Order of the Stick battles

[Assassin89]

I wonder how Xykon and other OotStick characters would fare against characters from other media in battle.
Battle 1: Xkyon vs. Rubicante from FFIV
Winner: Rubicante
Rubicante would heal Xykon before the battle and either kill Xkyon's body, severely injure Xkyon or turn Xykon back to a human. (I assume Rubicante's healing before the battle is positive energy, which an undead like Xykon would be weak against). If Xykon does survive, Rubicante would incinerate Xykon to ashes.

Battle 2: Xkyon vs. Harry Potter
Winner Xykon
Unlike Voldemort, Xykon is immune to death attacks and Dorukan is a more powerful wizard than Harry Potter.

Battle 3: Xykon vs. Richard from Looking for Group
Winner: No clue
Richard is probably similar in power to Xykon, but Richard has killed himself twice with no effort, contemplating whether it was suicide.
Battle 4: V vs. Drizzt Do'Urden
Winner Drizzt Do'Urden (assuming no lawyers are involved (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0065.html))
Suggestion for match-ups are welcome

:Edit new rule
Xykon loses a battle if any of these conditions are fulfilled

Xykon's physical form is destroyed
Xykon is destroyed in the same way a normal lich would be destroyed

Taking a magical item out of a robe is equal to taking an action because rummaging through a robe should be difficult.

[Darc Discordia]

Xykon vs. Xykon. Xykon wins. Turns out he just casts Disintegrate on a mirror.

[Mojique]

Battle 5: Elan vs. Patrick Star (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Star#Patrick_Star)

:smallwink:

[tribble]

spoiler the richard kills himself for...well, spoilers.

[rayne_dragon]

I kind of disagree with the Xkyon vs. Rubicante battle... I think Rubicante wouldn't use the healing as an attack since the whole point was to provide an even battle. Rubicante is the sort of guy to give his opponent a fair chance, but still more or less just spams fire spells at his opponents... while Xykon spams fire, lightning and negative energy at his foes, he's also a sneaky, underhanded lich, so I think Xykon would win either by spamming energy drains or some sort of trick when when's nearly dead. Plus Xykon would just regenerate from his phylactery anyways.

Xykon vs. Golbez, Zeromus or maybe even Rydia would be much more interesting. Rosa would fry him though (and then shoot his phylactery).

What about...
Xykon vs. Kefka (ff6)
Xykon vs. Sephiroph (ff7)
Xykon vs. Sauron (LotR)

[Zaphrasz]

Kefka: I think Xykon loses here. Not a big Final Fantasy fan, but from what I know, Kefka rends continents in half and is just as insane as Xykon. Granted, Xykon has access to epic spellcasting, so he is almost there, and may be capable of beating him as the story progresses or as we learn more of what he can do, but he has never yet shown that level of strength.

Sephiroth: Xykon, no question. Sephiroth isn't exactly a planner, kind of like Xykon, but he is the one who needs to hunt down a phylactery, while our lich friend just needs to spam energy drains and large amounts of lightning. Xykon is immune to death attacks and sneak attacks, things Sephiroth loves to use.

Sauron: Xykon. Sauron is tough, and probably the best planner out of all of the combatants, but he just doesn't have the raw power of an epic level sorcerer. His best trick, his ring, does nothing to a lich, who is immune to mind affecting spells. Cloister even ensures that Sauron can't find him through his "piercing gaze" or whatever they call it in the book.

[tribble]

Kefka: I think Xykon loses here. Not a big Final Fantasy fan, but from what I know, Kefka rends continents in half and is just as insane as Xykon. Granted, Xykon has access to epic spellcasting, so he is almost there, and may be capable of beating him as the story progresses or as we learn more of what he can do, but he has never yet shown that level of strength.

Sephiroth: Xykon, no question. Sephiroth isn't exactly a planner, kind of like Xykon, but he is the one who needs to hunt down a phylactery, while our lich friend just needs to spam energy drains and large amounts of lightning. Xykon is immune to death attacks and sneak attacks, things Sephiroth loves to use.

Sauron: Xykon. Sauron is tough, and probably the best planner out of all of the combatants, but he just doesn't have the raw power of an epic level sorcerer. His best trick, his ring, does nothing to a lich, who is immune to mind affecting spells. Cloister even ensures that Sauron can't find him through his "piercing gaze" or whatever they call it in the book.

Ahem, I believe that sauron would be somewhere around level 28 or so, considering that he is a Fallen Angel., and more powerful than a Balrog. (evidenced by Balrogs being elite footsoldiers, while Sauron was like Morgoth's Dragon.)

[FujinAkari]

I wonder how Xykon and other OotStick characters would fare against characters from other media in One-on-One battles.

Battle 1:
Xkyon vs. Rubicante from FFIV:

Winner: Rubicante
Rubicante would heal Xykon before the battle and either kill Xkyon's body, severely injure Xkyon or turn Xykon back to a human. (I assume Rubicante's healing before the battle would equate to a combination of True Resurrection, Cure Critical Wounds and Eight hours of Sleep). If Xykon does survive, Rubicante would incinerate Xykon to ashes.

Would this be a bad time to note that SoD made it clear that...

Xykon is not damaged by positive energy attacks

[FoE]

Would this be a bad time to note that SoD made it clear that...

Xykon is not damaged by positive energy attacks

Not then, during the last chapter of SoD. But it doesn't seem like he still has the item which gave him that ability.

[Finwe]

Sauron: Xykon. Sauron is tough, and probably the best planner out of all of the combatants, but he just doesn't have the raw power of an epic level sorcerer. His best trick, his ring, does nothing to a lich, who is immune to mind affecting spells. Cloister even ensures that Sauron can't find him through his "piercing gaze" or whatever they call it in the book.

First of all, you're comparing Xykon at full power to Sauron at his weakest (no corporeal form, not possessing ring). Equivalent to saying Sauron could kill Xykon without his body, because Sauron would just have to find the phylactery and destroy it.

More importantly, though, where FF and D&D are similar enough that they might be compared relatively well, I think that LoTR and your standard D&D campaign are far to different to be meaningfully compared. Sauron was considered among the most powerful of the Miia(sp?), who were equivalent to demigods in LoTR theology. However, Tolkien never really described exactly what such beings were capable of in full. For all we know, Sauron might not have access to spells above 5th level - the only spell like effects I can remember him using are dominate person, scrying, and polymorph.

[Kish]

Would this be a bad time to note that SoD made it clear that...

Xykon is not damaged by positive energy attacks
But Xkyon probably is.

[Starbuck_II]

Battle 2:
Xkyon vs. Harry Potter
Winner Xykon
Unlike Voldemort, Xykon is immune to death attacks and Dorukan > Potter


I disagree here.
Potter has Pheonix tears if he gets in trouble (cures what ails ya).

Potter can use his magic indefinitely (Xylon has spell slots; he has a good amount because he is a Sorceror but no Stat Magic items just Template boosting Stat).
Potter can use his Magic without verbal/somatic components (book 4 I think).

He can counter many spells. And are we talking after book 7 or before?
Before Book 7, Potter was immortal (only after Voldemort killed him did he have mortality).

[SoD]

Would this be a bad time to note that SoD made it clear that...

Xykon is not damaged by positive energy attacks

I did? If you insist...

Xykon vs. a Dalek.

I'd vote Xykon. Disintergrate'll probably knock out their protective armour stuff, then magic missle the bugger to death!

Ooh, Xykon: the next Doctor! With Tsukiko and Cap'n Jack as companions!

[Sinewmire]

Sauron vs Xykon?

Sauron. Bigtime.

Sauron is effectively a Lich, with the Ring as his phylactery, but he's a lich who is poised on the brink of overrunning the world, and is responsible for destroying a civilization. You have to get some serious XP for that.

if, for one moment, we assume that Xykon and Sauron are both in a compatible universe where their abilities can be realistically compared, then Sauron wins. He's higher level. Plus let's not forget one thing Sauron is excellent at is binding undead to his service.

Xykon vs Harry Potter? Well, Thog has already killed him.

[Theodoriph]

I disagree here.
Potter has Pheonix tears if he gets in trouble (cures what ails ya).

Potter can use his magic indefinitely (Xylon has spell slots; he has a good amount because he is a Sorceror but no Stat Magic items just Template boosting Stat).
Potter can use his Magic without verbal/somatic components (book 4 I think).

He can counter many spells. And are we talking after book 7 or before?
Before Book 7, Potter was immortal (only after Voldemort killed him did he have mortality).



Phoenix tears don't do anything when you're dead...and Xykon could one-shot Potter quite easily.

[Kato]

Okay, this thread is pretty interesting...

first of Xykon vs Rubicante
I'd go for Xykon. Rubi is pretty powerfull, but Xykon is an epic sorcerer. I don't know how R would stand againsts a disintegrate. Of course a massive amount of fireballs might fry X as well, but... in matters of sheer power X would probably win.
(Zeromus would kick the crap out if him at full power, since he can't be hurt by evil energy attacks, Golbeze might be pretty even, Rydia as well, in terms of attack, but she wouldn't really stand a chance to defend against Disintegrate and the like)

Stay with FF Xykon vs Kefka
Hm... I'd bet on Kefka, considering he can probably crush a continent or two. Maybe even a planet. Also I don't think X could take him easily out. On the other hand, a bunch of normal people could kill him... Hm... difficult. Though, I'd bet on K.

Xykon vs Sepiroth
Okay.... Sepiroth is pretry legendary... The question is, which rules we apply. If we consider anything from FF VII canon, then he is able to move at superhuman speed and perform inhuman stunts. Try aiming at him with any spell. On the other hand cutting X in pieces with a 5 feet katana isn't that difficult. If we apply D&D rules, we had to give him high scorey in about anything. So, he'd possibly be able to get close enough to Xykon to disrupt most of his spells and again finish him pretty quick. (again, question is how effective a hit with Disintegrate was)

Xykon vs Sauron
Okay, whoever read the books should know Sauron in the trilogy is just a a tiny brink of his power. He is a god-like being, with near-godly powers. Or at least a spellcaster at the top of epic levels. Against him X would utterly fail. Against the big-red-eye version... More difficult. We don't really know how far his power is limited then, it's never explicitely stated as far as I know. But... Xykon would probably put on the ring and then fall under Sauron's will. Win, Sauron.


But another issue: How would Xykon do against Black Mage (8-Bit-Theatre)?

[tribble]

First of all, you're comparing Xykon at full power to Sauron at his weakest (no corporeal form, not possessing ring). Equivalent to saying Sauron could kill Xykon without his body, because Sauron would just have to find the phylactery and destroy it.

More importantly, though, where FF and D&D are similar enough that they might be compared relatively well, I think that LoTR and your standard D&D campaign are far to different to be meaningfully compared. Sauron was considered among the most powerful of the Miia(sp?), who were equivalent to demigods in LoTR theology. However, Tolkien never really described exactly what such beings were capable of in full. For all we know, Sauron might not have access to spells above 5th level - the only spell like effects I can remember him using are dominate person, scrying, and polymorph.

The spelling is Maiar. :smallsmile:
note that Sauron was powerful enough without the ring to require all the wizards and even more to defeat him at Dol Guldur. (as the Necromancer.)

[hamishspence]

And I'm not sure if he didn't have a body- movie line "he cannot yet take physical form" is- movie only. in the Silmarillian, pre-Dol Guldur, the phrase is:

"Slowly he grew and took shape there again, in a dark hill he made his dwelling and wrought there his sorcery"
and:
"It is Sauron himself, who has taken shape again and now grows apace"
and:
"he re-entered his kingdom in Mordor"

Thats aside from Gollum "Black Hand" references in LoTR.

[rayne_dragon]

But another issue: How would Xykon do against Black Mage (8-Bit-Theatre)?

Wouldn't even be a fight. They'd both sit around making bets on how well various heroes escape from situations of nearly certain death. They'd be like best friends... evil best friends.

[Kato]

Wouldn't even be a fight. They'd both sit around making bets on how well various heroes escape from situations of nearly certain death. They'd be like best friends... evil best friends.

... Probably right. Since Xykon doesn't even suffer pain (does he?) BM wouldn't have a reason to hurt him. ('No screaming in agony? How lame...')

Oh, but since LotR is up to discussion:
Roy vs Aragorn
Haley vs Legolas
Durkon vs Gimli
V vs Gandalf (grey, white was probably a lame fight)
and... Belkar vs Frodo... *lol* Okay, let's make that 'vs all the hobbits', so he gets any exp out of it.

[Renx]

Roy vs Aragorn
Aragorn - 5th level ranger or so, so Roy.


Haley vs Legolas
Haley, Legolas doesn't get sneak attack damage.


Durkon vs Gimli
Now this would be interesting. Still, Durkon has Thor's Might, can heal himself pretty much indefinitely and is well-armoured compared to Gimli (whose axe isn't even magical iirc)


V vs Gandalf (grey, white was probably a lame fight)
This fight would never take place, but my money's on V.


and... Belkar vs Frodo... *lol* Okay, let's make that 'vs all the hobbits', so he gets any exp out of it.
Uh... Belkar.

Sorry to bust the book, but the Fellowship just isn't a high-level party. The whole point of the Fellowship was that all they have is a "fool's chance" which miraculously came through.

Against the Order? More like snowball's chance in hell.

[Siegel]

Xykon vs. Aldran from Anti-Heroes ?

[hamishspence]

Comic 459 "I forgot how much pain tends to hurt"

Xykon can feel pain all right.

[Flickerdart]

And remember, undead are weak against point-blank annihilation, AKA the mighty Hadoken.

It's a bit weird how everyone I can think of would be a poor match. Al'Thor is pretty much godlike except when plot demands it, Richard Rahl sucks except when plot demands it...what about Ged? He doesn't seem to be uber-powered most of the time.

[Zaphrasz]

That is because plot trumps all, so to be truly powerful, you need to have plot powers, such as Link or Squirrel Girl.

[tribble]

That is because plot trumps all, so to be truly powerful, you need to have plot powers, such as Link or Squirrel Girl.

This (http://www.flashportal.com/movies/zelda_heart_for_the_hero.html) is link's Weaksauce Weakness, by the way.

[Lord_Drayakir]

We can't really be discussing this too much. For example, someone mentioned a godly Rand al'Thor. Yeah, true. In the books he's godly. But if you were using the d20 Rules of Wheel of Time- oops, there he goes- he's not that great anymore. And balefire wouldn't work against Xykon anyway- regardless of circumstances his soul would go his phylactery, and besides- balefire is basically a glorified disintegrate.

If we're talking about Sauron, and the general world of Middle-Earth, remember that it would be considered a 'low-magic' world. There's like no evocation to speak of, the only undead are the Barrow-Wights, and the Ring probably wouldn't get hold of Xykon on the account that he's already evil and insane. It would probably drive the LE fragment of Sauron to madness.

The fight I would like to see is something like... Xykon vs. Nicodemus from the Dresden files. Both are effectively immortal. Heh.

The best thing to do is to compare against other D&D characters.

Raistlin vs. Xykon: Raistlin. Considering that Raistlin was able to hold off his own against several wizards using "Wish" spells, and then eventually kill ALL the gods with just his magic... well, that's no contest.

Elminster vs. Xykon: I'd say Xykon. While Elminster sure is a powerful wizard, he doesn't have the craftiness to deal with Xykon's craftiness. I remember somebody saying that Dracula wasn't smart, but he was cunning and crafty, and I think that's what Xykon possesses. Elminster would probably expect hostage situations, careful planning, etc.- but Xykon would kill the hostages, and then blow up Waterdeep for poop and giggles. Kinda like Dorukan, even.

[Assassin89]

Although some of you argue that Rubicante could not beat Xykon in a battle, consider the following

Rubicante has immunity to water, fire, and ice while his cloak is closed, healing him.
Rubicante counters fire spells with a positive energy revival (because most of his opponents are not undead)



Now let's consider these battles:

Miko vs Yang from FFIV:
Winner: Yang
Yang is a more skilled martial artist and is immune to smite evil

Cecil from FFIV vs Miko
Winner: Cecil
Same immunity to smite evil. Cecil is more emotionally controlled and he understands when to sheath his sword.

Barbariccia vs Haley
Winner: Barbariccia - unless Haley get the feat preferred enemy - flying tramp
Barbariccia would literally blow Haley away by transforming into a whirlwind

Scarmiglione vs Redcloak
winner: Scarmiglione
Redcloak has to fight the same enemy twice. If Redcloak barely survives the first round he's dead in the second. In addition, Scarmiglione would be difficult for Redcloak to turn or rebuke

Xykon vs Scarmiglione
Winner: Xykon
Although Scarmiglione is immune to death attacks, he one of the weaker archfiends and Xykon is likely to cast a fireball

The four Elemental fiends from FFIV vs. Team Evil
Winner: unknown
I have no idea if Xykon is destroyed before the battle begins, leaving Tsukiko, MitD and Redcloak.
Otherwise I believe that Cagnazzo's tsunami could hit Mitd and Scarmiglione is immune to MitD earthquake. In addition Barbariccia could zap MitD and the others with lightning and Rubicante would create an inferno, essentially burning everyone on team Evil.

[Winged One]

The fight I would like to see is something like... Xykon vs. Nicodemus from the Dresden files. Both are effectively immortal. Heh.

Hm...
Spoilers from SoD and the some books in the Dresden FilesI'd say it comes down to if they know how to kill the other. If Nick knows how Xykon's phylactery works, he'd know to call the Barabus Curse on Redcloak instead of Xykon after a bit of deduction by Anduriel or whatever his Fallen's name is, and then send one of the other Nickleheads after the phylactery if it survived Redcloak's death. If Xykon knows that Nick can be killed by the noose(and only the noose), he'll know to have a bunch of hobgoblins swarm him and strangle him(assuming he doesn't know Telekinesis that is). If Nick doesn't know how the phylactery works, he'd probably waste the Barabus Curse on Xykon and then wake up to a nasty surprise 1d10 days later (entrophy curses work on Black Court vampires, so they're probably not death effects). Likewise, Xykon, being an idiot, would probably react to Nick's invincibility by just spamming more magic if he doesn't know how to deprive him of it. Harry never sees the full extent of Nick's power if I remember right, so I have no clue how just a straight fight to the destruction of Xykon's body or an equal inconvenience to Nick would go. Xykon probably couldn't pull off the same strangulation attack that Harry did since Harry is in quite good shape from Murphy's Aikido lessons and all the practice at Operation GTFO, while Xykon seems to have been at Venerable when he became a lich.

This assumes that Nick doesn't just give Xykon a Denarius and watch while everyone in both of their worlds is completely boned.

Now, Xykon vs. Harry Dresden himself at the end of Small Favors, I'd like to see. Or maybe before Lash sacrificed herself...

[Assassin89]

Xykon vs. Aldran from Anti-Heroes ?

Aldran wins. Aldran stops time and then smashes Xykon's Phylactery or casts a spell that destroys liches.

[bladesyz]

We can't really be discussing this too much. For example, someone mentioned a godly Rand al'Thor. Yeah, true. In the books he's godly. But if you were using the d20 Rules of Wheel of Time- oops, there he goes- he's not that great anymore. And balefire wouldn't work against Xykon anyway- regardless of circumstances his soul would go his phylactery, and besides- balefire is basically a glorified disintegrate.


Ummm... no? Balefire burns someone out of existence, outside of time itself, so that even the Lord of the Grave cannot return them to life. It's arguable whether Xykon's soul would survive his body being balefired, but it's a moot point as being reduced to a phylactery counts as a defeat.

Xykon has mostly evocation spells, and D&D spellcasters, even sorcerers, are no match against WoT Channelers in raw power. Rand is able to weave shields against pretty much any of Xykon's direct damage attacks, while NOTHING is able to stop balefire, except maybe counterspell.

Rand isn't godlike either, btw. He would die to an arrow in the dark, just like any normal human, except that he twists the fates themselves, so it gets pretty hard to actually kill him in an ambush.

[Assassin89]

Here are a few more matches involving the linear guild (:nale::thog::sabine:)

Thog vs. Gilgamesh from FFV
Winner Gilgamesh
Gilgamesh is probably a better swordsman than Thog and Thog not able to outsmart Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh vs. Roy on the other hand...

Thog vs. Harry Potter
Winner Thog
Proof here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0253.html)

The linear guild vs. the Magus sisters from FFIV
Winner: depends on the order in which the Magus sisters are defeated.
The delta attack of the Magus sisters is powerful when all three sisters are alive, but depending on the order in which the sisters are defeated, the outcome will differ.

The linear guild vs. the elemental lords of Final Fantasy IV
Winner: the elemental lords
Cagnazzo can drown them, Barbariccia can hit them with lightning, Rubicante burns them, Scarmiglione will curse them

Thog vs. Kain from FFIV
winner Kain
I doubt Thog can reach Kain when he jumps until Kain deals a deadly blow to Thog

[Assassin89]

Now I have a few more involving a certain sane paladin and more battles against Xykon

Lien vs. Orthros from FFVI
Winner Lien
Looks like seafood soup is on the menu tonight

Lien vs. the Octomammoth from FFIV
Winner Lien
Same results as Lien vs. giant octopus (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0479.html)

Team Fortress 2
The scout from vs. Xykon
Winner: Xykon The Scout - apparently while I was giving my explanation for why Xykon would win, Xykon's head was batted in
Unless BONK the BOINK scout BONK can BONK disrupt BONK Xykon's BONK concentration BOINK BONK for BONK spells BOINK the BOINK scout BONK is BOINK dead.

Demoman vs. Xykon
winner Xykon
Xykon explodes

the Heavy vs. Xykon
Winner the Heavy
I doubt Xykon can outsmart bullet

[Ladorak]

Now I have a few more involving a certain paladin and more battles against Xykon


Am I the only one who saw 'A certain paladin' and immediatly assumed Miko?

[Assassin89]

Am I the only one who saw 'A certain paladin' and immediatly assumed Miko?

I already picked on miko twice.
Now I pick on her a third few more times

Miko vs. Sabin from Final Fantasy VI
Winner Sabin
better monk wins

Rosa from Final Fantasy IV vs. Miko
winner: Rosa at long distance combat, Miko at close range
Rosa is essentially a cleric with proficiency in bows. If Miko get close enough she might win against Rosa

Celes from Final Fantasy VI vs. Miko
winner Celes
I am pretty sure Miko is a less capable magic user. Celes is also a highly capable soldier

Miko vs. Cyan from Final Fantasy VI
winner Cyan the better samurai wins provided he attacks every turn

The Snarl vs. Cthulu
loser: the universe
The universe ends and it would be awesome

Order of the Stick vs. the elemental lords from FFIV
winner Order of the Stick
Roy's +5 sword gives the OotS an advantage against Scarmiglione.
Cagnazzo cannot use Tsunami due to Thor's Lightning from Durkon
Belkar either delivers death from above against Barbariccia or Belkar attempts to hump "hot chick" resulting in retaliation
No verdict on Rubicante although a few cone of colds from V could weaken Rubicante

Eugene Greenhilt vs. Tellah from final fantasy IV
winner: unknown
both likely to die due to physical exertion

[Assassin89]

I have thought of a few more battles involving my least favorite kolbold.
That guy has it coming to him.

The Oracle vs. Bahamut from Final Fantasy
winner bahamut
The god of good dragons wins

The Oracle vs. Tiamat from Final Fantasy
winner Tiamat
The Oracle loses against his patron god and any variation of it

That jerk vs. Draak from Irregular Webcomic: Fantasy
winner Draak
Too bad not all lizardmen joined in the killing as well.

That jerk vs. Steve from Irregular Webcomic
winner Steve
Looks like death of being wrestled to death by Steve will be cheated unless the lizardfolk do not intervene.

Each member of the Team Fortress 2 squad vs. annoying kolbold
winner: each member individually
Heavy turns Oracle into a bloody mess with his fists, Spy back stabs, Engineer smashes with wrench, Scout bats head in, Pyro axes him, Medic uses bonesaw, Demoman smashes Kolbold with a bottle, Sniper stabs with his knife, Soldier beats him with a shovel... and that's just the meele weapons

Richard from Looking for group vs. little jerk
winner: richard
There is no such thing as over kill against that little jerk

Oracle vs Killer Rabbit from Monty Python
winner Killer Rabbit
Run away! run away!

Oracle vs. dead parrot from Monty Python
winner Oracle
The parrot was already dead. The oracle wins the fight the same way he obtained his powers...the victory is handed to him

[chiasaur11]

I have thought of a few more battles involving my least favorite kolbold.
That guy has it coming to him.

The Oracle vs. Bahamut
winner bahamut
That little jerk has it coming to him

That jerk vs. Draak from Irregular Webcomic: Fantasy
winner Draak
Too bad not all lizardmen joined in the killing as well.

That jerk vs. Steve from Irregular Webcomic
winner Steve
Looks like death of being wrestled to death by Steve will be cheated unless the lizardfolk do not intervene.
Each member of the Team Fortress 2 squad vs. annoying kolbold
winner: each member individually
Heavy turns Oracle into a bloody mess with his fists, Spy back stabs, Engineer smashes with wrench, Scout bats head in, Pyro axes him, Medic uses bonesaw, Demoman smashes Kolbold with a bottle, Sniper stabs with his knife, Soldier beats him with a shovel... and that's just the meele weapons

Richard from Looking for group vs. little jerk
winner: richard
There is no such thing as over kill against that little jerk

Oracle vs Killer Rabbit from Monty Python
winner Killer Rabbit
Run away! run away!

Oracle vs. dead parrot from Monty Python
winner Oracle
The parrot was already dead. The oracle wins the fight the same way he obtained his powers...the victory is handed to him

I disagree with those outcomes.

The Oracle can see the future. He's got connections with every being of real power from Tiamat down. He's got Batman level utility belt skills.

If he can't get his grubby mitts on the holy hand grenade...

Well, he's not the same little snarkster most of us have come to love.

[Raging Gene Ray]

Rosa from Final Fantasy IV vs. Miko
winner: Rosa
immunity to smite evil plus Rosa is essentially a cleric with proficiency in bows

Even without smite evil, Miko's swords do some good damage...more damage than Rosa's arrows. Even if Rosa does happen to have Petrification Arrows, Miko has her high Fort Save (Even without Divine Grace, she'll likely make it).

And a healer isn't really suited for a one-on-one battle. Rosa might be able to drag it out long enough to reason with Miko, though...but then the battle doesn't happen, and there is no winner.
Winner: Miko



Celes from Final Fantasy VI vs. Miko
winner Celes
I am pretty sure Miko cannot counter magic

And I'm pretty sure Celes cannot counter a sword to the face and a wakisashi to the sternum. Still, if she has the right accessories (like that one that lets you cast 2 spells per turn), Celes would win easily.
Winner: Impossible to Determine.



Miko vs. Cyan from Final Fantasy VI
winner Cyan the better samurai wins


Cyan: If he waits for a couple of rounds, he'll get FOUR attacks at once!
Miko: Two weapon fighting and a high BAB gives her more than that per round. And she doesn't have to sit there getting punched in the face to do it.
Winner: Miko.



Miko vs. Sabin from Final Fantasy VI
Winner Sabin
better monk wins


Actually, I agree with this one. Sabin is what the D&D monk should have been.

Then again, for Final Fantasy characters, 300 HP is actually pretty low. If that's the case, then they would easily beat any character from a D&D setting.

[Kletian999]

Okay, this thread is pretty interesting...

first of Xykon vs Rubicante
I'd go for Xykon. Rubi is pretty powerfull, but Xykon is an epic sorcerer. I don't know how R would stand againsts a disintegrate. Of course a massive amount of fireballs might fry X as well, but... in matters of sheer power X would probably win.
(Zeromus would kick the crap out if him at full power, since he can't be hurt by evil energy attacks, Golbeze might be pretty even, Rydia as well, in terms of attack, but she wouldn't really stand a chance to defend against Disintegrate and the like)

Stay with FF Xykon vs Kefka
Hm... I'd bet on Kefka, considering he can probably crush a continent or two. Maybe even a planet. Also I don't think X could take him easily out. On the other hand, a bunch of normal people could kill him... Hm... difficult. Though, I'd bet on K.

Xykon vs Sepiroth
Okay.... Sepiroth is pretry legendary... The question is, which rules we apply. If we consider anything from FF VII canon, then he is able to move at superhuman speed and perform inhuman stunts. Try aiming at him with any spell. On the other hand cutting X in pieces with a 5 feet katana isn't that difficult. If we apply D&D rules, we had to give him high scorey in about anything. So, he'd possibly be able to get close enough to Xykon to disrupt most of his spells and again finish him pretty quick. (again, question is how effective a hit with Disintegrate was)

Xykon vs Sauron
Okay, whoever read the books should know Sauron in the trilogy is just a a tiny brink of his power. He is a god-like being, with near-godly powers. Or at least a spellcaster at the top of epic levels. Against him X would utterly fail. Against the big-red-eye version... More difficult. We don't really know how far his power is limited then, it's never explicitely stated as far as I know. But... Xykon would probably put on the ring and then fall under Sauron's will. Win, Sauron.


But another issue: How would Xykon do against Black Mage (8-Bit-Theatre)?

Xykon vs. Rubicante: Rubicante. As another guy mentioned Rubicante has a cloak that heals him if you attack it when closed: Xykon's too dumb to figure that out. Any "human" Final Fantasy character would fall prey to Death spells.

Kefka wasn't taken down by normal people, he was taken out by 14 individuals (including a half esper Terra and Celes who had the same magic infusion treatment before he absorbed the Statues) infused with the leaked out level bonuses and spells of dosens of magicite. That said, you need healing to defeat Kefka or else he'll just "Fallen one" you, an Angelic power, then knock you over. This also applies to Barbaricia's Storm spell that reduces targets to single digit HP.

Black Mage and he would get along as least as well as he and Tsukiko. Richard would surely kill Xykon as he's been just as if not more invicible seeming than a Lich while having

Martial arts skills from a Monk Soul
Backup magic power source from his gem, aka he plans
No Phylactery required to regenerate, the plane shift was only an inconveniance to him (it also proved he have no compunction killing someone similiar to himself).




Thog vs. Gilgamesh from FFV
Winner Gilgamesh
Gilgamesh is probably a better swordsman than Thog and Thog not able to outsmart Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh vs. Roy on the other hand...


Gilgamesh can outsmart HIMSELF! Who else'd be dumb enough to go into battle wielding Excali"pur" and do single digit damage instead of using their bare hands?

[Assassin89]

I disagree with those outcomes.

The Oracle can see the future. He's got connections with every being of real power from Tiamat down. He's got Batman level utility belt skills.

If he can't get his grubby mitts on the holy hand grenade...

Well, he's not the same little snarkster most of us have come to love.

Remember that the Oracle cannot see too far into the future. In fact the oracle could see his own defeat and try to avoid the battle. And avoiding prophecy can actually cause it. As for magic items, the Oracle would be too dependent on them for victory and therefore is weak in actual combat. In addition, I believe searching for a specific magical item would take some time, during which the Oracle could die. Without any levels in Cleric, the Oracle does not have any skills to fall back on.

[Assassin89]

Battle 5: Elan vs. Patrick Star (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Star#Patrick_Star)

:smallwink:

Winner Elan: Dashing Swordsman beats brain dead starfish in or out of water

[Raging Gene Ray]

Battle 5: Elan vs. Patrick Star (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Star#Patrick_Star)

:smallwink:

In what, a fight to the death or a Battle of the Bands-style sing-off?

[Assassin89]

A few using character from Anti-Heroes (http://ah.indolents.com/comic)

Haley vs. Lana
winner: Lana during the night, Haley during the day, and the viewing males regardless of who win because some guys might enjoy watching the cat fight
(http://ah.indolents.com/comic/26)
Eldhin vs. Miko
winner Eldhin
Not only can Eldhin fly, Miko cannot counter the magic he uses. In addition Eldhin is not as restricted for alignment because he is a cleric/fighter

Andil vs. Roy
winner Roy: Roy will probably give Andil a lecture afterward.

[pearl jam]

Aragorn - 5th level ranger or so, so Roy.


Haley, Legolas doesn't get sneak attack damage.


Now this would be interesting. Still, Durkon has Thor's Might, can heal himself pretty much indefinitely and is well-armoured compared to Gimli (whose axe isn't even magical iirc)


This fight would never take place, but my money's on V.


Uh... Belkar.

Sorry to bust the book, but the Fellowship just isn't a high-level party. The whole point of the Fellowship was that all they have is a "fool's chance" which miraculously came through.

Against the Order? More like snowball's chance in hell.


As Finwe, appropriately named to speak on this topic, pointed out previously, Lord of the Rings does not translate appropriately to D&D rules to make any comparison meaningful. If you try to convert the Tolkienien characters to D&D, giving them only skills, feats, abilities, etc that are clearly demonstrated within the story, of course none of them are going to be powerful high-level characters. If you try to increase their D&D level to something more appropriate to represent the stature they should have among the heroes of the world, then it becomes complete speculation, not that it isn't already. Conversely, if you convert the OOTS party into characters that would be appropriate to the Tolkienien setting, then the balance would shift the other way because the OOTS party would lose so many of the powers that make them formidable in the D&D world.

[Scion_of_Darkness]

I would say that Xykon and Richard start boasting about what they have done in an effort to psych out the other. This lasts some time. Then someone interrupts them to tell them they are supposed to be fighting. Both Xykon and Richard tell the poor fool to shut up, Xykon with Disintegrate and Richard with a Fwoosh. Both then laugh about it and decide to team up to destroy something for fun.

[Assassin89]

The crew from Team fortress 2 vs, Team Evil.
The biggest question is which four characters from Team fortress 2 will be used or if armies of undead will allow all nine TF2 characters to participate
Winner: depends on the setup although advantage goes to TF2

The demoman could create an explosion that wipes out team evil resulting in him saying: “Ooh, they're goin' to have to glue you back together... in hell!”
The heavy could just gun everyone down and :mitd: could be distracted by the sandvich
The sniper could perform a head shot against Redcloak or Tsukiko provided he stays hidden. "thanks for standing still"
The spy could at least take out Redcloak before he is killed by Xkyon
The scout would be wiped out before killing anyone, but he could injure anyone on team evil to some extend.
Soldier Crit Rocket to Xykon.
Pyro Burns everyone
Medic heals the other members of his group, but could create an ironic kill on xykon by using his bone saw.
Engineer summons sentries to take out team evil, summons dispensers to provide supplies to team mates

[Assassin89]

Thought up a few more possible battles

Kyros from Irregular Webcomic vs Belkar
winner: Kyros: Death of being stabbed, death of insanely overpower fireballs, and Beaten to a pulp by your fellow party members are on standby.

V vs Kyros
winner Kyros: death of insanely overpower fireballs standing by

Haley vs. Rosa from FFIV
winner: unknown: I do not know if Rosa's healing will offset the damage done by Haley.

Xykon vs. Exdeath from FFV
winner Xykon: Xkyon just metor swarms the poor guy.

[Lupy]

As a LOTR buff I would have to say:

Sauron vs/ Xykon: Sauron is a fallen Maia, or demigod. He would wipe Xykon out of existence easily. Note that Raistlin could take out Sauron without too much trouble.

Aragorn vs/ Roy: Aragorn. He is much faster than Roy, and Anduril could take apart a +5 greatsword easily, it's an artifact. To win Roy would have to hit him hard in the opening rounds.

Legolas vs/ Haley: Stalemate. Legolas could evade her sneak attacks and butcher her with his knives, and hold his own at a distance, his longbow can shoot 400yds. Haley is very, very stealthy and can jump much better though.

Gimli vs/ Durkon: Durkon has lighting, Gimli has a powerful axe. Durkon would take him down before he could close for melee though.

Gandalf the Grey vs/ V: Gandalf is an angel, V cannot hope to match his true power.

Witch King vs/ Redcloak: If Redcloak could kill the fell beast with a well placed spell he would have a fighting chance. He could kill the Witch King because he is a goblin and not a man after all, but if the Witch King could fly he would certainly win. Also, it depends on whether or not is mace is a replica of Grond, and if so, how accurate, as Grond could mulch nations...

[Zevox]

As a Tolkien geek, I cannot pass up the LotR comparisons. To preface though, past posters have been right that there really is no direct way to translate LotR characters into D&D and vice-versa, especially where magic is concerned. Tolkien liked to keep his magic mysterious and largely unseen, so that every encounter with it was, well, magical for the reader. D&D has a codified, precise, scientific view of magic that renders all its secrets open to whoever reads the rules, from the most minor parlor trick cantrips to world-shattering epic magic. Any attempt to compare them always comes down to speculation and each reader's interpretation of how they stack up to each other.

Xykon vs Sauron: Sauron handily. As others have noted, Sauron is a Maia, which in Tolkien's cosmology is more or less a lesser God. He was one of the more powerful of the bunch, too, as I recall. Xykon is powerful, but a God he is not. Also, while I won't go into detail since it would make this into an overly-long rant, it really isn't accurate to consider Sauron a Lich, as I saw someone did earlier - what he did with the ring was concentrate a portion of his divine power into it to use it as a focus to amplify his power. In doing so he tied his life to the ring, due to just how much of his power had been put into it, but it is not at all like a D&D Lich using a phylactery as a temporary receptacle for his soul.

Aragorn vs Roy: Impossible to call. While Roy is quite high-level for a D&D fighter, Aragorn is nearly 3x his age and has been adventuring for much of his life as well, so his experience and skill as a warrior is not going to be inconsiderable in comparison. Each is also armed with a potent weapon - Anduril is certainly at the least the equal of a D&D +5 sword, which is what Roy's would essentially be given it's anti-undead properties don't apply, and perhaps stronger. They may stalemate, or one may narrowly beat the other, but it would be a close fight either way.

Legolas vs Haley: If Haley got some sneak attacks off, her, no doubt. That may prove difficult against Legolas's elven senses, however - given some of the feats he performs in the novels, he has one hell of a spot check. In a fairer fight, perhaps Legolas would emerge victorious, especially if he could close for melee, since Haley seems to lack any sort of skill with a weapon other than her bow, but I wouldn't call it for certain if it came down to a simple archery contest.

Durkon vs Gimli: Durkon. Gimli might (and only might) be the superior fighter, but Durkon's spells tip the scales, no contest.

Gandalf the Grey vs V: Tough call. They have each achieved similar feats - V recently slew a devil that appears analogous to a Pit Fiend or Balor, and Gandalf slew a Balrog. Granted, Gandalf died in that fight too, but the only person to ever kill a Balrog and not die in the process was Tuor at the battle of Gondolin, so that's hardly a major strike against him. I suppose it depends on how limited Gandalf's power is. He is, like Sauron, a Maia; however he was never as powerful as Sauron, and his power is limited since he inhabits a true human form rather than one he created with his shape-shifting abilities. It's possible V would win if Gandalf's abilities are too limited, or possible Gandalf would overpower V if he had access to most of full abilities. Or even possible they would stalemate.

Witch King vs Redcloak: Well, since Redcloak is a Goblin, the prophecy that the Witch King could not be killed by any man doesn't bother him, so that's a start. From there it depends on how badly the fear that the mere presence of a Ringwraith inspires afflicts Redcloak, and whether the Fell Beast or any of the other Ringwraiths are involved. If it's a 1-on-1 and Redcloak keeps his wits about him, or if the Fell Beast is involved and Redcloak can down it early via magic (or counter it with a summoned ally of his own), he has a solid shot; especially if he uses something like Flame Strike, since the Ringwraiths hate and fear fire (and water, but there aren't exactly many clerical water spells out there for him to use). In any other circumstance, he's toast.

Belkar vs The Hobbits: Belkar massacres the little fat ones. Maybe Frodo gets away using the Ring, if he's lucky/exceptionally cowardly and willing to turn his back on his friends, but escaping is not a victory.

And since I see video game comparisons are prevalent, let me toss out a one of my own there:

The party from Dragon Quest 8 vs the Order of the Stick: The 4-persona DQ 8 party is outnumbered, but assuming they're at about the strength they were at when you beat the main game, not necessarily overpowered. Jessica could probably compete with V in terms of evocation-style magic, the Hero and Angelo are both potent both as warriors and healers, and Yangus probably beats any individual member of the order in pure physical prowess. It would really come down to how quickly the casters get taken out. If the Dragon Questers can down V early, and especially if they can follow that up by taking Durkon out, they'd win. If Jessica and Angelo fall too quickly, or V gets lucky with an especially nasty spell like Prismatic Spray, the Questers would lose. In an extended battle where no one falls early, the Questers have the edge due to their superior number of casters (particularly with two having such powerful healing abilities), the Hero's Gigaslash/gash, and Jessica's hit-everyone explosive spells.

Zevox

[Hann]

He can counter many spells. And are we talking after book 7 or before?
Before Book 7, Potter was immortal (only after Voldemort killed him did he have mortality).

Actually, he was only immortal to Voldemort. Pretty sure he still could die.

[Assassin89]

Actually, he was only immortal to Voldemort. Pretty sure he still could die.

That would explain why everyone else was out to kill Harry.

Speaking of Potter...

V vs. Potter
winner V: V has a more advanced set of spells that do not require a wand to function. Disarm Potter and he loses.

[Kish]

Actually, he was only immortal to Voldemort. Pretty sure he still could die.

Dumbledore said Harry was bound to life for as long as Voldemort lived with Harry's blood in him, unless he chose to die.

[Knaight]

Gandalf the Grey vs V: Tough call. They have each achieved similar feats - V recently slew a devil that appears analogous to a Pit Fiend or Balor, and Gandalf slew a Balrog. Granted, Gandalf died in that fight too, but the only person to ever kill a Balrog and not die in the process was Tuor at the battle of Gondolin, so that's hardly a major strike against him.

Actually Feanor went through quite a few. He died in the process, but that wasn't after a Balrog, he killed a fair amount. He did have the silimarililion at the time, but its still pretty impressive.

Pip and Flinx vs. V and Familiar: Could go either way, flinx can read emotions, and could distract V long enough for Pip to pull off the flying snake eye spitting acid trick, but V has a lot of destructive spells. Flinx has a sonic pistol, but V is one of the people who would realize the danger, so that advantage is null. Either Flinx gets Pip to hit V by surprise, Flinx goes unconscious and hits V with his one latent power, killing him, Flinx goes unconscious and V survives his latent power, taking him out afterwards, or Flinx finds the Tar-aiym-Krang, and takes out everybody, or V catches Flinx when Pip is asleep in a bunch of pretzels, and blows up the place while Flinx is dealing with his powers being intermittent. Pip could take out V's familiar any day.

Linear Guild vs. Ranji-Aar and team.: Ranji-aar and team, no contest. Not only are they far smarter, but they are cream of the crop, as well as being immune to mind control. Violently immune, as in you control them and get hit by feedback. Nale tries a suggestion, drops to the ground in convulsions, is shot. Sabine flies in, and is immobilized in a trap. Thog rushes in, guns fire. Kobold boy closes, and deals with grappling skills, preferably from someone other than Ranji-Aar.

Roy vs. 3 Molitars Roy wins, unarmed or armed. Sure, they are 8 foot tall, 400 pound behemoths, but human muscle density has a huge advantage, and Roy is smarter. Armed they have guns, which Roy survives, then closes. Low muscle density and bone density means that he hits them once and they die.

[Zevox]

Actually Feanor went through quite a few. He died in the process, but that wasn't after a Balrog, he killed a fair amount. He did have the silimarililion at the time, but its still pretty impressive.
Off-topic reply:
Er, I'm afraid you're confused somewhere. Feanor was never said to have killed any Balrogs - he was surrounded by them and mortally wounded by Gothmog, then his sons drove them off, but there was no mention of any Balrogs being slain in the process. And I have no idea what you're talking about with the Silmarillion. That was only the name of the story of the Silmarils, not an object. And I know you can't have meant the Silmarils themselves, since Morgoth had all three of those at the time, and they wouldn't be much if any help against a Balrog (the most they could theoretically do is scare them), so....
Anyway, while I'm posting, I may as well toss out another theoretical battle... hmm...

The Order of the Stick vs SEES (the party from Persona 3): SEES, easily. Young though they all are, every one of them is effectively a powerful spellcaster, and the hero can even change his abilities at-will. With half of the team being healers (Yukari, Ken, Mitsuru, Akihiko, plus potentially the hero) and all of them possessing offensive magic of some sort, often quite potent magic at that, the Order would be outclassed unless V had a spell that could take them all out round 1. It doesn't help that they outnumber the Order, either.
It would be amusing to watch Belkar and Koromaru fight though. Given how much he complained about Windstriker pinning him, I can't imagine how much he'd hate it if he got beaten by a dog. And he would, too - if not in a straight-up knife fight, then certainly as soon as Koromaru started casting his fire spells.

Zevox

[NENAD]

Xykon v. Sephiroth revisited

Okay, I'm going to use Sephiroth's moveset form Kingdom Hearts II as a base to create a One-Winged Angel prestige class with his abilities, the reason being having learned how to dodge them all, I know all of his KHII abilities, whereas in FFVII all that really mattered were the four-digit numbers that popped up on my screen when Y attack hit.

First off, every few rounds Sephiroth can launch what looks like about a dozen attacks at once, at a penalty to his BAB. Further, he has about four attacks per round at an impressively high BAB. Further, he can fly, and unless he came prepared, Xykon can't. Sephiroth is primarily a melee fighter, but he can launch his opponents into the air. Further, Sephiroth can vanish as soon as he's taken a certain amount of damage, and he can also take quite a bit of damage. Also, being a Final Fantasy boss, he's automatically immune to any and all instant kills.

Now then, Sephiroth has three magic attacks I remember. The first is his three columns of fire which he summons around himself. This is basically a prolonged fireball spell with higher than normal damage. There's probably some D&D lingo for that, but Xykon can probably take that blow. The second is his heartless angel attack. This reduces the enemy's health to one and mana to zero, in D&D terms it reduces HP to one and removes all spellcasting abilities for the remainder of the day, however it's easily interrupted by anyone with ranged abilities. Xykon doesn't need to worry about that. Finally there's meteor, which coats the area in falling meteors which do a fair amount of damage, which would equate to a fair amount of Reflex saves. I think it's safe to say Xykon will fail at least a few of these.

Sephiroth also has very high saving throws and health, and all of his spells operate on a time-delay. After so many rounds pass, he can cast them again, however he can never run out of spells. Sephiroth as a boss fight requires lots of stamina and healing, and it will ultimately come down to a contest of who can pump out the most damage and who can tank the most damage. Sephiroth is by far tankier than Xykon, and while damage favors Xykon, it doesn't favor him that much. Plus there's Sephiroth's saving throws to get over.

I'd give the fight to Sephiroth.

[Assassin89]

Miko vs. the Black knight from Monty Python
Winner Miko: the Black knight is ignorant to the bleedin' obvious

Haley vs. Mordekai from Irregular Webcomic
Winner Mordekai: better equipped for close combat. Mordekai has a +5 sword of sharpness (http://irregularwebcomic.net/86.html)
Lambert from Irregular Webcomic vs Belkar
winner Belkar: stab stab stab. Lambert is essentially useless in combat.

[whitelaughter]

Xykon vs Sauron
Okay, whoever read the books should know Sauron in the trilogy is just a a tiny brink of his power. He is a god-like being, with near-godly powers.

Sauron - at the peak of his powers was been beaten up by an elf girl looking for her boyfriend: or more accurately, by elf girl's pet dog.

He gets chased out of Dol Guldor by the White Council, who average 5th level (Gandalf's highest level spell is Lightning Bolt, and he's the second most powerful wizard; Galadriel's highest level spell is Scrying, and she's the senior elf).

As pointed out, Sauron is scary because the heroes of the setting are very low level.

And he has a superb PR team that other villains should learn from!

To put the entire setting into perspective, Luthien puts Sauron's boss and entire court of Balrogs etc into a charmed sleep with her Bardic abilities, so it's possible that *Elan* is a match for Morgoth! (After all, pre-3rd ed means no Will Saves, and Morgoth is as 'pre' as you can get).

[Zevox]

Sauron - at the peak of his powers was been beaten up by an elf girl looking for her boyfriend: or more accurately, by elf girl's pet dog.
You might recall that A) Huan was no ordinary dog, but a hound from the land of Gods the size of a horse who was the gift of one of those Gods to one of Feanor's sons, and B) Huan had a prophecy associated with him at the time that rendered it impossible for Sauron to beat him. Huan could never be killed until he faced the most powerful wolf to ever live, which was Carcharoth. Sauron was doomed in that encounter no matter what.


To put the entire setting into perspective, Luthien puts Sauron's boss and entire court of Balrogs etc into a charmed sleep with her Bardic abilities, so it's possible that *Elan* is a match for Morgoth! (After all, pre-3rd ed means no Will Saves, and Morgoth is as 'pre' as you can get).
To put Luthien into perspective, recall that she was the daughter of Melian the Maia, and thereby a half-Goddess herself. Also, magical songs are a common form of magic in Tolkien (hell, the world was created by a magic song!), and not nearly as laughably weak as they are in D&D (recall another feat Luthien performed with her magic singing was toppling a tower so thoroughly that its underground dungeon was exposed to the sunlight - could Elan's bardic talents do anything close to that?). Also recall some of the feats Morgoth was capable of, like raising mountains at-will (he created the Misty Mountains just to make it more difficult for Orome to bring the Elves to Aman, and created the greatest, sheerest mountains of Middle-Earth, the three peaks of Thangorodrim, to tower over his fortress Angband), or creating the first Dragons, including one who was large enough that when he was slain, those three largest mountains of Middle-Earth, Thangorodrim, were crushed beneath him as he fell. This is no minor villain no matter how you look at him.

I'll not argue the specifics of the White Council and Tolkien's magic with you, since as I said before that's entirely up to reader perspective since Tolkien keeps his magic off-screen all the time. Obviously, I disagree with your interpretation of them, but there's no real way to argue those thanks to the way Tolkien treated his magic compared to how D&D does.

Zevox

[hamishspence]

Music As Magic does happen in multiple fictional setting- LOTR Silmarillion- the elven king Finrod using it to disguise himself, as does Luthien. Sauron uses it to strip the disguise.

L. E. Modesit Jnr's Spellsong cycle take this concept and turns it up to 11- creating volcanoes, Rain of Fire that wipes out every enemy in a castle or on a battlefield, etc.

[Assassin89]

Now let's see how the assassin with the low INT and WIS fares.

Crystal vs. the Spy from TF2
winner the Spy: Crystal does not see it coming

Crystal vs Gilgamesh from Final Fantasy V
winner: depends on who outsmarts the other. Although Gilgamesh has the advantage in weaponry.

Crystal vs. Shadow from Final Fantasy VI
winner Shadow: Shadow outsmarts Crystal

Crystal vs. Lambert from Irregular Webcomic
winner: Crystal: She finally wins a battle...against someone with no combat proficiency

[paladinlady]

what about:
V vs master chief (halo),
xykon's army vs the flood (halo),
roy vs arbiter (halo),
xykon vs 343 guilty spark (halo),
the snarl vs azzathoth (call of cuthulu),
the OOTS vs the flood (halo),
xykon vs master chief (halo).

[Assassin89]

what about:
V vs master chief (halo),
xykon's army vs the flood (halo),
roy vs arbiter (halo),
xykon vs 343 guilty spark (halo),
the snarl vs azzathoth (call of cuthulu),
the OOTS vs the flood (halo),
xykon vs master chief (halo).
One problem I see is that there is no explanation for why the crew from (halo) would win. In addition most characters from halo do not translate well into a D&D setting since the rechargeable shields for halo characters makes the battles too unbalanced. Yes am I am aware that my battles pitting that annoying kolbold against powerful creatures may seem unbalanced, but the Oracle does have a chance of winning if he pulls out the right magical item before he is killed.

[matiris]

One problem I see is that there is no explanation for why the crew from (halo) would win. In addition most characters from halo do not translate well into a D&D setting since the rechargeable shields for halo characters makes the battles too unbalanced. Yes am I am aware that my battles pitting that annoying kolbold against powerful creatures may seem unbalanced, but the Oracle does have a chance of winning if he pulls out the right magical item before he is killed.

sooo i think those are good idears, i would really like some one to tell me the ressults, those are some sweet battels :smallsmile:

who is azzathoth

[matiris]

what about:
the OOTS vs the flood (halo)
.

i think i might be able help:

roy= infected, could kill combat forms but not fast enough to deal with the infection forms

hayley= alive (mabey infected)= how fast can she use her bow

durkon= infected, see roy, but he cloud use some shied spells

V= alive, use a range of spells to defeat the forms

belkar= proberly infected, see roy

elan= infected, has spells but, see roy

[Thane of Fife]

V vs master chief (halo),
xykon vs master chief

From my (admittedly, quite limited) knowledge of Halo, I would give these to MC and Xykon, respectively. I just don't see V as being able to take the firepower MC (or any futuristic character, really) can put out in 6 seconds, and, as I believe that MC has superhuman reflexes, he's likely to win the Initiative. If V got the chance to act, though, it's not unlikely that s/he could take the Chief down in a single round - he doesn't really have that much health.

Xykon, on the other hand, probably does have the hp to survive a round of shooting, which would give him the chance to hit MC with a Meteor Swarm or Forcecage, or whatever, almost certainly giving him the win.


For other people to examine:

6 People (Your Choice) from the Tales of Symphonia crew vs. the Order

6 People (Your Choice) from the Golden Sun crew vs. the Order

I think the second one probably goes to the Golden Sun group - the Order doesn't really have a way to negate the shield djinn - Flash, Granite, and, I believe, Shade - which more or less negate almost all of their offensive power. Mia can easily heal that small amount of damage each turn, and the last two characters can deal some pretty horrific damage.

I think the first one's intriguing, though.

[matiris]

what about:
xykon's army vs the flood (halo),
roy vs arbiter (halo),
xykon vs 343 guilty spark (halo)

well:

the flood (infect all the army)
arbiter (more damage and more health)
343GS (no spell xykon has could touch spark)

please say what you think
and what is azzathoth:smallmad::smallannoyed:

[Assassin89]

well:

and what is azzathoth:smallmad::smallannoyed:

I think azzathoth is a Lovecraftian entity who drive everyone insane

Dominic Deegan vs. The kolbold Oracle
Winner Deegan: the kolbold has no knowledge in magic and the kolbold loses any advantage provided by a hidden magic item because the kolbold does not have the element of surprise anymore.

[Terex4]

Crystal vs. Quina (FFIX)
Either pickle death attack keeps Quina occupied long enough to kill her or Quina gets impatient and attempts to catch the pickles before they're thrown with her giant fork, stabbing Crystal in the process.

Roy vs. Link (OoT at full power)

Belkar vs. Legolas in an orc tracking contest

Xykon vs. Emperor Palpatine

[Assassin89]

Roy vs. Link (OoT at full power)
No verdict



Belkar vs. Legolas in an orc tracking contest

Winner Legolas. Belkar has no ranks in survival. The only way Belkar wins is if he stabs Legolas during the contest because Belkar would be the only participant in the contest.



Xykon vs. Emperor Palpatine
Winner: Xykon - I think Liches are immune to lightning

[Niley]

Um, so... has anyone here read 'The Last Wish' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Wish_(book)) of the Witcher Saga? Well, there's a chance that someone did.

Roy vs. Geralt the Witcher
Winner: Geralt
Geralt is genetically modified. He might not be as strong as Roy, but his lightning reflexes make up for it. Roy might not have a chance to hit, while Geralt knows exactly where to hit to make it hurt.

Vaarsuvius vs. Yennefer
Winner: none
Both are powerful, and their spells seem equal in power. I think they would fight for hours, slowly wearing each other's HP down, then both withdraw from the battle.

Elan vs. Dandelion
Winner: Elan
Too obvious. Read the book and you'll know.

[Zevox]

6 People (Your Choice) from the Tales of Symphonia crew vs. the Order
Unless you exclude the best spellcasters of the group (Genis and Raine), the Tales of Symphonia crew would likely win. Genis could compete with V in magic, assuming he's a full end-of-game power, and Raine's healing more than equals Durkon, plus the two can combine their spells to incredible effect. With, say, Lloyd, Kratos, Presea, and Sheena to act as meleers and keep Belkar and Roy away from the half-elves (and Sheena using her summoning to boot, now that I think of it), it'd just be a matter of taking down V and Haley (because she could theoretically interrupt Genis and Raine with her arrows, and perhaps shoot them down if not dealt with), and the match would go to them pretty much automatically from there.

Now, without those two, it's another matter. Say the group is Lloyd, Collete, Kratos, Presea, Sheena, and Regal. For magical support they'd need to rely on Sheena's summoning and such power as Collete and Kratos could muster between them, which isn't nearly as good as if Genis and Raine were around. Yeah, Regal can offer some healing too, but he's probably better off fighting in melee. It'd be a simple matter for V to take down Sheena, and from there the Symphonians are outclassed. Even if their warriors could one-on-one anyone in the order, the magical support from V and Durkon being able to out-heal Kratos, Collete, and Regal combined turns the tides easily.

There could be some interesting 1-on-1 potential in this match up though, I think. How about:

Presea vs Belkar: This'd be close. I think I'd have to give it to Belkar though. Presea is a tough girl, but between how ponderous that big ol' axe of hers is and Belkar's potential to surprise her with his ring of jumping, I think the little psycho could beat her.

Kratos vs Durkon: Two meleers with magic to back them up, another close one. Durkon's magic is superior overall, but Kratos' melee skills outclass him. Long-term, I think Kratos would overcome. Durkon would be forced to heal often to compensate for wounds from Kratos' sword and spells, giving Kratos all the more opportunity to attack. Durkon's main hope would be offensive magic like Harm or Flame Strike, but he doesn't seem like he prepares those much, if at all. Thor's Might could give him an edge, but it has too short of a duration to be a game-changer unless he used it at a crucial moment.


6 People (Your Choice) from the Golden Sun crew vs. the Order

I think the second one probably goes to the Golden Sun group - the Order doesn't really have a way to negate the shield djinn - Flash, Granite, and, I believe, Shade - which more or less negate almost all of their offensive power. Mia can easily heal that small amount of damage each turn, and the last two characters can deal some pretty horrific damage.
You're likely right there. Assuming Mia or Jenna was among the group to heal, even without constant use of Flash/Granite/Shade, they'd win. Especially if one or two of them devoted themselves to using Djinn abilities then following up with some summons - those things are well beyond the capacity of the Order to deal with.

Again though, could be some interesting 1-on-1 potential between the groups. For now, I'll leave that for others to explore.


Roy vs. Link (OoT at full power)
Link. Nayru's Love makes this hopeless for Roy, especially if backed up by a few bottles of green/blue potion. Even if you take Nayru's Love out of the equation, I'd still say Link, since his many different tools give him an edge even if Roy were the better swordsman (which I'd doubt). Magic arrows, bombchus, Din's Fire, bombs, the Megaton Hammer - the guy is a walking fantasy-style arsenal.


Belkar vs. Legolas in an orc tracking contest
Legolas. When was the last time Belkar could track worth a damn? Really now, Miko was a better tracker than him, and she was a Paladin/Monk.


Xykon vs. Emperor Palpatine
Xykon. Palpatine is old and decrepit, and wouldn't survive a good shot from the Lich. Meanwhile, Xykon is immune to lightning, can't be choked, and could certainly survive being battered around by force pushes/grip for quite a while. Palpatine's only way to win would be to use the force to completely immobilize Xykon, then hack him to pieces with a lightsaber, and he'd be dead before he could figure that out.

Zevox

[Assassin89]

I have view some machinima involving WoW (http://www.wegame.com/users/Oxhorn/videos/) and though of some battles involving the characters in those machinima.

Associate Professor Evil and Barnaby vs V and Blackwing
Winner Associate Professor Evil and Barnaby - Blackwing has nothing against a giant crab, not to mention "Elf on apply directly to an elf" (http://www.wegame.com/watch/Elf_On/)

Associate Professor Evil vs Most druids
winner Associate Professor Evil - "hippy on apply directly to a hippy" (http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy4AwQgWX78&feature=channel)

Associate Professor Evil vs Pompey the half elf
Winner Associate Professor Evil - better magic user and elf on

[Texas Jedi]

Elminster vs. Xykon: I'd say Xykon. While Elminster sure is a powerful wizard, he doesn't have the craftiness to deal with Xykon's craftiness. I remember somebody saying that Dracula wasn't smart, but he was cunning and crafty, and I think that's what Xykon possesses. Elminster would probably expect hostage situations, careful planning, etc.- but Xykon would kill the hostages, and then blow up Waterdeep for poop and giggles. Kinda like Dorukan, even.

Uhhh I am going to have to disagree with you here. Elminster would blow Xykon apart befor X even knew what hit him.

Elminster has bested every foe that has been thrown at him. He has killed Manshoon (Xykon equivilant) so many times that it isn't even funny anymore. Elminster is a Chosen of a god, and he has a one power that Xykon can't stop Silver Fire. That is magic in its almost purest form given to him for being a Chosen of Mystra. It can be used to heal him, blast thru all non epic level spells, and many other uses. As crafty as X is he is not nearly as crafty as El.

[Edit:


The party from Dragon Quest 8 vs the Order of the Stick: The 4-persona DQ 8 party is outnumbered, but assuming they're at about the strength they were at when you beat the main game, not necessarily overpowered. Jessica could probably compete with V in terms of evocation-style magic, the Hero and Angelo are both potent both as warriors and healers, and Yangus probably beats any individual member of the order in pure physical prowess. It would really come down to how quickly the casters get taken out. If the Dragon Questers can down V early, and especially if they can follow that up by taking Durkon out, they'd win. If Jessica and Angelo fall too quickly, or V gets lucky with an especially nasty spell like Prismatic Spray, the Questers would lose. In an extended battle where no one falls early, the Questers have the edge due to their superior number of casters (particularly with two having such powerful healing abilities), the Hero's Gigaslash/gash, and Jessica's hit-everyone explosive spells.

Zevox

Party from DQ8 because of one spell......Stopspell. Cast that and V and Durkon are both out of the fight.

[Gol_Stoan]

Xykon Versus Agatha Heterodyne (Girl Genius)

Winner: Agatha, depending on whether she has access to a pocketknife, copper wire, and duct tape. :smalltongue:

If she is not wearing her locket she would have The Other at her command, though she would be being controlled by the personality of her mother Lucrezia Mongfish, and would technicly not be herself.

[Wikimaster]

Haley Starshine v.s. Holly Short(Artemis Fowl)
Durkon v.s. Mulch Diggums(Artemis Fowl)
V v.s. Opal Koboi*(Artemis Fowl)
Roy v.s. Butler**(Artemis Fowl)

*During or after Artemis Fowl: The Time Paradox, where she gets immense powers from animal brain fluids(if it's after, she also gets a nifty LEP suit).
**After Artemis Fowl: The Eternity Code(where his strength is reduced greatly by having Kelvar fibres in his chest) No guns(too unbalanced), exept the tranquilizer one.

[pjackson]

Xykon has mostly evocation spells,

But he does use a lot of necromancy too, particularly finger of death, enervation and animate dead.

[Zevox]

Party from DQ8 because of one spell......Stopspell. Cast that and V and Durkon are both out of the fight.
True, but it's not the most reliable spell out there. And in theory Durkon has access to its equivalent from the D&D repertoire, Silence.

Zevox

[Assassin89]

Samurai Jack vs. Samurai Jill (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0370.html)
Winner Samurai Jill: Jack's sword is unable to harm another innocent while Jill's sword is under no such restriction. The main question is whether Jill counts as an innocent. But then again, who in the darkness of their own hearts is truly innocent? (http://irregularwebcomic.net/1948.html)

Miko vs. Gilgamesh from Final Fantasy
winner Gilgamesh: Dual wielding paladin out armed by man with six arms. Not to mention that Gilgamesh is probably Chaotic Neutral.

Now let's factor in sidekicks/mounts/animal companions.

Miko and Windstriker vs Gilgamesh and Enkidu
Winner Gilgamesh again. Enkidu and Gilgamesh are not as likely to be pinned by Windstriker, not to mention that Miko and Windstriker should have a difficult time hitting a flying target.

[fang_q]

I would do these, but it is much more fulfilling to watch you guys to them:

Roy vs Eragon

Xygon vs Doctor Who

Someone* vs The Planet Devourer (http://galactanet.com/comic/view.php?strip=312)

*Insert OOTS character here

[Assassin89]

I would do these, but it is much more fulfilling to watch you guys to them:

Roy vs Eragon

Xygon vs Doctor Who

Someone* vs The Planet Devourer (http://galactanet.com/comic/view.php?strip=312)

*Insert OOTS character here

No verdict on the first two, but The Planet Devourer loses most of the battles because it would take years before it could do serious damage, during which it is killed.

[Agrippa]

In my opinion Xykon versus Sephiroth could easily end up with Sephiroth as Xykon's slave. All the spells Xykon needs are maximized meteor swam, maximized magic missle, maximized ray of frost and deathwatch. After knocking Sephiroth unconcious and dragging him back to Team Evil headquarters all Xykon has to do inflict a stead and measured physical and emotional pain for a prolonged period of time breaking what ever sense of self the self-righteous megolomaniac with nine foot long katana and an angel fetish has left. Perfect chief minion material.

Vaarsuvius versus Aerith Gainsborough
This match assumes that Aerith isn't dead (or course) and that she's 14th level healer (with spontaneous casting)/Cindy sorcerer with a 22 to Wisdom and Charisma and an Intelligence score of 15 to 17 (depending on how high you'd place Cloud's Intelligence score). The battlefield is a 100' long by 100' wide clearing with ample oppertunities for cover. Surrender will be accepted.

[Assassin89]

How about a battle between two armies?

the Monks of Fabul from final fantasy IV vs. The sapphire guard of Azure City
Winner unknown, but the monks of Fabul do have an advantage in terms of competence because they had to killed in an ambush rather than forced to kill each other.

[Finwe]

I would do these, but it is much more fulfilling to watch you guys to them:
Xykon vs Doctor Who

Now this is interesting. On the one hand, Xykon wins by far in terms of sheer power. On the other hand, Doctor Who has likely already heard of Xykon, knows all his weaknesses, and has a spiffy pseudo-scientific explanation for Xykon's magical powers that can be used to create a gadget that exploits their mechanics. In addition, Xykon is exactly the sort of enemy that the Dr. routinely goes up against, and bests - hard to kill, has strange powers, evil maniac. Furthermore, the Dr has such an advantage in technology and intellect that it's not even funny, and as a Time Lord has at least as many, if not more, immunities than Xykon does, as a Lich. In addition, he has the sonic screwdriver (a.k.a deus ex machina-driver), as well as an almost indestructable time and space traveling police pox.

In the very worst case, Xykon will manage to blast the Dr, killing him. The Dr will then wake up, say to himself "rather unpleasant bloke, he was," then proceed to either:

A. Leave oots-world, exploring the rest of the galaxy, or, FAR more likely,

B. Explore the local phenomenon of holes in the space time continuum appearing around the planet, looking for a solution to permanently seal them. Along the way, he'll pick up a wacky and/or sexy side-kick, aid the Azure City resistance group, jump start the technological developments in Cliffport, and eventually confront Xykon, to whom he will offer a Jelly-Baby before unmaking all of his plans and trapping him in an anti-time-quark-phase-null-reality-pocket for all eternity, and sealing each of the rifts with his Sonic Screwdriver(tm).


Winner: The Doctor

[jeffreyac]

Winner Legolas. Belkar has no ranks in survival. The only way Belkar wins is if he stabs Legolas during the contest because Belkar would be the only participant in the contest.


So, I'm thinking it's a clear victory for Belkar, then - no other conclusion here. I mean, can anyone NOT see him skewering Legolas?

I'm thinking the only way Belkar doesn't win (by knifing legolas) is if it's a tie - Legolas is dead, and Belkar STILL can't track orcs, so no winner....

[Assassin89]

Few more battle ideas:

Edge from Final Fantasy IV vs. Therlka

Yuffie from Final Fantasy VII vs. Therlka

Edge from Final Fantasy IV vs. Miko

Tifa from Final Fantasy VII vs. Miko

Odin from Final Fantasy vs. the god Odin
Winner Final Fantasy: Zantetsuken pretty much cleaves the god in half

Pompey vs. Rydia
winner Rydia: the more power conjurer wins. Bahamut, Shivra, Ifrit, Levithan, Odin, Ramuh, Titan or Dragon vs. centipedes and spiders? Pompey is screwed.

Gilgamesh from Final Fantasy vs. Xykon
winner Xykon: Gilgamesh takes out the Bluepommel, Redblade, and Orangescabbard only to be blasted into oblivion.

[Graymayre]

Stay with FF Xykon vs Kefka
Hm... I'd bet on Kefka, considering he can probably crush a continent or two. Maybe even a planet. Also I don't think X could take him easily out. On the other hand, a bunch of normal people could kill him... Hm... difficult. Though, I'd bet on K.


Instead of Xykon vs Kefka, how about Xykon vs. Kafka
I'd probably say Xykon. Knowing Kafka, he would just be turned into a bug at the beginning and question god's mercy for having him change into one. The only way I see Kafka winning is if he depressed Xykon into a coma.

[Raging Gene Ray]

Few more battle ideas:

Edge from Final Fantasy IV vs. Therlka

Yuffie from Final Fantasy VII vs. Therlka

Edge from Final Fantasy IV vs. Miko

Tifa from Final Fantasy VII vs. Miko


Edge vs. Therkla: Edge. He just seems more combat oriented than the D&D ninja. Sure, Therkla could poison him, but FF characters just take a small amount of damage each round instead of dying. Her only chance is to attack and run off, but if Edge has one of those super special awesome stars, she's gettin' insta-killed.

Yuffie vs. Therkla: Depends entirely on what materia Yuffie has. Only if she has good healing materia and/or some really good summons will she win (Knights of the Round comes to mind...and W-Summons...and other such precious gems) Without either of those: Therkla.

Edge vs. Miko: Seems about even...50/50 chance for each, unless Edge has one of his grossly overpowered stars.

Tifa vs. Miko: Miko. She can Stunning Fist Tifa (tee hee) and get a free attack in. Plus there's the fact that FFVII characters only get one attack per round as opposed to Miko's 6-8. Unless Tifa gets a Limit Break with really good slot results...or has the right materia.

[Flickerdart]

My understanding is that characters should have similar mentalities (or else, complete opposites) to battle, which leads us to...
HK-47 VS Belkar Bitterleaf.
HK would probably win, what with his ranged weapons and lack of fleshy bits that would motivate Belkar. Repeating blasters are superior to daggers.

[Assassin89]

Belkar vs. Richard from Looking for Group
Winner Richard: Richard could over power Belkar, but he would keep Belkar alive in order to be stabbed continuously.

Odin from Final Fantasy vs. The Order of the Stick
Winner Order of the Stick: It is not a case of being outnumbered, but more a case of Thor's Lightning

Celia vs. Navi
Winner Celia: The sylph would regret killing the fairy, but some might rejoice over the death of the fairy

Kasumi Kato vs. Yang's wife from Final Fantasy IV
Winner Kasumi Kato: Yang's wife is able to repel a few soldier with a frying pan. Kasumi can do the same thing, but with a pillow and while pregnant.

Few more battle ideas

Belkar vs. Kain from Final Fantasy IV

Roy vs. Cecil from Final Fantasy IV

[Edanor]

Here's a decent one.

The entire OOTS VS The Vault Dweller, The Chosen One, and The Lone Wanderer.

[Grail]

Aragorn - 5th level ranger or so, so Roy.


Shows you don't know much about LotR. Aragorn has been the head of the Rangers of the North for decades. He is more than a 5th level Ranger, at the start of the trilogy, he would easily be high teens.

Then he's Anduril once the Fellowship gets underway.

I won't comment on your other matchups.

[Grail]

Durkon vs Gimli: Durkon. Gimli might (and only might) be the superior fighter, but Durkon's spells tip the scales, no contest.


Gimli is easily the superior fighter. The problem is the magic. However, Gimli might have a handy save.



Gandalf the Grey vs V: Tough call. They have each achieved similar feats - V recently slew a devil that appears analogous to a Pit Fiend or Balor, and Gandalf slew a Balrog. Granted, Gandalf died in that fight too, but the only person to ever kill a Balrog and not die in the process was Tuor at the battle of Gondolin, so that's hardly a major strike against him. I suppose it depends on how limited Gandalf's power is. He is, like Sauron, a Maia; however he was never as powerful as Sauron, and his power is limited since he inhabits a true human form rather than one he created with his shape-shifting abilities. It's possible V would win if Gandalf's abilities are too limited, or possible Gandalf would overpower V if he had access to most of full abilities. Or even possible they would stalemate.


Gandalf was restricted from ever revealing his true powers. He was not in a true human form, for his body never truly aged. It was just a form he wore, over his true self.



Witch King vs Redcloak: Well, since Redcloak is a Goblin, the prophecy that the Witch King could not be killed by any man doesn't bother him, so that's a start. From there it depends on how badly the fear that the mere presence of a Ringwraith inspires afflicts Redcloak, and whether the Fell Beast or any of the other Ringwraiths are involved. If it's a 1-on-1 and Redcloak keeps his wits about him, or if the Fell Beast is involved and Redcloak can down it early via magic (or counter it with a summoned ally of his own), he has a solid shot; especially if he uses something like Flame Strike, since the Ringwraiths hate and fear fire (and water, but there aren't exactly many clerical water spells out there for him to use). In any other circumstance, he's toast.


Ok, this was what prompted me to reply to your post mainly. There seems to be confusion about the prophecy of Glorfindel. Almost as much confusion as what was in the books. The prophecy was misunderstood. It wasn't that he couldn't be killed by a Man, as in human, but that he couldn't be killed by a Male. More specifically, he was fated only to be slain by Eowyn. Thus Redcloak as both a Male and not Eowyn could not kill him.

[Grail]

Sauron - at the peak of his powers was been beaten up by an elf girl looking for her boyfriend: or more accurately, by elf girl's pet dog.

He gets chased out of Dol Guldor by the White Council, who average 5th level (Gandalf's highest level spell is Lightning Bolt, and he's the second most powerful wizard; Galadriel's highest level spell is Scrying, and she's the senior elf).

As pointed out, Sauron is scary because the heroes of the setting are very low level.

And he has a superb PR team that other villains should learn from!

To put the entire setting into perspective, Luthien puts Sauron's boss and entire court of Balrogs etc into a charmed sleep with her Bardic abilities, so it's possible that *Elan* is a match for Morgoth! (After all, pre-3rd ed means no Will Saves, and Morgoth is as 'pre' as you can get).


You people need to stop talking Tolkien, coz you don't know what you're on about. Seriously.

Huan was not a "pet dog". He was a freakin Ainur. Like Sauron himself. He was a gift to one of the Sons of Feanor, Celegorm I think by Orome himself, one of the Valar.

As to Luthien's sleep enchantment on Morgoth's court. I think you're misunderstanding. These aren't low level wannabes. They're beyond Epic. Luthien was the daughter of King Thingol and another Ainur, Melian. She had divine blood in her veins. Elan is to her as a gecko is to a T-Rex.

[whitelaughter]

So you would pit Aragorn against, say, the unit of 100 orcs the fellowship was fleeing when entering Moria?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
If Shlock ate Celia, could he claim the bounty on lawyers?
----------------------------------------------------------------

Roy vs Conan

Durkon vs Pope Julius II

V vs Ged (EarthSea)

Haley vs Robin Hood

Belkar vs Jack the Ripper(fighting over a prostitute, I'd imagine)

---------------------------------

Shinjo vs Commander Vimes

Miko vs Aldric Talvalin

O-chul vs Samson

Hinjo vs Carrot Ironfoundersson

Lien vs Orca

Thanh vs Chewbacca

-----------------------------------------

Xykon vs the brooms in "A Sorcerer's Apprentice".
Or against an Animated cat toy

Redcloak vs OneEye's sister in law - armed with a crop.

Tsukiko vs The White Witch

The MitD vs a Boggart from Harry Potter

[whitelaughter]

You people need to stop talking Tolkien,

then why are you quoting a post from over a month ago?

Grab a copy of 'Queen of the Demonweb Pits" and play through it. One of the better classic adventures, and you'll see *why* the statement "it's a god!" is interpreted by grognards as " easy xp".

[whitelaughter]

There seems to be confusion about the prophecy of Glorfindel. .
Yes, and that confusion is based on the false idea that Eowyn was anything more than a distraction in that fight. She didn't kill him - she didn't even hit him, and didn't have a weapon that could hurt him.

$%#@ people stealing Merry's kill.....

[Zevox]

Gimli is easily the superior fighter. The problem is the magic. However, Gimli might have a handy save.
Arguable - Gimli was fairly young for a Dwarf in Tolkien's world, while Durkon is at a fairly high level for a D&D character.

In any event, Gimli's saves would mean little. Durkon's magic tips the scales even if all he could use it for is healing and buffing (see Thor's Might, for instance).


Gandalf was restricted from ever revealing his true powers. He was not in a true human form, for his body never truly aged. It was just a form he wore, over his true self.
I'm quite certain I read just such a thing in Unfinished Tales, in the story that talked about the origins of the Istari. They were forced to use actual human bodies, taken from those slumbering on the isles of mist surrounding Aman. They had additional restrictions from revealing their abilities to mortals, true, but it seems likely that being stuck in actual human frames would restrict their powers outright.


Ok, this was what prompted me to reply to your post mainly. There seems to be confusion about the prophecy of Glorfindel. Almost as much confusion as what was in the books. The prophecy was misunderstood. It wasn't that he couldn't be killed by a Man, as in human, but that he couldn't be killed by a Male. More specifically, he was fated only to be slain by Eowyn. Thus Redcloak as both a Male and not Eowyn could not kill him.
Considering the story itself indicates that Merry was able to harm him because he was not human, unless Tolkien himself clarified it elsewhere (which I've never heard), it's pretty plain the term had a double meaning in the prophecy. In any event, Tolkien quite frequently used the term "Men" to refer to the human race - that was pretty common back then, actually - so it makes perfect sense.

And yes, in the stories themselves, only Eowyn specifically could actually kill him. But any crossover fight like this would be something well outside the fated events of Tolkien's world regardless.


Huan was not a "pet dog". He was a freakin Ainur.
Where do you get that idea? The Silmarillion indicates that he was a gift from Orome to Celegorm, and does indicate he is special, but there's nothing indicating he was an Ainur. It really doesn't make any sense for him to be one, actually. Why would he only be able to speak three times before his death in that case, for instance? If he were an Ainur, he should be able to create physical forms at will, just as the Valar and Maiar could, and there would be no reason he would be stuck as a hound, or even why he would be unable to speak whenever he pleased even as a hound. No, everything I've read indicates he's one hell of a special hound, but still a hound nonetheless.

Zevox

[Grail]

Yes, and that confusion is based on the false idea that Eowyn was anything more than a distraction in that fight. She didn't kill him - she didn't even hit him, and didn't have a weapon that could hurt him.

$%#@ people stealing Merry's kill.....

Yeah, the XP stealing skank, I mean what a ho. Damn Glorfindel. He should have said about the Witchking, "He won't be killed by anything taller than my crotch"

[Grail]

Considering the story itself indicates that Merry was able to harm him because he was not human, unless Tolkien himself clarified it elsewhere (which I've never heard), it's pretty plain the term had a double meaning in the prophecy. In any event, Tolkien quite frequently used the term "Men" to refer to the human race - that was pretty common back then, actually - so it makes perfect sense.

And yes, in the stories themselves, only Eowyn specifically could actually kill him. But any crossover fight like this would be something well outside the fated events of Tolkien's world regardless.


Harming him aside, Merry did not actually kill him. The prophecy was about who could kill him, not who could stab him in the back of his knee. Also, in the appendix of one of his books it goes on about it more, and the fact that he used Man is why there was confusion. If it was just human, than Glorfindel could have laid the smackdown on him.



Where do you get that idea? The Silmarillion indicates that he was a gift from Orome to Celegorm, and does indicate he is special, but there's nothing indicating he was an Ainur. It really doesn't make any sense for him to be one, actually. Why would he only be able to speak three times before his death in that case, for instance? If he were an Ainur, he should be able to create physical forms at will, just as the Valar and Maiar could, and there would be no reason he would be stuck as a hound, or even why he would be unable to speak whenever he pleased even as a hound. No, everything I've read indicates he's one hell of a special hound, but still a hound nonetheless.
Zevox

Because it states it somewhere. But Huan was an Ainur, lesser and probably lesser still, but still a Divine Creature.

[Assassin89]

Haley vs Robin Hood

Winner Haley: Robin Hood would be unwilling to harm a woman, meaning that Haley can attack without retribution.


Thanh vs Chewbacca
Winner Chewbacca: Never upset a wookie, unless you want your arms pulled out of their sockets


Xykon vs the brooms in "A Sorcerer's Apprentice".
Winner Xykon: The brooms are burned to cinders. The Brooms only multiply when cut in pieces

Tsukiko vs The White Witch
Winner Tsukiko: The White Witch becomes the Wight Witch. It would be difficult for the White Witch to hit a flying target.

The MitD vs a Boggart from Harry Potter
Winner MitD: Thinks of something edible and eats the Boggart

[Grail]

Gerald Tarrant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coldfire_Trilogy#Gerald_Tarrant) v :xykon:

Both are powerful, immortal undead sorcerers. Gerald Tarrant, "The Hunter" has survived massive injury, using his magic to keep him alive even though he was bound inside an inferno for over a weak. He is a masterful swordsman as well as a deadly spellslinger. Xykon on the other hand has more destructive spells available.

However, due to Tarrant's uncompromising toughness, I'd have to say that in the wash up Xykon would be destroyed and then Tarrant would need a nap to recuperate.

[xelliea]

Here's a decent one.

The entire OOTS VS The Vault Dweller, The Chosen One, and The Lone Wanderer.

i was playing fallout 3 when i saw this

it would depend on the vault dweller's equipment, if he had a fatman.........

[Kurald Galain]

Roy vs Conan
Conan. He's way more archetypical than Roy.


Durkon vs Pope Julius II
Whuh? Durkon surrenders in round one.


V vs Ged (EarthSea)
Ged, once more on account of archetypicality. See, Ged is on a very fundamental level more powerful than V, because whereas V's magic follows the rules, Ged's magic defines the rules.


Haley vs Robin Hood
Depends on the incarnation of Robin, really. Overall, he's not particularly known for his combat prowess.


Belkar vs Jack the Ripper(fighting over a prostitute, I'd imagine)
Okay, Belkar, no contest.


Shinjo vs Commander Vimes
Who? Shojo would probably win, as he's near Vetinari's level in terms of Xanatosity. Hinjo? My money is on Vimes.


O-chul vs Samson
The biblical dude? I think they would be good pals, actually. Barring that, O-chul cuts of Sammy's hair and proves that he's that much more badass.


Hinjo vs Carrot Ironfoundersson
Carrot is actually very scary if you think about it - has the lad ever lost a fight in any of the Discworld books? Plus he's got the Narrative behind him.


Lien vs Orca
Orca swallows Lien, no contest. We are talking about the big marine mammal, right?


Thanh vs Chewbacca
Sword vs. Blaster. Blaster wins, fatality!



Xykon vs the brooms in "A Sorcerer's Apprentice".
Xykon nukes the brooms, Mickey Mouse, and his master sorcerer. Then reanimates them and has them dance the polka.


Redcloak vs OneEye's sister in law - armed with a crop.
Whuh?


Tsukiko vs The White Witch
Which one, the lady of Narnia? In that case she wins, on grounds of archetypicality.


The MitD vs a Boggart from Harry Potter
Both run away in panic, simultaneously.

[Kurald Galain]

So you would pit Aragorn against, say, the unit of 100 orcs the fellowship was fleeing when entering Moria?
Tolkien orcs are absolutely not the same as the one-hit-die D&D critter.

Oh and dude? You may want to clarify your post. Wikipedia lists twelve fictional characters named Samson, four named Orca assuming you're not talking about the Roman praetor or the killer whale, and four different White Witches.

[Edanor]

i was playing fallout 3 when i saw this

it would depend on the vault dweller's equipment, if he had a fatman.........

Well this isn't entirely true.

Notice how in Fallout three you can blast projectiles out of the air? This renders the Fatman and Missile Launcher moot, as a magic missile or arrow will ensure no casualties from it. Lets assume that the game-breakers aren't allowed. V obviously doesn't have any epic spells. Also, assume that proper min-maxing has occured, as anybody worth their socks in FO3 can get 100 in all skills.

[DwarvenExodus]

Belkar vs all the hobbits

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0439.html :smalltongue:

[Assassin89]

Gilgamesh from Final Fantasy vs. O-chul
Winner Gilgamesh: What the people say about O-chul is not relevant to the fact that O-chul is out armed by a man who can make at least three attacks per round.

Gilgamesh from Final Fantasy vs. Julio Scoundrel
Winner Gilgamesh: Julio is #32 for a reason. Gilgamesh has high strength and dexterity scores, which could outclass the bonuses provided to a dashing swordsman.

[Kurald Galain]

Gilgamesh from Final Fantasy vs. O-chul
Winner Gilgamesh: What the people say about O-chul is not relevant to the fact that O-chul is out armed by a man who can make at least three attacks per round.
Chuck O-chul can make at least three attacks per round without arms!

[Assassin89]

Chuck O-chul can make at least three attacks per round without arms!

*Stabs illogical statement*
Everything in O-chul facts does not apply in this thread. Although O-chul has a high strength score, a single katana is outmatched by someone who is able to sextuple wield different swords.
*Stabs illogical statement again to make sure it is dead*

[Chirios]

Xykon VS Khellus from the second apocalypse trilogy in an all out magical brawl?

Khellus wins. Infinite magic plus the superhuman intelligence required to manipulate the Gnosis makes Xykon into skeletal dust in about 3 and a half seconds.

Xykon VS Bayaz from the First Law Trilogy in an all out magical brawl?

Harder. Bayaz is wiley, and a very skilled wizard, but his powers are weaker than Xykons. I'd have to edge it to Xykon. His magic is just a hell of a lot more powerful, and would probably overwhelm Bayaz's wards.

Xykon VS Gilgamesh Wulfenbach from Girl Genius?

[David Demola]

Ummm... no? Balefire burns someone out of existence, outside of time itself, so that even the Lord of the Grave cannot return them to life. It's arguable whether Xykon's soul would survive his body being balefired, but it's a moot point as being reduced to a phylactery counts as a defeat.

Xykon has mostly evocation spells, and D&D spellcasters, even sorcerers, are no match against WoT Channelers in raw power. Rand is able to weave shields against pretty much any of Xykon's direct damage attacks, while NOTHING is able to stop balefire, except maybe counterspell.

2 Words:

Magic.

Missile.

All the auto-hit cheese that a growing sorcerer needs

~Dave

[Kurald Galain]

*Stabs illogical statement*
In Soviet Russia, illogical statement stabs you!

[Winged One]

O-chul vs. Chuck Norris, both sans and with their respective "facts".

[Assassin89]

O-chul wins without facts because stopping a sword with your body is not a good idea.

Anyway...

Miko vs. Zoro from One Piece
Winner Zoro: Zoro is more strategic than Miko. Miko only slashes after one round of detect evil.

Celia vs. Tinkerbell of Peter Pan
Winner Celia: Celia might be forced to defend herself from blind fury and fry the pixie.

Nobuo Uematsu vs. Elan in composing music
Winner Nobuo Uematsu: Creator of Final Fantasy music would inspire more people than Elan.

Suggestions:

Samurai Jack vs. Hinjo

Nami from One Piece vs. Haley

Mr. Scruffy vs. Spark from Dominic Deegan

Gilgamesh from Final Fantasy vs. Bozzok