Gut's party vs. Greed's party

[Lord of Rapture]

Gut's Team:


Guts
Serpico
Farnese
Isidiro
Puck
Schierze


Greed's Team


Greed
Edward Elric
Ran Fan
Hu
The two chimeras


The battle takes place in a village with a regiment of Kushan soldiers stationed there. There are scattered caches of weapons lying around, along with barrels of water and other supplies. Assume there is a spirit residing in the village or somewhere nearby. Both parties know of the other's presence and know their way around the village. The fight is only to incapacity, not to the death, EDIT: but killing is allowed.

Who wins?

[LurkerInPlayground]

Guts and company.

Demons and demon-like creatures are par-for-the course for them.

Guts is used to fighting against extremely resilient creatures that outnumber him and are dozens of times his size, strength and mass each. In fact, he's trained for the express purpose of fighting these kinds of opponents.

In one case he breaks off the horn of one demon to fend off the others, completely unarmored and without a decent weapon. Still manages to survive somehow.

[Dragonus45]

You forget the power of alchemy, and greed is the ultimate shield. The chimeras have little fight to put up other than fodder against guts himself but they can still be effective against the rest of guts party. Ran Fan, Edward and Greed are all powerful fighters, and Edward's powerful circle less alchemy keeps gut's party from taking off with a fast win. Greed can tank Guts no matter how ax crazy he goes with the ability to heal and a fresh Philosophers stone with no deaths since his creation. I think its a more even fight than you give Ed's party credit for. That said i think that things would tip to guts favor if he managed to land a good blow on Ed, stopping the alchemical goodness. But where is Alphonse at, or is this just the people working for greed specifically?

[EvilElitest]

how do you kill greed? I mean, the rest of it varies, but greed can't get hurt
from
EE

[Flickerdart]

how do you kill greed? I mean, the rest of it varies, but greed can't get hurt
from
EE
Ten thousand commoners and a quarterstaff.

[EvilElitest]

Ten thousand commoners and a quarterstaff.

ah, the solution to every problem
from
EE

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

I say that Ed wins by himself. At this point he would not be knowing what the truth is about the Gate (darn Movie ruined it for me!).

Guts: What's up shorty?
Ed: *censored*
Guts: Why did you rip my own leg off, you little...<croak>

We know that Ed can take out Chimeras. I think that the only one that would give him trouble is Marta because she is a lot faster than the others. Ed found Greed's weakness, and took him out . I don't know much about Guts' party, but if they are anything like Guts, then they don't stand a chance. Huge weapons mean nothing when it comes to manipulating the laws of physics with a slap of the hands.

[puppyavenger]

I say that Ed wins by himself. At this point he would not be knowing what the truth is about the Gate (darn Movie ruined it for me!).

Guts: What's up shorty?
Ed: *censored*
Guts: Why did you rip my own leg off, you little...<croak>

We know that Ed can take out Chimeras. I think that the only one that would give him trouble is Marta because she is a lot faster than the others. Ed found Greed's weakness, and took him out . I don't know much about Guts' party, but if they are anything like Guts, then they don't stand a chance. Huge weapons mean nothing when it comes to manipulating the laws of physics with a slap of the hands.

turn weapons into liquid nitrogen!

[Innis Cabal]

how do you kill greed? I mean, the rest of it varies, but greed can't get hurt
from
EE

Though you know. He dies when dipped in some strange fluid by father.

[nothingclever]

Edward sucks very often in both the manga and anime so I don't see him being all that great in this fight. He tries to fight people in melee combat plenty of times in each version and if he does this against Guts he'll definitely die. Guts can swing his huge sword faster than skilled swordsmen can swing their light ones without his special armor. Edward's transmuted weapons won't be able to endure his attacks so he can't parry and wait for some kind of opportunity like he usually does. Guts also has his berserker armor which makes his speed/strength/durability/etc vastly greater than what he already has. He is already superhuman in all those areas without his armor whether the manga specifically says so or not because he performs feats regular people simply can't do like fighting superhuman demons. Guts' armor also fully protects his body so you can't just say someone will aim for the chinks in it. If anyone from Edward's party tries to fight Guts in close combat they will definitely lose except for Greed which is a tie basically. It really isn't even debatable whether any of them could win against him. He cuts through thick stone pillars like butter without his armor when a master swordsman(Serpico) uses them to stop him his blade from reaching maximum speed. Even with the pillars slowing him a bit, emphasis on a bit, Serpico is the one tired and near death.

Serpico is not as overpowering as Guts but he has an awesome anti-alchemy like abilities since his sword and cloak have the power of wind which means he is superhumanly agile, can practically fly through the air for brief moments, make projectiles aimed at him change trajectory and his sword can dismember people without even touching them as long as it gets near them. He is also very creative, a strategist and a master swordsman so his powers aren't the only thing keeping him alive they just make him even more awesome. He wins against anyone on Edward's team in close quarters combat except Greed which is a tie since he doesn't need to touch them. He can fight like garbage on purpose missing every time and still decapitate people and they won't know this until they see it happen and they might not be able to deduce why people suddenly end up dead without being touched. I say his powers are pretty much anti-alchemy since they stop a lot of its advantages. Edward making a gatling gun out of the ground to blow him to bits is unlikely to work since even if we say the bullets are of a high enough caliber to not be set off course by Serpico's wind defense he could still avoid them with speed and superhuman jumping and close the distance between Edward. Edward's attempts to imprison him in rock, smash him with some giant animated stone monster, or impale him on spikes from the ground can be likewise avoided. If Edward used alchemy like Scar's which lets him break down whatever he touches Serpico could avoid ever letting himself or his weapon come into contact with Edward while still being able to kill him. Guts is also super fast/skilled/strong so he could avoid being caught in big area affecting alchemy attacks although he wouldn't be as graceful doing it. Characters in Edward's world can avoid them so Guts should be able to as well even if he isn't as agile as Serpico. Guts' armor and huge sword should be able to block giant gun bullets too if Edward tries that on him and he gets hit.

The witch in Guts' party, Schierke, can summon spirits that are strong enough to kill everyone in Edward's party back to back. She can flood and burn towns down to nothing with her powers from a great distance like a tall building while controlling spirits attacking people below. She needs to concentrate while summoning spirits so she can't move or defend herself while using them. She has no super training/strength/speed/durability/whatever beyond what the average little girl has so she could be beaten by anyone without protection. She also has an easier time summoning spirits during times when elements are already present in great amounts like a giant fire already burning or when rain is falling but it doesn't mean she can't summon things without these convenient circumstances. She could possibly summon something that can circumvent Greed's diamond durability. I don't know what though and I'm not going to really bother trying to guess at it. She might be able to keep Greed busy by suspending him in the air with a tornado which is probably very likely even though I have yet to see her use wind. If Greed can drown/suffocate fire and water summons could beat him but I don't know if he has that weakness.

Isidro sucks at fighting normally up close and his magic weapon sucks. He is very good at throwing things though and has bombs he uses so he could distract people or get a lucky shot with a thrown dagger or something. Maybe he could throw his fire weapon which would blast someone on contact because he sucks with it up close and do some good damage.

Farnese also sucks. She does have a ring that controls vine spirits that can entangle people which means she could temporarily trap the normal people. Greed could probably bust out of them fast since he's superhuman. Her weapon is a silver dagger that is only better than a regular dagger when fighting demons. She is learning magic from Schierke but she can't do anything useful yet beyond astral projection but she could project her spirit to spy on Edward's party invisibly and so can the witch but their bodies would be vulnerable.

Puck is only practically useful for his healing faerie dust which is very potent. All he can do is fly at people and annoy them as he gets cut in half or something unless there are multiple battles where he can heal people in between. One thing a lot of people might forget though is that he should be invisible to Edward's party since faeries can only be seen by believers in magic/supernatural in Guts' world or if they deliberately make themselves known so Puck could be a spy. Maybe Puck can poison Edward's team's food secretly and kill them all before they can even do any fighting, lol. Puck might also be able to take a needle or something similar and stab it into someone's eye freaking said person out momentarily so he can get cut in half while distracted. Puck is very small and can fly as well just so you know what he looks like. Also, Edward firmly believes in science over magic/faith so saying he'll see Puck without any problem because he does things that seem miraculous to us isn't a sure thing.

Another thing I'd add is that Serpico might be able to protect Schierke with his wind powers so she can do some damage before being killed. In addition, I said Guts and Serpico tie with Greed because he is unlikely to be able to kill either of them even if they can't kill him since Guts is super durable/fast and Serpico has great evasion. If Greed's eyes can't become diamond hard I'd say Serpico might be able to blind him by cutting them with his wind sword since he doesn't have to even touch him with it. He could just wave it at his face from a distance over and over again. If Greed can be beat on like other homunculus until he uses up all his energy from the inferior philosopher stone pieces he ate and lose his durability than Guts could probably fight him long enough to do that since Guts is stronger than him as well as a vastly better fighter. Guts' armor may not be as durable as diamonds but Greed's punches aren't at diamond breaking strength either so people don't need as much protection as him to tie with him and end up with neither being able to do any damage. Greed could probably hurt Guts a good amount but Guts can fight with broken bones/muscles/etc without any problem when using his armor so any damage he takes won't be noticeable even if it really is significant.

Edward may have theoretically infinite power but he doesn't use it to its full extent. Claiming he'll just make people spontaneously combust isn't realistic. If he never does amazingly strong stuff like that in the manga or anime then why should he do it here? I think I've also read alchemists need to know the composition of what they are affecting to properly use alchemy as well. I think there was a part where one tried to transmute something but found out he used the wrong method like something being made out of steel and not stone causing his alchemy to not work. Also Edward doesn't have every other alchemist's powers so don't say he does. One person can turn people into human bombs just by touching them but he never does. Mustang can snap his fingers and make air turn into explosions of fire but he never does.

[hanzo66]

Can't quite remember much of FMA Alchemy but I don't think Guts' weapon is futzable without Ed being seriously mind-raped as the Dragonslayer is currently a demonic weapon (and trust me, Demons/Gods from Berserk are the worst of the lot, being Squick and Nightmare Fuel thrown straight into a blender with a side of innards and mind-shattering rape) since it's been used against the nasties so much. Also Guts is far from a brutish Might Glacier since he's pretty crafty and can swing that bastard without too much trouble. There's also his arm-cannon with flamethrower and auto-crossbow attachment.

Serpico can pretty much control Wind last time I checked and can fight well with Guts.

Schierke could probably devastate if given time, but might need someone to snap her out of the trance afterwards.

I doubt Farnese can stand up combat-wise (her main trait was that she is atoning from her pyromaniacal Inquisitor days and learning some magic), though her role is more Caretaker of Casca (who is not in this arrangement) than anything else I believe.

[nothingclever]

Edward also needed to learn how to disintegrate things in the anime before he could do what Scar did and Scar tried to transmute Edward's flesh not knowing it was actually his automail which didn't work. This might not all be the same as the manga but it shows alchemists can't just do anything they want without learning techniques, knowing what they are altering and having the imagination to do so. Another character is an expert in nature alchemy but Edward never uses it. That guy specialized since you need to, to be awesome at things. You can't be a master of everything without a lot of time.

[Piedmon_Sama]

The OP said the characters are fighting to disable, not kill. I can see that working fine for Ed and crew, since everyone on that team uses killing as a last resort (except maybe Ran Fuan, I don't remember her well enough). But.... Guts' Party fighting nonlethally? I can't even picture what that would be like.

[EvilElitest]

Edward sucks very often in both the manga and anime so I don't see him being all that great in this fight. He tries to fight people in melee combat plenty of times in each version and if he does this against Guts he'll definitely die. Guts can swing his huge sword faster than skilled swordsmen can swing their light ones without his special armor. Edward's transmuted weapons won't be able to endure his attacks so he can't parry and wait for some kind of opportunity like he usually does. Guts also has his berserker armor which makes his speed/strength/durability/etc vastly greater than what he already has. He is already superhuman in all those areas without his armor whether the manga specifically says so or not because he performs feats regular people simply can't do like fighting superhuman demons. Guts' armor also fully protects his body so you can't just say someone will aim for the chinks in it.

Ed goes for meelee because he likes to take people alive, not because he is a moron. He would just let Ed, or even better greed handle Guts. What can Guts do aginst greed i ask you?

Ed can focus of making walls, dividing the enemy forces, and generally annoying people. If this is anime ed, he might just turn his automail into a gun and open fire, because he is willing to kill in the anime.


If anyone from Edward's party tries to fight Guts in close combat they will definitely lose except for Greed which is a tie basically. It really isn't even debatable whether any of them could win against him. He cuts through thick stone pillars like butter without his armor when a master swordsman(Serpico) uses them to stop him his blade from reaching maximum speed. Even with the pillars slowing him a bit, emphasis on a bit, Serpico is the one tired and near death.
And you can't cut through Greed's shield. IF this is new greed, then he is really small and fast as well, with a cool sword thrown in
I haven't finished Beserk yet, so i will comment later .



Edward may have theoretically infinite power but he doesn't use it to its full extent. Claiming he'll just make people spontaneously combust isn't realistic. If he never does amazingly strong stuff like that in the manga or anime then why should he do it here? I think I've also read alchemist need to know the composition of what they are affecting to properly alchemy as well. I think there was a part where one tried to transmute something but found out he used the wrong method like something being made out of steal and not stone. Also Edward doesn't have every other alchemist's powers so don't say he does. One person can turn people into human bombs just by touching them but he never does. One can snap his fingers and make air turn into explosions of fire but he never does.
Wait a second there. Ed has pulled of some absurd stuff. Turning the ground into a cannon, his trick with scar melding teh dude into the ground, using his many tircks ect ect
from
EE

[Anteros]

If they are fighting to not kill then Gut's group wouldn't have a chance. They don't even know what non-lethal combat is. In a real fight, it would come down to Ed+Greed vs Guts in the Berserk armor.

Considering that Gut's sword is the only weapon in his universe that can cut a god, it may be able to punch through Greed's armor. Then again, it may not. If it can I give this to Guts by a hair, if not then he loses easily.

Also keep in mind that Greed can't seem to stay armored indefinately. He tends to use it in spurts as necessary, so it's not entirely unlikely for him to get taken out. We see all the time where he barely gets his armor up in time to stop a blow.

[Piedmon_Sama]

Ed goes for meelee because he likes to take people alive, not because he is a moron. He would just let Ed, or even better greed handle Guts. What can Guts do aginst greed i ask you?

Beat the hell out of him? What good is being invincible if Guts pounds Greed into the ground like a railspike?

[Lord of Rapture]

Added Hu to Greed's team.

I wasn't clear in my opening, so I will say it now: they can kill if they have to, but they don't need to to win, just knock the other team out.

[EvilElitest]

well old greed was able to keep up his shield of a while, he just didn't like it. New greed hasn't needed to yet
from
EE

[nothingclever]

Beat the hell out of him? What good is being invincible if Guts pounds Greed into the ground like a railspike?
That's my main concern about saying Greed could do anything to him. Guts could even just try to bat him away momentarily with his sword and kill/maim everyone else with some huge sword swings.

If anyone says Edward will transmute Guts' sword I really don't think that will work since Guts would be able to swing it before Ed can grab it without getting hurt unless Ed is positioned right beside Guts when the fight begins. If Ed tries to block with his automail it'll get cut in half and so will Edward.

Puck, Fernese and Schierke can all provide reconnaissance while invisible to any forms of detection Edward's party can use so Gut's team can pick the time and place of the fight if both teams start out not knowing where the other side is. The girls can use astral projection and Puck is invisible to people that don't believe in faeries/magic. Even people that are more open to believing in magical things are shown to feel they are hallucinating before actually believing Puck is actually there. Even when he tries to make himself known there are times when people ask where the noise is coming from while reflexively ignoring him.

[hanzo66]

Puck is at best a healer and from what I remember Elf Dust is mostly for minor injuries...

[Innis Cabal]

Beat the hell out of him? What good is being invincible if Guts pounds Greed into the ground like a railspike?

Not to mention the God Hand and the Apostles are all but immortal as well. And he does one heck of a job beating Apostles up like they were nothing.

Also, he's fought Zodd enough times. Real immortals. I think it goes to Guts and co.

[nothingclever]

Puck is at best a healer and from what I remember Elf Dust is mostly for minor injuries...
He saves Guts from injuries that would be fatal without his help and the characters clarify this.