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Uin
2008-11-01, 05:42 PM
My friend's necromancer is on the path to achieving lichdom. Our group is level 11 and will rise to 12 when we next meet (I'm a Red Ruby Vindicator, which is needless to say, fun). What do you consider the best/balanced/least disruptive way of becoming a lich? Is the Template Class (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031212a) useful? I am well aware that he's going to lose caster levels relative to the rest of us.

Arbitrarity
2008-11-01, 06:03 PM
Template class is useful. Just stick levels of that on instead of wizard class levels for the next while. Makes it easier to keep track of XP, smooths out gaining LA, and makes power levels easily comparable. Consider him to be crafting his phylactery and binding his soul to it over time, gradually adding more and more until he finally binds his soul to it, and sheds his puny mortal shell. The crafting process is so intensive, he doesn't keep studying wizardry as normal :smallwink:

kbk
2008-11-01, 06:07 PM
Well first of all, I take it you're an evil party?


Probably engage in a multi-session quest to create your phylactery and get the proper sentient sacrifices to empower it. Get with your DM and come up with a decent story line.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-11-01, 08:53 PM
Play a Dread Necromancer. You get Lichdom for free at 20th without the need for XP or LA sacrifices. Otherwise, Lich isn't worth it.

FMArthur
2008-11-01, 08:56 PM
Play a Dread Necromancer. You get Lichdom for free at 20th without the need for XP or LA sacrifices. Otherwise, Lich isn't worth it.

"Our group is level 11 and will rise to 12 when we next meet"
"I am well aware that he's going to lose caster levels relative to the rest of us."

Cathaidan
2008-11-01, 09:28 PM
Tell him to suck it up and add the full template. I've played many variations on the same necromancer for a variety of games (usually asked to do so by the DM's or players of said games.) Each time the characters first goal is lichdom.

Yes, not leveling for a while sucks. Yes you are more powerful than the rest of the party for a while due to your LA.

However, if you really are playing a wizard (I usually go True Necro with my lich as it tends to fit the "over the top" personality that everyone likes him for) then you should be playing a relatively high intelligence character. As the rest of the party is gaining levels and you're stuck at 11th, its time to really start analyzing every decision that you make for maximum efficiency.

Note: This argument loses all merit if the campaign will end before you would gain enough XP to level again. If the campaign is only designed to go until 13th level, he needs to take the template class or else he will overpower the other PC's for the rest of the game. This never ends well.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-11-01, 09:43 PM
I stand by my statement. The Lich gains a quick bump in power and good defenses(see the Monk threads for the forum's opinion on the value of defenses) and in exchange loses 2 spell levels. Your save DCs are permanently reduced by 1, you lose 6 spells per day, and lose access to the only thing that matters to casters-spell levels. If he wants to be nigh-unkillable undead, go Necropolitan or similar. Lich isn't worth it.

Sinfire Titan
2008-11-01, 09:46 PM
Play a Dread Necromancer. You get Lichdom for free at 20th without the need for XP or LA sacrifices. Otherwise, Lich isn't worth it.
Dread Necromancer takes too long. Dragonwrought Dracolich Kobold can be done legally at 1st level. 3 books needed: Races of the Dragon, Player's Guide to Faerun, and Draconomicon.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-11-02, 01:54 AM
Dread Necromancer takes too long. Dragonwrought Dracolich Kobold can be done legally at 1st level. 3 books needed: Races of the Dragon, Player's Guide to Faerun, and Draconomicon.

What do you use from PGtF to do that?



Note that creating the Phylactery costs 120,000 gp, 4800 xp, and takes 120 days of uninterrupted work to complete. A character shouldn't be able to afford that until they're a few adventures/rewards into level 13, and even then it would take every bit of wealth they have. If you go by items not being able to cost more than half a character's projected wealth for a given level, it would be delayed until level 16. The XP cost is also fairly prohibitive, it takes nearly as much XP as casting a Wish. For that reason alone it's usually not worth it for a character to become a Lich by the standard means.

Dry Lich from Sandstorm is much easier to achieve through the Walker in the Waste PrC is a much more viable course for a PC. As Sinfire pointed out, becoming a Dracolich is much easier and costs less than half as much gold and no XP if you buy/commission the necessary items, or less than a fourth the overall cost if you create them yourself. Even becoming a Necropolitan (LM) is a more attractive choice, especially at an early level when the overall XP cost would be less than 4800, then spend your would-be Phylactery money to Spellstitch yourself (CA) with spell-like abilities that have a costly material component, such as Animate Dead, and get Quicken Spell-Like Ability for a few of them.

If he wants to become a Lich by the standard means, then I'll assume that the rest of the party has at least 120,000 gp worth of gear apiece. That means he'll be way behind on the power curve due to going naked while the rest of the party is way overgeared. Second, he's spending nearly half a level's worth of XP just in making the Phylactery. Finally, I doubt the rest of the party would be spending four months of game time sitting around while they wait for him to make it, they'll be out adventuring and getting even more loot, gear, and XP, putting him even further behind them in power. To top it all off, someone is sure to have heard about this no-very-powerful individual seeking to become a Lich, and 120K gp worth of magical phylactery components is a very tempting haul for any thief, and well worth the effort for even near-epic individuals to take it for themselves. I'd say that if he can manage to get past all of that and still wants the template, just give him the whole thing at once and let his ECL be above his XP while everyone else catches back up; he'll even be gaining less XP per encounter because of it, putting him even further behind the rest of them.

Uin
2008-11-02, 05:36 AM
I had forgotten about the Necropolitan, this seems like a nice cheap alternative that I'll run by our DM.

Sinfire Titan
2008-11-02, 09:48 AM
What do you use from PGtF to do that?

PGtF has a rule that allows you to play creatures with a LA higher than the ECL (without using Savage Progressions). Yout ake penalties to virtually every roll there is, but you get to play a LA +4 race at ECL 1st. Just one reason why I never play FR settings.