
On a scale of pretty bad to horribly evil, where do you want to fall?
Fast-moving or relatively slow?
Is cost an issue?
What do most people you know play?
Concerned about power on the tabletop?
How much are you concerned about Forge World models?
Forgiving of mistakes, or extremely challenging to play well?
Lots of numbers, or few, individually powerful units?
Vehicles - do you like them?
Any particular army look interesting to you, based on fluff or models? (This is the most important thing, to have an army you like to play)
Do you want a particularly unique army?

Those are in precisely no order, mind you. Just what came into my head as I wrote the list :smallamused:

Here are my answers:


Shooty or choppy? Mixture? Mixture
Human? Alien? Alien
On a scale of pretty bad to horribly evil, where do you want to fall? Probably towards the 'Horribly Evil'
Fast-moving or relatively slow? Fast-Moving
Is cost an issue? Yes
What do most people you know play? Tau and Space Marines
Concerned about power on the tabletop? Yes
How much are you concerned about Forge World models? Not interested
Forgiving of mistakes, or extremely challenging to play well? The first one
Lots of numbers, or few, individually powerful units? In the middle
Vehicles - do you like them? Yes
Any particular army look interesting to you, based on fluff or models? (This is the most important thing, to have an army you like to play) Necron, Tau, and Tyranids
Do you want a particularly unique army? Yes

[onasuma]

You seem to have just described eldar in a nutshell, bar your look preferences, yet many of them look rather similar armour wise to tau (which you do like) and you can easily find 1 or 2 types of unit that looks appeal to you from codex: eldar and theme your force around just them.

[Selrahc]

* Shooty or choppy? Mixture? Mixture
* Human? Alien? Alien
* On a scale of pretty bad to horribly evil, where do you want to fall? Probably towards the 'Horribly Evil'
* Fast-moving or relatively slow? Fast-Moving
* Is cost an issue? Yes
* What do most people you know play? Tau and Space Marines
* Concerned about power on the tabletop? Yes
* How much are you concerned about Forge World models? Not interested
* Forgiving of mistakes, or extremely challenging to play well? The first one
* Lots of numbers, or few, individually powerful units? In the middle
* Vehicles - do you like them? Yes
* Any particular army look interesting to you, based on fluff or models? (This is the most important thing, to have an army you like to play) Necron, Tau, and Tyranids
* Do you want a particularly unique army? Yes

Chaos demons could be pretty good for you. Get a Tzeentch/Slaanesh force for a mixture of close combat and shooting, with high speed forces.
It would certainly be an alien, unique, horribly evil force. The new box sets make them relatively cheapish.

The only thing it conclusively fails on is the vehicle thing. The army tends towards the tyranid model of giant monsters rather than vehicles.

[Wraith]

I'd say that's more of a Chaos Marines answer, actually. They would tick each of those answers almost perfectly:

* Mixture of Shooty and Choppy (Raptors and Possessed, joined by Obliterators and Havocs)
* Alien (Daemon Prince Leader/Daemonic Allies if you feel fancy)
* 'Horribly Evil' (Well, yeah... Evil Incarnate)
* Fast-Moving (Raptors, Bikers, Deep Striking Terminators)
* Cost is an Issue. (Chaos forces are quite points-expensive, so a decent army will probably be physically smaller than other races)
* Most people play Tau and Space Marines (You'll be their arch-nemesis with Chaos)
* Table top power (Chaos Marines are, if nothing else, more brutal than their Loyalist counterparts)
* Forge World models? (There's only one or two available for Chaos Marines, all of which are Daemon Princes or Apocalypse-scale stuff)
* Forgiving of mistakes? (Very tough, have equipment for all occasions, large variety of troops to choose from)
* Reasonable number of vehicles (Everything from Bikes to Tanks, to large Mechanical Spider-Things)
* Vehicles? (See above - and they spiky!)
* Fluff (....Alright, that's 1 out of 13 I can't answer...)
* Unique (You can mix Chaos Marines with Loyalist [Fallen] Marines, Daemons, Imperial Guard, Witch Hunters [Again, Fallen or just for the models]... If you can imagine it, you can probably fit it in somewhere)

And just so you know, I despise playing against my friend's Chaos army, so I hope you appreciate what it means for me to advocate another Chaos Disciple take up arms against us... :smallwink::smallbiggrin:

[_Puppetmaster_]

I'd say that's more of a Chaos Marines answer, actually. They would tick each of those answers almost perfectly:

* Mixture of Shooty and Choppy (Raptors and Possessed, joined by Obliterators and Havocs)
* Alien (Daemon Prince Leader/Daemonic Allies if you feel fancy)
* 'Horribly Evil' (Well, yeah... Evil Incarnate)
* Fast-Moving (Raptors, Bikers, Deep Striking Terminators)
* Cost is an Issue. (Chaos forces are quite points-expensive, so a decent army will probably be physically smaller than other races)
* Most people play Tau and Space Marines (You'll be their arch-nemesis with Chaos)
* Table top power (Chaos Marines are, if nothing else, more brutal than their Loyalist counterparts)
* Forge World models? (There's only one or two available for Chaos Marines, all of which are Daemon Princes or Apocalypse-scale stuff)
* Forgiving of mistakes? (Very tough, have equipment for all occasions, large variety of troops to choose from)
* Reasonable number of vehicles (Everything from Bikes to Tanks, to large Mechanical Spider-Things)
* Vehicles? (See above - and they spiky!)
* Fluff (....Alright, that's 1 out of 13 I can't answer...)
* Unique (You can mix Chaos Marines with Loyalist [Fallen] Marines, Daemons, Imperial Guard, Witch Hunters [Again, Fallen or just for the models]... If you can imagine it, you can probably fit it in somewhere)

And just so you know, I despise playing against my friend's Chaos army, so I hope you appreciate what it means for me to advocate another Chaos Disciple take up arms against us... :smallwink::smallbiggrin:

Ooh... These look fun...

especially this guy (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1020028&prodId=prod1090581&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k)

Although they are very expensive... I'd have to settle for a small army...

[Cristo Meyers]

You can save a bit of money by shopping sites like Bartertown.com for used minis.

[_Puppetmaster_]

I've narrowed down my choices that I want to pick to either Chaos Space Marines or Necrons.

[Selrahc]

Chaos is more fun. Necron armies are a bit boring really, since you can't personalize your units, and you've got less units to pick from.

[Wraith]

Don't forget that even if you save money when buying the actual models, you will still have to spend money on glue and paint to make them resemble an army and not just a pile of loose plastic :smallsmile:

If money really is a factor after that, you're *probably* better off with Necrons. While any army can look good with a limited pallet, Necrons look especially effective and are therefore also good for people who have never picked up a brush before.

While I personally prefer them, the Chaos models tend to be spikier and often require more effort to make them look 'average'. If you're not too sure of your abilities, I would suggest you take the Necrons if only while you practice.

Similarly, for a new Player it might even be better not to have lots of options. I don't know your level of understanding, so I apologise if I am telling you stuff that you already know, but it's usually a good idea to play a simple game before you throw in a pile of optional stuff that you don't know how to use.

Again, Necrons would be preferable, unless you're a "learn to run before I learn to walk" kind of person :smallbiggrin:

[WychWeird]

I'd say Necrons, not sure how 5th Ed is affecting them but they used to be expensive, point-wise, so you didn't need so many models to make an army and they are relatively easy to paint.

As there are few unit choices it makes it easier to select a force so it allows you to focus on tactics although you may find yourself suffering as people are quite aware of what they can and can't do - it does allow you to observe, learn and improve though (and allow you to consider another force if you desire.)

[onasuma]

Yes, I am very much biased, but I dont think necrons are a good army to start with. They arent exactly forgiving when you lose X models and all the rest of yours dissappear into the ether. There are very limited options, and everything is basically the same with a different gun or stabby stick.

Chaos on the other hand are forgiving, you can fight to the last man without (much) in the way of penalties, there are lots of nice models to choose from, you can choose the way your army plays alot more (or pick a god and follow that style). Also the defiler. Look at it. Look at it more. You know chaos is the way forward.

[First Speaker]

Remember, the old unstoppable Necron tactic of '1 Necron Lord, thousands of Necron warriors in tight formation around him' is not so good now that glancing hits have been nerfed - nonetheless, it's still fairly effective.

I, however, would say that Chaos is a lot more interesting and diverse to play.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Remember, the old unstoppable Necron tactic of '1 Necron Lord, thousands of Necron warriors in tight formation around him' is not so good now that glancing hits have been nerfed - nonetheless, it's still fairly effective.

I, however, would say that Chaos is a lot more interesting and diverse to play.

What's wrong with demolisher round, S 10 hits radius on that tight formation?

What, explosions don't work against Necrons?

[onasuma]

It does. They can just still stand back up afterwards in that formation

[Selrahc]

Also the defiler. Look at it. Look at it more. You know chaos is the way forward.

Soulgrinder is cooler.

[Dr. Bath]

Double the toughness or ordinance used to stop necrons getting back up, even with the orb thingy, as far as I recall. But I don't know about now.

[Selrahc]

Double the toughness or ordinance used to stop necrons getting back up, even with the orb thingy, as far as I recall. But I don't know about now.

It used to be double the toughness or if it ignored saves, with the orb meaning you always got a chance to get back up. (It still is that)

[SolkaTruesilver]

the Orb is equipment, right?

So, the Necron Lord still have a chance of dying from the blast..

[_Puppetmaster_]

:smallconfused:

I don't have a rulebook or codex yet... What are you guys talking about?

[Cristo Meyers]

Necrons have a special ability that lets them get back up after being killed (so not only do they look like the Terminator, but act like it too). The Orb is a piece of special equipment you can give your leader that allows them to keep this ability when they would normally lose it (like, say, getting completely flattened by artillery fire).

[_Puppetmaster_]

So... if I hid a necron lord behind lots of cover... I could make a near invunerable army?

[Cristo Meyers]

I think the Orb's ability has a limited range.

[SolkaTruesilver]

So... if I hid a necron lord behind lots of cover... I could make a near invunerable army?

My answer to this would be concentrated Basilisk fire. Indirect Fire FTW :smallbiggrin:

[_Puppetmaster_]

@^::smallamused:

...What if the enemy is not imperial guard?

[Tren]

Well, Let's do a survey.
Which of the following statements could you most imagine yourself saying
3) You fell into my trap


Hey, I take exception to that! That makes us Eldar sound so sneaky and devious, I think "I've got you right where I want you" would be a much more accurate representation of an eldar army. :smallwink:

[Malek]

So... if I hid a necron lord behind lots of cover... I could make a near invunerable army?
Close but not quite - the "We'll be back..." save (as it is called) has it's limitations - first of all to stand up the model must be in close range of a unit containing same type of model (so a Necron Warrior must be near another alive-and-kicking Necron Warrior). Aside from that once a unit fails "We'll be back.." save it's gone for good (Monolith teleportation gives one more chance if used same turn).

[Cristo Meyers]

@^::smallamused:

...What if the enemy is not imperial guard?

Deep Striking Terminators, massed Ranger Fire, suicidal Khorne Beserkers...

[Oslecamo]

Deep Striking Terminators, massed Ranger Fire, suicidal Khorne Beserkers...

Talk to the monolith. Besides, you really don't want to get in close combat with the necron lord, specially if said lord has a warschyte. As for rangers, well, that's for what scarabs are for, tying up pesky super ranged units.

The main advantage of necrons are:
1-Budget army. You need few miniatures to make them work, and easy to paint.
2-Really powerfull with little optimization. You don't have to bother with upgrades or special weapons for your troops. Roles are quite clear, and they have few unit variety, so it's really hard to go wrong.
3-Again, quite strong army. Your troops are so tough that they make the space marines look like chinese glass, and all your weapons either hit hard or hit HARD.
4-Can make some crazy strategies, with all the teleportation powers and special wachy equipment available for the necron lord.
5-The nightbringer. Even demon lords will run away from him screaming like little girls. He can take down tanks from range and pretty much anything below emperator class titans in close combat. And an emperor class titan probably won't fit in the table anyway.
6-Great fluff. Heck, the necrons kicked the asses of the ones who created all other races. And now they're back to do some more pwning.

[_Puppetmaster_]

Oh yeah! I forgot to tell you...

I have only a couple colors of paints:

Ice Blue
Space Wolves Gray
Ultramarines Blue
Skull White
Mithril Silver


...I think that's it...

[Selrahc]

Talk to the monolith. Besides, you really don't want to get in close combat with the necron lord, specially if said lord has a warschyte

Yes you do. Necron lord has 3 attacks at WS 4 and initiative 4. One squad of Khorne Berserkers who get the charge will slaughter him before he gets a single attack. A good close combat lord will wipe the floor with him with attacks to spare.

Necron lords are decent in combat. Against non specialist squads it can perform well. Against the extremely good specialist melee Chaos can bring to bear, the Necron lord is not good enough.



5-The nightbringer. Even demon lords will run away from him screaming like little girls. He can take down tanks from range and pretty much anything below emperator class titans in close combat. And an emperor class titan probably won't fit in the table anyway.

Tell that to the Nighteater, my specialist C'Tan killing Daemon prince from the previous Chaos codex. :smallbiggrin:

(Dreadaxe, Mutation, Speed, Furious Charge, Mark of Khorne, Master Crafted Axe of Khorne, Spiky Bits, Fury of Khorne) Which gives 6 attacks plus D3 on the charge, with extra attacks on any roll of 6, which automatically wound on a 4+, striking before the Nightbringer, with two rerolls to hit. It worked quite nicely.

I miss the last Chaos codex :smallfrown:

[chiasaur11]

@^::smallamused:

...What if the enemy is not imperial guard?

Then they picked their army on a basis besides which army has CIAPHAS CAIN and therefore can be ignored in serious discussions.

[_Puppetmaster_]

Then they picked their army on a basis besides which army has CIAPHAS CAIN and therefore can be ignored in serious discussions.

Who is this CIAPHAS CAIN, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM I've heared so much about?:smallconfused:

[chiasaur11]

Who is this CIAPHAS CAIN, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM I've heared so much about?:smallconfused:

Basically, it's Flashman in GRIMDARK SPACE.

Apparently, the novels are a hoot. Been trying to get my mits on some to confirm.

[Zorg]

I'm reading them at the moment and they are indeed awesome.

Necrons are what I'd recomend - for paints you'd only need to pick up black and gunmetal, and plain sand can be used for a thematic base. Also they're easy to assemble and put a starting force together.

However many of their specialist units are metal so a bit pricey, while most of a chaos force is plastic, but is a lot more complicated and fiddly put together and paint.

[_Puppetmaster_]

My entire geeky family think I should choose the Necrons, and I think the Necrons are cool... So I'm going with the Necrons.

[Archangel Yuki]

My entire geeky family think I should choose the Necrons, and I think the Necrons are cool... So I'm going with the Necrons.

Woot! Another Necro player. I have been playing Necrons for some time, but still have some problems.
Generally, I only have problems with Khorn armies.
Grab a monolith when you can, and try to get more then the minimum squads of warriors so you can hold a squad in reserve to be moved through the portal when you deepstrike that bad boy. Move that squad out and shoot up their rears. :smallcool:

Scarabs with disruption talons are your friends, as on a charge and decent amount of these little buggers will generally guarentuee the death of vehicles.
Tomb Spyders are always gravely underestimated. In close combat, these things can wreak complete havok. ignoring armor, multipule attacks, high strengh and toughness. Everything you could want.

One thing you have to beware though is that your not fearless. Most your units, with negitivies, can and will run- including your Necron Lord. Keep that in mind.

Also, on that Res Orb: its a 6" range. It allows WBB rolls on ANY sort of death. Without it, and Armor Ignoring/ Str > Toughnessx2 attacks will instaintly remove the model. Remember, the Lord is affected by his own Res Orb! =)